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[Glass Rebel]

Since the European release of Fire Emblem: Awakening is still about 2 months off (shortages not included) I thought I'd finally give the Advance Wars series a real try. I've played the two entries on the GBA for a bit but only got a few missions in and wanted to change that with Days of Ruin (or Dark Conflict in Europe).

7 Chapters later it's pretty cool and I'm enjoying it a lot although it's pretty similar to the predecessors. There are some new units (I love the bike, great for occupying buildings) and terrain but the level system is a bit useless. Level ups seem to have a very small effect on stats. Haven't gotten CO powers yet but I've heard that they aren't as powerful as in the previous entries.

I never really cared that much for the light-hearted tone of the GBA games and while the post-apocalyptic world doesn't really add that much either I like the art better. The story isn't extraordinary but it fits the bill for the most part. I don't really have a strong opinion either way.

So what's GAF's take on the game? How did it sell anyway and did Nintendo comment on the future of the series? Depending on how I like it I might look for Dual Strike and I don't think I'd say no to a 3DS entry.

 

[SturokBGD]

I love this game but it starts off with this awesome post-apocalyptic scenario and by about chapter 10 it's like every soldier in the world survived and they're all going to fight like a regular old Advance Wars game. Even the maps start getting "brighter".

I don't think the series has a future, unfortunately.

 

[Munin]

To me it was the best game of the series so far. I never got all the compaints about it being "emo" either, just because it's more serious. Well at least that fits the war theme better than a bunch of kids sounding like they're playing a game of Yugioh.

 

[MrT-Tar]

IMO it's my favourite of the series, I personally don't understand the hate this game gets. I love the inclusion of anti-tanks and the motocycle units as well.

I hope Intelligent are hard at work on a 3DS AW game

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Still think the original was best. The sequels just keep adding things, making it more complex if not particularly more enjoyable, and then we got grimdark world here. The original stands alone, a perfect handheld SPRG that the developers couldn't figure out how to improve on, but kept trying anyway.

 

[Semblance]

I think I bought this off a Gaffer last year. Was my first AW game and it seemed pretty dope. Really enjoyed the art design (an unpopular opinion?), the missions, the maps, yadda yadda. Then I got up to chapter fourteen and was getting iced no matter what I tried. Not sure if that chapter was supposed to be brutal, I'm just garbage, or it was some sort of combination of the two. Should probably give it another try!

 

[Ysiadmihi]

It's an incredible game, but the lack of a War Room is baffling. I think it's heads and shoulders above Dual Strike, but DS is the one I go back to simply because of the War Room.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Great game, but I got near the end then lost the cart. Sad.

 

[krYlon]

One of the best strategy games around. Most balanced in the series.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Wow, for some reason I expected this to be a lot less liked than other entries but people seem to like it a lot.

 

[Cat Party]

Best game of the series easily. But the last chapter is impossible if you don't follow a script.

 

[DJ_Lae]

I didn't care for it, although I confess I only played about half of the game before giving up.

Had lost all of the charm of the previous Advance Wars games, which was a big reason for my enjoyment. No War Room really stung too.

And though it was a lesser thing, the awful pixelation on the units in battle scenes was hideous.

 

[JoseJX]

It's an incredible game, but the lack of a War Room is baffling. I think it's heads and shoulders above Dual Strike, but DS is the one I go back to simply because of the War Room.

I'm in this boat. I can't believe there wasn't a war room, it really limited the time I spent with this one compared to DS. I really hope we're getting another Advance Wars now that Fire Emblem is out, but I'm not confident after the way DoR was received.

 

[Shig]

I don't think the series has a future, unfortunately.

DoR is good but tone-wise it was essentially filling the same niche Fire Emblem already occupies. Bloodlusting figureheads, roving bandits, wrestling with the moral quandries of war...

I get that some people are kinda put off by earlier AWs' happy-go-lucky depiction of war, but I think it's best that if you've got two series that are as similar in basic mechanics as AW and FE, that they occupy opposing ends of the spectrum rather than stepping on each others' toes.

 

[KirbyKid]

I'm in this boat. I can't believe there wasn't a war room.

The extra maps are built into the campaign map.

Had lost all of the charm of the previous Advance Wars games, which was a big reason for my enjoyment. No War Room really stung too..

