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[Psxphile]

• Grinding for cards through Contacts seems like... well, a grind. That said, once I started playing around with the Persona system some more it grew on me. (Though I am a little unclear as to how a Persona's stats effect the person it's assigned to.)

Stats are averaged out between character and Persona equipped.

now the story is also a complete clusterfuck to me but i guess its vecause somethings are still unexplained

why does MAJOR SPOILERS

Spoiler

Jun or the Joker want revenge on us still? I thought the main reason was because of the fact we "killed" maya by locking her up when we were all kids because we didnt want her to leave but shes kinda alive now so whats the point anymore lol

and why did that guy(king leo) set the place were the MC and Maya were locked up together on fire? was he just some random arsonists? how did we ruin his life?

1st item:

Spoiler

I forget but does Jun/Joker even know Maya is still alive at that point? Nevertheless, it stands to reason that something is blocking him from realizing the truth. He's been fed nothing but lies regarding what happened to Maya in the past and believes them whole-heartily.

2nd item:

Spoiler

He's psychotic. He's always been a little touched in the head (the "voices"), but after the only man he ever trusted up and died he went further bonkers. The bit about ruining his life is probably when he got trounced and his face burned by Maya and Tatsuya's emerging Personas during the shrine incident. After that he was apprehended and sent to the sanitarium.

 

[omg_mjd]

I bought it during a sale because I love P3P and P4G but after the first combat encounter I put it down and went back to P3P for a FeMC playthrough. Nothing wrong with the game and the story is intriguing but I guess I'm still not ready to put P3P aside. Definitely will go back to it someday and looking forward to P2:EP as well.

 

[GSR]

Stats are averaged out between character and Persona equipped.

Thanks! It got particularly noticeable when I managed to rank up Pixie - Tatsuya (who's using it for the moment while Lisa levels Jack Frost) went from 7 Luck to 40-something.

but i think the main reason i stopped was because i was getting REALLY burned out because it was just dungeon after dungeon after dungeon.

That said, I'm starting to feel this now. I get the game is primarily a dungeon crawler, but I'm in the middle of

Spoiler

Lisa's idol plotline

and the game's now thrown me into three dungeons in quick succession with minimal plot development between each - and they're areas that have no real reason to be dungeons, to boot! I appreciate the more modern setting, but it's a little ridiculous when a CD store is five floors of mazes with random encounters.

Luckily it looks like there's a Persona with a "reduce-random-encounters" skill - I'll have to look into picking that one up.

 

[King Gilga]

I really wanted to like P2 IS PSP.

I loved the characters, liked the music, the op, what I was starting to get of the story.

But the gameplay was so damn tedious, random battles every 2 feet, which you just auto attacked through, fuck that.

Never made it very far before I got bored,

 

[Barrylocke]

I feel like Persona 2 has a similar problem as Soul Hackers where people are more likely to have enjoyed it if they played it when it was fresh and the oldschool rpg style was more current. For me, I did find the dungeons to be a bit of a slog at times, and the gameplay of IS, even in the PSX version, was waay too easy, but the story, characters and ESPECIALLY the atmosphere and music kept me playing until the end.

Unfortunately I started to feel the burnout with Eternal Punishment, and I stopped playing around the halfway point. My problem was that I decided to play it right after Innocent Sin, and the gamestyle just wore me out by then. It's a shame, because EP is a harder game and I prefer it more plotwise and (to a lesser extent) characterwise. Also, EP ties more into the Persona 1 plotline more than IS did, despite the fact that they both let you have P1 characters in the part for a significant portion of the game. I think I need to replay EP since its been a long time since I put it down. Maybe the time gap will help me stay fresh until the end.

Also, Maya is an amazing amazing character, probably one of my top 5 JRPG heroines. One of the sad things about EP is that Maya being the main character means that she's a silent protagonist, and her great personality and demeanor is only implied through how characters talk to you instead of actually shown in its full glory.

 

[Valkerionseven]

Feel the same as most, everything but the combat was very interesting right from the opening but it really was a struggle to keep interest between plot points. Been wanting to retry this game eventually but not for awhile.

 

[GSR]

I feel like Persona 2 has a similar problem as Soul Hackers where people are more likely to have enjoyed it if they played it when it was fresh and the oldschool rpg style was more current. For me, I did find the dungeons to be a bit of a slog at times, and the gameplay of IS, even in the PSX version, was waay too easy, but the story, characters and ESPECIALLY the atmosphere and music kept me playing until the end.

Unfortunately I started to feel the burnout with Eternal Punishment, and I stopped playing around the halfway point. My problem was that I decided to play it right after Innocent Sin, and the gamestyle just wore me out by then. It's a shame, because EP is a harder game and I prefer it more plotwise and (to a lesser extent) characterwise. Also, EP ties more into the Persona 1 plotline more than IS did, despite the fact that they both let you have P1 characters in the part for a significant portion of the game. I think I need to replay EP since its been a long time since I put it down. Maybe the time gap will help me stay fresh until the end.

