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LTTP: Arkham Knight - Good game, but feels less true to Batman

Veelk

Banned
Man, Arkham Knight was a mixed, mixed bag. Various aspects of it have me disappointed, impressed, frustrated and happy. I am a HUGE Batman fan, so the Arkham series has had a special place in my heart for Rocksteady for making not just a good game, but a real Batman experience. There is a distinction between those two terms that drive how I view the franchise. So let me first give an overview of my experience with the games:

I considerd Arkham Asylum was a guaranteed failure in the making, bastardizing the franchise for a quick cash grab...until I played it and fell in love. It was a love letter to Batman and Batman fans AND a good game at the same time. Now, I use the word 'good' specifically, because I would have said it was great before. But the truth is much of it is outdated. The infamously awful bosses are just one part. There are criticisms of the gameplay being a rhythmic masher that I disagree with, but I feel it can be fairly said about Asylum, as this was the time before you could use gadgets and before the stun button had a real function (Though, in fairness, Batman's gameplay here was the first of it's kind, so roughness is to be expected). It's puzzles were adequate, but not especially refined. So I have to say that much of it's greatness comes not from any one particularly great mechanic, but how they came together in a package. Batman fights in an impactful, but quasi-realistic fashion, using all sorts of gadgets to solve puzzles, and exists in this dark, surreal world of colorful and insane villains. It was merely a good game, but a fantastic Batman experience. The love of the Batman mythos is present in every facet of this creation. There is a LOT that they simply didn't have to do. They didn't have to give each character their own small death screen for when you died. They didn't have to give interview tapes and expansions on the backstory that is filled with comic book history. They didn't have to give attention to villains that don't even appear in the story, but they do. That's, at it's core, what makes Asylum great, because it's just a condensed experience and appreciation for Batman.

Then Arkham City came out and essentially did everything better. The love and craft of the story were still there, but now you had a much larger everything to work with. Your arsenal was expanded and now you could bring them into the fight, which made the combat far more multilayered and complex than it was before. They improved the gliding, and the improved manueverability helped deepen the game further in terms of how you planned things out nad how you approached a situation. And the love that was present in Asylum was still there, lovingly paying attention to all the small details of the character. The only major criticism I have of it is the story, which takes a very disappointing turn about halfway through, and I greatly disapprove how they handled the Ra's al Ghul plot (It kind of astounds me they don't give a reason why he considers Batman to be a worthier successor over his own daughter, or explore how Talia feels about that arrangement) in particular, and Batman acting like a dick for no reason was also dumb. I feel many of you would say the real flaw of Arkham City is the sandbox overworld that 'wrecked' the pacing, but this simply isn't true. For one, Asylum had it's own pacing issues, it was just such a shorter game that most people don't remember that the game literally stops and pushes busywork on you for no reason halfway through. For another, the world was designed to be relatively small for the amount of content that was condensed in any given area, which I felt they did very well. The atmosphere was still strong too, with various recognizable buildings and landmarks that often were signatured by various supervillains, giving the whole world a very unique feel. For me, this is the best arkham game thus far.

Arkham Origins is somewhat of a black sheep for me, and I don't feel it's particularly useful discussing it in too much depth. Origins was okay, the worst Arkham game for me, but still decent, mostly redeemed by the best storyline and acting in the franchise. So, with all that said: Arkham Knight. I feel there are 2 main parts to discuss, the story and the gameplay and the Batman experience.

Playing as Batman on it's most basic level is a further refinement of what we got in Arkham, though it is in the way of disempowerment for balance purposes. Batman is given smoother and faster attack animations, with more combat options on the table, more enemy types to fight against, and just a general smoother experience. I feel if I went back to play City right now, it might not be hard to get back into because it'd be a simpler experience, but much of the ferocity and satisfaction of the new one would be lost. So Batman got upgraded as he typically does, and playing him on a basic level is as satisfying as always. I feel your milage may vary in how much you like the changes they made to the gadgets. For me, for whatever reason, it was very difficult to get used to, especially the explosive gel which used to be my best friend, is now just a small dust cloud that gets in enemies eyes. Probably for the better in terms of balance, but still. The big improvements I felt were the predator sections, where you got a great deal more options with the fear multitake downs and voice synthesizer and hacking device that lets you fuck with enemies, which is how I always like to do things. That said, I'm taken back by how they copied everything from Asylum. The voice synthesizer is the only new gadget you get, and while they did rework how a lot of them worked (especially the hacking device), I had expected atleast 4 actually new gadgets, even if they fulfilled a similar purpose as some gadgets before. This is a worrying lack of creativity on Rocksteady's part, tbh, who are usually great at mixing things up. Still, the base gameplay is as satisfying as ever, just lacking in how they shook things up this time around.

