• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Mad Men - Season 6 - Sundays on AMC

Status
Not open for further replies.
i didnt really read it that way

i dont see why betty would have any reason at this point in her life to get back at don

as she said shes happy where her life is
 
I thought she was pretty genuine when she said she actually feels bad for Megan, don't think she was taking shots. And of course Don wanted to bag that the second he saw her bending over that car in them shorts. I think the only thing thing that displays any "ownage" there was her saying it's just a one time thing, when knowing Don he'd probably make it ongoing if he could. Also knowing Betty, I'm not even convinced it's a one time thing.

But yeah I didn't read it as malicious as you did. The reason the scene was so great because of how sincere it all was. The talk in bed was amazing, heartfelt from both of them. But also showed how they're both kind of doing this for opposite reasons.
 
Perhaps I simply have less faith in Betty's emotional maturity than most.

And perhaps I'm overestimating the malice in her actions.

But that tryst served a number of purposes, and knocking Don (and by proxy, Megan) down a peg was absolutely in the mix.
 

CRS

Member
I just noticed that Benson has his trademark coffees at the scene at Joan's place... Where is he getting them?

The Anthora cups are a New York icon.
Perhaps I simply have less faith in Betty's emotional maturity than most.

And perhaps I'm overestimating the malice in her actions.

But that tryst served a number of purposes, and knocking Don (and by proxy, Megan) down a peg was absolutely in the mix.

Betty used her own daughter to get back at Megan and Don. There is no overestimation.
 

Dmax3901

Member
The Anthora cups are a New York icon.


Betty used her own daughter to get back at Megan and Don. There is no overestimation.

Ah I see.

Well, what do we see as being Benson's endgame? What's his purpose? He arrived trying to latch onto the company like a barnacle and he's slowly been absorbed, but now he's grown attached to Joan, but do we all really believe he's just 'in love' with her? That would be kinda underwhelming right?
 
I'm so dense, I had no idea we were supposed to be wondering about the background and motives of this new guy Bob Benson. I was too busy checking him out, I just thought he was the cute new puppy dog at the office.
 

Angry Fork

Member
I ...hated this episode. I don't think I've ever hated a Mad Men episode, but I had a hard time understanding what was going on in this one and why certain scenes existed. It was written, shot and put together so weird I feel like it's missing a bunch of pieces, which is weird as last week's episode was my favorite of the season so far.

1. Why was Pete meeting up with the guy who was obsessed with Peggy? What were they talking about? Is Pete trying to leave the agency or something?

2. Where was Don going when he was driving? And why does he conveniently stop at a gas station that Betty just happens to be? Why isn't Betty angry at him? Literally every episode prior when they talked to each other she had visceral hatred of him and now she's smiley smiley. I don't understand where this change came from, how, or why. It's just a complete 180.

3. Why were they meeting up in that cabin in the first place? What is going on here, what are they singing, is it some bible camp. Was it like custody weekend for Don or something? I swear I thought this was a dream or some kind of flashback but I know that wasn't the case because he mentioned Henry already. Again why is Betty acting nice. And where was Sally?

4. Don sits towards an empty chair and looks at a happy Betty. Was this meant to be as least subtle as possible? This is like Smallville writing for teenagers.

5. What's up with Roger's daughter going ape shit (no pun intended) over some nightmares and basically killing what seemed to be a normal relationship between a grandfather and grandson. Why was this storyline even in the episode to begin with? What was the point?

6. Is Ted the dumbest, most oblivious person on the planet when it comes to women or is he really genuine about staying faithful to his wife (or girlfriend whatever he has I don't know)?

It just felt like such a disjointed mess compared to the slick, ball rolling feel that recent episodes have had.
 

Matt

Member
I ...hated this episode. I don't think I've ever hated a Mad Men episode, but I had a hard time understanding what was going on in this one and why certain scenes existed. It was written, shot and put together so weird I feel like it's missing a bunch of pieces, which is weird as last week's episode was my favorite of the season so far.

1. Why was Pete meeting up with the guy who was obsessed with Peggy? What were they talking about? Is Pete trying to leave the agency or something?

