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[oatmeal]

He complained forever about the outrigger shootout, claiming that since they didn't pay off, it is 'bad storytelling'. But he never complained about the random fire arrows coming from the islands inhabitants before that.

Who were they? What a stupid show! I wanted to meet their leader, I wish they had spent 2 episodes detailing how you become a man in a tribe that shoots fire arrows first, and asks questions later.

Damnit.

 

[Erigu]

Possibly, but they never showed it so it doesn't apply.

What "doesn't apply"? It's just that I find it funny how Jacob's corpse really didn't last long, whereas his adoptive mother's stayed put for thousand of years. 'Guess it had to: POTUS asked for it! Same thing for the Man in Black's body somehow resurfacing so Jacob could leave it in that cave. Not contrived at all. :lol

It kept people from looking for the flight anymore, which could have led to them finding the island.

Is it possible to just stumble on the island though? Several lines from the show seem to imply you need an invitation...

A deleted scene?

Yup, a deleted scene that shows once again how the writers just love throwing utterly random shit at their audience. :lol

We don't know who did that.

I know. Just trying to tie some loose ends. That sounds like something Ben would do: "Machiavellian" according to the show, absolutely ridiculous if you take a second to think about it. :lol

Might have been the same person who deviced a musical number to turn off the Looking Glass.

Oh, god...

It seems to me that if the show doesn't show it, for whatever reason, then it's bad storytelling.

Whuh? No, of course not.

He complained forever about the outrigger shootout, claiming that since they didn't pay off, it is 'bad storytelling'.

Well duh.

But he never complained about the random fire arrows coming from the islands inhabitants before that.

I did, actually.

Who were they?

YOUNG BLONDE HOSTILE: There were 20 of you at the beach, but only five of you here. Where are the rest of your people?
MILES: Maybe they got blown up by some more of your land mines.
YOUNG BLONDE HOSTILE: We didn't put them here. You did.

They were Others, and they thought the poor mute crash survivors were US soldiers.
A better question would probably be: just what do US soldiers look like, according to the Others?

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Is it possible to just stumble on the island though? Several lines from the show seem to imply you need an invitation...

Dharma Initiative

 

[Blader]

I really liked S6, even though Across the Sea ended up derailing it from being my favorite season.

 

[Erigu]

Dharma Initiative

And the main characters just happened to board the same plane and fly over Desmond as he was late for the button. And yet, we're told Jacob was responsible (incidentally, that means Jack's hydrogen bomb plan was even worse than it looked like: if Jacob wants you on the island, he'll find a way, sorry, man!).
And the names "Straume", "Lewis" and "Linus" could be found in the cave/lighthouse... So who's to say for DHARMA's "discovery", really?

Ridiculously vague supernatural powers and rules make for such a compelling show...

 

[.GqueB.]

One of my friends keeps warning me to stop watching Lost after season 4, telling me that season 5 is horrible. Should I keep watching the show, i.e. is there a significant payoff, with mysteries solved, questions answered, etc... Basically, does Lost suffer a big drop off in quality after season 4?

My advice would be to proceed with caution. I, personally, think the show dips pretty drastically after season 4 but at the same time, I cant imagine you stopping there since it ends with a rather large cliff hanger.

I would say that all the inconsistencies, "bad storytelling" and plot holes that people like to point out is a result of normal message board discussion. Everyone likes to sound eloquent and intelligent because otherwise, their point wont be heard.

But my honest to god assessment of season 5 and 6? While entertaining, it all just came off as stupid non-sense. The first 4 seasons felt a bit more grounded in reality and you were looking forward to the writers making sense of it all. After a while, it all got so dumb that I didnt even know what questions to ask anymore. As I said, watch but proceed with caution. As long as you know what youre getting into it'll be a good watch.