The Batmobile has been the biggest draw and controversial piece of the product ever since it was first announced. Having played it myself, I find myself arriving at the ambivalent conclusion of "It's fantastic and I wish I had seen it less" Make no mistake, the Batmobile works very well within the game world. I'm honestly impressed with how they made it a lightning fast tank. It's satisfying to drive, it's fast, it's very useful, and highly versatile. You can use it to race, fight, solve puzzles, and even sneak(!). That last one I actually think is absurd in terms of the context in the world, but it's a testament to how much effort they put into making this a well integrated part of the world. Yet it simply wasn't enough. I've had a lot of difficulty pinpointing exactly why that is, because I don't want it to simply be erased from the game, because it IS a good addition with more depth than I was expecting. However, think of your average on foot fight encounter, and you realize that you have a wealth of options between sneaking, fighting, using gadgets, using environment, and all the depth and intricacies everything that offers. With the Batmobile, you're options are significantly more limited and that's what kills it. Despite it having more depth than you'd expect it to, it's significantly less deep than playing as Batman on foot. Offensively, you can shoot one of two guns or ram enemies. Every drone has essentially one directive "Spot and shoot", which they do the same way regardless of what you do. The only distinction in fighting them is the enemy types and the environment, which you can use to hide from enemy fire sometimes. There were times where I was all for a chase scene or drone fight and those were fun, but there were a lot more times where I wanted to just have the section be done and over with. Overall, I actually think I have more negative feelings on the Batmobile than positive. Rocksteady was clearly proud of it's efforts here, and they should be, but the vehicle is simply over emphasized and a drag to the experience too often. There are also some encounters with this that are, putting it plainly, not well designed. One AR mission had me in a circle where one hit killed me instantly, and I felt how I did was pure luck, because my scores could vary from lasting under a minute to getting 5 minutes (of the 6 required to get 3 stars) without doing anything notably differently. I fucking HATE the heat seeking missile drones so damn much too. Not to mention the physics of the thing seemed a little inconsistent to me. The Cobra drones were by far the worst designed enemy for it. They are extremely annoying to approach, the distraction upgrade I had worked maybe 50% of the time, and the lockon feature the Batmobile has is the most frustrating thing in the game, both against Cobras and the APC's. If they turn 45 degrees, you can lose your whole shot, even though you don't need to lock on because you're looking right at the point you want to shoot. Very very bad design regarding that.

Now, the world itself. To be clear, when I say 'the game world', I don't mean just the environment, but how you interact with it. Now, going back to the City issue of pacing, as I explained, I feel City is paced perfectly and the complaints of the game world being too large and full of filler simply don't ring true. Knight, however, is too large and full of filler. Arkham City was designed around 1 mode of transportation and they place the size of the city so that even end to end, it only takes you a few minutes to fly there without any hiccups. Knight, on the other hand, has that nettling Batmobile problem, so they have to make it large enough for that AND make it glide-able, which they only partially suceeded. Driving the Batmobile through the city is fun when I feel like doing just that, but I usually prefer to glide my way through, which takes just enough for me to start thinking "Are we there yet" before arriving, even with the fully upgraded grapple launcher. I'd get there faster in the car, but I don't like having to navigate around buildings and pillars when I can just fly over them instead, especially when there's plenty of stuff up top I could miss. But then that leaves me just sitting back and holding X as batman gently descends down ever so slowly. It's not a perfect fit for either, which slightly damages how you move through the city. But as far as pacing goes, it's the side mission design is...bad. Now, let me put up a disclaimer that I burned through the game in 3 8+ hour long sessions, so the main missions and the side missions kind of blur into one another for me at this point. However, even so, the side missions themselves are worthy of criticism. THey vary the degree to which they mix things up, but they are far too repetitive and far too many of them. Between the checkpoints, the explosive devices, APC chases, and watch towers, there are like 80 missions of doing 4 things. The APC chases are infuriating in particular because I didn't notice any significant gameplay design variation in any of them, while all the others shook it up a bit, but not enough. And I've already mentioned how the Batmobile doesn't have enough depth and variation to warrant several dozen of the same style fights I get in the main campaign anyway. I wouldn't have cared if they didn't have THAT many of them, but the amount they had was ridiculous, with no real gain except upgrade points. The Penguin side missions plays out essentially the same way every mission you take other than enemy placement. Same with the Twoface mission. The Manbat mission isn't even a fight of any kind, its just a matter if you happen to spot it. But if you think City was just as bad, let me disprove that by pointing out how the Riddler missions were spaced out between the two. With City, you're incentivized to keep collecting trophies because that will unlock the next big riddler puzzle. The number of trophies is overwhelming, but not if you are only collecting them to get to the next Riddler sequence, which is essentially just rewarding you for what your doing in small chunks. You do this on and off with the main campaign, and you will be able to get more trophies as you get more gadgets, which lets you get the next chunk. I've collected all the riddler trophies in City twice because of this. In Knight, you have no incentive at all to collect them other than general completionist tendencies. The riddle side mission is about whether you can get to his headquarters where he's holding catwoman. I try to do side missions as they become available, so at 15% of the game, I had 2 of the big riddler sequences done, then I had to wait until I got mroe than 50% of the game before I could do the next one and finish it, at which point riddler just goes "Okay, now find the rest of the trophies to fight me!" currently have 70 something of over 230 trophies. I'm less than 1/3 and I've been collecting them as I went along. Now, having beaten the game, I have no inclination to get these things. This is bad pacing, first giving me no small incentives through the campaign and just dumping this huge one on me for a relatively small reward (capturing Riddler).