2. Where was Don going when he was driving? And why does he conveniently stop at a gas station that Betty just happens to be? Why isn't Betty angry at him? Literally every episode prior when they talked to each other she had visceral hatred of him and now she's smiley smiley. I don't understand where this change came from, how, or why. It's just a complete 180.

3. Why were they meeting up in that cabin in the first place? What is going on here, what are they singing, is it some bible camp. Was it like custody weekend for Don or something? I swear I thought this was a dream or some kind of flashback but I know that wasn't the case because he mentioned Henry already. Again why is Betty acting nice. And where was Sally?

4. Don sits towards an empty chair and looks at a happy Betty. Was this meant to be as least subtle as possible? This is like Smallville writing for teenagers.

5. What's up with Roger's daughter going ape shit (no pun intended) over some nightmares and basically killing what seemed to be a normal relationship between a grandfather and grandson. Why was this storyline even in the episode to begin with? What was the point?

6. Is Ted the dumbest, most oblivious person on the planet when it comes to women or is he really genuine about staying faithful to his wife (or girlfriend whatever he has I don't know)?

It just felt like such a disjointed mess compared to the slick, ball rolling feel that recent episodes have had.

All of these have such simple explanations that I don't even really understand what you're trying to say.
 
I ...hated this episode. I don't think I've ever hated a Mad Men episode, but I had a hard time understanding what was going on in this one and why certain scenes existed. It was written, shot and put together so weird I feel like it's missing a bunch of pieces, which is weird as last week's episode was my favorite of the season so far.

1. Why was Pete meeting up with the guy who was obsessed with Peggy? What were they talking about? Is Pete trying to leave the agency or something?

2. Where was Don going when he was driving? And why does he conveniently stop at a gas station that Betty just happens to be? Why isn't Betty angry at him? Literally every episode prior when they talked to each other she had visceral hatred of him and now she's smiley smiley. I don't understand where this change came from, how, or why. It's just a complete 180.

3. Why were they meeting up in that cabin in the first place? What is going on here, what are they singing, is it some bible camp. Was it like custody weekend for Don or something? I swear I thought this was a dream or some kind of flashback but I know that wasn't the case because he mentioned Henry already. Again why is Betty acting nice. And where was Sally?

4. Don sits towards an empty chair and looks at a happy Betty. Was this meant to be as least subtle as possible? This is like Smallville writing for teenagers.

5. What's up with Roger's daughter going ape shit (no pun intended) over some nightmares and basically killing what seemed to be a normal relationship between a grandfather and grandson. Why was this storyline even in the episode to begin with? What was the point?

6. Is Ted the dumbest, most oblivious person on the planet when it comes to women or is he really genuine about staying faithful to his wife (or girlfriend whatever he has I don't know)?

It just felt like such a disjointed mess compared to the slick, ball rolling feel that recent episodes have had.

have you not been paying attention to the show or something? lol.

1) Pete has been feeling for a while now that he is being kind of pushed out by everybody and he thinks he might lose his job. He has even explicitly stated this, so it makes me question how close you're paying attention.

2) He was going to Bobby's summer camp and presumably it's in the middle of nowhere, or at least a place where there aren't any gas stations other than that one, especially back then.

3) you answered it already, Bobby's summer camp.

4) I don't get it...it would be weird if he DIDN'T look at her. This show can be on the nose at times lately, don't think this was one of those.

5) she is overprotective of her son and thinks Roger can't be trusted. Simple as that.

6) Ted's situation is pretty complicated. He's perfectly aware of what's going on, and maybe he likes it this way. Like the avclub review said (I think it was them), maybe he likes this bit of tension but isn't the type to act on it in a major way. But yeah he is complicated. Like most characters on this show.
 