Also, Maya is an amazing amazing character, probably one of my top 5 JRPG heroines. One of the sad things about EP is that Maya being the main character means that she's a silent protagonist, and her great personality and demeanor is only implied through how characters talk to you instead of actually shown in its full glory.

I'm absolutely loving Maya so far, and even though she gets silenced in the process I can't wait to play her as the protag in EP. My initial plan was to play EP after IS, but considering I'm starting to see possible burnout just with IS, I'll likely take a break between the games.

And I agree - if I had played this game several years ago or at time of release (which wouldn't have been possible, granted) I think I'd be enjoying it a decent bit more. The rough edges are just that much more visible today.

Does EP's PSP remake do anything to smooth things over? (I'm aware it doesn't have an English translation - I speak Japanese fairly well.)

 

[TheSeks]

Everyone playing this game, do not forget this game's sequel:

(too bad we never got the PSP version, and have to contend with the PS1 version on PSN [US only])

Until the possible fan translation with more character limits for a possibly smoother translation than Atlus' "official" 1997 PSX-era character limit translation, maybe.

 

[Immaculate]

Until the possible fan translation with more character limits for a possibly smoother translation than Atlus' "official" 1997 PSX-era character limit translation, maybe.

cant find a translation patch anywhere

 

[Psxphile]

Thanks! It got particularly noticeable when I managed to rank up Pixie - Tatsuya (who's using it for the moment while Lisa levels Jack Frost) went from 7 Luck to 40-something.

Yeah, Pixie is unique in that she gets crazy gains in Luck when she reaches Rank 8. I think it actually goes up and maxes at 99. Actually, much like Persona 1 there are multiple Personas in both Persona 2s that get major stat gains at Rank 8.

I feel like Persona 2 has a similar problem as Soul Hackers where people are more likely to have enjoyed it if they played it when it was fresh and the oldschool rpg style was more current.

I hope not! I never got to play any version of the original SH (for obvious reasons) and I have the 3DS version being shipped to me as we speak. Fortunately I'm familiar (at the very least) with the old-school Personas (and well, 8-bit/16-bit jRPGs in general) so I'm used to the high encounter rates and antiquated gameplay systems/graphics, lol.

Until the possible fan translation with more character limits for a possibly smoother translation than Atlus' "official" 1997 PSX-era character limit translation, maybe.

Something happening? I keep hearing of a "possible" fan translation but so far I'm not seeing anything to suggest it's actively being worked on.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Something happening? I keep hearing of a "possible" fan translation but so far I'm not seeing anything to suggest it's actively being worked on.

It is.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/persona-2-eternal-punishment-time-for-a-fan-translation.344765/

Also, great write up on IS here:
http://artemis-maia.tumblr.com/post/90000132988/the-depiction-of-the-media-in-p2-and-p2-as-a-time

Major spoilers.

Tadashi was way ahead of the curve.

 

[snow in jamaica]

I found P1 far more tolerable as its mechanics and combat system ran tremendously faster, and especially given how the tarot/negotiation system wasn't nearly the bloated mess that it was in P2.

Faster combat how? Battles are severely bogged down by the participation-based experience distribution and range-affecting placement that really hurts physical moves, the latter making those frequent battles against enemies invulnerable to magic especially tedious. In P2 you can spam fusion skills to blow enemies away (and rank up everyone's Personas!). Mind you, IS and EP aren't so fresh on my mind, and I don't remember my experience with P1 precisely either.

Combat aside, P1 has enemies on the map while IS and EP don't.

 

[Immaculate]

Yes. Specifically, a

Spoiler

rumour was spread that wearing Seven High's emblem will cause your face to fall off (the curse). Hence, random students having to bandage their faces to keep it from peeling away (the emblem is on the school uniforms)

i really dont remember ANYONE saying this when i first started and when i first entered the school i talked to everyone. did i miss when someone brought it up because all people kept saying was that the school was cursed lol

 

[extralite]

But I highly recommend playing EP after IS. Just not right after since some of it is a retread.

I played the games in order, both on the PS2 via BC, IS in 2005 and EP one year later. EP still felt like a major retread and I cursed the story (which was interesting enough) for making me play through all the same locations again, with the same gameplay, just harder.

It is true that IS is very easy and EP should be the more interesting game thanks to being more challenging.