If anything, you should watch just so you can either side with Erigu or argue against him since so many people seem to enjoy it so much. :lol

 

[oatmeal]

What "doesn't apply"? It's just that I find it funny how Jacob's corpse really didn't last long, whereas his adoptive mother's stayed put for thousand of years. 'Guess it had to: POTUS asked for it! Same thing for the Man in Black's body somehow resurfacing so Jacob could leave it in that cave. Not contrived at all. :lol
His corpse was burned in a fire, MIB and Mother's weren't. Jack resurfaced from the cave in the same spot MIB did, wasn't a one time thing.

Is it possible to just stumble on the island though? Several lines from the show seem to imply you need an invitation...
Desmond stumbled upon it, doing Widmore's race around the world. It can also 'summon' people to it, like it did with Rousseau.

Yup, a deleted scene that shows once again how the writers just love throwing utterly random shit at their audience. :lol
Random italicized word, make fun of writers, post with no substance. Add emoticon.

I know. Just trying to tie some loose ends. That sounds like something Ben would do: "Machiavellian" according to the show, absolutely ridiculous if you take a second to think about it. :lol
Sure, or it could be the makings of someone that is bored. Fact is, the show didn't show it, so why does it matter? Does that really change the story at all? Are we really to sit here and think this island can cure cancer, can heal a paraplegic, but it's ridiculous that it has two computer based systems where you have to more than just enter a command into operate?

Whuh? No, of course not.
You've used that argument before, you clung to it like you cling to this thread regarding the outrigger scene.

They were Others, and they thought the poor mute crash survivors were US soldiers.
A better question would probably be: just what do US soldiers look like, according to the Others?
Uh, the arrows weren't shot from US soldiers. I'm pretty sure they flashed after that sequence.

If nitpicking was a sport, you'd win the gold!

 

[oatmeal]

And the main characters just happened to board the same plane and fly over Desmond as he was late for the button. And yet, we're told Jacob was responsible (incidentally, that means Jack's hydrogen bomb plan was even worse than it looked like: if Jacob wants you on the island, he'll find a way, sorry, man!).
And the names "Straume", "Lewis" and "Linus" could be found in the cave/lighthouse... So who's to say for DHARMA's "discovery", really?

Ridiculously vague supernatural powers and rules make for such a compelling show...

Yes, the main characters just happened to fly over. What kind of nonsense is that? Is that really a negative of the show?

If Walter White wasn't with his brother-in-law when he saw the meth lab get raided, the show doesn't exist. If Don Draper had a sick day when Sterling came in to buy a fur, the show doesn't exist.

Every story has a moment, a catalyst that causes the story to unfold...

You're really grasping at straws.

Now quote this in chunks and at my "grasping at straws" line, write something witty like "just like the writers were grasping at straws when they said they had planned it from the beginning."

(EDIT)
The hydrogen bomb plan was Faraday's, Jack just believed it would work. But it didn't, as it was the cause of the event in the first place...just like it always had been.

The names were in the lighthouse, doesn't mean that Jacob didn't guide them during their lives to make choices that would lead to them stumbling upon the island. It's not part of the show, so why does it matter?

Why not stick to the show, rather than complain about ancillary things that don't matter? I'm sure in your fun stories of children playing musical chairs mixed with Power Rangers, there are side things that don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Coop]

I come into this thread every once in awhile and it's always the same people, arguing about the same thing.

Take some advice from the show and LET GO.

 

[oatmeal]

I come into this thread every once in awhile and it's always the same people, arguing about the same thing.

Take some advice from the show and LET GO.

I'm on Christmas Vacation at my wife's families house, surely you don't want me to sit around and chat with my in-laws.

 

[Raist]

Why?

Dont you dare fucking reply to me erigu

Well simply because they handled the whole Others/Jacob/Whidmore very poorly. It's fine to try to "trick" your viewers, use erd herrings and stuff, but at some point when you start contradicting yourself there's a problem. Honestly, one doesn't really pay attention by viewing the show as episodes are aired, but if you watch the whole thing in a rather short amount of time it's quite clear that they didn't have a clear plan and ended up messing up quite a bit.