if you missed the line where megan said she packed dons bag for bobbys camp the following scene is a little bizarre

i missed it the first time around i was a bit loaded
 

HoJu

Member
1. Why was Pete meeting up with the guy who was obsessed with Peggy? What were they talking about? Is Pete trying to leave the agency or something?
he's a head hunter. Pete wanted to know how safe he was if he left the agency, and he ended up getting some advice from ol' Duck.
2. Where was Don going when he was driving? And why does he conveniently stop at a gas station that Betty just happens to be? Why isn't Betty angry at him? Literally every episode prior when they talked to each other she had visceral hatred of him and now she's smiley smiley. I don't understand where this change came from, how, or why. It's just a complete 180.
he was going to Bobby's camp thing. he met Betty at the gas station because she was going there as well. coincidence? sure, but whatever. Betty was mostly jealous of Don marrying a younger, attractive lady while she got fat. Now Betty's hot stuff and is super confident, so she was teasing Don and whatever.
3. Why were they meeting up in that cabin in the first place? What is going on here, what are they singing, is it some bible camp. Was it like custody weekend for Don or something? I swear I thought this was a dream or some kind of flashback but I know that wasn't the case because he mentioned Henry already. Again why is Betty acting nice. And where was Sally?
Bobby's camp thing.
4. Don sits towards an empty chair and looks at a happy Betty. Was this meant to be as least subtle as possible? This is like Smallville writing for teenagers.
what? this honestly didn't feel out of place at all with anything else in the show.
5. What's up with Roger's daughter going ape shit (no pun intended) over some nightmares and basically killing what seemed to be a normal relationship between a grandfather and grandson. Why was this storyline even in the episode to begin with? What was the point?
because Roger is a 60 year old child who will die alone.
6. Is Ted the dumbest, most oblivious person on the planet when it comes to women or is he really genuine about staying faithful to his wife (or girlfriend whatever he has I don't know)?
yes
.
 
I ...hated this episode. I don't think I've ever hated a Mad Men episode, but I had a hard time understanding what was going on in this one and why certain scenes existed. It was written, shot and put together so weird I feel like it's missing a bunch of pieces, which is weird as last week's episode was my favorite of the season so far.

1. Why was Pete meeting up with the guy who was obsessed with Peggy? What were they talking about? Is Pete trying to leave the agency or something?

2. Where was Don going when he was driving? And why does he conveniently stop at a gas station that Betty just happens to be? Why isn't Betty angry at him? Literally every episode prior when they talked to each other she had visceral hatred of him and now she's smiley smiley. I don't understand where this change came from, how, or why. It's just a complete 180.

3. Why were they meeting up in that cabin in the first place? What is going on here, what are they singing, is it some bible camp. Was it like custody weekend for Don or something? I swear I thought this was a dream or some kind of flashback but I know that wasn't the case because he mentioned Henry already. Again why is Betty acting nice. And where was Sally?

4. Don sits towards an empty chair and looks at a happy Betty. Was this meant to be as least subtle as possible? This is like Smallville writing for teenagers.

5. What's up with Roger's daughter going ape shit (no pun intended) over some nightmares and basically killing what seemed to be a normal relationship between a grandfather and grandson. Why was this storyline even in the episode to begin with? What was the point?

6. Is Ted the dumbest, most oblivious person on the planet when it comes to women or is he really genuine about staying faithful to his wife (or girlfriend whatever he has I don't know)?

It just felt like such a disjointed mess compared to the slick, ball rolling feel that recent episodes have had.
Wow...how should I address this?

1) Pete feels like his role in the company has diminished because of the merger, so he's seeking new opportunities where he'll be allowed to shine.

2) Betty's anger is rooted in her jealousy of Megan and her own waning self-confidence. Now that she's back to her old self physically, and has seen how pathetic Don's become (passing out in his own living room, for instance), and has a successful husband on the political rise, she has everything she could ever want (insofar as this is possible for Betty, anyway). All the insecurities she had in S5 have been vanquished, but in any case, she does acknowledge her anger in the cabin.

3) Camp for Bobby. Betty is surprised that Don arrived as early as he did, so it's not like she was expecting the romantic evening. Betty's "acting" nice because she feels she finally has the power in her relationship with Don.

4) There have been far more blatantly obvious visual metaphors on the show. One, for instance, closes the episode. But that just comes with the territory in Mad Men. What a random time to complain about it.

5) The underlying motif of the episode is sort of "retreating" into old relationships to help you get over the failings of your current ones. Roger feels like he's a failure as a grandfather, so he goes to Joan for security only to be shut down. Don goes back to the Betty well, except she knows his number now and tells him in no uncertain terms that it won't happen again. Peggy thinks Ted will be her savior after her breakup with Abe, but he obviously has other ideas. Basically, it's about the folly of trying to fix your problems by running to the past.