But IS was fun to me for finding the fusion attacks, it was fast because of the low difficulty and auto battles (which featured heavily in mainline SMT also but are much nicer in P2, thanks to fusion attacks and the way it's set up), it didn't have a crazy encounter rate on PS (but dungeons got too long near the end) and the negotiation system is one of the best in all SMT games (and the spin offs that use it like P1-2). You could switch between battles and negotiation if either got boring and the story was captivating so I just pressed on.

The higher difficulty in EP demands a more strategic approach but it is easy to find a strategy that breaks the game. Exploiting the boss's weak point is almost always the best way to defeat it in a few rounds, and since I often only had one (or two) personas that could hit its weakness, I constantly unequipped and equipped it to the next party member. That makes a few rounds take quite long and un-autos the battles to make the process rather tedious but it worked every time.

The thing is, since IS was new gameplay to me it was interesting to learn the systems. Towards the end you already understand all the mechanics and nothing new is added so the game starts to become boring. It's like that for most RPGs.

If difficulty results in the need to apply varied strategies that's welcomed but after IS, rushing down EP was child's play. So the higher difficulty just made the game more tedious.

As for EP's story, it is supposed to provide the adult perspective on the original's story. That it does quite well actually but without IS as the reference point a lot of the impact is lost. IS really has all the impact.

The rumor system may not be as refined in IS but it is meant to demonstrate how our construction of reality can be so out of touch with the facts. Prefering the more utilizable rumor system in the adult world EP is like appreciating how you can manipulate people with narratives you spread (formerly a tool mostly of the mainstream media but increasingly gaining power in social media).

Persona 2 illuminates this to guide people towards facing the truth.

Tadashi was way ahead of the curve.

It's always weird to me when people refer to a person they don't know personally by their first name.

As for Tadashi Satomi's acccomplishment as a JRPG story teller, I think he, Masato Kato and most of all Kazushige Nojima are Yasutaka Tsutsui's most prominent (unofficial) disciples in the game segment of Japanese culture. Tsutsui is the author of The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, a Japanese youth SF story from 1965 I mentioned earlier in the thread. This story was remade in various media again and again and is influencing writers to this day.

 

[Barrylocke]

I hope not! I never got to play any version of the original SH (for obvious reasons) and I have the 3DS version being shipped to me as we speak. Fortunately I'm familiar (at the very least) with the old-school Personas (and well, 8-bit/16-bit jRPGs in general) so I'm used to the high encounter rates and antiquated gameplay systems/graphics, lol.

For me personally, I feel that Soul Hackers aged better than the Persona games did, especially if you're cool with First Person Dungeon Crawlers. The battles have a more traditional style of play that should be easier to grasp, and the default gameplay is much faster than in Persona 2. That said, Persona 2's battle system really does feel faster once you use the system to your advantage.

Faster combat how? Battles are severely bogged down by the participation-based experience distribution and range-affecting placement that really hurts physical moves, the latter making those frequent battles against enemies invulnerable to magic especially tedious. In P2 you can spam fusion skills to blow enemies away (and rank up everyone's Personas!). Mind you, IS and EP aren't so fresh on my mind, and I don't remember my experience with P1 precisely either.

Combat aside, P1 has enemies on the map while IS and EP don't.

P1 didn't have enemies on the map at all.

As for the combat, I haven't played the PSP version of Persona 1 yet, so I can't give it decent judgement, but the videos I've seen of the battle system really does make it look potentially faster, especially if you use turbo mode.

On a related note, perhaps one reason Persona 2's battle system isn't quite so bad to me is because I stomached Persona 1 PS1 all the way to the end. Now THAT was a slow battle system, if you can deal with that, then you can deal with almost any other JRPG out there in terms of combat speed.

 

[cj_iwakura]

It's always weird to me when people refer to a person they don't know personally by their first name.

As for Tadashi Satomi's acccomplishment as a JRPG story teller, I think he, Masato Kato and most of all Kazushige Nojima are Yasutaka Tsutsui's most prominent (unofficial) disciples in the game segment of Japanese culture. Tsutsui is the author of The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, a Japanese youth SF story from 1965 I mentioned earlier in the thread. This story was remade in various media again and again and is influencing writers to this day.

I thought his family name was Tadashi.

 

[extralite]

I thought his family name was Tadashi.

I thought that might be the case. It isn't exactly easy to tell, because of the inverted order and some names can be both family names or first names. If Satomi was a first name, it'd be a female name though (and be written with different kanji).

 

[Psxphile]

i really dont remember ANYONE saying this when i first started and when i first entered the school i talked to everyone. did i miss when someone brought it up because all people kept saying was that the school was cursed lol

I think you did.

It was first hinted at by Lisa when she first appears and rips the Sevens emblem off of Tatsuya. In fact, pretty sure Lisa is the one that explains what the curse is, though there are also NPC students 'round the school that bring it up. It's later revealed that

Spoiler

someone from Kasuyagama(sp?) High spread the rumour about the school, which is why you end up going there later.