 

[Erigu]

Jack resurfaced from the cave in the same spot MIB did, wasn't a one time thing.

Consistency! Consistency is good!
... Too bad it doesn't make the whole thing any less contrived. Clearly, that happened because it was convenient for the writers, and "screw common sense!"

Desmond stumbled upon it, doing Widmore's race around the world.

Did he?
Who's to say, after all? He was a big part of Jacob's final plan, and Jacob, despite his claims that he values free will over all, apparently is the kind of guy who can send you on a set course for the rest of your life just by touching you as a kid (no, not a pedophile, the other kind)...
(and there was the fact the MiB apparently couldn't kill him... yes, new vague rules! yummy!)

Random italicized word, make fun of writers, post with no substance. Add emoticon.

That's not much better, y'know?
Anyway, I thought it was a great example of how the writers just make up nonsensical shit just to troll viewers... But then again, I already came up with similar examples from finalized episodes, and it didn't bother you then either, so I guess that was to be expected...

Sure, or it could be the makings of someone that is bored. Fact is, the show didn't show it, so why does it matter?

OK, you still don't get it... ^^;
First things first: that thing about the chess game is completely stupid. "In case of emergency, checkmate the computer. Quick!"
When I was asking if Ben was the guy who thought of that, that wasn't because I was oh so intrigued about the exact identity of the DHARMA guy who came up with that. I don't care. It was because it's completely silly, makes DHARMA quite vulnerable, and Ben just happens to be a guy who devises supposedly Machiavellian but actually ridiculous plans and eventually betrayed DHARMA. So I go "hey, don't you think it all fits, guyz?!1!"
It was a joke about how some fans seemingly fail to notice the inherent silliness of some elements of the show and formulate all kinds of theories based on them anyway.

You've used that argument before, you clung to it like you cling to this thread regarding the outrigger scene.

No, I never argued that if the show doesn't show something, that's "bad storytelling". That's idiotic.
But there are some things that should be clarified. Like, yes, what the hell was up with that outrigger shoot-out. You can't have a completely unexplained shoot-out like that. Who would open fire like that? Why? C'mon, basic storytelling, man. I know Lost doesn't care, but actual writers try to come up with some kind of justification...

the arrows weren't shot from US soldiers.

'Never said they were. Read again.

Yes, the main characters just happened to fly over. What kind of nonsense is that? Is that really a negative of the show?

It's becoming a trend: you don't get it.

JACOB: I don't really know where to start.
HURLEY: How about why you brought us to the Island?
JACOB: I brought all of you here because I made a mistake. A mistake I made a very long time ago, and now, because of that there's a very good chance that every single one of you and everyone you've ever cared about is going to die.
SAWYER: What mistake?
JACOB: You call him "The Monster." But I'm responsible for what happened to him. I made him that way. And ever since then he's been trying to kill me. It was only a matter of time before he figured out how, and when he did, someone would have to replace me. And that's why I brought you all here.
SAWYER: Tell me something, Jacob. Why do I gotta be punished for your mistake? What made you think you could mess with my life? I was doin' just fine til you dragged my ass to this damn rock.
JACOB: No, you weren't. None of you were. I didn't pluck any of you out of a happy existence. You were all flawed. I chose you because you were like me. You were all alone. You were all looking for something that you couldn't find out there. I chose you because you needed this place as much as it needed you.

Toward the end of the show, it is explicitly stated that it was all Jacob's doing. Not a coincidence, not bad timing, not bad luck.
And my point was that it might be the same thing for DHARMA discovering the island, for all we know.

The hydrogen bomb plan was Faraday's, Jack just believed it would work.

Well, shit, that changes everything!
... Except my point was that it was stupid, so no, not really.

The names were in the lighthouse, doesn't mean that Jacob didn't guide them during their lives to make choices that would lead to them stumbling upon the island.