I should note that I didn't find the repetitive nature to be the case in the main campaign, which mixed things up well as it went along from what I remember. Well, other htan the Batmobile sections, but I already said that was an mechanical issue. What I'm disappointed by is the lack of real boss fights. Even boss fights weren't boss fights. At the end of the military missions, Deathstroke is in a cheap knock off of the tank the Arkham Knight used, rather than a boss fight in his own way. The Manbat isn't a fight at all, two face and penguin weren't different from average goons, you don't fight firefly, just chase him around, Hush is a QTE....You might be saying that these are all side missions, ubt the main mission doesn't have us fighting Arkham Knight proper either. The climax of his fight is an elaborate predator sequence where he uses a sniper. The only boss fight that really appears is vehicular ones, unfortunately, and big Al in the Harley Quinn section.

Story-wise, I'm not really that happy with it, but that's par for course with the arkham series, which I feel drops the ball story wise in every game. Still, this failure is unique in that it's based in lack of good character motivation. They have Scarecrow taking on the role of Joker, but the issue with that is that Scarecrow isn't insane the same way that Joker was. I didn't get why Scarecrow was doing what he was doing. He seemed to have a point to prove to Batman, but it's never really clear what that is. He's just obsessed with fear, going on rants that flat out contradict what is going on. He's pissed off that Batman doesn't know what fear is while insisting that he's afraid within while also ranting about how he's going to make Batman fear more. Fear fear fear, christ. There's nothing more to it, really. And the Arkham Knight is the same, being a bundle of angry rants that can one moment respect Batman while the next saying he's weak and an old man. I feel there needs to be some law made out to stop character motivations from being displaced anger. Literally every character is blames everything on Batman regardless of where responsibility truly lies. Scarecrow blames Batman for making his villains, Arkham Knight blames Batman for what
the Joker
did, Jim Gordon blames Batman for Barbara being kidnapped, Batman blames himself for Barbara dying from Scarecrows fear toxin. I'm sure somewhere outthere is a villain origin story where a guy tripped over a rock and blamed Batman for it. It's such an annoying story telling mechanic at this point because it makes the conflict artificial since the reasons for why the two characters are in conflict are misguided and wrong. Every character has some variant of this kind asinine motivation where they seem barely in touch with reality. Some of these are intentional, obviously, like Joker blaming Batman for intentionally dropping the cure, but once you see deathstroke being simultaneously offended and respectful at batman beating him, you realize that this isn't dependent on the stability of the character but simply the writer seemingly incapable of finding motivation for a character than "They blame batman for [fill in the blank]", regardless of how little sense it actually makes.

One thing I never really understood is why it became the 'arkham' series. The first game was based on a comic that takes place in the Arkham Asylum, which the first game did as well. Arkham City, on the other hand, was more based on the No Man's Land story arc that had Gotham ruined and abandoned. From there, I never felt Arkham City actually made sense, but I was willing to role with it. Arkham Origins had nothing to do with Arkham whatsoever and now Arkham Knight has no reason to not be called
"Red Hood" except for the fact that if they had gone with that, fans would have instantly known who he was and what motivation he had. Which would have been better, in my mind, because the story would have played out better if Batman had to actively struggle against fighting his former sidekick than him finding about it in the last piece of the game.
That's the big problem, I feel, it saves most of the development for the last part of the storyline, and only Scarecrow and the Arkham Knight are the major players of the storyline. I had big issues with Arkham City, but one thing I respected was how they went about giving each villain their own agency in the game. Twoface, Penguin, Joker, Strange, and Ra's were all out to get something on their own, and that was cool to see, even if it wasn't as well executed as it could have been. Here, the only major players are the aforementioned two, and everyone else comes off a bit like fanservice. Still, on the other hand, the Joker was a complete delight beginning to end. While he had the best storyline in Origins, his jokes here are better than anywhere else. I died during the song part.