P1 didn't have enemies on the map at all.

I think he meant random battles. P1 definitely had random encounters on the overworld map, both versions.

 

[Brandon F]

Faster combat how? Battles are severely bogged down by the participation-based experience distribution and range-affecting placement that really hurts physical moves, the latter making those frequent battles against enemies invulnerable to magic especially tedious. In P2 you can spam fusion skills to blow enemies away (and rank up everyone's Personas!). Mind you, IS and EP aren't so fresh on my mind, and I don't remember my experience with P1 precisely either.

Combat aside, P1 has enemies on the map while IS and EP don't.

Several factors made it faster. Loadtimes being the most beneficial in P1 over P2. Mechanics-wise, it can be tedious setting up the placement of your heroes when assigning new-demons to ensure maximum effective ranges and ability spamming. You never quite feel you have perfect placement, but it's not that difficult to find an arrangement that can trivialize most encounters through dungeons outside very specific scenarios that crop up rarely. Ultimately I spent the entirety of the game merely tweaking a common arrangement briefly every few hours to fit the new abilities of stronger fused demons. Necessary evil, but the game is rarely challenging enough to bother stressing over it that much. The animation skip stuff was also far faster in P1 than in P2 when turned on in both games. Finally there is the negotiation stuff for tarot cards/demons which was a night and day difference between the two games in terms of menu grazing, functionality, bloat, and irritation for the player. P1 had far fewer options to consider, but also didn't highlight the exchange with the characters stepping forward with all sorts of repetitive antics, animations, and wasted time, particularly when farming for known results.

Playing both back-to-back and my tolerability for P1 combat fodder was acceptable, while P2 regularly felt insufferable.

 

[Immaculate]

I think you did.

It was first hinted at by Lisa when she first appears and rips the Sevens emblem off of Tatsuya. In fact, pretty sure Lisa is the one that explains what the curse is

bleh im stupid i actually remember now that you brought it up -_-

btw do you know how to get rewards for defeating rumor demons? ive already defeated the dresser hag and kuchisake-onna and go back and tell the people i defeated but theyre never there or talking about something entirely different

 

[cj_iwakura]

bleh im stupid i actually remember now that you brought it up -_-

btw do you know how to get rewards for defeating rumor demons? ive already defeated the dresser hag and kuchisake-onna and go back and tell the people i defeated but theyre never there or talking about something entirely different

Might have missed the window.

 

[snow in jamaica]

P1 didn't have enemies on the map at all.

I ran into enemies on the overworld map all the time. I've even seen them in videos of the PS1 version.

[stuff]

I actually haven't tried any of the games without battle animations. Wwwhoops. I also hadn't considered the bloat from the demon contact scenes which in turn make card farming even worse. You have good points.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I ran into enemies on the overworld map all the time. I've even seen them in videos of the PS1 version.

I guess he meant there aren't any visible.

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

Love the games, fuck the haters.

 

[charlequin]

For me personally, I feel that Soul Hackers aged better than the Persona games did, especially if you're cool with First Person Dungeon Crawlers. The battles have a more traditional style of play that should be easier to grasp, and the default gameplay is much faster than in Persona 2.

It's not even an issue of the battles themselves, I think. The battle system in Persona 2 is actually pretty neat; the combo attacks and the turn ordering mechanic both make for some interesting strategy. The real problem in Persona 2 is that everything is clunky-slow (even with speedups on) so it becomes really easy for the game to feel tedious. If someone rebuilt this game from scratch today it'd probably be a fraction of the time to get in and out of fights or to attack enemies and it'd be easier to enjoy the gameplay as a result.

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

Played both this and P1 last summer and disliked both greatly. I found P1 far more tolerable as its mechanics and combat system ran tremendously faster, and especially given how the tarot/negotiation system wasn't nearly the bloated mess that it was in P2. Thankfully grinding certain tarot's wasn't too necessary given how imbalanced the entire game was, I probably would have hated the thing more if it necessitated more upkeep(and I -really- disliked it).

I also felt the plot and story in P2 was lackluster as well. Despite the foreboding title aesthetic and deep "red" veneer, it was a light-hearted romp that only had a few moments of meaningful story deliberation amidst the seemingly non-stop antics and silliness that pervaded the rest of the game. I can certainly understand people loving it, but I wasn't very engaged and given how often Persona-GAF has raved about P2 having the best plot and story in the franchise I felt it was a very limp. The 11th hour exposition just seemingly comes out of nowhere and is what I imagine most people remember most fondly, but again after 30 hours of meandering through the game, it didn't exactly provide me the reaction that many of the diehards rave about.

