Looper (dir. Rian Johnson; Gordon-Levitt, Willis)

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Yeah....

So, explain to me how it's not lazy and deliberately confusing, because where I stand right now, I don't understand the praise

Joe killing old joe from old joe's timeline where the rainmaker exists doesn't make any sense because if it was a loop, cid wouldn't have the beef with loopers he does as he was saved by one, he would have never had the negative experience where the mob guy came to the house, etc, so why would he go all bonkers, because he's a bad kid? lazy. Or if you look at it the other way to make sense of it, does that mean this basically started an endless loop of that event happening? What.

The whole scene in the dinner where he says he's not going to take time to explain the timeline (two intersecting ones, perhaps?) because they could spend all day lining up straws really irritated me. Why don't you explain it, again lazy to me
 
H3xum said:
Yeah....

So, explain to me how it's not lazy and deliberately confusing, because where I stand right now, I don't understand the praise

Joe killing old joe from old joe's timeline where the rainmaker exists doesn't make any sense because if it was a loop, cid wouldn't have the beef with loopers he does as he was saved by one, he would have never had the negative experience where the mob guy came to the house, etc, so why would he go all bonkers, because he's a bad kid? lazy. Or if you look at it the other way to make sense of it, does that mean this basically started an endless loop of that event happening? What.

The whole scene in the dinner where he says he's not going to take time to explain the timeline (two intersecting ones, perhaps?) because they could spend all day lining up straws really irritated me. Why don't you explain it, again lazy to me
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Who says Cid has a beef with loopers? He's closing their loops because he's afraid of what they could do.
 
I've really grown fond of futuristic settings over the years. I actually use to hate it until a couple of years ago. I get a kick out of all the little easter eggs that the director throws in regarding tech and how we replace common everyday products with something else. Although the perpetual fuel system seemed far fetched and the phone seemed less modern than one from the present.
 
H3xum said:
Then take out the machines, don't control the machines and murder people in their 50s-60s. He clearly has an issue with loopers
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Technically he only issued the orders to get rid of all the loopers. Probably he just doesn't have any use for them since he already kills people with impunity, but doesn't want/need anyone else to be able to do the same.
 
SuperEpicMan said:
I thought it was just showing that young joe was beginning to loose his hair, to show sara that young joe and old joe were definitely the same person.
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Kind of redundant don't you think? Old Joe disappeared before her eyes when Young Joe shot himself, that should be infallible proof.
krazen said:
No.

You aren't the first to say this, but they aren't the same person...at least according to what Rian has said about the flick
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Of coure he would say that. Just like Blade Runner where I refuse to believe Deckard is a replicant despite Ridley saying he is I think they were hinting at Rainmaker possibly being Joe. I know I know how come they exist in the same timeline but when you're dealing with a flm regarding time travel a number shit can happen. For example maybe Young Joe was sent back without knowing????
 
CepPyBoy said:
Kind of redundant don't you think? Old Joe disappeared before her eyes when Young Joe shot himself, that should be infallible proof.
Of coure he would say that. Just like Blade Runner where I refuse to believe Deckard is a replicant despite Ridley saying he is I think they were hinting at Rainmaker possibly being Joe. I know I know how come they exist in the same timeline but when you're dealing with a flm regarding time travel a number shit can happen. For example maybe Young Joe was sent back without knowing????
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young Joe would have had to be sent back when he was at least 30 years old because time travel wasn't invented until then.
 
Mondriaan said:
Technically he only issued the orders to get rid of all the loopers. Probably he just doesn't have any use for them since he already kills people with impunity, but doesn't want/need anyone else to be able to do the same.
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Then this is an awful story because it boils down to some kid that just wants to be able to kill people better than anyone else? What's the point of the entire movie if old Joe going back and being killed by Joe in front of the mom still didnt make a difference in the kids life?
 
