LOST |OT|

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StuBurns said:
The island is the cork, you remove the cork
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... the cork of the island, that is to say, "the actual cork of the figurative cork"...

the island sinks, and the evil comes out.
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... and by "evil", you mean... the Man in Black? Something else?
But since sinking the island means triggering the end of the world (light extinguished), why even talk about keeping "evil" or the Man in Black "contained" or whatever? Not an issue anymore anyway, if the world has ended, right?

Good thing the cork explanation is there to clarify all this!
 
Erigu said:
... the cork of the island, that is to say, "the actual cork of the figurative cork"...


... and by "evil", you mean... the Man in Black? Something else?
But since messing with the light means the end of the world, why even talk about keeping evil contained or whatever? Not an issue anymore anyway, if the world has ended, right?

Good thing the cork image was meant to help people understand.
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You're being deliberately obtuse.

The island is a physical boundary to a hell. On it there is a cork, which when removed destroys the island, and in doing so, the boundary to hell. That is how 'the world ends' in the event of it's removal.

The bottle of wine represents the Earth, the wine represents evil, and the cork, the island. It just happens that the island itself has a 'cork', I would say a plug is more accurate, but for whatever reason people like to use the word cork.

Hell spewing out, and the end of the world are not separate events in that context.
 
StuBurns said:
You're being deliberately obtuse.
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I'm simply pointing out clumsy writing. How hard would it have been to not call the island a cork before giving it a cork, for example? Not very hard.

The island is a physical boundary to a hell. On it there is a cork, which when removed destroys the island, and in doing so, the boundary to hell.
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And where does the "warm light" of the cave fit, in that picture?
 
Drealmcc0y said:
Things like this is why I laugh at the reasons of why people dislike certain parts of lost.

If you just looked at things from a different point of view you would probably like it.

Self forgivness as explained by Lindelof in the recent interview is an important part of lost. Michael could never forgive himself for what he did. That's why he is not in the church, where as Sayid is. The flashsideways rules are not built on the bible terms of "thou shalt not kill" or you can't go to heaven bitch.

It's more about learning to let go, redeem yourself(or try to) or to forgive yourself. Michael could never forgive himself for what he did.
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Did Michael even get the chance to forgive himself? He never showed up in the flash-sideways.
 
what the actual hell i was browsing around the internets on an unrelated matter and found out that the light manipulating wheel, or 'donkey wheel' as everyone has called it, actually may be a Dharmacakra.

from wiki:

Wikipedia said:
The Dharmachakra - "Wheel of Dharma" or "Wheel of Life", is a symbol that has represented dharma, the Buddha's teaching of the path to enlightenment, since the early period of Indian Buddhism.
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220px-Dharma_Wheel.svg.png


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmacakra

didn't previously know this, much better name than 'donkey' wheel lol.

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Calcaneus said:
Did Michael even get the chance to forgive himself? He never showed up in the flash-sideways.
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Michael never let go of the island, therefore he stayed there. Ben was able to let go of the island (which he was very obsessed about), but couldn't yet forgive himself.
 
bigboss370 said:
Michael never let go of the island, therefore he stayed there.
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What do you mean, "he never let go of the island"?
He left. Didn't want to come back. Was told the island (= the writers' room) wasn't done with him. Died on the freighter (and let's not wonder why Christian appeared to him nor what he meant).
Not seeing it. There would be more obvious examples of characters who died without "letting go of the island"... and they weren't missing from the flash-sideways.
 
Erigu said:
What do you mean, "he never let go of the island"?
He left. Didn't want to come back. Was told the island (= the writers' room) wasn't done with him. Died on the freighter (and let's not wonder why Christian appeared to him nor what he meant).
Not seeing it. There would be more obvious examples of characters who died without "letting go of the island"... and they weren't missing from the flash-sideways.
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-When people die around the Island but cannot "move on" to the next stage, they remain as whispers, watching or trying to communicate with the living.

-After leaving the Island and being rejected from Walt, Michael became suicidal. Consumed with remorse, he tried many times to kill himself and had visions of his victims. To be freed from the Island’s captivity, he accepted to be the Other’s mole again, but showed hesitation when he met his would-be victims. He eventually refused to have more deaths on his conscience and chose to sacrifice himself.

also, Michael was the least attached or interconnected with the other Losties.
 
I remember Ashes to Ashes. I'm not sure how many people have watched Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes in the US, and I don't mean the awful US version of the show. Like Lost, it was a show that had a lot of mystery going on in it.

The finale of the show aired 2 days before the Lost finale, and strangely, they had the same ending basically. Though I think Ashes to Ashes' resolution paid off better than Lost.
 
oatmeal said:
Holy shit. New posts! And a lot of them!

