Looper (dir. Rian Johnson; Gordon-Levitt, Willis)

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Yep, exactly. The world-building in this movie seems kind of amateurish exactly for this reason.

For example, why are metal bars the preferred currency for Loopers and why are they strapped on the back of the victims? For the sole reason so that in the movie Bruce Willis would have a convenient way to block JGL's bullets by turning around.

Why is there telekinesis in this movie? For the sole reason so that
Cid
would have some sort of generic superpower to become a vague supervillain in the future. And so the way they introduce this concept in the movie is they kind of briefly mention it as an aside at the very beginning ("Oh, we have telekinesis now by the way"), and then don't bring it up again until near the end when
Cid
does his thing.

They didn't want to deal with the intricacies of time travel, so they completely brush it off, even though it was marketed as the core of the movie. They even put in a line in the movie about how they don't really wanna talk about it.

In contrast, look at Inception which is a much stronger movie. The main concept of that movie is "dream layering", and EVERY single idea introduced in the movie is related to that. The entire movie is focused on that. For example: totems, "enemies" as a defense mechanism, limbo, kicks and the sensation of falling while sleeping, confusing dreams with reality, syncing with music, passage of time being longer in each layer, etc. They're all related concepts. There's no random "oh by the way, some people also have ice powers."


I agree with some of your points, but the use of silver and gold can readily be explained by economic collapse. The idea of fiat currency relies on the full faith of the people in its government, and it was self evident that the government did not have that.

Second, I applaud the movie's decision not to deal with the "intricacies" of time travel. I do not mean they shouldn't have explored the consequences of time travel -- that's what I just endorsed in the posts above this -- just that this movie correctly avoided lengthy expositions of the technical aspects of time travel, because time travel wouldn't actually work and very quickly folds on itself if examined with serious intellectual rigor.

It's a bit like the Force in Star Wars; if we're simply asked to accept that this force exists, most people can accept that as a suspension of disbelief. However, once George Lucas insisted on explaining the Force in more intricate detail -- explaining how "midichlorians" cause the Force -- the suspension was broken for many people and the mysterious power known as the Force seemed sillier than it would have it Lucas had simply left it as it was.

Again, I obviously had problems with the movie and agree with some of your criticisms, but in these two cases I think your criticisms are unfair.
 
One thing I didn't get about the movie was why didn't
the kid just use time travel to murder everyone "at once" (as the movie tells us) rather than some contrived Telekinetic powers to become the "rainmaker." That just seemed like the logical extension of the movie at that point, and would have made the slowed pace of the second half work better since the looper would be explaining time travel and all that shit. Like time travel was created because the looper came back, creating an infinite loop or something.
I feel like that'd be slightly more compelling than what we got. Anything to do with time travel, really.
 
I didn't mind the
tk stuff getting To the forefront at the end. In the beginning it was referenced as a silly ability, and there was a good aha moment for the audience when it's revealed the rainmaker is super tk guy.

I also liked that joe as
fatherly figure could have disrupted the time line, and made the rain maker good. This was believable enough to make the audience want to side with young joe.

Concept overall was very cool. Why people were chosen to
close their own loop is beyond me, and was just there to get the plot in motion. Young rain maker is shown as really smart. So why not have random people close the loops to avoid any possible problems

3 things though

They make a big deal on
not wanting to kill people in the future, but then proceed to kill old joes wife in the future. Since the whole movies concept is based on the fact they can't commit murder in that timeline, I just didn't get this at all, and it took me out the movie for a bit. If they can successfully dispose of her body, why not do the same for the loopers? In fact, why not kill them in the future and send back the body

Clearly old joe shouldn't have
disappeared when young joe died. If that were to happen why didn't they just kill the first kid when he failed to close the loop. Again, major plot lines of the movie was based on this so I can't believe it was allowed to happen without some satisfying ripple through time for the audience. Some clear consequence of why you don't want to do this

And the ending simply was not satisfying. Entire theater was waiting for one more scene and they never got it. Reminded me of Blair witch cut to credits with the audience getting up thinking fuck you to the screen. I also didn't understand the
relevance of the long camera shot on young joes head and then the kids hid. Looked like they were trying to imply some kind of connection but it happened too fast for me to understand
 
Concept overall was very cool. Why people were chosen to
close their own loop is beyond me, and was just there to get the plot in motion. Young rain maker is shown as really smart. So why not have random people close the loops to avoid any possible problems

3 things though

They make a big deal on
not wanting to kill people in the future, but then proceed to kill old joes wife in the future. Since the whole movies concept is based on the fact they can't commit murder in that timeline, I just didn't get this at all, and it took me out the movie for a bit. If they can successfully dispose of her body, why not do the same for the loopers? In fact, why not kill them in the future and send back the body

Clearly old joe shouldn't have
disappeared when young joe died. If that were to happen why didn't they just kill the first kid when he failed to close the loop. Again, major plot lines of the movie was based on this so I can't believe it was allowed to happen without some satisfying ripple through time for the audience. Some clear consequence of why you don't want to do this