The funny thing about the battle system complaints is that you can greatly speed up random battles (even faster than modern personas, without the constant, inane commentary) by using hit-all fusion spells. Ironically, since everyone and their mother is advocating the whole "keep starting personas and only use those handed to you", you don't have access to those fusion spells and consequently make the game slower since your damage output is ridiculously low. Sure, you won't die, but the same applies to your enemies.

 

[cj_iwakura]

It's not even an issue of the battles themselves, I think. The battle system in Persona 2 is actually pretty neat; the combo attacks and the turn ordering mechanic both make for some interesting strategy. The real problem in Persona 2 is that everything is clunky-slow (even with speedups on) so it becomes really easy for the game to feel tedious. If someone rebuilt this game from scratch today it'd probably be a fraction of the time to get in and out of fights or to attack enemies and it'd be easier to enjoy the gameplay as a result.

I'm replaying the PS1 version, and I like it just fine. Why is it any worse than, say, FF7?

 

[Taruranto]

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with the battle system.

I bet if the game had waifus s.link and shit it would 100x popular with the modern fanbase.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with the battle system.

I bet if the game had waifus s.link and shit it would 100x popular with the modern fanbase.

I guarantee it's the random battles. That's why the butchered Lunar remakes are so popular and people are terrified of the originals. I dig P3 and P4, yet the divide between the communities is amazing in what you see discussed.

 

[thequickandthedead]

I think people have more of a problem with P2's encounter rate rather than the battle system itself. I remember it being frustratingly high the last time played it.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

It's not even an issue of the battles themselves, I think. The battle system in Persona 2 is actually pretty neat; the combo attacks and the turn ordering mechanic both make for some interesting strategy. The real problem in Persona 2 is that everything is clunky-slow (even with speedups on) so it becomes really easy for the game to feel tedious. If someone rebuilt this game from scratch today it'd probably be a fraction of the time to get in and out of fights or to attack enemies and it'd be easier to enjoy the gameplay as a result.

Slow and easy are just a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad combat combo in any game.

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

the divide between the communities is amazing in what you see discussed.

It truly is baffling. First game in the series syndrome, I guess.

I think people have more of a problem with P2's encounter rate rather than the battle system itself. I remember it being frustratingly high the last time played it.

There are items and spells that reduce/negate encounters. Requires some effort though since you need to acquire the Personas that have Estoma so most players won't ever get to use it all.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I think people have more of a problem with P2's encounter rate rather than the battle system itself. I remember it being frustratingly high the last time played it.

It's no worse than Nocturne or Strange Journey's.

 

[GSR]

I may as well pop into this thread again. I'm quite a bit further now - about to enter

Spoiler

Caracol

.

I'm - still not sure how I feel about the game! There's definitely parts of it I enjoy - the cast of characters is still great, and while the plot's definitely taken a turn for the wacky there are still parts I'm liking quite a bit.

The encounter rate really has started to get on my nerves, though. Estoma doesn't seem like it'll be much help either, since I'm usually below the levels of enemies in the current plot dungeon. But that doesn't mean battles are hard - Sonic Wave knocks out anything that's not resistant to Wind, and Dashing Strike takes care of the rest. I suppose I could stop and grind to let Estoma be more useful, but - I'd really rather not, seeing as I'll just have to repeat the process at each dungeon, and I'm already feeling a bit overpowered.

Still, I'll keep going, and this seems as good a time to ask - is there any (legal) way to play EP PSP on an American Vita?

 

[cj_iwakura]

I may as well pop into this thread again. I'm quite a bit further now - about to enter

Spoiler

Caracol

.

I'm - still not sure how I feel about the game! There's definitely parts of it I enjoy - the cast of characters is still great, and while the plot's definitely taken a turn for the wacky there are still parts I'm liking quite a bit.

The encounter rate really has started to get on my nerves, though. Estoma doesn't seem like it'll be much help either, since I'm usually below the levels of enemies in the current plot dungeon. But that doesn't mean battles are hard - Sonic Wave knocks out anything that's not resistant to Wind, and Dashing Strike takes care of the rest. I suppose I could stop and grind to let Estoma be more useful, but - I'd really rather not, seeing as I'll just have to repeat the process at each dungeon, and I'm already feeling a bit overpowered.

Still, I'll keep going, and this seems as good a time to ask - is there any (legal) way to play EP PSP on an American Vita?

Off the JPSN, sure. But PS1 isn't that bad at all.

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

I may as well pop into this thread again. I'm quite a bit further now - about to enter

Spoiler

Caracol

.

I'm - still not sure how I feel about the game! There's definitely parts of it I enjoy - the cast of characters is still great, and while the plot's definitely taken a turn for the wacky there are still parts I'm liking quite a bit.

It'll get crazier the farther you go in but it all makes sense contextually. Don't forget to talk to everyone between dungeons.