*reads *

LOL
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It's just the ongoing argument between Erigu and fans of the show. As eternal as the island itself...


You know what's ironic? I love LOST, I'm a huge fan of the show, I even loved the way it ended, and yet I actually pretty much agree with everything Erigu says. The show did not answer so many of the questions it raised, and many of the answers it did give just seemed lazy and not satisfying. And a few of the answers were outright copouts that borderline anger me. I don't know if it was just lazy writing, or if they purposefully made things ambiguous just to keep the "mystery" alive. Either way you really can't deny that we got cheated on the honest answers department.

But none of that detracts enough from the feel of the show to keep me from loving watching it, and it's the cast of characters that truly saves the show from this dilemma. In the end it wasn't the answers that made me watch the show every week, it's not the answers that make me still enjoy watching the show today. I watch it because of the people, and what they go through, and how they deal with things together.

I think LOST is, in essence, a bad show that was saved by it's cast. A poorly written mess that was made so incredibly good by the sheer willpower and performances of the people involved. And when I say poorly written I'm referring to the overall story arc, because on a per episode basis the show is written very well. And that too saves it in many ways. The show is great when taken in hour interval glimpses, but when you examine it as one whole story, that's where the show falls apart in a tremendous manner. Either the writers did that purposefully and won a huge gamble, or they just got incredibly lucky that they had a cast who could pull their bad story arc up and make it better than it was.

Either way, I love watching LOST, it is still my favorite show of all time, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And I feel that way despite seeing, acknowledging, and even hating all of it's glaring flaws. Simply put, the good greatly outweighs the bad IMHO. And no amount of arguing facts or plotholes or mistakes will ever change the way the show makes me feel when I watch it.
 
Erigu said:
Back when his daughter got shot, yeah, he went "alright, fuck the rules" (so he summoned the smoke monster because you could do that back then, don't ask)
Then, off-island, Widmore didn't kill him and he didn't kill Widmore because rules.
And in the end, he did kill Widmore anyway.
Okay.
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See, happy endings for all. Nothing to worry about.
 
It makes me happy to see this thread active with much of the same bunch of people that populated these threads years ago.
This thread is so much nicer to read when you have erigu on ignore

Today is my two year anniversary. The night before my wedding, we got a bunch of friends together in our hotel room and watched the finale together. That was a great moment that I'll never forget. I'll always associate Lost with my wedding.
 
butter_stick said:
As a journey, Lost is unmatched. It's obviously not the best show ever, it obviously has flaws, but I've not enjoyed watching anything as much since.
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this. It makes me sad that I probably will never have that experience again. I really wish a prequel/sequel could be made with the same writers/directors involved =(
 
bigboss370 said:
-When people die around the Island but cannot "move on" to the next stage, they remain as whispers, watching or trying to communicate with the living.
Click to expand...
And why couldn't Michael "move on"? What was different about him, compared to the others?

-After leaving the Island and being rejected from Walt, Michael became suicidal. Consumed with remorse, he tried many times to kill himself and had visions of his victims. To be freed from the Island’s captivity, he accepted to be the Other’s mole again, but showed hesitation when he met his would-be victims. He eventually refused to have more deaths on his conscience and chose to sacrifice himself.
Click to expand...
Yes, but I'm not sure what your point is, here?

also, Michael was the least attached or interconnected with the other Losties.
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Ana Lucia was in the flash-sideways.
 
Mengy said:
It's just the ongoing argument between Erigu and fans of the show. As eternal as the island itself...


You know what's ironic? I love LOST, I'm a huge fan of the show, I even loved the way it ended, and yet I actually pretty much agree with everything Erigu says. The show did not answer so many of the questions it raised, and many of the answers it did give just seemed lazy and not satisfying. And a few of the answers were outright copouts that borderline anger me. I don't know if it was just lazy writing, or if they purposefully made things ambiguous just to keep the "mystery" alive. Either way you really can't deny that we got cheated on the honest answers department.

But none of that detracts enough from the feel of the show to keep me from loving watching it, and it's the cast of characters that truly saves the show from this dilemma. In the end it wasn't the answers that made me watch the show every week, it's not the answers that make me still enjoy watching the show today. I watch it because of the people, and what they go through, and how they deal with things together.

I think LOST is, in essence, a bad show that was saved by it's cast. A poorly written mess that was made so incredibly good by the sheer willpower and performances of the people involved. And when I say poorly written I'm referring to the overall story arc, because on a per episode basis the show is written very well. And that too saves it in many ways. The show is great when taken in hour interval glimpses, but when you examine it as one whole story, that's where the show falls apart in a tremendous manner. Either the writers did that purposefully and won a huge gamble, or they just got incredibly lucky that they had a cast who could pull their bad story arc up and make it better than it was.