"Doesn't meant that he didn't"? Er... Well, yeah, that was my point, actually: it's possible that he did.

your fun stories of children playing musical chairs mixed with Power Rangers

Heh.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Well simply because they handled the whole Others/Jacob/Whidmore very poorly. It's fine to try to "trick" your viewers, use erd herrings and stuff, but at some point when you start contradicting yourself there's a problem. Honestly, one doesn't really pay attention by viewing the show as episodes are aired, but if you watch the whole thing in a rather short amount of time it's quite clear that they didn't have a clear plan and ended up messing up quite a bit.

I dont understand, why is it handled poorly? You dont explain why.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Consistency! Consistency is good!
... Too bad it doesn't make the whole thing any less contrived. Clearly, that happened because it was convenient for the writers, and "screw common sense!"

Well people have debated it and i guess the common reason is because MiB was an incredibly angry man so the darkness was able to connect with him.

Jack didnt become smokey because he wasnt full of malice. He was laughing his head off in the source.

 

[brandonh83]

Awww yeah

 

[Erigu]

people have debated it and i guess the common reason is because MiB was an incredibly angry man so the darkness was able to connect with him. Jack didnt become smokey because he wasnt full of malice.

*massages temples* :lol
I was saying that it was contrived how the MiB fell in that cave, and his body conveniently resurfaced elsewhere (somehow) so Jacob could find it and and put "Adam" in place. Same thing for Jack, who was needed elsewhere for the final shot.
For some reason, that didn't happen to Desmond... And there's a bunch of skeletons in that cave, too...

 

[Blue Ninja]

Awww yeah

Is it good? I'm considering picking it up.

 

[brandonh83]

Is it good? I'm considering picking it up.

I know that there are inconsistent facts, but from what I've read they're considerably small and not that important. But yes, I skimmed through it earlier for about an hour and it has practically everything you need to know. It even has a translated manuscript of the writings on the cork :lol

 

[Drealmcc0y]

*massages temples* :lol
I was saying that it was contrived how the MiB fell in that cave, and his body conveniently resurfaced elsewhere (somehow) so Jacob could find it and and put "Adam" in place. Same thing for Jack, who was needed elsewhere for the final shot.
For some reason, that didn't happen to Desmond... And there's a bunch of skeletons in that cave, too...

Well its the exit, just like the exit to the frozen donkey wheel is tunisia.

It didnt happen to Desmond because of his immunity which has been something everyone has known since season2/3.

 

[ivysaur12]

The problem with season 6 is, is that you have to rewatch to be able to appreciate the stroytelling being done there.

Which isnt a problem for me at all, because i love to rewatch.

Its a bold move by Darlton to do something thats gonna generate alot of hate because of it, but then again lost has always been a bold show.

They really made season 6 for the biggest fans no doubt.

Edit: ^ WTF is erigu blabbering on about now?

Eh, even then, it's not nearly as lean as it should have been. Still serviceable and The End is great, it just never lives up to its (possibly unrealistic) potential.

And Across the Sea.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Eh, even then, it's not nearly as lean as it should have been.

And Across the Sea.

Which is one of my favourite episodes.

Dude, if i remember right you didnt say it was bad, just "odd".

You jumping on the AtS hate bandwagon?

Also you havent rewatched it yet, so I dont really see how you can make that judgement

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah, the whole reason Widmore brought Desmond to the island was so that Desmond could successfully go down into the cave without getting owned. And a river flows through the cave, which is the "exit point."

As far as the same thing not happening to Jack, well, there could be several very fictitious reasons. Could be because he was protector at some point. Could be because he didn't go down there with any intention of trying to misuse or harness the power contained within. Could be because when he went down, the cork had already been lifted which could have made it less potent or something; it was very unstable.