The encounter rate really has started to get on my nerves, though. Estoma doesn't seem like it'll be much help either, since I'm usually below the levels of enemies in the current plot dungeon. But that doesn't mean battles are hard - Sonic Wave knocks out anything that's not resistant to Wind, and Dashing Strike takes care of the rest. I suppose I could stop and grind to let Estoma be more useful, but - I'd really rather not, seeing as I'll just have to repeat the process at each dungeon, and I'm already feeling a bit overpowered.

Make sure you get a couple enemy group wide fusion spells to make battles go faster. You can use this to reduce guessing/Solving Orb abuse http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Persona_2:_Innocent_Sin_Fusion_Spells

 

[GSR]

It'll get crazier the farther you go in but it all makes sense contextually. Don't forget to talk to everyone between dungeons.

Make sure you get a couple enemy group wide fusion spells to make battles go faster. You can use this to reduce guessing/Solving Orb abuse http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Persona_2:_Innocent_Sin_Fusion_Spells

I've been making use of that page occasionally already to be honest, though my dumb JRPG pride prefers to stick to the in-game stuff.

I can usually finish battles in a turn or two thanks to Sonic Wave, like I said - that hits all enemies and usually does enough to knock them out unless they resist/absorb/reflect Wind. The encounter rate still feels too high, is all.

I am glad the game is at least putting legitimate plot in the dungeons now. The

Spoiler

Zodiac-Giga Macho-Aoba-Concert Hall

dungeon chain was awful for dragging out a miniscule amount of story.

Off the JPSN, sure. But PS1 isn't that bad at all.

I'll look into setting up JPSN stuff. Does the PSP version have any additional features to smooth over the rough spots I'm having with high encounter rates/slow battles?

 

[PowderedToast]

surely the best cast of any jrpg?

I have wonderful memories of this game from a couple years ago. I perservered through the high encounter rate and obtuse dungeons and was handsomely rewarded. the story is genuinely special, and I became quite fond of the systems aswell. the sprite work was very memorable and I vastly prefer that over P3/P4's polygonal characters.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I'll look into setting up JPSN stuff. Does the PSP version have any additional features to smooth over the rough spots I'm having with high encounter rates/slow battles?

Not to my knowledge.

 

[PK Gaming]

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with the battle system.

I bet if the game had waifus s.link and shit it would 100x popular with the modern fanbase.

Your post reeks of condescension and insincerity. I'm especially annoyed by the way you infantilize modern Persona fans, as if they're reasons for disliking the older games are exclusively due to the lack of s.link or "waifus."

But on to the main point. I know, opinions, but I just don't see how you can say that there's nothing wrong with the P2 battle system. I can think of a few on hand, such as the hilariously broken fusion spell system, the heinously slow battle speed, the pointless trial and error based contact system (and the inability to back out of them), the complete lack of challenge in IS* (unless you played where PS1 version, which railroads the player into grinding for the final boss due to the sharp difficulty spike). Both games exacerbates the flaws by throwing massive, trap filled dungeons with a fairly high encounter rate (I'm not even going to talk about the PSP version of IS).

Even the best aspect of the game (collecting Personas) is marred by the grindy tarot card system, which indirectly hurts the battle system. It prevents you from exploring the Persona by presenting you with these freakishly high card requirements (Iris, a staple early-game Persona from P2:EP requires 72 star cards). This ends up forcing to player to only fuse the very *best* Personas, because everything else is a waste of time.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Your post reeks of condescension and insincerity. I'm especially annoyed by the way you infantilize modern Persona fans, as if they're reasons for disliking the older games are exclusively due to the lack of s.link or "waifus."

But on to the main point. I know, opinions, but I just don't see how you can say that there's nothing wrong with the P2 battle system. I can think of a few on hand, such as the hilariously broken fusion spell system, the heinously slow battle speed, the pointless trial and error based contact system, the complete lack of challenge in IS* (unless you played where PS1 version, which railroads the player into grinding for the final boss due to the sharp difficulty spike). The game itself exacerbates the flaws by throwing massive, trap filled dungeons with a fairly high encounter rate (I'm not even going to talk about the PSP version of IS).

Even the best aspect of the game (collecting Personas) is marred by the grindy tarot card system, which indirectly hryurts the battle system. It prevents you from exploring the Persona by presenting you with these freakishly high card requirements (Iris, a staple early-game Persona from P2:EP requires 72 star cards). This ends up forcing to player to only fuse the very *best* Personas, because everything else is a waste of time.

P2 is perfectly playable with normal Personae,same way P3 and 4 are. If you want to go the extra mile to break the game, the option is there.

And you can get 72 tarot in a matter of minutes. It's not like it's hard.