H3xum said:
Then this is an awful story because it boils down to some kid that just wants to be able to kill people better than anyone else? What's the point of the entire movie if old Joe going back and being killed by Joe in front of the mom still didnt make a difference in the kids life?
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I interpret it as seeing his aunt get killed in front of his eyes planted the seed that would eventually turn him into the Rainmaker in the very first timeline. It wasn't until Young Joe shows up at the farm and hangs out with the family that the kid begins to see Sarah as his real mom. She then raises him to be a good kid. But if he sees her killed in front of his eyes, that just reaffirms his anger.
 
JdFoX187 said:
I interpret it as seeing his aunt get killed in front of his eyes planted the seed that would eventually turn him into the Rainmaker in the very first timeline. It wasn't until Young Joe shows up at the farm and hangs out with the family that the kid begins to see Sarah as his real mom. She then raises him to be a good kid. But if he sees her killed in front of his eyes, that just reaffirms his anger.
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Yep. Here's how I saw it.

When his aunt died, he assured himself that she was his real mom and that anger inside him made him the Rainmaker. When Old Joe showed up and shot him, his real mom calmed him down, to which he utters: "mom", reassuring him that all hope is not lost. When Old Joe is reluctant in killing Cid even after all that happened, Young Joe saw that nothing will change in the future, and it'll actually become worse as this time Cid doesn't have himself to blame for his mom's death.
 
H3xum said:
Then this is an awful story because it boils down to some kid that just wants to be able to kill people better than anyone else? What's the point of the entire movie if old Joe going back and being killed by Joe in front of the mom still didnt make a difference in the kids life?
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The loopers were all going to be killed anyway since that's part of the contract.

The point of the movie is that Joe has found his own redemption and ended his loop. Who cares about Cid?
 
Yeah....

So, explain to me how it's not lazy and deliberately confusing, because where I stand right now, I don't understand the praise

Joe killing old joe from old joe's timeline where the rainmaker exists doesn't make any sense because if it was a loop, cid wouldn't have the beef with loopers he does as he was saved by one, he would have never had the negative experience where the mob guy came to the house, etc, so why would he go all bonkers, because he's a bad kid? lazy. Or if you look at it the other way to make sense of it, does that mean this basically started an endless loop of that event happening? What.

The whole scene in the dinner where he says he's not going to take time to explain the timeline (two intersecting ones, perhaps?) because they could spend all day lining up straws really irritated me. Why don't you explain it, again lazy to me
Click to expand...
time travel is fucked up.
the loops overlap. so while old joe did kill his loop from his perception, the rainmaker was still created because he was going to go kill sara. it's iterative determinism.
once again, this is just my own explanation and it seems to make plenty of sense in the context of the film.
oh, and if he just
took out the machines he would be losing an asset, what if he wanted the machines later on? the loops were going to be closed anyway, so why not get that out of the way while unifying world crime? that isn't at all a plot hole. that's a path that the character could have taken but it doesn't make any more or less sense than closing loops.
CepPyBoy said:
I think we are dealing with a multiverse as well now...
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here's the thing:
you're saying "oh but this stuff is technically possible so I see it as true!" And I guess that's one way to read things, but there is nothing in the film that suggests Cid and Joe are the same person. It entirely does not make sense. It's equivalent to something like theorizing "I think Han Solo was a flesh puppet filled with nanobots who controlled the dummy through a complex series of levers!" sure, maybe possible in star wars. doesn't mean it holds much water as an interpretation.
 
Just saw it with 2 of my friends. Both of which were "meh" on it. (I need to find new friends)

It was really good; the time travel stuff was meant to be glossed over and used more as a way of setting up these characters in their situation.
 
so if young joe kills himself, old joe dies... Doesn't kill kids mom. Doesn't become rainmaker... So he doesn't go on a loop closing spree which kills old joes wife.... So he doesn't go back in time and doesn't start hunting down rainmaker... Technically by killing himself, if the kids moms death by his hands was the cause of the kids downfall... Joe would likely be alive somewhere else. But then how would it correct the convergence at the farm? If it takes joe/old joe to figure out who is mother is then likely because of the paradox the kid becomes the rainmaker anyways

Fuck my head hurts
 
Movie hits the farm and completely stalls out. Liked the dynamic between JGL and Willis but not enough to feel satisfied by how it plays out.
 