Either way, I love watching LOST, it is still my favorite show of all time, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And I feel that way despite seeing, acknowledging, and even hating all of it's glaring flaws. Simply put, the good greatly outweighs the bad IMHO. And no amount of arguing facts or plotholes or mistakes will ever change the way the show makes me feel when I watch it.
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Great Post. That's exactly how I feel about the writing of the show. The point is people like Erigu might be correct on many occasions but they can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that even with holes in the overall story LOST is still a great *fun* show to watch.
 
hyp3rlink said:
Great Post. That's exactly how I feel about the writing of the show. The point is people like Erigu might be correct on many occasions but they can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that even with holes in the overall story LOST is still a great *fun* show to watch.
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But Erigu had fun watching it, too. So really we're all better for it.
 
Erigu said:
Yeah, my issue is with the praise it gets for its writing. That's about it.
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The question I've often wondered is this:

Would the show be any more enjoyable with better overall storyline writing?

Last year I bought the blu-ray box set and proceeded to rewatch all of LOST with my girlfriend, who had never seen a single ep of it. She loved it just as much as I do, but towards the end I found that she was asking a lot of questions about story points in the show that didn't make sense to her. Her and I have talked in great lengths about the show, parts that she just didn't understand, parts that went unresolved, and parts that she has issues with. Yet even though all of the plotholes bother her, she still loves the show.

So do I. Even though sometimes the show makes me wish they would go back and do a "director's cut" version of LOST where they explain some things better and go into more detail. But seeing how I already enjoy the show so much, would that actually be worth it? Would it make me enjoy the show more?

I don't know. It's strange to me how a show with so many bad writing points doesn't bother me. Normally they do. For some reason LOST gets away with it for me, and I'm not really sure why. I think it must be because of the characters, the actors, the music. So much is so good that I think it just overshadows the bad and makes it matter less.

In short, I think LOST got real lucky in it's combination of details. Maybe it's that luck factor that makes it so special.
 
This reminds me I need to do an Ashes to Ashes/Life on Mars + LOST comparison thread. I've waited two years, I think that's enough waiting.
 
Mengy said:
Would the show be any more enjoyable with better overall storyline writing?
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Sure. Even as a defender of the show overall, I have a share of problems that directly relate to the writing. I felt like most of season 5, for example, was a complete waste of time (pun unavoidable). I really didn't care for season 5 much. I thought it had its moments and I thought the finale was great, but a lot of it I think was pretty unnecessary.

I think the same story could have been told without the characters being part of Dharma for example. I thought it was cool that it enabled us to go back and see Dharma at work, but at the same time it wasn't necessary and it didn't push anything forward.
 
Mengy said:
The question I've often wondered is this:
Would the show be any more enjoyable with better overall storyline writing?
Click to expand...
Maybe not for the viewers who didn't see the many problems with the random WTF mysteries and plot twists, and enjoyed being blown away by those things "they never saw coming" (because they had no reason to, and even the writers themselves didn't see them coming)...
Aside from that though, I'd say "yes, definitely".
 
DoctorWho said:
This reminds me I need to do an Ashes to Ashes/Life on Mars + LOST comparison thread. I've waited two years, I think that's enough waiting.
Click to expand...

Where can I watch 'Ashes to Ashes'? I don't think Netflix has it. I would love to watch something similar to LOST. Didn't really enjoy the ending, but overall it was one hell of a show and its perhaps my favorite.
 
Just saw the Verge talk with Lindelof, it was really interesting to see him speak so frankly to a someone who was disappointment and the comparison that Lost is one end and the architect from the matrix is on the other is really well out.

And I don't really feel like Lost is on the other end as much, they provide answers to a lot of questions throughout the show but the show was never going to 'not' have mysteries.
 
Labombadog said:
Where can I watch 'Ashes to Ashes'? I don't think Netflix has it. I would love to watch something similar to LOST. Didn't really enjoy the ending, but overall it was one hell of a show and its perhaps my favorite.
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I also recommend Life on Mars (the original) and Ashes to Ashes. I can't answer your question though. It's most likely been released on DVD/BR in the UK, no idea about America.

@Mengy, how does LOST: Fire Walk with Me sound?
 
Caspel said:
Checked the past two pages, no link of this video on Damon Lindelof talking to The Verge about the ending and actually have to explain the ending to a terrible host. Here it is so you can watch Lindelof have amazing patience for an ignorant disappointed host.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5chCMRsEVo&feature=player_embedded#!

Lost a bit of respect for The Verge due to this host.
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It was posted already.