And the ending simply was not satisfying. Entire theater was waiting for one more scene and they never got it. Reminded me of Blair witch cut to credits with the audience getting up thinking fuck you to the screen. I also didn't understand the
relevance of the long camera shot on young joes head and then the kids hid. Looked like they were trying to imply some kind of connection but it happened too fast for me to understand
-People are chosen to close their own loops because everyone is terrified of time travel and they don't know what kind of ramifications experimenting with it could have. they want to keep loops as tight as possible. involving more people would complicated it. also, imagine having to spend 30 years with a friend who will inevitably kill you.
-they can't successfully dispose of old joe's wife's body. they didn't go into that house looking to shoot her. a henchman fucked up and probably died for screwing up so badly.
-why didn't they kill young joe to close the loop in the first place? they explain this, they're worried completely removing somebody from the timeline will too drastically change the course of the future. that's why they only brutally injure seth's character to get old seth's attention. oh, and because young joe was running away constantly and preventing them from capturing him.
-the relevance of the final shot is that young joe's life had been defined by the pain of the loss of his mother, in his final moments he ensured a different person wouldn't have to feel that pain.
 
I also didn't understand the
relevance of the long camera shot on young joes head and then the kids hid. Looked like they were trying to imply some kind of connection but it happened too fast for me to understand

Been some time since I've seen it now, so I can't remember the exact shot you're talking about, but:
The movie was generally trying to make a connection between Joe and Cid and illustrate the transformative power of love in a person's development. Young Joe didn't really have that, and Old Joe spent time trying to explain how love could "save" or "change" a person dramatically. Similarly, Cid is like Young Joe at the crossroads... his mom could die like his and he could be set adrift, "like so many young men with no idea what to do" to paraphrase Cid's mom at some point in the story. Or, Cid's mom could live, and Cid could grow up with a loving, caring force around him that would transform his future. Joe's mom not being there led to his current life. Contrast the "good" transformation Joe goes through with his wife, versus the "false" transformation that he goes through with Jeff Daniels' character. Jeff Daniels claims to have saved him and changed his life but ultimately it's hollow, it's just something to do for somebody with no sense of purpose.

Ultimately Cid seems powerful because of his TK ability but the ultimate power lies in how a person's love can transform you entirely. And yeah, I pretty much put that in the most cheesy wording possible. :P
 
So if Joe never arrived at the farm,
Sara wouldn't have raised Cid
well enough to not have him become the rainmaker? If the Joes thing never happened, their lives would have been pretty swell on that peaceful farm would it not?

The movie states EXPLICITLY more than once that the scene on the field at the end with
Cid/Sara/Joe/OldJoe
is the exact incident everyone in the future has been referencing about the "event with
Cid's
mom that made him become the Rainmaker". This is explicitly made clear. There isn't any room for theorizing. You guys are trying to retcon what the movie says because otherwise the movie doesn't make any sense.

Which is the point: the movie doesn't make any sense. Every concept in the movie is messy because the filmmakers didn't take the time to think any of them through.

When does the movie explicitly state that? You have young Joe's theory that the event will cause a loop and you have some vague details/rumors about
the rainmaker's origins
. Those details can easily fit in with the events that happened before Joe gets to the farm i.e.
Cid seeing the woman he thought was his mother die. We also see that Sara and Cid have a very troubled relationship. Cid only vows to protect Sara after he begins talking with Joe. If young Joe never goes to the farm, it is reasonable enough to assume their relationship doesn't grow positively.
I feel like you either misheard/interpreted some dialog or are willfully ignoring things to prove your "this makes not sense" perspective.
 
Just saw Loopers. A great movie. What I really appreciate about it was it had a great story that flowed just right. No over done special effects. No outragious gimmick. Just a really good story. This is what's missing in movies today IMO. Almost made a thread about this. But, I'll just leave it here. So glad that we had at least 2 good movies this summer/fall.
 
Saw it earlier today and liked it except for
Cid
. Not amazing, but good.

JGL's makeup/prosthetics were distracting, though. Probably only because I know what he looks like.
 
People have to realize that time travel isn't well understood by the people at that time. People can't get back to the future, they can just go to the past, and small actions may have big consequences. That's why they outlawed time travel. It freaked them out.
Why do they close the loop by killing the older version? Because it's safer! Young Joe kills himself because it's the only way, and he doesn't give a fuck about that causing a huge change in the future (in fact, he wants it)
. A lot of things in the movie may be explained by this fear that the people have, but the movie doesn't explicitly state that after every single event. Because the movie isn't about time travel!!!

I find it awesome to think that there was a timeline without Loopers. Think about it, before Abe comes to the past and institutes the Looper organization, there was a timeline in which there were no effects of time travels. The original timeline. Every time someone goes to the past and isn't immediately killed a new timeline is created and the future changes a bit. That's a pretty awesome concept. I sure hope that Rian Johnson creates more movies in this world...
 