 

[chrominance]

Even the best aspect of the game (collecting Personas) is marred by the grindy tarot card system, which indirectly hurts the battle system. It prevents you from exploring the Persona by presenting you with these freakishly high card requirements (Iris, a staple early-game Persona from P2:EP requires 72 star cards). This ends up forcing to player to only fuse the very *best* Personas, because everything else is a waste of time.

Maybe the original PS1 version was stingier with this stuff, but I don't remember P2:IS being hugely grindy when it came to the cards. 72 doesn't really seem like a lot, especially once you get through a chunk of the game and negotiations start to net you 7 or 8 cards a battle. Plus there are all the free (or blank, I forget what they're called) cards you can have the velvet room painter change into whatever tarot card you need.

You did have to vaguely put some thought into it, though; you couldn't just rely on the tarot cards coming to you whenever, you did have to remember which demons gave what cards and remember not to kill them but to negotiate. But aside from the well-documented UI issues (basically "ugh too many menus and lengthy animations") you didn't have to grind encounters to do this, you could usually just get through a dungeon normally for the most part. Fight smart, not hard! (Let's positive thinking?)

 

[PK Gaming]

P2 is perfectly playable with normal Personae,same way P3 and 4 are. If you want to go the extra mile to break the game, the option is there.

And you can get 72 tarot in a matter of minutes. It's not like it's hard.

My point wasn't "P2 isn't playable" it's "the battle system has flaws that keep people from playing it"

In any case, you could make it through P2:IS using the handout Personas + a handful of Personas that granted you broken fusion spells (such as Sif + Nezha, Minotaur + Pixie, etc, etc) so it wasn't really a problem. However, P2:EP demands regularly updating your Personas, which could prove incredibly tedious due to the contact system.

And way to miss the point! Iris was just an example, there are far steeper prices and dozens upon dozens of viable Persona to choose from. The grinding just compounds on itself. (And tracking down a star tarot giving demon AND finding out what contacts make it happy took time)

EDIT:

Maybe the original PS1 version was stingier with this stuff, but I don't remember P2:IS being hugely grindy when it came to the cards. 72 doesn't really seem like a lot, especially once you get through a chunk of the game and negotiations start to net you 7 or 8 cards a battle. Plus there are all the free (or blank, I forget what they're called) cards you can have the velvet room painter change into whatever tarot card you need.

You did have to vaguely put some thought into it, though; you couldn't just rely on the tarot cards coming to you whenever, you did have to remember which demons gave what cards and remember not to kill them but to negotiate. But aside from the well-documented UI issues (basically "ugh too many menus and lengthy animations") you didn't have to grind encounters to do this, you could usually just get through a dungeon normally for the most part. Fight smart, not hard! (Let's positive thinking?)

P2:IS wasn't grindy because you could make it through the game via the Persona handouts. P2:EP is incredibly grindy.

 

[cj_iwakura]

My point wasn't "P2 isn't playable" it's "the battle system has flaws that keep people from playing it"

Well, the common gripe is the former.

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

I can think of a few on hand, such as the hilariously broken fusion spell system.

Explain this to me. Seriously.

the pointless trial and error based contact system.

You are aware that contact results are based on demon personality, right? Figure out what works for say, arrogant and wise and every demon with the same attributes will respond in the exact same way. If you're too lazy to figure it out, there's always a guide out there.

Both games exacerbates the flaws by throwing massive, trap filled dungeons with a fairly high encounter rate (I'm not even going to talk about the PSP version of IS).

Welcome to every SMT game ever made? They're pretty easy and straightforward compared to other games in the series. Stick with the plain ol' boring randomly generated corridors of 3 and 4 I guess.

Even the best aspect of the game (collecting Personas) is marred by the grindy tarot card system, which indirectly hurts the battle system. It prevents you from exploring the Persona by presenting you with these freakishly high card requirements (Iris, a staple early-game Persona from P2:EP requires 72 star cards). This ends up forcing to player to only fuse the very *best* Personas, because everything else is a waste of time.

There's a demon in the dungeon you get Iris in that gives 20 STAR cards and an additional 15 FREE if you strike up a contract with it. You get enough cards to summon in exactly 3 battles. The tarot drops scale with the demons so you never need to grind for hours to get cards ; the game even throws a shit ton of them your way when you complete the Salem subquests. I just don't think you've exploited the game's systems very well.

It's funny that playthroughs of this game clock at around 55-60 hours, which is pretty much the same time as a normal playthrough of Persona 3 or 4. The time you spend in battles in IS and EP is spent in endless cutscenes in 3 and 4.

 

[PK Gaming]

Explain this to me. Seriously.