6) Ted seems genuinely sorry about what happened. Maybe it'll come up again in the future, but he seems to have taken Peggy's advice to heart. The only problem is that now Peggy's the one who doesn't want to forget.

And as for this being the worst episode of Mad Men...have you seen Tea Leaves?
 

Angry Fork

Member
have you not been paying attention to the show or something? lol.

1) Pete has been feeling for a while now that he is being kind of pushed out by everybody and he thinks he might lose his job. He has even explicitly stated this, so it makes me question how close you're paying attention.

I got this but why the Peggy ex-boyfriend? Wasn't he a washed up drunk last time we saw him? Maybe I'm forgetting another appearance. It just seemed random to me, I thought he was gone from the show already. Like if Pete talks to Sal, it's like where did he come from all of a sudden...

4) I don't get it...it would be weird if he DIDN'T look at her. This show can be on the nose at times lately, don't think this was one of those.

True, I just thought the camera angle was too much maybe. I don't know it just made my eyes roll, I love the show beating Don to the ground but I think it's time to show what it leads to now, it's stretching so far.

if you missed the line where megan said she packed dons bag for bobbys camp the following scene is a little bizarre

i missed it the first time around i was a bit loaded

I must have missed this, I don't remember it at all.

I still don't know where Sally was, why Bobby was at a camp (or what camp it was), why Don is there at all (doesn't he usually skip these things?), and why Betty was smiling. There was no phone conversation where Betty angrily told Don he had to show up at a camp for x reason (like when she calls about Don needing to pick up the kids, drop something off, etc.). We're just left to assume Don said okay without issue? Did he actually want to go?

If Betty orchestrated the entire plot to smile, be nice etc. from the time she woke up that morning just to get laid okay fine but there has been no suggestion she's ever been interested in that which is why it caught me off guard. I seems like a complete out of character, jump the shark moment.
 
I got this but why the Peggy ex-boyfriend? Wasn't he a washed up drunk last time we saw him? Maybe I'm forgetting another appearance. It just seemed random to me, I thought he was gone from the show already. Like if Pete talks to Sal, it's like where did he come from all of a sudden...
Sal doesn't have the long history of trying to recruit Pete that Duck does though. This goes back to Season 2 (when Duck made Pete head of accounts) and Season 3 (when Duck tried to poach Pete and Peggy).
 

Angry Fork

Member
Thanks for the answers, a lot clearer now. The episode was so weird to me though I wasn't engaged in any of the scenes except Abe/Peggy's.

Maybe I was expecting another Don-centric episode, as it felt like the last few were hugely focused on him and on a collision course.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Duck was never Peggy's boyfriend, they just slept together and he had a drunken crush on her. Before that even he was a major part of the plot prior to the original buyout of Sterling Cooper.

Even if you don't understand that bit the episode itself still has Harry talk to Pete about testing the waters and going to a headhunter to check on his status if he is unhappy with SCDP right now. Also Megan mentions packing Don for the summer camp visit. Sally isn't there because its a boys summer camp. Don met Betty at the gas station because they were both headed to the same camp.
 
This seems like a rather odd episode to have such hatred for, especially on the heels of last week's ep, which is undoubtedly the most divisive episode of Mad Men ever.

This week's was tame by comparison.
 
regarding Mr. Benson: Isn't his actor a major character on a new network show starring Robin Williams & Sarah Michelle Gellar?

I know Alison Brie pulls double duty on Community, but her role on Mad Men is pretty small - she doesn't show up more than 3 or 4 times in any given season. Benson has, so far, been in every episode. I'm getting the sense SOMETHING is going to happen by the end of this season that either removes Mr. Benson completely, or sidelines him to a point where his role on the show is reduced greatly.
 
This seems like a rather odd episode to have such hatred for, especially on the heels of last week's ep, which is undoubtedly the most divisive episode of Mad Men ever.

This week's was tame by comparison.
You can really see how the show's changed since S1 when an episode with a couple of awkward lesbian smooches, a violent harpooning, and Bunson's short shorts is considered "tame"
lol.gif
 

Fatalah

Member
This seems like a rather odd episode to have such hatred for, especially on the heels of last week's ep, which is undoubtedly the most divisive episode of Mad Men ever.