The same movie you did. Didn't need a lot CGI to tell a good story.

This movie is *loaded* with CG, there is tons and tons of it. I'm really not sure what movie you were watching. And Rian Johnson's style of filmmaking is signposted by visual and narrative high-concept gimmickry.
 
Compared to Promethus and The Avengers, where almost every set is actors on a blue screen, it wasn't. They could've used more futuristic cars, better time travel effects, more futuristic weapons, but they didn't. They didn't need to. The story was excellent and flowed very well.
 
Spoilers below, disregard the entire review if you've yet to watch the film.

I finally got around to watching the film last night, alongside Argo, and my opinions of the film have changed very little from what I thought they would be after having read the script.

I loved the quote within the film regarding time travel, and how Old Joe could explain it to Young Joe, but at the end of the day it'd still be overly confusing and absolutely useless to what matters. It's absolutely true, far too often these days, 'high concept' films over do it with exposition, and the film comes off more like an instruction manual than a fluid narrative. I was fucking thrilled when Old Joe uttered those words, and thought to myself, "Finally, somebody who fucking gets it!" Unfortunately; Old Joe goes on to describe the memory aspect of time travel, his life story from that point, how he was saved and what he planned to do in the near future. Attention Rian Johnson. I don't want you to tell me how the movie is going to unfold, or execute character depth, through freaking dialog. I want you to show me, visually, and embed it within the narrative in such a way where it's not overly apparent. Not only is this done in this respective scene, but the movie starts off in such a way, with a ridiculous voice over monologue that once again explains the mechanics of the narrative that Johnson should be showing us. Maybe I'd let the beginning of the film slide if this movie were at all indicative of Film Noir, but it's not in the least, and as a result, I was completely taken out of the experience.

I actually enjoyed the first 30-40 minutes of this film. While the idea of time traveling being exploitable by future syndicates is laughable at best, as is the idea that they'd use time travel to kill (and not to enrich themselves), I understand the fact that time travel requires one to do away with such holes and simply take everything stride for stride. And so I did. And was rewarded with an initial 30-40 minutes that had a fresh concept and was relatively well paced. Unfortunately, this is probably the height of my enjoyment considering the premise and tone is completely abandoned, and the film basically makes a sudden turn towards what comes off as a completely different film.

The entire TK aspect of the film should not have been present within the narrative. It's almost like he watched 12 Monkeys and Scanners, decided he wanted to make a movie in the vein of both, and is forced with a choice between the two but ultimately decides to hamfists both into a single narrative. I honestly don't understand the point other than the fact that these scenes will look cool on the silver screen, which is a characteristic that is honestly littered through out the narrative (I'll get back to that later). Honestly, what is the point of the TK element? It's narratively justified in the sense that the kid is supposed to become some Magneto-esque crime lord in the future, but the exact same scenario, ie. the kid is wronged by Old Joe and lashes out by taking revenge in the future, is possible without the kid being some supernatural freak. You take away the powers and absolutely NOTHING changes, the only difference being the fact that you maintain the integrity of the initial premise and don't succumb to some awful screenwriting. And the decision to completely bring the narrative to a standstill by holing our protagonist within the farm was so misguided. The plot up until that point was relatively brisk, and decently paced, and that is completely destroyed when they decide to bring it to a halt for damn near an hour.

This is an aspect I'm starting to see more and more from directors not typically known to create action films, but then decide to tackle that particular aspect of cinema, and that's the fact that they can't direct action scenes worth a shit. The action within this film was incredibly uninspired, overtly straight forward and simply forgettable. I realize that this isn't an action film primarily, but there's not denying the fact that it's presence within the film is significant, and if that's the case, then damnit, you better do it right. I personally found all of the action to be relatively uninspired, with exception to the young boy's Phoenix-esque outbursts (I never thought I'd see an idea/scene stolen from X-Men 3, but I suppose I was wrong) which were handeled relatively well, but one scene in particular at the tail end of the first act emcompasses perfectly exactly what I'm talking about. The scene I'm referencing too is the retreading of Old Joe's ending of the loop, following the potential flash forward. What in the fuck was that? The zoomed out, unedited nature of the scene, while interesting in a post-Bourne world, did not work at all here and simply reinforced the fact that Bruce Willis is old as shit. It looked ridiculously sluggish and uninteresting, and while this is obviously the worst of the worst as far as the film is concerned, the other action scenes weren't all that much better.

This is more a commentary on science fiction films, particurally those that take place within the near future, than it is Looper, but can filmmakers get a bit more creative with their representations of the future? If I see another future that is simply post apocalyptic in nature, with a heightened poverty issue, and giant television screens running narrative related ADs and fucking hover vehicles everywhere... I'm going to scream. I don't know who started this trend, probably Ridley Scott with Blade Runner, but stop harping back to the same old source materials for inspiration and come up with something new. Your film will benefit from it. Oh, and why do future syndicate personel look like Hasidic Jews? Those henchmen looked absolutely awful in those outfits.