I'm always surprised on how much people play a strategy game for the charm.

Best game of the series easily. But the last chapter is impossible if you don't follow a script.

It is the best game in the series, perhaps of all turn-based strategy games. The final chapter is pretty strict, but I wouldn't say you have to follow a script. I S-ranked nearly every mission in the game.

One of the best strategy games around. Most balanced in the series.

YES. Balance is key. Dual Strike ruined so much of the balance in so many ways it's laughable. This game brought the game back to focused, tight strategy gameplay with a much improved CO system.

Read up on the superior difficulty design of Days of Ruin here.

Read up on the Chess like interplay of positioning units here.

 

[Glass Rebel]

DoR is good but tone-wise it was essentially filling the same niche Fire Emblem already occupies. Bloodlusting figureheads, roving bandits, wrestling with the moral quandries of war...

I get that some people are kinda put off by earlier AWs' happy-go-lucky depiction of war, but I think it's best that if you've got two series that are as similar in basic mechanics as AW and FE, that they occupy opposing ends of the spectrum rather than stepping on each others' toes.

Good point but IMO the right course of action would have been introducing more mechanics that make it different from Fire Emblem. Especially when it comes to environments they could do a lot more with destruction, more terrain effects, more weather etc. Tonally there's still some overlap but that won't matter (as much) if they diverge more in gameplay.

 

[Cramoss]

Very good game but the first one (GBA) still remains the best, it's almost perfect.

 

[Semajer]

I really enjoyed DC, but I still love DS most of all. The storyline was a nice change of pace, but I find myself going back to DS way more often.

I pray IS is making more. I'd also be nice to get some of the Japanese only ones to help tide me over.

 

[Ace Harding]

I have never played an Advance Wars game. I have read its a simplified version of Fire Emblem - is that the case? If I love Awakening should I try AW or just pick up another FE game? Or are they just different and one isn't necessarily deeper than the other?

 

[KirbyKid]

Good point but IMO the right course of action would have been introducing more mechanics that make it different from Fire Emblem. Especially when it comes to environments they could do a lot more with destruction, more terrain effects, more weather etc. Tonally there's still some overlap but that won't matter (as much) if they diverge more in gameplay.

AW is already very different from Fire Emblem. So far, fire emblem isn't a solid strategy game. The RPG elements really cut into that part of the gameplay.

AW is just a strategy game (ignore Dual Strike).

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Also, you never stressing over "oh god one of my dudes just died, RESET" like FE or VC.

But you want DEM S RANKS, THO

 

[Shig]

I'm aware they diverge greatly once you dig beneath the surface, thanks. That's why I stressed 'basic similarities'. The main point of concern there was the overlap in tone.

I pray IS is making more. I'd also be nice to get some of the Japanese only ones to help tide me over.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the pacific, Japanese fans are probably hoping they get this one to tide them over. DoR was never released there.

 

[DJ_Lae]

I'm always surprised on how much people play a strategy game for the charm.

To me what really distinguished Advance Wars from the other games I could have been playing was its lighthearted, silly nature. I guess in a similar vein I enjoyed the Command & Conquer games for being campy, and there came my disappointment with Generals, which went all generic and brooding kind of like AW's Days of Ruin.

With Days of Ruins I felt like I was playing a lifeless clone of the earlier games, with all the colour and heart removed. The gameplay was still solid, but the entire time I felt like I was slogging through this toneless mass. Though at this point the only real defining thing I remember was how much boring story text there was to button through between each mission, and how much I didn't care about it due to the way it was presented. I should find my copy and see if it's as bad as I remember it.

 

[KirbyKid]

I have never played an Advance Wars game. I have read its a simplified version of Fire Emblem - is that the case? If I love Awakening should I try AW or just pick up another FE game? Or are they just different and one isn't necessarily deeper than the other?

Advance Wars is much deeper than Fire Emblem.

It depends on what you like in FE. If you like customizing your characters and working with the RPG stats, then AW doesn't have that. And that's why AW is a better strategy game. The RPG elements in FE change the way the game is designed from the core. If you really like strategic, dynamic, deep gameplay that involves the very careful positioning of your units in an ever shifting battle state, then you'll love AW. Pick up Days of Ruin.