I should also mention that the believability of the world has been forever abandoned. I thought Arkham City was absurdly impossible, and it is, but the premise of the story of AK is that: Most citizens of Gotham City have left and yet Scarecrow wants to unleash his gas. Obstensively, the only people in the city are the thugs working for him, and they're all basically enthusiastic about the whole thing happening, seemingly aware of the two individual facts that the gas is going to drive everyone in gotham crazy and that they're the only ones in gotham, but unable to put them together. The fact that this is basically allowed by the government isn't handwaved away as the government being influenced by other large forces like Ra's organization did in City. And then there is the Batmobile. They try to keep Batman's no kill rule, so they have the thing being able to plow through concrete, yet when apparently thugs survive getting hit and shot by the thing. They try to justify it by saying it electricutes thugs before they get hit by it, and use 'nonlethal rounds', but they also have me firing MISSILES into ordinary cares, or just crashing into them. And for some reason, every drone you fight is unmanned...somehow. Hell, if the Arkham Knight knows about Batman's rule, he should just do what he did with the suicide vest guy (who strangely only appears once when it could have made an interesting gmae mechanic for predator sections. Weird.) and man the drones, so Batman can't do anything to them. It's just...impossible for me to take and believe that Batman's freakin war machine can reliably cause no deaths, even with comic book logic involved. I also don't fully believe that no one would care about the hundreds of thousands be's doing in damages every time he decides he wants to literally drive though a parking lot. Again, I fully acknowledge that the series has given little heed to believability of the world, but this is on another level.


So did I enjoy the game? Despite all my bitching, I did, actually, yes. But I no longer feel like Batman the same way I did with the other two games. I'm usually on the side that says Batman should be realistic, but in videogames, I appreciate the games more when they embrace the comic book craziness. Fighting thugs that allied themselves to a villain is far more interesting than fighting these militia guys. And the Batmobile has unfortunately turned a good portion of the game into a type of third person shooter, which isn't something I ever really saw Batman doing. The lack of other villains playing a major part made the city feel devoid of the typical atmosphere that was present in Asylum and City. Not completely, maybe, but enough that I felt I was in "Generic American City" way too often, rather than in Gotham where the crazy run wild. And I think that's the crux of why I don't feel as hot about this one as I did others. It's the opposite of what Asylum accomplished, being a really good game, but not as good a Batman experience.
 
I skimmed for now, but while I get where you're coming from, no game has been truer to Batman, honestly. Thing is, there are so many interpretations of the character that the game is paying homage to.
 

udivision

Member
Playing Origns during a playthrough of Knight (waiting for the patch)...

...like... How come Batman in Knight never emotionally reacts to anything? Maybe you can say he's older and more composed, but the stuff he goes through in Knight needs some of the Origin-level emotion I feel.

It just makes it seem like Batman's playing through a game or something and he doesn't really care.
 

Slixshot

Banned
You know, a lot of people seem to be upset with the Batmobile changing the gameplay too much, but like... when was the last time you saw a game franchise as large as Batman implement something literally so gamechanging? Like look at the annualized franchises or even those which come out even less frequently. More of the same over and over! But Rocksteady was like "fuck it" and went all out with the Batmobile while retaining a LOT of the good stuff from the previous games.

This game got great reviews but a ton of backlash around here (from the threads I had read) with the Batmobile being either love or hate. But you can't deny that it's impressive that they would add such a large new mechanic to such a large franchise.

Playing Origns during a playthrough of Knight (waiting for the patch)...

...like... How come Batman in Knight never emotionally reacts to anything? Maybe you can say he's older and more composed, but the stuff he goes through in Knight needs some of the Origin-level emotion I feel.

It just makes it seem like Batman's playing through a game or something and he doesn't really care.

Kevin Conroy vs Roger Craig Smith. Conroy has been playing the same batman for well over a decade and doesn't know much else. RCS got to put his own spin on it and I LOVED it.
 

ta155

Member
I actually think this game makes you feel more like Batman than ever, but it does come across as Batman's Greatest Hits rather than something more cohesive like the prior games.

Also don't understand the mad love of Origins around here, never have and never will.
 

kodecraft

Member
Playing Origns during a playthrough of Knight (waiting for the patch)...

...like... How come Batman in Knight never emotionally reacts to anything? Maybe you can say he's older and more composed, but the stuff he goes through in Knight needs some of the Origin-level emotion I feel.

It just makes it seem like Batman's playing through a game or something and he doesn't really care.

Man...I've been saying this! I would have loved for Roger Craig's Smith's Batman to kick ass in Knight.

Alot of posters here scream 'oh that's a young Batman, he supposed to be emotional and rough around the edges' which is just bs to justify the nostalgia thay have for Conroy.
 

BouncyFrag

Member
I stopped my ng+ run after getting sick of the Riddler trophies (89 out of 243 completed) to unlock that ending and the heavy amount of tank play. I did find the content with Batman's
new imaginary friend
to be brilliant. I replayed Origins after AK and other than the counter mechanic not as smooth with the more aggressive baddies, I had a lot more fun.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Im only just getting to the end of Arkham Knight due to not having much gaming time in recent months.