Looper-Timeline-Wired.jpg


Found it on Slash Film, along with this quote:

For me it’s a trope of time travel movies and there’s a slight amount of magic logic that you have to apply in order for a story like this to make sense.
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I tend to not over-think movies, and Looper is probably one of the few where I've given it some extra thought. In the end, I'm fine with its plot holes considering I enjoyed it a lot.
 
Just watched this, really enjoyed it. This and Cabin in the Woods are my two favourite movies that I have seen in theatre this year (TDKR was a disappointment even though it was my most anticipated movie), hopefully Cloud Atlus and Skyfall both align with my expectations. :)
The only part I felt a bit much was the slight overdoing of the emotional moments with the kid, maybe a bit too much too fast, but that did not stop me from enjoying the movie.

PS: I am a sucker for kids crying in movies, gets me a bit almost every time. ;p
 
Ok, I have to see it again to verify this, but is it me or
everytime they show a map (even on the wall in the boss office) it's almost just a big white space with barely any information, and just a red cross to pinpoint the target
?
 
okdakor said:
Ok, I have to see it again to verify this, but is it me or
everytime they show a map (even on the wall in the boss office) it's almost just a big white space with barely any information, and just a red cross to pinpoint the target
?
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Apple still runs things in the future.
 
Rinoa said:
Someone gotta explain the maps thing. That's all I wanna know!
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I'm not even sure about the maps
being strangely empty... But I remember wondering about the fact that Joe seems to be able to locate coordinates without thinking too much

But maybe EviLore is right and it's just a sign that Apple won't debug Plans in the future
 
I'm assuming the map showed him more detail than what we were able to see. Literally, the address was printed in small fonts. Haha.

Zeliard said:
Dunno. For GAF I'm using the Pro Dark skin and the user highlighter.
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This would've been better than just saying "Chrome". I'm neither using the Pro Dark skin, or user highlighter, and it's not something everyone either knows or is currently using. Come on, dude.
 
Just got back from the movie. I have to say I was very impressed. I got a big Terminator 2 vibe from a number of scenes (but I think I'm just seeing T2 in everything now after watching it so many times this year).

There were only a couple of times in the movie where I was just like "wait that doesn't make sense..." because the story and characters managed to keep me engaged and not paying attention to the logistics.

But when I got home and thought for just a moment about the movie, it just completely collapsed. There aren't just plot holes, there are vast plot chasms. Not even just in the timeline, but in the entire premise of the loopers themselves.

The strength of the movie is that the story is so good and well-told that you can just accept those things and watch. "Just repeat to yourself, 'it's just a show, I should really just relax'" and all that.

Still, like Prometheus, I feel like the script of the film either didn't have enough thought behind it, or had too much thought behind it, and so I can't give it my fullest recommendation.
 
Really enjoyed it. I thought the setting was pretty cool. I didn't go into it with any expectations so it was impossible for me to be disappointed by the writing. It is what it is. JGL is great and Bruce Willis is also great. I thought it was plainly obvious who the Rainmaker was the second he first interacted with JGL. I was slightly disappointed with the origin of the Rainmaker's power. I was hoping it would be something a little more creative than
he's an uber telekinetic
.
 
Quick said:
This would've been better than just saying "Chrome". I'm neither using the Pro Dark skin, or user highlighter, and it's not something everyone either knows or is currently using. Come on, dude.
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Simmer down. I figured it was a product of the browser, and not plugins which seemed to have nothing to do with allowing spoiler text to be moused over.
 
RealDeadOne said:
Just got back from the movie. I have to say I was very impressed. I got a big Terminator 2 vibe from a number of scenes (but I think I'm just seeing T2 in everything now after watching it so many times this year).
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Nah. I got strong terminator vibes as well, and the same for like... at least five other movies along the way. Obviously Die Hard, Matrix, the Omen, magneto and jean grey, 12 monkeys etc.

I like how it tells me to forget logic in the plot three times in the movie and I like that it has a very particular sense of humour, which is the modt unique thing the film has. Having said that, I don't think it's very ambitious and there isn't a really strong scene that stands out. I don't really connect with the characters either, my main drive watching the movie was to see how the loop is closed. still, can't say I didn't enjoy it.