Fusion Spells such as Pegasus Strike, Dashing Strike, Meltdown and anything involving Heartful prayer completely trivialize the game. There is little incentive to not using Fusion Spells in battle, (especially since they give you a mutation chance) so every battle devolves into Fusion spell spam. Even the potential loss of turns aren't a problem, as the payoff is simply too much. And while most of these fusion spells were nerfed in EP, but they're still a little too good for the most part, since they completely wipe out trash mobs (and Heartful prayer is still godlike).

You are aware that contact results are based on demon personality, right? Figure out what works for say, arrogant and wise and every demon with the same attributes will respond in the exact same way. If you're too lazy to figure it out, there's always a guide out there.

Absolutely. Figuring out what works is the definition of trial and error. Figuring what combos produces the desired response is trial and error. There's a lot to memorize, and it's fairly daunting without a guide.

Welcome to every SMT game ever made? They're pretty easy and straightforward compared to other games in the series. Stick with the plain ol' boring randomly generated corridors of 3 and 4 I guess.

That's a straw argument and you know it. The reason why I generally appreciate SMT dungeons and single out P2's dungeons for being bad is because those games generally have the primary draw of having a battle system that isn't completely flawed, or a random encounter system that isn't flat out terrible. For instance, Soul Hackers was made around the same time as P2, and it features an absolutely fantastic battle system, an Estoma spell the actually works, and the ability to quickly recruit (or use fusion summoning) to obtain demons. Don't try and lump every SMT game together to push your agenda, and please, stop it with those shallow ad hominem attacks. I'm honestly really disappointed right now, because I do not want to be misrepresented as what you have made me out to be.

There's a demon in the dungeon you get Iris in that gives 20 STAR cards and an additional 15 FREE if you strike up a contract with it. You get enough cards to summon in exactly 3 battles. The tarot drops scale with the demons so you never need to grind for hours to get cards ; the game even throws a shit ton of them your way when you complete the Salem subquests. I just don't think you've exploited the game's systems very well.

Oh, that's interesting. I'll make a note of it in future playthroughs. But that aside, it doesn't change the fact the tarot card requirements are ridiculous. You usually waste most of your cards when summoning a Persona, and even though the cards received scales as you go along, mid/lategame Personas still requite quite a bit of cards to use, and there are 5 characters to consider. (Izanami, another staple Persona mid-game takes 153 cards to summon). You cannot tell me with a straight face that attempting to gather these cards does not constitute as grinding. Even the most ardent Persona 2 fans can admit this. And as for Salem's subquests, they require you to map out entire dungeons. They're extremely tedious.

It's funny that playthroughs of this game clock at around 55-60 hours, which is pretty much the same time as a normal playthrough of Persona 3 or 4. The time you spend in battles in IS and EP is spent in endless cutscenes in 3 and 4.

Dude, what's your damage? You're not even pretending to hide your blatant biases.

I love Persona 4, but I don't consider it sacrosanct. You shouldn't take offense at every single slight directed at Persona 2. And you shouldn't make assumptions about people disagree with you, it's pathetic.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Salem's quests are beyond nuts, but they are optional, and the rewards are fantastic.

 

[randomkid]

I played and beat P2:EP early this year and never grinded for anything (note, I define grinding as running around in circles for more than 1 minute solely in order to gain experience/money/cards/whatever). If a Persona had high card requirements I'd make a note to negotiate with the right demon type in the next dungeon as I encountered it, and make sure to form a contract to get the blank card bonus. I don't remember ever having to negotiate more than a handful of times to get the number of cards I needed thanks to scaling and having shitloads of blank cards to help out if I was ever low in a given type. I did do the first few Salem quests to help out even more with card totals but eventually gave up when the dungeons got too big.

My interface issues with EP had to do with the regular menu (I never got used to the weird button placement) and setting up the fusion spells at the beginning of each battle, grinding was never an issue since I never grind in any game I play.

 

[charlequin]

I played and beat P2:EP early this year and never grinded for anything (note, I define grinding as running around in circles for more than 1 minute solely in order to gain experience/money/cards/whatever).

Man, see, I mostly agree with you about this stuff, but I never have enough cards for shit in EP and I contact stuff all the time. That's actually the single thing I liked the least about EP relative to IS -- more time spent chasing people down and doing slow negotiations to make Personas.

I'm replaying the PS1 version, and I like it just fine. Why is it any worse than, say, FF7?

FF7 is pretty bad about this stuff too!

 

[randomkid]

Man, see, I mostly agree with you about this stuff, but I never have enough cards for shit in EP and I contact stuff all the time. That's actually the single thing I liked the least about EP relative to IS -- more time spent chasing people down and doing slow negotiations to make Personas.

Ha, don't know what to tell ya! Maybe I made less Personas than most? My EP experience was definitely slower and clunkier than my IS one but I chalked that up to PSP vs. PSX issues and also EP not having joke difficulty.