I'm torn. I'm enjoying it a hell of a lot, the visuals are impressing me and I'm liking the Batmobile...but. I cant help but feel I would have loved it more if it had a bit more focus. Too many sidequests that I don't want to chase up and far too many Riddler challenges. I feel that developers in the fight to be able to say 'we boast a huge X amount of hours of game' are crippling their titles under bloat.

I understand people want value for money and get lost in content, but I feel with AK less would have been more for me personally. Tighter focus on the main quest and a bit more variety on the sidequests that did make the cut and it would easily have been in my top 3 of the year.
 
Never been so dissapointed with a videogame in my life as with Arkham Knight. The scale of the game is larger than it previously was but it all feels too small when there are
no actual boss fights, no indoor exploration, no cool use of Batman's gadgets.
. And for the record, I love the way the Batmobile feels and looks.

Thank God the Limited Edition was out of stock when I purchased the game or I'd be pissed.
 

SRTtoZ

Member
Game was amazing. My only complaints would be to have the Batmobile be more optional. It was very fun to use, I just didn't like to be forced to use it. Secondly, less but more interesting Riddler trophies. I liked the ones that were mini puzzles but couldn't stand the basic hidden ones. I'd rate it a 9/10 and a great conclusion to one of my all time favorite series minus Origins.
 
I'd summarize the entire experience of Arkham Knight as "The Highest Highs and Lowest Lows" of the franchise. When it's firing on all cylinders, the Batman franchise has never been better. When it fumbles, it does so in excruciatingly terrible ways, to the point that there are sequences where I really wish I had been playing another game. At times it makes exquisite use of its source material, while at other times, wastes huge opportunities and reduces them to meaningless filler. The game is all over the map, ending up as an overall mediocre experience. And this is from someone who deeply loves the franchise.
 
Im only just getting to the end of Arkham Knight due to not having much gaming time in recent months.

I'm torn. I'm enjoying it a hell of a lot, the visuals are impressing me and I'm liking the Batmobile...but. I cant help but feel I would have loved it more if it had a bit more focus. Too many sidequests that I don't want to chase up and far too many Riddler challenges. I feel that developers in the fight to be able to say 'we boast a huge X amount of hours of game' are crippling their titles under bloat.

I understand people want value for money and get lost in content, but I feel with AK less would have been more for me personally. Tighter focus on the main quest and a bit more variety on the sidequests that did make the cut and it would easily have been in my top 3 of the year.

The Riddler Trophies were over done but I wish there was more actual side quests, they kind of suck. They're all "do this one thing at different spots several times". They feel like afterthoughts.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
The Riddler Trophies were over done but I wish there was more actual side quests, they kind of suck. They're all "do this one thing at different spots several times". They feel like afterthoughts.

That's what I was implying - more variety instead of 'go fight the tanks' again for the thousandth time
 

silva1991

Member
It's a disappointing Arkham game sadly.not a single real boss fight ffs.

and Batman felt like a death machine with his car killing anyone standing on his way.

fun game,but lacking and a mediocre Arkham game. a solid 7/10 at best.
 

Veelk

Banned
I skimmed for now, but while I get where you're coming from, no game has been truer to Batman, honestly. Thing is, there are so many interpretations of the character that the game is paying homage to.

How do you reason that? When I say true batman experience, i am not counting the references that appear. What I mean is how the game is designed around making X feel like an authentic Gotham property. For example, nearly every building in Gotham is a reference to some Gotham area or another. They don't need to be referencing any particular story, but the fact that it's an object that uniquely batman is significant. There seem to be a lot less marks like that in Knight. Peridon bridge, or whatever, could be in essentially any american city. This is because the Batman villains haven't taken over the area ala Arkham City so much as they are just left with that part of town, but the effect is still "I'm in a generic city environment' rather than "I am in a Batman environment" To me, that was a significant part of what made City great.
 
i skimmed your post. i agreed with what i read. also, i thought about it and i realized most of the people who wanted the batmobile in the first place probably don't even read the modern comics. that thing barely ever shows up. the only time in new 52 that i remember it showing up was once in zero year as an early prototype and once in batman eternal where it gets destroyed by the police. that's it.

edit: actually it shows up a few times in eternal now that i think about it. that time where he passes pyg's lab blowing up, that time where spoiler uses him to take out the asssassin after her, etc.

i also feel like they pushed that thing real hard because otherwise it would be hard to justify it being such a big part of the game--if you only used it to get from place to place like it would ideally be, why even include it in the game at all? people can already glide (and really the comics have pretty much realized this and don't bother with the car for a reason).
 