Really thought they missed a bit with the rainmaker reveal though. You always know it can't be the other kids with JGL just sitting there, robbed it of a lot of tension I thought. You're just waiting for Bruce Willis to get there.
 
What are the plot holes you guys found?

The only thing I can think of is the premonition that Joe has of old Joe killing Sara and being the catalyst for Sid becoming the Rainmaker, which doesn't make any sense because this shouldn't have ever happened before, in any timeline.

Actually, thats not really a plot hole. It's just poor logic from Joe.
 
Igo said:
What are the plot holes you guys found?

The only thing I can think of is the premonition that Joe has of old Joe killing Sara and being the catalyst for Sid becoming the Rainmaker, which doesn't make any sense because this shouldn't have ever happened before, in any timeline.

Actually, thats not really a plot hole. It's just poor logic from Joe.
Click to expand...

I don't think young joe saw him as thee catalyst but a potential catalyst. The most obvious plot hole I could think of is joes wife just getting shot casually in the future. Maybe certain kinds of people have more traceable murderers. I dunno. It was also dumb how they didn't get loopers to close each others loops.

Oh and I don't get why they didn't just kill young Seth to make old Seth poof away.

looper full of bloopers but the story is awesome anyway.
 
So I thought it was pretty good. Some very minor plot issues. The kid actor was amazing.

Bruce fucking Willis actoring! Has he been getting lessons? Or is it just that he finally has a good script? I was actually moved in one of his big scenes. MOVED. BY BRUCE FUCKING WILLIS.

Anyhoo, the time-travel alt-realities stuff was handled and explained (IMO) really well by the script. There was an initial moment of confusion when we jumped back to the "original" timeline but that passed pretty quickly.

As Leshita said, this is up there with Cabin in the Woods for movies of the year. Both well-written and reasonably intelligent stories.
 
so that was exactly the kind of tryhard post-graduate wank i've come to expect from rian johnson. too full of gaping holes, half baked livejournal fodder and ridiculous contrivances to really bother analysing in depth. that's 0/3 for him so far.

production design was great though.
 
-COOLIO- said:
I don't think young joe saw him as thee catalyst but a potential catalyst. The most obvious plot hole I could think of is joes wife just getting shot casually in the future. Maybe certain kinds of people have more traceable murderers. I dunno. It was also dumb how they didn't get loopers to close each others loops.

looper full of bloopers but the story is awesome anyway.
Click to expand...

That only happened because they were startled. It wasn't something that they planned on.
 
Igo said:
What are the plot holes you guys found?

The only thing I can think of is the premonition that Joe has of old Joe killing Sara and being the catalyst for Sid becoming the Rainmaker, which doesn't make any sense because this shouldn't have ever happened before, in any timeline.

Actually, thats not really a plot hole. It's just poor logic from Joe.
Click to expand...

Joe's wife being murdered and her house just burned down. Why didn't they shoot Joe right then and there, then, and leave his corpse with her? They were already in shit for killing the wife.

Why did the Loopers have to be the ones to kill their future selves? Doesn't that just make it much more likely there will be an incident?

Why didn't the future-mob kill the people by slitting their throat or something and then send their corpses back? If it's an issue of the machines in their body telling the cops when and where they were killed, couldn't these machines just as well tell when someone just disappears?

The timeline is impossible.

The future person changing based on things being done to the past person makes no sense, and conflicts with the way we're told the timeline works that allows the Rainmaker to always exist and Joe to be sent back. The movie bounces back and forth between predetermination in one single timeline, predetermination across several timelines, a single alterable timeline that affects the future, and multiple timelines that can each be changed independently of each other.
 
EviLore said:
Movie hits the farm and completely stalls out. Liked the dynamic between JGL and Willis but not enough to feel satisfied by how it plays out.
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i only really felt the dynamic for the diner scene, which unsurprisingly is head and tails above every other scene in the film.

i didn't want a buddy comedy, but their interaction for the rest of the film was on the level of a zany cloning/twin flick where they deliberately avoid having complex interaction because it's a bitch to shoot and composite.
 
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