Lost is definitely not a show that you should watch if you're not able to bend over to the logic within its own context. We don't fully know or understand the properties of the cave, or its light, or how said properties reacts with different people with different intentions and psychologies.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I know that there are inconsistent facts, but from what I've read they're considerably small and not that important. But yes, I skimmed through it earlier for about an hour and it has practically everything you need to know. It even has a translated manuscript of the writings on the cork :lol

Good god, sounds excellent.

I'll be ordering this alongside Halo: Cryptum from Amazon then. The proverbial two birds with one stone.

 

[brandonh83]

Good god, sounds excellent.

I'll be ordering this alongside Halo: Cryptum from Amazon then. The proverbial two birds with one stone.

It does put a few things into solid wording, too. Nothing we don't already know, but it more or less takes the things said and explained during the show and puts it into more coherent sentencing. Kind of makes some things a bit more clear.

I like how there are sections for every single character, practically everything about them, as well as sections for things like Constants, time travel, etc. It also has some really cool maps for some of the DHARMA stations and goes into good detail about each.

 

[ivysaur12]

Which is one of my favourite episodes.

Dude, if i remember right you didnt say it was bad, just "odd".

You jumping on the AtS hate bandwagon?

The fact that I still think about the episode and wrestle with how I feel about it means it wasn't bad.

It's odd and fairly out of place. Some of the answers were vague and frankly stupid (what exactly is "the wheel"? "light"?) but it did exhibit a visually beautiful fairy tale of two brothers. And apparently Allison Janney is an amazing actress, but that wasn't exhibited in the episode. I also appreciate that there is some mystery left to elements of the island and that exposition is rarely an effective tool for story telling.

As I said, I still wrestle with how I feel about the episode, which may be the intended effect. I just don't really know how I feel about it.

Yeah, the whole reason Widmore brought Desmond to the island was so that Desmond could successfully go down into the cave without getting owned. And a river flows through the cave, which is the "exit point."

As far as the same thing not happening to Jack, well, there could be several very fictitious reasons. Could be because he was protector at some point. Could be because he didn't go down there with any intention of trying to misuse or harness the power contained within. Could be because when he went down, the cork had already been lifted which could have made it less potent or something; it was very unstable.

Lost is definitely not a show that you should watch if you're not able to bend over to the logic within its own context. We don't fully know or understand the properties of the cave, or its light, or how said properties reacts with different people with different intentions and psychologies.

This is so correct.

I'm also willing to forgive some inconsistencies for powerful character moments and fantastic development, which Lost delivers.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

(what exactly is "the wheel"? "light"?)

The wheel is just a wheel.

It was a means MiB tried to use to leave the island. He didnt realise this but because he was manipulating the light it caused the island to move aswell as a side effect.

It would have worked if he got the chance and ended up in tunisia.

The source is life and death.

It has the capacity of both good and evil, light and dark, heaven and hell.

 

[brandonh83]

Here's the translated script that is written on the stone cork:

Embrace that which the Balance hath weighed, let a path be made for the Osiris in the great valley, and let the Osiris have light to guide him on his way.
He hath reconciled the Two Fighters (Horus and Set), the guardians of life.
Break the immovable yoke that we may sleep.
That silence may reign and we may sleep.

I don't know if this has already been posted, but there it is.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

What is gods name does that mean :lol

 

[brandonh83]

What is gods name does that mean :lol

Probably something to do with this:

Wikipedia: Osiris was an Egyptian god, usually identified as the god of the Afterlife.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Its just some crazy talk by some Egyptians though or w/e era its from.

 

[brandonh83]

I looked up info on the "two fighters" Horus and Set, and found this:

Set poked out Horus's left eye so Horus cut off Set's testicles, making him sometimes known as the god of infertility. :lol

Oh, and:

More specifically, Set was worshipped in the relatively large metropolitan (yet provincial) locale of Sepermeru, especially during the Rammeside Period.[2] There, Seth was honored with an important temple called the "House of Seth, Lord of Sepermeru." One of the epithets of this town was "gateway to the desert," which fits well with Set's role as a deity of the frontier regions of ancient Egypt.