Astral Dog

Member
I like that Scarecrow got his time to shine, while The Joker its always awesome, it was getting tiring how he was behind the plot in every Arkham game, even here, but more as a secondary antagonist
and final boss

Now, the plot never makes any sense and its not as well constructed as the last games, i blame the change of writer, but still feels like a fresh enough storyline for Batman.

And yes Scarecrow could have been better,and the plot with the city is ridiculous, but still its a stept in the right direction for letting other villains shine in awhile imo. i liked Poison Ivys role on the game.
 
How do you reason that? When I say true batman experience, i am not counting the references that appear. What I mean is how the game is designed around making X feel like an authentic Gotham property. For example, nearly every building in Gotham is a reference to some Gotham area or another. They don't need to be referencing any particular story, but the fact that it's an object that uniquely batman is significant. There seem to be a lot less marks like that in Knight. Peridon bridge, or whatever, could be in essentially any american city. This is because the Batman villains haven't taken over the area ala Arkham City so much as they are just left with that part of town, but the effect is still "I'm in a generic city environment' rather than "I am in a Batman environment" To me, that was a significant part of what made City great.

Every facet of gameplay, every action the player can perform is either directly lifted from other Batman media (inverted takedowns = "here" scene from Batman Begins, remote control batarang is from Batman Begins, etc.) or feels appropriate (e.g. fear takedowns). It's daunting to even begin to think up the list of everything that simply nails what it should be like to play as Batman, let alone where those influences came from and how exceptionally well Knight emulates them. The Batmobileis the Tumbler (overall military R&D vibe) fused with the Burtonmobile (afterburner + careening through city streets) plus the TDKReturns riot tank in in function as well as aesthetically. You play as Batman the martial artist, the ninja, the horror movie villain, the technologist, the strategist, sometimes all in one scenario. You have a plot lines that are dark/twisted, you have scenarios that would almost fit in a 60s Batman episode. I could really go on for a long while, and I've even attempted doing something similar for Arkham City and thought it was daunting then too. Even when this series' games don't come together perfectly, they have all the makings of a perfect Batman game, certainly the best so far.

The city's design still evokes what I think of when I think of Gotham, though it'll be a long time before a game can fully embody it. Generic perhaps in the sense that there's little that's iconic quite like Arkham Asylum (though that only needed one iconic locale) or Arkham City — those could pile on the references every few feet because the areas were relatively small and compact. Even with the past games though, they are mostly brand new interpretations of existing elements of the Batman mythos. Knight is the same, just with all of Gotham. It's a mishmash of architecture as Gotham should be. It doesn't need to have specific locations from the mythos so much as it needs to feel like Gotham. More importantly, it serves a playground for all of the player's abilities, and it serves that purpose very well.
 

batrush

Member
It is a 6/10 game. The combat is the only aspect that redeems it. The level design, the writing, and the way the batmobile is shoehorned into nearly mission bring it way down.
 

Veelk

Banned
Every facet of gameplay, every action the player can perform is either directly lifted from other Batman media (inverted takedowns = "here" scene from Batman Begins, remote control batarang is from Batman Begins, etc.) or feels appropriate (e.g. fear takedowns). It's daunting to even begin to think up the list of everything that simply nails what it should be like to play as Batman, let alone where those influences came from and how exceptionally well Knight emulates them. The Batmobileis the Tumbler (overall military R&D vibe) fused with the Burtonmobile (afterburner + careening through city streets) plus the TDKReturns riot tank in in function as well as aesthetically. You play as Batman the martial artist, the ninja, the horror movie villain, the technologist, the strategist, sometimes all in one scenario. You have a plot lines that are dark/twisted, you have scenarios that would almost fit in a 60s Batman episode. I could really go on for a long while, and I've even attempted doing something similar for Arkham City and thought it was daunting then too. Even when this series' games don't come together perfectly, they have all the makings of a perfect Batman game, certainly the best so far.

The city's design still evokes what I think of when I think of Gotham, though it'll be a long time before a game can fully embody it. Generic perhaps in the sense that there's little that's iconic quite like Arkham Asylum (though that only needed one iconic locale) or Arkham City — those could pile on the references every few feet because the areas were relatively small and compact. Even with the past games though, they are mostly brand new interpretations of existing elements of the Batman mythos. Knight is the same, just with all of Gotham. It's a mishmash of architecture as Gotham should be. It doesn't need to have specific locations from the mythos so much as it needs to feel like Gotham. More importantly, it serves a playground for all of the player's abilities, and it serves that purpose very well.

Well, I don't disagree with teh first paragraph, but how is any of that unique to Arkham Knight? I do agree that it does capture Batman pretty well, just not as well as whats come before it. And I already outlined my issues with the Batmobile turning the game into a third person shooter. It's not the worst thing ever, but when the primary mode of the vehicle is gunplay, it doesn't feel like Batman much. But that's subjective I suppose.