And yeah, it's unbelievable how shitty that host is. He is your typical 'hipster', wearing ironic clothing and sitting there with his smug look.
 
Since the show ended, have there been any interviews or reports on the "way it could have been" from LOST? I remember reading that they strayed far off from the initial series bible and the ending was totally different from what they planned at the start, has someone that's worked on the show ever come out to talk about the alternate story lines that weren't used?

I mean, I love the show as it is, but it's always fun to read about the "what could have been".
 
WordAssassin said:
Since the show ended, have there been any interviews or reports on the "way it could have been" from LOST? I remember reading that they strayed far off from the initial series bible and the ending was totally different from what they planned at the start, has someone that's worked on the show ever come out to talk about the alternate story lines that weren't used?

I mean, I love the show as it is, but it's always fun to read about the "what could have been".
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All I can remember is the ex-Bad Robot employee saying it was true to the ending JJ and Damon had from the beginning.

I was reading through Two For The Road's thread last night and some guy said that he had an insider who told him that 'The Great Man' referenced in Season 2 was a man who watched over the island and was also the smoke monster.

Not too far off.
 
The two warring Gods theme was probably in place from the start. Certainly from the Locke flashback about being a farmer/hunter. The guy who gets sucked into the engine in the Pilot is the play-write who wrote 'Bad Twin'.

But it would appear Mother was both the protector of the island, and a smoke monster given her ability to slaughter a village without being harmed.
 
StuBurns said:
The two warring Gods theme was probably in place from the start. Certainly from the Locke flashback about being a farmer/hunter. The guy who gets sucked into the engine in the Pilot is the play-write who wrote 'Bad Twin'.

But it would appear Mother was both the protector of the island, and a smoke monster given her ability to slaughter a village without being harmed.
Click to expand...

Gary Troup!

or

Purgatory
 
Erigu said:
Maybe not for the viewers who didn't see the many problems with the random WTF mysteries and plot twists, and enjoyed being blown away by those things "they never saw coming" (because they had no reason to, and even the writers themselves didn't see them coming)...
Aside from that though, I'd say "yes, definitely".
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Do you ever post anywhere but here? Is this thread your island/cork/bad metaphor?
 
So Dominic Monaghan said Matt Fox beats women on Twitter.

FAN: Holla at Matthew Fox and tell him to get a twitter I beg of you.
MONAGHAN: He beats women. No thanks.

FAN: I know it was wrong but what?! What about all those good times you had together?!
MONAGHAN: How do you know we ever did? You don’t know either of us. He beats women. Not isolated incidents. Often. Not interested.

FAN: Spreading an accusation that EVEN eww-TMZ didn’t make… How classy. Hope Matthew Fox sues you for defamation.
MONAGHAN: An accusation is when you “claim” someone did something wrong. I know. But hey little fan girl maybe want to get slapped.
MONAGHAN: And it’s very difficult to sue someone for speaking the truth.
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Mengy said:
It's just the ongoing argument between Erigu and fans of the show. As eternal as the island itself...


You know what's ironic? I love LOST, I'm a huge fan of the show, I even loved the way it ended, and yet I actually pretty much agree with everything Erigu says. The show did not answer so many of the questions it raised, and many of the answers it did give just seemed lazy and not satisfying. And a few of the answers were outright copouts that borderline anger me. I don't know if it was just lazy writing, or if they purposefully made things ambiguous just to keep the "mystery" alive. Either way you really can't deny that we got cheated on the honest answers department.

But none of that detracts enough from the feel of the show to keep me from loving watching it, and it's the cast of characters that truly saves the show from this dilemma. In the end it wasn't the answers that made me watch the show every week, it's not the answers that make me still enjoy watching the show today. I watch it because of the people, and what they go through, and how they deal with things together.

I think LOST is, in essence, a bad show that was saved by it's cast. A poorly written mess that was made so incredibly good by the sheer willpower and performances of the people involved. And when I say poorly written I'm referring to the overall story arc, because on a per episode basis the show is written very well. And that too saves it in many ways. The show is great when taken in hour interval glimpses, but when you examine it as one whole story, that's where the show falls apart in a tremendous manner. Either the writers did that purposefully and won a huge gamble, or they just got incredibly lucky that they had a cast who could pull their bad story arc up and make it better than it was.

Either way, I love watching LOST, it is still my favorite show of all time, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And I feel that way despite seeing, acknowledging, and even hating all of it's glaring flaws. Simply put, the good greatly outweighs the bad IMHO. And no amount of arguing facts or plotholes or mistakes will ever change the way the show makes me feel when I watch it.
Click to expand...

Excellent post right here, sums up most of my feelings on this show much better than I could have.
 
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