Tunisia, anyone?

Sounds to me that this is where they got all their inspiration about how things on the island work. Not saying it explains anything, but there's a lot of huge elements of what happens in the show cropping up all over the place as I read this stuff.

 

[brandonh83]

Moar!

Yet there was trouble. Proud Set, noble Set, the brother of Osiris, he who defended the Sun Boat from Apep the Destroyer, was unsettled in his heart. He coveted the throne of Osiris. He coveted Isis. He coveted the power over the living world and he desired to take it from his brother. In his dark mind he conceived of a plot to kill Osiris and take all from him. He built a box and inscribed it with wicked magic that would chain anyone who entered it from escaping.

Set took the box to the great feast of the gods. He waited until Osiris had made himself drunk on much beer, then challenged Osiris to a contest of strength. Each one in turn would enter the box, and attempt, through sheer strength, to break it open. Osiris, sure in his power yet feeble in mind because of his drink, entered the box. Set quickly poured molten lead into the box. Osiris tried to escape, but the wicked magic held him bound and he died. Set then picked up the box and hurled it into the Nile where it floated away.

Seems to me that the writers intended for the island to represent that box, and the text refers to different people entering the "box" and attempting to break it open. This reminds me of Dharma, Widmore, etc. going to the island and attempting to break it, or harness its power.

But even beyond that, there's so much connection there. The plot to kill Osiris is reminiscent of Man in Black's plot to kill Jacob (since Set and Osiris are brothers), how Set coveted everything about Osiris, etc.

 

[Erigu]

Well its the exit, just like the exit to the frozen donkey wheel is tunisia.
It didnt happen to Desmond because of his immunity which has been something everyone has known since season2/3.

So he's also immune to that, huh? Well, I'm glad you managed to get the specifics of Desmond's "specialness", anyway...
And Jack could stay just long enough to send Desmond back up, plug the island and laugh his ass off, but then, *poof*?
And what about those skeletons, then? They were actually older than the heart? They weren't supposed to tell us "boy, dangerous energy is dangerous"? They just broke their neck or something?

the whole reason Widmore brought Desmond to the island was so that Desmond could successfully go down into the cave without getting owned.

What do you mean by "owned"? 'Cause Desmond was in pretty bad shape and couldn't put the plug back... Not much of a "success".
Good thing Jack could do just as well as Desmond, in the end... So much for specialness.

a river flows through the cave, which is the "exit point."

The cave isn't exactly flooded either... Even the pool is pretty shallow and there's virtually no current. Also, the MiB would need to survive the fall and crawl to get there, right? And we know he didn't, since the Smoke Monster appeared immediately...
'Not seeing it, really... 'Looks like some kind of convenient magic, once again...

As far as the same thing not happening to Jack, well, there could be several very fictitious reasons. Could be because he was protector at some point. Could be because he didn't go down there with any intention of trying to misuse or harness the power contained within.

... So Jacob could have taken care of that, too?

Could be because when he went down, the cork had already been lifted which could have made it less potent or something; it was very unstable.

But the cave turned red! Surely, that means it got more dangerous, right? :lol
Ah, well. 100% fanwank, but I guess it could work, yeah...

We don't fully know or understand the properties of the cave, or its light, or how said properties reacts with different people with different intentions and psychologies.

Just like we don't know what all those rules were, the extent of the protector's powers, why some characters (but not others) were jumping through time, why the MiB would go ahead and murder people left and right upon escaping the island, what the destruction of the island would mean for the rest of the world, why Jacob brought so many people on the island anyway, etc.
Rules, motivations, stakes... It was all a (convenient) blur. How engaging.
The writers sure can thank the cast and the composer: chances are they're the reason some viewers managed not to have a problem with that...

Some of the answers were vague and frankly stupid (what exactly is "the wheel"? "light"?)

And water! Don't forget the water, or it won't work, obviously.