 

[Emarv]

I actually really like a lot of the changes in Days of Ruin. I'm not saying I'd want them to stay forever, but some of the new units were pretty cool.

Also, the game plays FAST. Like, way faster than 1 & 2 ever did (never played Dual Strike).

 

[patapuf]

my favourite of all advance wars games. No broken KO powers (in fact the change of the KO system is the best change they made), best unit balance and online MP!

The only thing it lagged behind the others was content. There were warroom maps but nowhere near as many as in the old games.

i didn't really mind the tonal change as i mostly skipped the story and the combat animations anyway.

 

[Emarv]

I have never played an Advance Wars game. I have read its a simplified version of Fire Emblem - is that the case? If I love Awakening should I try AW or just pick up another FE game? Or are they just different and one isn't necessarily deeper than the other?

They're pretty different. Building units vs Leveling up units. I wouldn't call one inherently deeper than the other.

God, IS should make a new Advance Wars.

 

[Tiktaalik]

This one has the best, most balanced gameplay. It's a fantastic game overall.

One negative is that the graphics are bizarrely much worse than the last title.

With the success of Fire Emblem I'm hoping Intelligent Systems doesn't just jump right into another Fire Emblem followup. I'd really like to see them use that new 3DS Fire Emblem engine to power a new Advance Wars title.

 

[DonMigs85]

Lin and Tasha were hot

 

[Tiktaalik]

The lack of War Room was bizarre and I recall this caused a lot of controversy when this game got its original OT on GAF. It's likely that the developers dropped it to build the online mode (which a ton of people had been asking for). Normally a game wouldn't drop such a major feature to add a new one, but Advance Wars isn't the most popular IP Nintendo has, and I bet the title was made by a pretty small team.

 

[MuddyDonut]

I just want another one with the same love and care put into FE:A.
IS pls

 

[Shig]

I seriously have no idea what people are bellyaching about when they say there's no War Room.

Boot game -> Single DS Play -> Free Battle

There's over 100 premade maps waiting to be played there. How is that not the War Room?

 

[patapuf]

I seriously have no idea what people are bellyaching about when they say there's no War Room.

Boot game -> Single DS Play -> Free Battle

There's over 100 premade maps waiting to be played there. How is that not the War Room?

I agree, but overall there is less content than in DS, which was packed.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I seriously have no idea what people are bellyaching about when they say there's no War Room.

Boot game -> Single DS Play -> Free Battle

There's over 100 premade maps waiting to be played there. How is that not the War Room?

I know that exists, but does it save your rankings and whatnot? The War Room isn't just about playing a skirmish against the CPU.

 

[FStop7]

Dat soundtrack

Will's theme (We Will Prevail)

*rockout*

 

[KirbyKid]

I seriously have no idea what people are bellyaching about when they say there's no War Room.

Boot game -> Single DS Play -> Free Battle

There's over 100 premade maps waiting to be played there. How is that not the War Room?

True that.

I know that exists, but does it save your rankings and whatnot? The War Room isn't just about playing a skirmish against the CPU.

If you want to go for rankings/score, the extra missions in the campaign are where it's at. Get 300+ score on those for a real challenge. Get 400+ and now we're talking.

 

[Shaffield]

as a guy who puts Dual Strike in my top 10 games of all time on any platform, this game kinda burned me.
i really didn't appreciate them completely gutting all the settings and characters that had been around and built up over the 3 previous games. they went post-apocalyptic just for the hell of it - there was no real strategic gameplay additions (a couple features removed, a couple added) and the story was so-so anyways, so all they really did was reskin Dual Strike with a coat of gray and brown.

Dual Strike just had this style to it that they changed in DoR.
the music and menus of that game defined the DS for me, back in 05-06 when i had just gotten the system.
watch the intro and you'll know what i mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7OIe-HnbR8

also, my friends and i played multiplayer Combat mode through Download Play for hours and hours, so taking that out was disappointing as well.

its not a bad game i guess, but as a huge long-time fan of the series, and as a follow up to my favorite strategy game of all time, i really disliked it.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

One of my top 10 games ever. I've spent around 200 hours on it in single-player alone. No joke. Looking back on it I'm almost stunned myself. I've played this for far longer than any other single-player game I've ever played. It just never gets boring. Perfect game to play on the go to; I love how you can just save and turn off at any time and the continue right where you left off.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

I seriously have no idea what people are bellyaching about when they say there's no War Room.