This week's was tame by comparison.

Don't worry about Angry Fork, he watched a sock-puppet reenactment of this week's episode.
 

JCizzle

Member
Holy shit Peggy I feels for you. That was ice fucking cold all around for her.

Love the family scenes and Don was hilarious.
 

jtb

Banned
Good ep. Definitely felt like a return to Mad Men's usual pace... especially after the start of the season, which was pretty slow, and then the more experimental stuff (the merger, the long weekend, etc.). I don't know where they're taking the Bob Benson character, but the show has really won me over on him and has done a good job slowly integrating him from the periphery.

Plus, no flashbacks!
 
I really enjoyed how self aware Betty was in this episode. Hell, this whole season has been a massive improvement for the character. The pillow talk between Don and Betty was probably my favourite part of the episode. It highlighted how far Betty has come in regards to internalizing and interpreting the world (and her role in it) in more ways than "infantilized trophy wife." The fact that she was the one consoling Don like a child (and in a nice switch, wasn't condescending about it) just made it all the sweeter. Don is in a perpetual state of decay, and there's Betty growing as a person. I really do wonder if this season ends with Don Draper's "death" and Dick Whitman finally coming up for air.

Also, why the hell did Peggy assume that because Ted likes her, that he'd leave his wife for her? If anything, Ted has shown to be a far more moral and well adjusted person than anyone on this show. Maybe even more than Ken Cosgrove. I'm not sure why she'd expect that man to sweep her off her feet and elope to Reno or whatever it was people did in the late 60s. That has never seemed like the kind of thing Ted would do. I think Peg has been around the SCDP people for far too long.
 

jtb

Banned
hopefully it ends with don draper's death period. fuck dick whitman.

I like Don but his character hasn't been the main attraction of Mad Men for a while now.
 

JCizzle

Member
I really enjoyed how self aware Betty was in this episode. Hell, this whole season has been a massive improvement for the character. The pillow talk between Don and Betty was probably my favourite part of the episode. It highlighted how far Betty has come in regards to internalizing and interpreting the world (and her role in it) in more ways than "infantilized trophy wife." The fact that she was the one consoling Don like a child (and in a nice switch, wasn't condescending about it) just made it all the sweeter. Don is in a perpetual state of decay, and there's Betty growing as a person. I really do wonder if this season ends with Don Draper's "death" and Dick Whitman finally coming up for air.

Also, why the hell did Peggy assume that because Ted likes her, that he'd leave his wife for her? If anything, Ted has shown to be a far more moral and well adjusted person than anyone on this show. Maybe even more than Ken Cosgrove. I'm not sure why she'd expect that man to sweep her off her feet and elope to Reno or whatever it was people did in the late 60s. That has never seemed like the kind of thing Ted would do. I think Peg has been around the SCDP people for far too long.

Didn't he say something along the lines of "I've thought about our situations and even much further than that" implying that he's considering leaving his wife?
 

maharg

idspispopd
I really enjoyed how self aware Betty was in this episode. Hell, this whole season has been a massive improvement for the character. The pillow talk between Don and Betty was probably my favourite part of the episode. It highlighted how far Betty has come in regards to internalizing and interpreting the world (and her role in it) in more ways than "infantilized trophy wife." The fact that she was the one consoling Don like a child (and in a nice switch, wasn't condescending about it) just made it all the sweeter. Don is in a perpetual state of decay, and there's Betty growing as a person. I really do wonder if this season ends with Don Draper's "death" and Dick Whitman finally coming up for air.

Also, why the hell did Peggy assume that because Ted likes her, that he'd leave his wife for her? If anything, Ted has shown to be a far more moral and well adjusted person than anyone on this show. Maybe even more than Ken Cosgrove. I'm not sure why she'd expect that man to sweep her off her feet and elope to Reno or whatever it was people did in the late 60s. That has never seemed like the kind of thing Ted would do. I think Peg has been around the SCDP people for far too long.

Eh. I don't think Ted is so obviously moral, and I don't think Peggy was looking for him to elope (or even necessarily make out) with her in that final scene either. I think she just expected to get some genuine human empathy from him in a hard situation and all she got was Mr Boss Man.
 