I also wasn't a fan of Johnson using firearms as a type of inter-syndicate hierarchy, ie. loopers at the bottom of the totem pole with blunderbuss' that are obviously limited in range... gatmen a tad bit higher up with handguns... etc. I suppose the idea sounds cool in theory, but in practice it came off as a lame attempt to film some scenes that visually looked cool and possibly as a means of suspense in the future due to the impracticality and unreliability of a blunderbuss. It's simply stupid, and doesn't really make sense considering the fact that looping is supposedly an incredibly important practice for these people, so you'd think they'd best equip their people to handle whatever is thrown at them. And equiping everyone with modern handguns, or weapons representative of the future (I like how everything is futuristic except the firearms, although I suppose they do show off a futuristic stun gun), would have spared us from that godawful showdown between Kid Blue and his motor bike, and Young Joe and his blunderbuss. Yet another example of the awful action.

The kid's dialog was also an issue, and touches on something I've noticed within all of Johnson's films, and that's his overly styalized dialog and inability to differentiate between character's dialog. I'm not the biggest fan of the "Overly Mature Child" trope in film, and while there are certainly child geniuses out in real life, the way it was handled within Looper was downright ridiculous at times. I'm not quite sure how to explain it, but I can almost hear the screenwriter speaking to me through every character, instead of being completely immersed and lost within the story. As a result, they lack individuality and all sort of just blend together, which is most noticeable within Cid considering his dialog combined with his performance make him come off as some adult midget, and not a small child. Not a huge issue by any means, but definitely something that bothered me a bit.

The ending was absolutely awful, and not in line with JGL's character overall personality over the course of the film. His character is an immoral hired hand, and incredibly selfish, evident by the fact that he acts in his own self interest (uttered by his own lips) for 99% of the film. We see this when he is given the opportunity to sacrifice some of his own self earnings to spare his friend, but he chooses self preservation and decides to do otherwise. He obviously doesn't change considering that his supposedly 'saved' self 30 years from now, is willing to kill three 10-year old children to effectively fix his own future. Yes, his recently slain wife is an innocent bystander, but so are 2 of the 3 children. So here we have a character who is the very opposite of selfless, and what does he do in the final minutes? He kills himself. Now, I'm aware of the fact that people can change, and I'll even concede that they can do so over the course of the day. But that wide of a swing? To kill ones self is the ultimate sacrifice, and I'm sorry, but his character doing so after only a day of characterization is complete and utter bullshit. Have him blow off some fingers, or even a hand, but don't insult me with some morbid bullshit that is not narratively reinforced.

And I didn't know where else to put it, but coincidences for the sake of the movie were far to frequent within the film. For example, one of the 3 possible Rainmaker children just happened to be the child of someone he knows. The chances of this actually being a legitimate scenario are like one in a million, and there's absolutely no reason to do this other than a cheap means of adding character depth, demanding sympathy for a character.

P.S. Do away with the Bruce Willis makeup on JGL, it's unneeded. And the attempt at trying to blend between JGL and Bruce Willis within the flash forward was SO fucking bad.

It's basically style over substance in the worst way possible (with style being fumbled away in the process), with a tail end that is much too different from the film's initial half. I actually enjoyed most of the performances, and the misc-en-scene was solid (some of the camera work was amateurish), but I thought the screenplay hampered what could have been a great film if handled correctly.

All in all, I'd probably give it 2 1/2 stars out of four, or basically a flawed film that is worth a watch, but nothing more.
 
When does the movie explicitly state that? You have young Joe's theory that the event will cause a loop and you have some vague details/rumors about
the rainmaker's origins
. Those details can easily fit in with the events that happened before Joe gets to the farm i.e.
Cid seeing the woman he thought was his mother die. We also see that Sara and Cid have a very troubled relationship. Cid only vows to protect Sara after he begins talking with Joe. If young Joe never goes to the farm, it is reasonable enough to assume their relationship doesn't grow positively.
I feel like you either misheard/interpreted some dialog or are willfully ignoring things to prove your "this makes not sense" perspective.

How about a spoiler interview from the director himself?

http://youtu.be/wA2Y6WUqaY8?hd=1&t=1m (1:00 - 3:34)

Writeup:
http://www.slashfilm.com/ten-mysteries-in-looper-explained-by-director-rian-johnson/
http://www.slashfilm.com/film-video...-and-director-of-looper-talks-major-spoilers/

2. The film surmises Old Joe killing Sarah eventually made Cid become the Rainmaker. But Old Joe can’t become Old Joe without first being killed and letting Young Joe grow up to meet his wife. In that timeline though, Cid would grow up normal because Sarah wasn’t killed by Joe. How does that all work? How does the Rainmaker exist in a timeline where Old Joe didn’t kill his mom?

Unfortunately, this is the chicken and the egg explanation. There is no answer. One thing is dependent on the other but couldn’t have happened if the other didn’t. I’ll let Johnson take the lead here.

“That’s the Terminator question. If it’s important to you to really justify that beyond ‘It makes sense in a story type way,’ you’ll have to get into multiple time lines existing in neverending loops of logic. You can shoehorn it into making sense,” he said. “For me it’s a trope of time travel movies and there’s a slight amount of magic logic that you have to apply in order for a story like this to make sense.”

He does, however, point to the mention of the Rainmaker having a fake jaw in the future, then being shot in the present, as one particular connection. “That specific thing must have already happened, but he’s still in the timeline where that has yet to happen. Although, in my mind, what happens is cause his memory is shifting to accommodate, that’s one of the things that’s changed in his memory.” I guess we’ll never know for sure but my guess is that this loop has happened lots and times, we’re just seeing the final one.

Notice how neither the interviewer nor the director even entertain the possibility that something different happened in the "original timeline."

The entire movie hits you over the head that the scene you're seeing at the end is EXACTLY what leads to Cid becoming the Rainmaker, not some other random off-screen event you never see from another timeline.


The "rumors" are very specific: Cid witnesses his mom being killed by someone, part of his jaw gets shot up, and he wears a mask or has a fake jaw for that reason.

At the end, young Joe has a moment of clarity that this is the exact moment from the rumors, and he has an opportunity to change it, and does. Now, Cid does not become the Rainmaker.

Because the chicken and egg scenario doesn't make sense (if you try to make sense of it), there are retconists who try to explain it by making up theories and scenarios that aren't supported by or hinted at the movie itself. In fact the movie goes through great lengths to explain exactly what happens, and you still don't get it.
 
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How about a spoiler interview from the director himself?

http://youtu.be/wA2Y6WUqaY8?hd=1&t=1m (1:00 - 3:34)

Writeup:
http://www.slashfilm.com/ten-mysteries-in-looper-explained-by-director-rian-johnson/
http://www.slashfilm.com/film-video...-and-director-of-looper-talks-major-spoilers/



Notice how neither the interviewer nor the director even entertain the possibility that something different happened in the "original timeline."

The entire movie hits you over the head that the scene you're seeing at the end is EXACTLY what leads to Cid becoming the Rainmaker, not some other random off-screen event you never see from another timeline.


The "rumors" are very specific: Cid witnesses his mom being killed by someone, part of his jaw gets shot up, and he wears a mask or has a fake jaw for that reason.

At the end, young Joe has a moment of clarity that this is the exact moment from the rumors, and he has an opportunity to change it, and does. Now, Cid does not become the Rainmaker.

Because the chicken and egg scenario doesn't make sense (if you try to make sense of it), there are retconists who try to explain it by making up theories and scenarios that aren't supported by or hinted at the movie itself. In fact the movie goes through great lengths to explain exactly what happens, and you still don't get it.

the kid already thought he saw his mom die and the bullet wound was hardly severe. And just because the director doesn't have an answer doesn't mean there isn't one. I fail to see how I "don't get it" considering everything I said works quite well in the context of the movie and your version uses the same evidence but doesn't make as much sense in the context of the movie.

quite simply, there is no conceivable way either Joe had an impact on Cid in the initial timeline. We see the flashes forward, Cid doesn't meet either Joe until Old joe throws off the loop.
 
the kid already thought he saw his mom die and the bullet wound was hardly severe. And just because the director doesn't have an answer doesn't mean there isn't one. I fail to see how I "don't get it" considering everything I said works quite well in the context of the movie and your version uses the same evidence but doesn't make as much sense in the context of the movie.

quite simply, there is no conceivable way either Joe had an impact on Cid in the initial timeline. We see the flashes forward, Cid doesn't meet either Joe until Old joe throws off the loop.

That's an issue considering that the director penned the screenplay as well. If your audience has to come up with shit to fill in the gaps left by your screenplay, then that is some damned horrible screenwriting on his part.
 
How about a spoiler interview from the director himself?

http://youtu.be/wA2Y6WUqaY8?hd=1&t=1m (1:00 - 3:34)

Writeup:
http://www.slashfilm.com/ten-mysteries-in-looper-explained-by-director-rian-johnson/
http://www.slashfilm.com/film-video...-and-director-of-looper-talks-major-spoilers/



Notice how neither the interviewer nor the director even entertain the possibility that something different happened in the "original timeline."

The entire movie hits you over the head that the scene you're seeing at the end is EXACTLY what leads to Cid becoming the Rainmaker, not some other random off-screen event you never see from another timeline.


The "rumors" are very specific: Cid witnesses his mom being killed by someone, part of his jaw gets shot up, and he wears a mask or has a fake jaw for that reason.

At the end, young Joe has a moment of clarity that this is the exact moment from the rumors, and he has an opportunity to change it, and does. Now, Cid does not become the Rainmaker.

Because the chicken and egg scenario doesn't make sense (if you try to make sense of it), there are retconists who try to explain it by making up theories and scenarios that aren't supported by or hinted at the movie itself. In fact the movie goes through great lengths to explain exactly what happens, and you still don't get it.

I don't think the director saying something proves anything—at the end of the day, all we have (and all we should have) is the film that they've made and I think the poster's assumptions/conclusions are plausible within the context of the film. Maybe he's giving the film too much credit, but I don't think it's ever made clear that your conclusion (and this is to the director's fault more than anything, if that's really what he wanted to say) of the chicken and the egg is true within the film. Just because the lead character explicitly says he thinks its true doesn't make it true.
 
the kid already thought he saw his mom die and the bullet wound was hardly severe. And just because the director doesn't have an answer doesn't mean there isn't one. I fail to see how I "don't get it" considering everything I said works quite well in the context of the movie and your version uses the same evidence but doesn't make as much sense in the context of the movie.

quite simply, there is no conceivable way either Joe had an impact on Cid in the initial timeline. We see the flashes forward, Cid doesn't meet either Joe until Old joe throws off the loop.

The filmmaker creates the rules of the universe. Your "idea" doesn't work in the context of the movie because that's not what the people who made the movie intended, nor is it what happened in the actual movie. It's just something you made up so that the movie makes more sense in your head.

I don't think the director saying something proves anything—at the end of the day, all we have (and all we should have) is the film that they've made and I think the poster's assumptions/conclusions are plausible within the context of the film. Maybe he's giving the film too much credit, but I don't think it's ever made clear that your conclusion (and this is to the director's fault more than anything, if that's really what he wanted to say) of the chicken and the egg is true within the film. Just because the lead character explicitly says he thinks its true doesn't make it true.

This doesn't make any sense. The people who made the movie had very specific ideas, events in mind and put it into a movie, and even explained it after people asked them about it afterwards.

It's like if the rainmaker rumors were: "The rainmaker kid saw a guy wearing a green coat and jeans and a top hat kill his mom in a cornfield at 2pm", they show that exact scene at the end of the movie and there's a subtitle flashing "btw, this is the exact scene we were talking about", then the director confirming afterwards that the scene was indeed what the rumors were based on, and crazy viewers going "WELL, MAYBE IT WAS A DIFFERENT GUY WEARING A GREEN COAT AND JEANS AND TOPHAT IN A CORNFIELD AT 2PM ON A DIFFERENT DAY BECAUSE IT MAKES MORE SENSE THAT WAY, TO ME."
 
P.S. Do away with the Bruce Willis makeup on JGL, it's unneeded. And the attempt at trying to blend between JGL and Bruce Willis within the flash forward was SO fucking bad.
Dude that was Oscar level effects for brad pitt
 
This doesn't make any sense. The people who made the movie had very specific ideas, events in mind and put it into a movie, and even explained it after people asked them about it afterwards.

It's like if the rainmaker rumors were: "The rainmaker kid saw a guy wearing a green coat and jeans and a top hat kill his mom in a cornfield at 2pm", they show that exact scene at the end of the movie and there's a subtitle flashing "btw, this is the exact scene we were talking about", then the director confirming afterwards that the scene was indeed what the rumors were based on, and crazy viewers going "WELL, MAYBE IT WAS A DIFFERENT GUY WEARING A GREEN COAT AND JEANS AND TOPHAT IN A CORNFIELD AT 2PM ON A DIFFERENT DAY BECAUSE IT MAKES MORE SENSE THAT WAY, TO ME."

Ridley Scott says Deckard is a Replicant. That doesn't mean that Blade Runner says Deckard is a replicant. That's what I mean regarding ignoring authorial intent, to use a really well known example.

Now, regarding the chicken and the egg. I'm not saying that the director add your contrived scenario (so thanks for the straw man), I'm saying have a shot of the kid growing up to not be a mass killer or some extra scene, shot, whatever if he wanted to make it explicit. There are plenty of ways to make unambiguous endings for time travel movies (see: Terminator 2 alternate ending). In this case, the director didn't make it explicit. Maybe that was a mistake, maybe that was intentional to create ambiguiity. But the point is—the ambiguity is there. You choose to ignore it (which is fine.) and I (and the other poster) choose to read into it a little bit more. I don't see why either option is wrong, and I definitely don't see a need to be a dick about it.
 
Overall a really good movie. But I also had some issues:

It was never explained why Joe didn´t have such a big problem with mass murdering victims from gangs. That especially troubled me when he was perfetly fine with shitting on his future life( the talk in the restaurant) but instantly build up a emotional connection with the kid, who was going to be a mass murder. It felt forced.
Also the whole Looper thing seem to exist because in the future, killings are so difficult. The rainmaker made them. He made them with these silly "long raincoat with hats"- guys, which have been obviously a tribute to the scifi-genre but felt so misplaced in this universe which tried to be so real. And why is it only so difficult to murder someone? What about other crimes?
I also didn´t like that the movie took some cheap routes. The " How to kill someone who knows your moves" - premise never really paid off. And what if the future version of one of these guys never appeared at the place where he was tortured?
 
The movie was generally trying to make a connection between Joe and Cid and illustrate the transformative power of love in a person's development. Young Joe didn't really have that, and Old Joe spent time trying to explain how love could "save" or "change" a person dramatically. Similarly, Cid is like Young Joe at the crossroads... his mom could die like his and he could be set adrift, "like so many young men with no idea what to do" to paraphrase Cid's mom at some point in the story. Or, Cid's mom could live, and Cid could grow up with a loving, caring force around him that would transform his future. Joe's mom not being there led to his current life. Contrast the "good" transformation Joe goes through with his wife, versus the "false" transformation that he goes through with Jeff Daniels' character. Jeff Daniels claims to have saved him and changed his life but ultimately it's hollow, it's just something to do for somebody with no sense of purpose.

Ultimately Cid seems powerful because of his TK ability but the ultimate power lies in how a person's love can transform you entirely. And yeah, I pretty much put that in the most cheesy wording possible. :P

I guess you can say...*sunglasses*...He closed that loop. (I couldnt resist)

Overall a really good movie. But I also had some issues:

It was never explained why Joe didn´t have such a big problem with mass murdering victims from gangs. That especially troubled me when he was perfetly fine with shitting on his future life( the talk in the restaurant) but instantly build up a emotional connection with the kid, who was going to be a mass murder. It felt forced.

He was about to kill Cid after he saw the powers of his Tk, but when he say Cid alone, frightened, and covered in blood. I guess he had the change of heart.
 
I guess you can say...*sunglasses*...He closed that loop. (I couldnt resist)



He was about to kill Cid after he saw the powers of his Tk, but when he say Cid alone, frightened, and covered in blood. I guess he had the change of heart.

Me too, but after all what happened, it felt way too sudden.
 
Looper craps all over Inception, cleans Inception up, and then craps all over Inception a second time.

inception didnt put me to sleep for half an hour in the middle
why are people even comparing the two movies?
because it has Joseph gordon levitt and science fiction?
 
inception didnt put me to sleep for half an hour in the middle
why are people even comparing the two movies?
because it has Joseph gordon levitt and science fiction?

They're both movies based on original concepts that try to be more than typical blockbuster crap but seem to have some controversy in their execution.
 
Heh, this review reads more like a 1/2 star or 1 star review than a 2.5 star one. Anyway, not to dismiss your review, I simply don't have any response to any of it that hasn't been tread in the topic or that doesn't come down to a difference of opinion other than:
do they say Cid is 10 in the film? I don't recall that at all, and I'm wondering if that was just in the original script you read. I read him as being a prodigious 6yo.
 
Heh, this review reads more like a 1/2 star or 1 star review than a 2.5 star one. Anyway, not to dismiss your review, I simply don't have any response to any of it that hasn't been tread in the topic or that doesn't come down to a difference of opinion other than:
do they say Cid is 10 in the film? I don't recall that at all, and I'm wondering if that was just in the original script you read. I read him as being a prodigious 6yo.

When the Gatman comes into her home, she says she has a husband and a 10 year old child. I suppose she could have been lying about the age of her kid, but why lie? The fact that the kid was learning multiplication and that's typically something you learn in 3rd or 4th grade within the United States, suggests that he'd be around 8 or 9.

And of course my review reads like a 1/2 to 1 star review. There's little point in listing the positives within a thread that is already overly positive.
 
When the Gatman comes into her home, she says she has a husband and a 10 year old child. I suppose she could have been lying about the age of her kid, but why lie? The fact that the kid was learning multiplication and that's typically something you learn in 3rd or 4th grade within the United States, suggests that he'd be around 8 or 9.

And of course my review reads like a 1/2 to 1 star review. There's little point in listing the positives within a thread that is already overly positive.
She lied because she had at that point learned that Joe knew Cid's age, so other dangerous people could have known it too. giving the wrong age was misdirection. Didn't think it was that out of the ordinary (well, not ordinary. you know what I mean).
Don't know if it has been posted, but one of the blogs I frequent called Script Shadow (a blog dedicated to reviewing scripts) reviewed Looper, the film (not the script), and basically had the same issues that I did: http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2012/10/movie-review-looper.html

Maybe they're issues unique to aspiring screenwriters?
Eh, I'm an aspiring screenwriter sorta.
Only semi-related: I've heard plenty of complaints that script shadow's kinda bad for writers. They're used to their scripts being read before production and all, but only by other people in the industry. lot of writers contend that putting reviews of in-production scripts out in the open the way Reeves does leads to studios restricting that script circulation, same way super detailed preview screening reviews have lead to more tightly policed advanced screening today.
 
Looper is the worst example of style over substance?

No, it's "style over substance in the worst way possible" meaning that on a spectrum ranging from "Style over substance, but ultimately a terrible film" and "Style over substance, but ultimately a great film - meaning that there is still legitimate substance despite style being at the fore front of the film," Looper finds itself situated closer to the former.