Boot game -> Single DS Play -> Free Battle

There's over 100 premade maps waiting to be played there. How is that not the War Room?

No leaderboards or even a point system in Free Battle. Trial missions have point values but no leaderboards nor the option to use different COs.

 

[patapuf]

as a guy who puts Dual Strike in my top 10 games of all time on any platform, this game kinda burned me.
i really didn't appreciate them completely gutting all the settings and characters that had been around and built up over the 3 previous games. they went post-apocalyptic just for the hell of it - there was no real strategic gameplay additions (a couple features removed, a couple added) and the story was so-so anyways, so all they really did was reskin Dual Strike with a coat of gray and brown.

Dual Strike just had this style to it that they changed in DoR.
the music and menus of that game defined the DS for me, back in 05-06 when i had just gotten the system.
watch the intro and you'll know what i mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7OIe-HnbR8

also, my friends and i played multiplayer Combat mode through Download Play for hours and hours, so taking that out was disappointing as well.

its not a bad game i guess, but as a huge long-time fan of the series, and as a follow up to my favorite strategy game of all time, i really disliked it.

That's not true at all. The new KO system changes a lot and it adds quite a bit of depth. The Superpower system of DS was stupid and the powers were unbalanced (eagles was particularily broken).

Also they totally redid how naval battles worked and changed how every ship exept submarines worked. Sea battles were actually fun in days of ruin, a first in the series imo.

lastly the anti-tank canon and the removal of Neotanks got rid of braindead tankspam.

gameplay wise DoR was the best one by far imo.

No leaderboards or even a point system in Free Battle. Trial missions have point values but no leaderboards nor the option to use different COs.

that depends on the trial missions iirc. You could in some, and in others you couldn't.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

There are some new units (I love the bike, great for occupying buildings) and terrain but the level system is a bit useless. Level ups seem to have a very small effect on stats. Haven't gotten CO powers yet but I've heard that they aren't as powerful as in the previous entries.

One of the strong points of DoR is that they rebalanced the multiplayer aspect of it. The levelups are meant to discourage infantry/mech spam since sending hordes of soldiers to their death is going to strengthen the opposition via those level-ups. Granted, infantry/mech spam is still good but it's not as ridiculous as in previous games.

Toning down the CO powers (and getting rid of day-to-day bonuses) was also done for balancing purposes but it also made the COs feel generic at times. I hope in future AW games, they can achieve a semblance of balance without making the COs too similar to one another.

that depends on the trial missions iirc. You could in some, and in others you couldn't.

There are different COs for different trial missions, yes. But for a particular trial mission, you always used the same CO. Tackling the same War Room map with a different CO to try out different strategies gave the earlier games more replay value.

 

[Kazerei]

I can understand why people might not like this game. Aesthetically, it's sort of ugly and bland. But I'm glad they decided to shake things up a bit, and the gameplay is simply the best.

 

[nacimento]

A lot worse than Dual Strike. So much less content than DS... Still great though; Intelligent Systems is Nintendo's best developer IMO

 

[Shaffield]

That's not true at all. The new KO system changes a lot and it adds quite a bit of depth. The Superpower system of DS was stupid and the powers were unbalanced (eagles was particularily broken).

Also they totally redid how naval battles worked and changed how every ship exept submarines worked. Sea battles were actually fun in days of ruin, a first in the series imo.

lastly the anti-tank canon and the removal of Neotanks got rid of braindead tankspam.

gameplay wise DoR was the best one by far imo.

well as i said - a couple features added, a couple removed. obviously its just a matter of preference.
personally, i loved the CO/SuperCo/Tag Powers in DS and the strategy involved with preparing for them and setting them up went way more in-depth than you're giving it credit for.
Eagle's was pretty scary, yeah, but so was Sami's and Kanbei's and Lash's and Nell's etc.
my most used combination was Sonja/Lash, and their Powers were so specific and situational that there was a certain level of strategy required to make them useful. there was just more diversity and opportunity to experiment with CO combinations.

i played competitively with several friends, and i always found it to be a looming, stressful threat that you would have to brace for every five or six turns, while at the same time staying prepared enough to launch an effective response.
the Super Powers and Tags were the Ultra Combos of the game.


also, if you ever made it through the Hard Campaign, i'm sure you realized that tank spam and COPower spam aren't exactly trump cards.


of course, this is all just ramblings from a guy who fell head over heels for Dual Strike and still plays all the time. its the one game that i will defend with my life

 

[kittens]

It's an incredible game, but the lack of a War Room is baffling. I think it's heads and shoulders above Dual Strike, but DS is the one I go back to simply because of the War Room.