But even beyond that, there's so much connection there.

You think, really? ^^;

The plot to kill Osiris is reminiscent of Man in Black's plot to kill Jacob (since Set and Osiris are brothers), how Set coveted everything about Osiris, etc.

The MiB didn't want to take Jacob's place...

 

[Drealmcc0y]

cool read brotha

 

[Catalix]

Good hustle, brandon :lol

Tons of neat little connections. Never seen the cork translation before either. Good shit, man.

 

[brandonh83]

What do you mean by "owned"? 'Cause Desmond was in pretty bad shape and couldn't put the plug back... Not much of a "success".
Good thing Jack could do just as well as Desmond, in the end... So much for specialness.

Widmore probably didn't intend Desmond to come back out. He just needed him to lift the cork. Desmond was subjected to a ton of electromagnetism, making him a bit more immune to it, but it doesn't completely act as a shield. Widmore is your typical Indiana Jones style villain who wants power, yet doesn't understand it or know what it is. He's just convinced that he wants it.

But the cave turned red! Surely, that means it got more dangerous, right? :lol
Ah, well. 100% fanwank, but I guess it could work, yeah...

The Encyclopedia states "Over the ages, some died after entering, and others were granted safe passage to help protect the light." To me it seems that the properties of the cave can even change depending on who goes down into it. I can see Widmore going down into it and ending up a corpse, and I can see Jack going down into it, with better intentions, and being able to help "fix" it.

This is all fantasy stuff. Fiction. You're trying too hard to make realistic sense out of it. Yeah, it's very ambiguous and not everything about it was explained. I think it's a lot more fun to try to understand it based on what info the writers gives to us, rather than having everything explained in a logical way that would have sounded silly as all fuck.

 

[brandonh83]

You think, really? ^^;

The MiB didn't want to take Jacob's place...

Okay, now you're just being a dick. See, this is the difference between us. I'm trying to take what I know about the show, and about what kind of stuff I can find online after a bit of easy research, and you're just here acting as the antagonist to every fucking thing anyone says, no matter what. I'm trying to talk about the show and understand it, whereas you sit around waiting for any scrape of possibility to either shoot down what someone says or to find something contradictory.

That's annoying, and is the perfect model of why some people here think of you the way they do. Personally, it's whatever to me, I'm not going to lose sleep over anything you say and I do like to use your posts to my benefit because you do get me to question things that I hadn't thought about before but instead of seeing it as bad storytelling, I look into it to see what I can figure out.

Anyway, no, Man in Black didn't want to take Jacob's place but he certainly wanted to kill him. The story of Osiris obviously doesn't match up perfectly to every single detail on Lost, but it's clearly inspiration. There's a difference between being inspired, and copying something directly.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

whereas you sit around waiting for any scrape of possibility to either shoot down what someone says or to find something contradictory.

Fucking this.

No matter what he will always look for holes in every little thing said.

 

[TripOpt55]

I was just going to pop in here and ask if the Encyclopedia was worth getting. Sounds like it is. I was looking for a gift for this friend of mine that got me into the series years ago and this might be good. Might need to get a copy for myself too though.

 

[brandonh83]

I was just going to pop in here and ask if the Encyclopedia was worth getting. Sounds like it is. I was looking for a gift for this friend of mine that got me into the series years ago and this might be good. Might need to get a copy for myself too though.

It's practically just a... a lot of things you already knew, just in one place kind of product, only with more insight and nice little things like Dharma station maps, island maps, info about constants and time traveling and other things. It's a very very good comprehensive guide.

It also has every Sawyer nickname, and pretty much every single time the numbers (4, 8, etc.) are referred to in various ways.

A no-brainer purchase for any Lost fan, for sure.

 

[Blader]

The Encyclopedia states "Over the ages, some died after entering, and others were granted safe passage to help protect the light." To me it seems that the properties of the cave can even change depending on who goes down into it. I can see Widmore going down into it and ending up a corpse, and I can see Jack going down into it, with better intentions, and being able to help "fix" it.