As far as the city....I do agree that it's challenging to make Gotham iconic without the villains spraying their faces everywhere like Arkham City, but maybe that's where Rocksteady should have written up stories for those places somehow. Idk, it's a touch design challenge to be sure, but going to "China Town' just felt like a weak way to create another section of Gotham.

It's still obviously a batman game, I agree, but it's missing something the others had.
 

Slixshot

Banned
It is a 6/10 game. The combat is the only aspect that redeems it. The level design, the writing, and the way the batmobile is shoehorned into nearly mission bring it way down.

I'd give it an 8.5/10. What it does (Batmobile, Combat, Graphics) it does really well. Many people just didn't like the changes (Batmobile included) made from previous games. Story was pretty cool but suffered from mediocre writing and voice acting.
 
I played all of the Arkham games in a row from June (I had played Asylum and parts of City before but that's it) through the end of August, and I have to say I probably rank Arkham Knight at the top. In my opinion it has fantastic pacing in the main story arc (the main story in general is the best in the series and far outstrips say Arkham City, where there is basically a shell of a story that never delivers). I really like the layout of the city of Gotham and the way you can either drive places or grapnel places quickly and have fun doing it (I like it so much it's the only Arkham I completed 100%). I like driving/combat so the Batmobile stuff really didn't bother me at all, and as you get upgrades I think the Batmobile becomes pretty badass at wrecking tons of drones quickly.

Visually, the art in the entire series is tremendous, but the layer of additional graphic effects and quality in AK is really amazing (going from Origins to Arkham Knight was a revelation, the difference is substantial).

I enjoyed most of the side missions, but I can definitely see some flaws in some of them (the repetitiveness of the Penguin/Two-Face stuff for example). I really enjoy the movement/fighting/driving a lot though so it doesn't bother me too much. I will say Rocksteady still can't seem to really get a handle on DLC; I love playing as new characters, but the complete lack of substance is very disappointing.
 
Still of all the games in the trilogy Knight made me feel the most like being a Batman with a beautifully realized world and visuals that just pulls you in. This is easily one of the best looking games of the generation so far. I agree that it was a tad too action oriented at parts and the 'Tank sections were a bit too much towards the end. I did like the ideas they took from Nolan's trilogy and the gameplay and the story kept me on my toes till the end. The gameplay feels the most complex of the three games and it has the most variety. I personally loved Arkham Knight despite the problems and it just might be my favorite of the trilogy or at least tied with the City.
 
Arkham City was my favorite game of the 4. I was really liking Arkham Knight but eventually the story really let me down and the goddamn Batmobile parts killed any fun I had.

Late Game Story Spoiler
I was so happy when that thing blew up, then Batman apparently had a spare!
 
I don't really agree that Knight had a very good representation of Batman story wise. A good way to tell how bad a Batman story is is by how much it makes the World's greatest detective look like a total incompetent idiot.
Batman has magic time rewinding technology and the ability to analyze footage frame by frame yet he somehow bought that Jason Todd was killed by the Joker? He didn't call anyone to pick up Barbara's body or even notice the gas in the room?

Gameplay and narrative just do not line up in this game.
 
Well, I don't disagree with teh first paragraph, but how is any of that unique to Arkham Knight? I do agree that it does capture Batman pretty well, just not as well as whats come before it. And I already outlined my issues with the Batmobile turning the game into a third person shooter. It's not the worst thing ever, but when the primary mode of the vehicle is gunplay, it doesn't feel like Batman much. But that's subjective I suppose.

As far as the city....I do agree that it's challenging to make Gotham iconic without the villains spraying their faces everywhere like Arkham City, but maybe that's where Rocksteady should have written up stories for those places somehow. Idk, it's a touch design challenge to be sure, but going to "China Town' just felt like a weak way to create another section of Gotham.

It's still obviously a batman game, I agree, but it's missing something the others had.

The right balance between Bat-Tank, using it for traversal, using it in tandem with Batman on foot, and using it for spatial puzzles is subjective, which is why I always hoped for more freedom in this series as to how the player can approach a given challenge, something more akin to what MGSV. As far as whether the design of each of those is true to Batman, however, I consider that much less subjective. Going back to how wide a spectrum of types of Batman stories there are (in turn, begetting a fandom that likes Batman for highly varied reasons), no one can truly admonish an overall approach to the character.