I honestly don't understand how that sentence is at all difficult to understand.

She lied because she had at that point learned that Joe knew Cid's age, so other dangerous people could have known it too. giving the wrong age was misdirection. Didn't think it was that out of the ordinary (well, not ordinary. you know what I mean).

Does anyone have access to the number on Bruce Willis' hand in the movie? Because the present day is 2042, and the first part of that number sequence tells us the kid's birth date.
 
Does anyone have access to the number on Bruce Willis' hand in the movie? Because the present day is 2042, and the first part of that number sequence tells us the kid's birth date.
It's been weeks so I honestly don't remember: wasn't the birthdate on the map that young Joe stole? even if it wasn't, I remember that his birth number or whatever definitely was, and that alone means that people had access to Cid's information. And since we know at that point already that Sara is extra protective due to Cid's power, she has reason to be cautious.
And if it means anything: Rian responded on twitter that Cid is indeed around 5-7, and she was misdirecting Jesse. I will say that stating that outside of the text isn't always satisfactory, but here I think it works because that's what I got out of the scene without Johnson's input. So I think it was plenty clear from the writing alone.
 
Eh, I'm an aspiring screenwriter sorta.
Only semi-related: I've heard plenty of complaints that script shadow's kinda bad for writers. They're used to their scripts being read before production and all, but only by other people in the industry. lot of writers contend that putting reviews of in-production scripts out in the open the way Reeves does leads to studios restricting that script circulation, same way super detailed preview screening reviews have lead to more tightly policed advanced screening today.

I love the idea of it. Screenplays are still relatively easy to come by if you know where to look, and it's nice to see Carson's viewpoints, as well as those in the comments sections, in respect to your own for each given screenplay. Plus the articles that go up are incredibly informative.
 
When I saw the movie, it was clear that quite a few people thought Cid = Joe = Rainmaker

I thought it to be an interesting concept, how are we sure this wasn't the case?
 
I love the idea of it. Screenplays are still relatively easy to come by if you know where to look, and it's nice to see Carson's viewpoints, as well as those in the comments sections, in respect to your own for each given screenplay. Plus the articles that go up are incredibly informative.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but it would suck if it eventually caused screenplay circulation to be more tightly policed.
I'm an aspiring Prime Minister of Canada.
Hah daaaamn, that's not fair. Being an aspiring writer or just a writerly type does make you look at things differently.
Plus the implication of "aspiring writer" is that you have actually done some writing. I know harson's talked about having written stuff in movie threads before. And I've written random crap. Whereas I doubt you have done very little for your political campaign.
When I saw the movie, it was clear that quite a few people thought Cid = Joe = Rainmaker

I thought it to be an interesting concept, how are we sure this wasn't the case?
we are sure because nothing in the film indicates that that is true. for it to be true,
cid would have to grow up some more, travel back to the 2030s or 2040s and change his name to joe and somehow forget everything that happened to him at age 5, then live his life. none of that occurs or is hinted at.
basically it's not at all supported by the text
 
I know you've already participated in past pages, but how exactly does this comment do anything other than make yourself look foolish in an attempt to discredit my viewpoints?

I'm just teasing, man. I've seen you post this multiple times now and I was just taking a fun poke at it.

EDIT: Ander, I am a civil engineer with no political interest, let alone aspirations
 
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but it would suck if it eventually caused screenplay circulation to be more tightly policed.

I admit I haven't been reading screenplays for all that long, maybe 3-4 years at the most, but haven't screenplays for distant released films always been pretty underground while recently released/soon to be released film scripts are readily available on script related sites? That's how it's always been since I started reading.

I'm just teasing, man. I've seen you post this multiple times now and I was just taking a fun poke at it.

We can't be friends anymore. I can't remember the last time I agreed with you about a movie! (Did you like Speed Racer? I can't remember. And choose wisely, what's left of our tattered friendship depends on it!)
 
I'm just teasing, man. I've seen you post this multiple times now and I was just taking a fun poke at it.

EDIT: Ander, I am a civil engineer with no political interest, let alone aspirations
so my write-in vote was a waste, great.
I admit I haven't been reading screenplays for all that long, maybe 3-4 years at the most, but haven't screenplays for distant released films always been pretty underground while recently released/soon to be released film scripts are readily available on script related sites? That's how it's always been since I started reading.
I've been reading them for an even shorter time period, but I thought the protocol was exactly that: recently released films have scripts that were easy to find while distant ones operate under an unwritten industry-only rule. And I thought Reeves reviewed some pretty far off ones sometimes.
 
so my write-in vote was a waste, great.

I've been reading them for an even shorter time period, but I thought the protocol was exactly that: recently released films have scripts that were easy to find while distant ones operate under an unwritten industry-only rule. And I thought Reeves reviewed some pretty far off ones sometimes.

That is the protocol, and I've been able to find 98% of the ones he has reviewed that I've wanted to find.
 
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