Makes sense. That'd explain why anyone could go down there to create the cork in the first place.

 

[brandonh83]

I think the best way to describe the cave is by referring to it as the Silent Hill cave.

 

[TripOpt55]

It's practically just a... a lot of things you already knew, just in one place kind of product, only with more insight and nice little things like Dharma station maps, island maps, info about constants and time traveling and other things. It's a very very good comprehensive guide.

It also has every Sawyer nickname, and pretty much every single time the numbers (4, 8, etc.) are referred to in various ways.

A no-brainer purchase for any Lost fan, for sure.

Yeah, sounds good. I like the idea of the maps in particular and just having something to flip through when bored. Seems like something fun to just have around.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

how many pages of the encyclopaedia are there? i think i might get it

 

[brandonh83]

Right around 400.

 

[Erigu]

Widmore probably didn't intend Desmond to come back out. He just needed him to lift the cork.

But if he can't put it back...
Between that and Ilana "wait, which Kwon is it? which Kwon?!" Verdansky, it looks like Jacob's briefings are pretty shitty. :lol

The Encyclopedia states "Over the ages, some died after entering, and others were granted safe passage to help protect the light." To me it seems that the properties of the cave can even change depending on who goes down into it. I can see Widmore going down into it and ending up a corpse, and I can see Jack going down into it, with better intentions, and being able to help "fix" it.

And then, there's the MiB and the "fate worse than death" mentioned by Mom...
When the rules always change, it's like there are no rules at all... The writers can do absolutely anything they want without a care in the world. Again: not engaging...

This is all fantasy stuff. Fiction. You're trying too hard to make realistic sense out of it.

It has nothing to do with realism...
And just because it's fantasy, it doesn't mean you get to gloss over crucial elements like the motivations, the stakes, and the rules of your universe.

The bad guy wants to do that because... he has his reasons. Isn't it fun to speculate?
He has to come up with convoluted plans because... there are bothersome magical, unspoken rules. Just roll with it.
They have to stop him, or else... something bad will happen? Perhaps?
That's just shitty storytelling.

I think it's a lot more fun to try to understand it based on what info the writers gives to us

It's a lot more fun when there's actually something to figure out.

rather than having everything explained in a logical way that would have sounded silly as all fuck.

It's silly as fuck anyway.
And nobody's saying that absolutely everything should be explained... But there's a minimum.

Okay, now you're just being a dick.

'Just saying that you could find all kinds of "connections" like that in various myths, especially if you don't mind glossing over bothersome discrepancies, or jumping from box to island, from Set to Sepermeru to its "gate to the desert" epithet to Tunisia...
And as a veteran of the Evangelion wars, believe me: I've been there. :lol

 

[Drealmcc0y]

400?

Son of a bitch. LOST aint over yet.

 

[brandonh83]

400?

Son of a bitch. LOST aint over yet.

It's... pretty extensive.

And Erigu, I know that connections can be found in various myths, but this wasn't a random myth that I found by happenstance, but one that is directly referenced on an important part of the show. And the fact that there were so many things in the same myth that shares more than coincidental similarities is pretty telling.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Ive been thinking about season 6 today and I think its so fucking good.

The only part i dont like is WKD and Recon can be a little slow and the flashsideways of The Package are pretty shitty. Season 6 would have been perfect with 1 or 2 less episodes.

HEA onwards just didnt let up, fantastic run of episodes.

 

[Erigu]

I know that connections can be found in various myths, but this wasn't a random myth that I found by happenstance, but one that is directly referenced on an important part of the show.

Well, it's mentioned in the encyclopedia, anyway... On the actual show, as far as Egyptian deities go, I'd say Taweret was far more prominent (and still pretty much irrelevant in the end)...
But yeah, it's not like you came up with Horus and Set, indeed. My issue would be with the leaps you took from there...