Yeah, I agree.

 

[Shig]

A lot worse than Dual Strike.

Nah. Sure I like DS's art direction a lot better, but in the battle between a hilariously broken game and a really well-balanced one, I'm gonna award the point to the balanced one.

So much less content than DS...

Insofar as DS has 400 hours of content and DoR has 'only' 300, I guess. It's hard to imagine a percent of a percent of a percent of the people that played them got anywhere near exhausting the content offered in either one. So effectively the critique boils down to 'Hey, it doesn't take as long to scroll through this game's list of content I'll almost certainly never play than it does to scroll through that one's!'

 

[The Return of]

I am glad to see love for this game. Everytime i seen people talk about they only seem to dislike it cause of the new artstyle. It's my favorite behind the first.

 

[KirbyKid]

That's not true at all. The new KO system changes a lot and it adds quite a bit of depth. The Superpower system of DS was stupid and the powers were unbalanced (eagles was particularily broken).

Also they totally redid how naval battles worked and changed how every ship exept submarines worked. Sea battles were actually fun in days of ruin, a first in the series imo.

lastly the anti-tank canon and the removal of Neotanks got rid of braindead tankspam.

gameplay wise DoR was the best one by far imo.

Great gameplay details. You know what's up.

One of the strong points of DoR is that they rebalanced the multiplayer aspect of it. The levelups are meant to discourage infantry/mech spam since sending hordes of soldiers to their death is going to strengthen the opposition via those level-ups. Granted, infantry/mech spam is still good but it's not as ridiculous as in previous games.

This is good too.

I can understand why people might not like this game. Aesthetically, it's sort of ugly and bland. But I'm glad they decided to shake things up a bit, and the gameplay is simply the best.

It's a neat looking game. I like the characters and the color scheme. Can't be super colorful for every game in the series.

But the real issue is that some people play games for story, characters, and charm and have little to say or appreciate about real gameplay details.

well as i said - a couple features added, a couple removed. obviously its just a matter of preference.
personally, i loved the CO/SuperCo/Tag Powers in DS and the strategy involved with preparing for them and setting them up went way more in-depth than you're giving it credit for.
Eagle's was pretty scary, yeah, but so was Sami's and Kanbei's and Lash's and Nell's etc.
my most used combination was Sonja/Lash, and their Powers were so specific and situational that there was a certain level of strategy required to make them useful. there was just more diversity and opportunity to experiment with CO combinations.

i played competitively with several friends, and i always found it to be a looming, stressful threat that you would have to brace for every five or six turns, while at the same time staying prepared enough to launch an effective response.
the Super Powers and Tags were the Ultra Combos of the game.


also, if you ever made it through the Hard Campaign, i'm sure you realized that tank spam and COPower spam aren't exactly trump cards.


of course, this is all just ramblings from a guy who fell head over heels for Dual Strike and still plays all the time. its the one game that i will defend with my life

I like the details you mention here. But the topics of balance and variety and design space are much bigger than you're covering here. Dual Strike wrecked a lot of the quality strategy gameplay features of AW to trade for leveling up, over powered CO abilities, and other perks.

And that real time battle mode for Dual Strike stinks. I played it sooo much and it stinks. The challenge maps focused on converving money, time, (I forget the last one) are pretty sweet, but the openness of CO choice works against the tight design.

 

[Kinyou]

I don't think the series has a future, unfortunately.

Yeah, for some weird reason do Advance Wars games barely sell in Japan.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I find the level system very useful. In the old games, people would simply rush you with weak units until your defenses fell. In DoR, attempting to do that merely results in your opponent getting more powerful units.

And I love the music, too. Coincidentally, I was listening to soundtracks from it when I saw this thread.