You have TDKReturns Batman who cripples enemies, 60s Batman who makes corny puns, and so forth. Before judging whether those "feel right," one has to accept the shifting baseline. If Batman existed in a corny, bright world where terrible puns could be said earnestly with a straight face, would this Batman work? Or would him using shark-repellant be off-putting in some way? In Knight, there's a militia taking over the city in tandem with Scarecrow. Obviously, the tanks are there as a mechanical justification for the Batmobile's capabilities, so what's left is whether Batman blowing them up fits the character. We've seen Batman use explosive weaponry non-lethally in other media. In the Arkham series, he's brutal, reactionary and often straight forward rather than subtle. The tanks are already deployed, and demand quick reaction to their presence. There are missions to take out the militia's infrastructure, so it's not strictly being reactionary, and Batman's having his hand forced when using it. He's always built up as being prepared, so having this stuff in reserve fits. This portrayal of the character isn't even that far from the norm compared to others.

And I have to ask: what is an example of what you were looking for? I couldn't tell you any one defining building, location, district, etc. of Gotham beyond Wayne Tower (of which there are two in Knight), GCPD, Ace Chemicals , and that's about it. While I talked about story/character/presentation above, I feel as if you're letting aesthetics and character take precedent over the gameplay, and all of that really comes second to what it's like playing the game. Each aspect of the game feels like the developers keep in the back of their mind the question of "if Batman were to have to do _____, how would he do it?" Gotham feels like Gotham because the defining only constants for depictions of Gotham are crime and Batman. It feels like Gotham because I can drop from the rooftops among a group of criminals assaulting someone and knock them all down before touching the ground. I can reduce a group of para-military soldiers to panicky, twitchy messes while taking them out one-by-one. I can pull a goon out of a moving, stolen car and flip off of it while it crashes, then knockout the rest after they crawl form the wreckage. I can do all that from any direction wherever it takes place in the city. There's no denying the game realizes taking up the role of Batman from a physical perspective in such a complete way, and considering it's an action series, that's what truly counts. On top of that, it does a decent job from an aesthetic and style standpoint.
 

stn

Member
I LOVED it when I first started. By the time I beat it I was fatigued by the game. Went from a 10/10 to a 8/10. Its a good game, just not amazing.

-Story falls apart regarding the Arkham Knight
-Side missions are generally repetitive and lack depth (a few are good)
-Too much fetching
-Batmobile was fun in puzzles, a bit more tedious in long drone fights
-Awful boss battles. AWFUL.

I'll eventually go back to it but I'm not in a rush at all.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
Didn't want to make a new LTTP, I really ended up not liking this. Quit and deleted it last night a bit over half way through the main story, and like 37% completion overall.

I just found it boring and tedious. I hated the Batmobile stuff, didn't like the combat, the story wasn't grabbing me and it just didn't have the atmosphere of Asylum or City.

Part of it is probably that I'm just pretty fatigued on open world games in general I guess, and that I no longer have any patience in trying to force myself to finish games I'm not loving, but it's been a while since I've been so disappointed with a sequel to a series I enjoyed previously.
 

Waxwing

Member
I don't really agree that Knight had a very good representation of Batman story wise. A good way to tell how bad a Batman story is is by how much it makes the World's greatest detective look like a total incompetent idiot.
Batman has magic time rewinding technology and the ability to analyze footage frame by frame yet he somehow bought that Jason Todd was killed by the Joker? He didn't call anyone to pick up Barbara's body or even notice the gas in the room?

Gameplay and narrative just do not line up in this game.

You do know the Jason Todd bit is actually from a very high profile comic book storyline, right? My only disappointment there was that they didn't mix things up and give us a storyline we hadn't seen before. Todd was the tamest choice for the identity of Knight- I was really hoping they were going to go crazy and make it Oracle/Barbara.
 

JB1981

Member
I absolutely loved the game. Batmobile was an awesome addition to the sandbox. There was plenty of Batman action mixed in to balance out the gameplay. Game looked great on PS4 as well.
 

Vic_Viper

Member
Picked up the game plus all DLC a few weeks ago during a steam sale and having been seriously loving it. I played through it on ps4 when it first came out and rushed through it, hating the car combat stuff. But now after playing it slowly I actually really like the bat mobile. Yes the combat can drag on sometimes but just driving around can be so much fun. The last DLC they did, season of infamy has been really cool too and makes the game feel like the complete batman Experiance when it felt lacking something at launch. This game is huge and I don't want it to end. Will really miss Rockstar's Batman games. Can't wait for the PS4 remasteres now.
 
picked this up on sale last night on xbone, haven't gotten far into it but the first thing I notice right away is how stunning gotham looks.

I feel like a lot of games struggle with having good camera shots. Not just a photo mode thing, but basic stuff like shot composition, etc. is usually compromised by the fact that most games have the over the shoulder RE4 camera, fixed angles are a t hing of the past.

But Arkham Knight's gotham feels so skillfully crafted and beautiful that I legitimately have to try and make a shot look bad when I'm looking at any screenshots. Sure there's screen tearing and some drops a-plenty on the xbone, but the game is just stunning, imo. Really looking forward to getting more into it.
 
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