Didn't he say something along the lines of "I've thought about our situations and even much further than that" implying that he's considering leaving his wife?

Yeah Ted did say that. I didn't take it as him saying he'd leave his wife, though. Plenty of people meet someone new, take a fancy, and fantasize about what life would be like with that person. When things are tough or a person is stuck in a particular rut, the thought of leaving one's spouse enters the picture at some point. For some people it's a thought and nothing more, and for others it obviously leads to a confrontation. I don't think the latter is the case with Ted. That said, it was the wrong thing to say to Peggy in hindsight. I think Ted was being refreshingly honest (for this show) about what he was feeling. Ted being honest with how he felt was, I think, part of what attracted Peggy to him. He was like Don, except emotionally open and available.

Eh. I don't think Ted is so obviously moral, and I don't think Peggy was looking for him to elope (or even necessarily make out) with her in that final scene either. I think she just expected to get some genuine human empathy from him in a hard situation and all she got was Mr Boss Man.

You're right about that. I didn't choose my words carefully. The thing about the scene that led me to my point was the earnest look in Peggy's eyes. She told Ted about her breakup and the look on her face read, to me, clearly that she was waiting for him to make some kind of move on it. I think Ted's response of "Mister Boss Man" was his way of gently shutting her down from pursuing some kind of romantic entanglement with him. I could be misreading her intentions completely, but the way she's pined after men in the past led me to believe my interpretation of events.

Furthermore, I think, the most telling is the final shot of the scene itself. We see Peggy leaving Ted's office after facing rejection and immediately heading for Don. I don't think Peggy was conscious of that, but I do think she has a tendency to run toward other people for validation of her worth. Whether it was Don or Ted or Abe or Duck, Peggy's long list of relationships comes down to seeking validation for her work, hercreativity, and perhaps most of all her value as a woman. It makes sense that after facing a horrible rejection from Abe (that shit was ice fucking cold), she sought someone to validate her sense of self worth, and when she was denied again, she found herself continuing down the conga line of male idols.

There is hope, though. She stopped herself and contemplated what she was doing. I think the final shot of the episode is a positive one. I think it represents her realization that she can't continue pining for validation from others.

Again, I could be misinterpreting everything, but I think it makes sense on the whole.
 

Linius

Member
I'M OUT.

http://www.abload.de/img/madmenimoutu9brt.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

[img]http://i.picpar.com/aqp.gif

Soooo, that was a great episode :D

Bob Benson is such an odd guy. Loved his swimming shorts :lol

Roger put in to place by his daughter, pretty cruel to him. Don 'reconnecting' with Betty in a way I never expected but still made perfect sense given the circumstances. Peggy and Abe went out with a bang you could say. Yep, liked this very much.

Oh and Bob again with the same coffee cups as always cracked me up :p
 
As a kid, I always remembered them playing up the supposed health benefits of margarine. I'm surprised they didn't go with that.

Of course, it turns out it's worse for you.
 
I never understood the Abe/Peggy romance. Abe thought so little of what she did. I guess Peggy thought it was better than being alone.

I do love how they keep insulting Megan for finding soap opera scripts so demanding.

Harry still thinks he's gonna be made partner. Its going to be delicious when that blows up in his sideburns.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Well, at least she got to stab this one.

I hope somehow Peggy is the last one standing out of these animals. Girl is just lost in a sea of inhuman jerkoffs!

Last episode should just be her spearing motherfuckers at SCDP...LSSSJ@#(*&@(* whatever the fuck the company names end up as :p
 
I never understood the Abe/Peggy romance. Abe thought so little of what she did. I guess Peggy thought it was better than being alone.

Peggy has always been torn between the 60s counterculture and her desire to succeed in the ad world. Her relationship with Abe was the manifestation of this.

Abe is a hypocritical idealist, admirably concerned about racial inequality but oblivious to gender inequality. He was unconcerned about Peggy's struggles to succeed in the advertising because he found her entire industry reprehensible. What he failed to grasp in his ignorance is that Peggy, as a progressive woman, had the potential to change the industry in ways he would have admired. But he was too arrogant and pig-headed (and perhaps sexist) to see any of this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom