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Made what I think is a pretty decent Elf deck ...

4x Arbor Elf
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Copperhorn Scout
4x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Joraga Warcaller
1x Viridian Corrupter
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Fauna Shaman
3x Vengevine (Could only get 3, pulled 1 out of a draft, could only afford 2 more on MTGO)

4x Lead the Stampede
4x Green Sun's Zenith

19x Forests

Its very vulnerable to removal ... but even then ... I usually get enough elves out with mana generating abilities and I can just replace what was removed.

I don't have a sideboard at all ... not sure what I should add.

But I get so many damn elves so fast that I often overwhelm my opponents ... specially when I have a few Archdruids and Ezuri out with his +3/+3 trample.
 
Macattk15 said:
Made what I think is a pretty decent Elf deck ...

4x Arbor Elf
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Copperhorn Scout
4x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Joraga Warcaller
1x Viridian Corrupter
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Fauna Shaman
3x Vengevine (Could only get 3, pulled 1 out of a draft, could only afford 2 more on MTGO)

4x Lead the Stampede
4x Green Sun's Zenith

19x Forests

I don't have a sideboard at all ... not sure what I should add.

But I get so many damn elves so fast that I often overwhelm my opponents ... specially when I have a few Archdruids and Ezuri out with his +3/+3 trample.
How much have you played this deck? I'd think you'd run into a problem with drawing multiple Ezuri's, since you've got 4.
 
The_Technomancer said:
How much have you played this deck? I'd think you'd run into a problem with drawing multiple Ezuri's, since you've got 4.

I've played a bit with it ... if I ever have another in my hand while one is on the board and stays ... I use the Fauna Shaman to eat them and spit out things I want. He almost always gets removed the first time I put him out.

Thinking about adding more Warcallers and some Primal Cocoons ... or maybe throw in some of my Ascectisms.
 
I played a "Stoneblade" Legacy list at my shop over the weekend for a tournament and was horrified at how awful the deck was to play. It was a good deck with huge amounts of raw power, a nut draw, and stomps on anything that stumbles with their draws at all, but it's horrible to actually pilot. I hate the thing.

I'm just going to play loam decks until people start playing combo again.
 
Macattk15 said:
I've played a bit with it ... if I ever have another in my hand while one is on the board and stays ... I use the Fauna Shaman to eat them and spit out things I want. He almost always gets removed the first time I put him out.

Thinking about adding more Warcallers and some Primal Cocoons ... or maybe throw in some of my Ascectisms.
Haha, I guess that works then.

Kikoskia said:
Hey, a Magic thread. I used to play Magic FAR too much when I was younger. Maybe I should dig up my old blue deck...

And hi, I'm new.

Welcome!
 
V_Arnold said:
Thanks! Wont sell then, maybe he will go up with the new block. Or not.

Big Red is one of the strongest block decks and Koth is the heart and soul of that deck. If block can be looked at as a an indicator of what the new standard will be like, then Koth should at least stay at his current price, if not rise.

The one hitch to all of this is that Scars block is, relatively speaking, a "weak" block in power level. If Innistrad continues Wizard's efforts to tone down the power of cards following Lorwyn's insane color fixing/BB/Cryptic/etc., Zendikar's fetches/Jace, and so on, then Big Red should be a big player in standard. If, however, Innistrad turns out to be stronger than Scars- and it is a definite possibility given Scars' power level- then its mechanics will dominate the standard environment and block will prove to be a pretty poor reflection of the metagame, potentially driving Koth's value down.

Fragamemnon said:
I played a "Stoneblade" Legacy list at my shop over the weekend for a tournament and was horrified at how awful the deck was to play. It was a good deck with huge amounts of raw power, a nut draw, and stomps on anything that stumbles with their draws at all, but it's horrible to actually pilot. I hate the thing.

I'm just going to play loam decks until people start playing combo again.

What's the deal with Loam's return? I saw it top that SCG Open about a week or so ago and was pleasantly surprised. Has the meta's post-Misstep slowdown made it a viable option again?

Wish my shop would get its Legacy scene started already. I feel like I'm more familiar with the format than any non-Commander format despite having never actually played a match of it.
 
Orayn said:
Looks like we're exactly one card away from having the full spoiler of M12. Once we have that last card, would anyone be interested in me generating some boosters for us to practice Sealed Deck, as a community? It's one of my favorite ways to get ready for the prerelease, but if you guys prefer a little more mystery that's fine too.
I'm interested but am clueless as to how this works. Do I need anything?
 
Not at all. He'll just need to find an updated sealed deck generator online (Booster Me is what I've used in the past) and provide us with the sample packs. Everyone is free to use generators as many times as they want on their own, of course, but, for this exercise, we would be all trying to build from one specific pool just to see the differences in perspective.
 
It seems that some people in here are pretty adept at deckbuilding. I'm still running with my M12 only pauper deck idea, and here is what I've come up with: I'm thinking of going red/white with Griffin Rider, Griffin Sentinel and Assault Griffin being a main focus. Red would provide burn to control creatures and put the game away. Any thoughts? Love it? Hate it?

Edit: I have a list drawn up, but it uses an incomplete spoiler list. There might be some necessary changes once the whole list is up. (I heard one was out there, but I can't get it at work)
 
traveler said:
Big Red is one of the strongest block decks and Koth is the heart and soul of that deck. If block can be looked at as a an indicator of what the new standard will be like, then Koth should at least stay at his current price, if not rise.

The one hitch to all of this is that Scars block is, relatively speaking, a "weak" block in power level. If Innistrad continues Wizard's efforts to tone down the power of cards following Lorwyn's insane color fixing/BB/Cryptic/etc., Zendikar's fetches/Jace, and so on, then Big Red should be a big player in standard. If, however, Innistrad turns out to be stronger than Scars- and it is a definite possibility given Scars' power level- then its mechanics will dominate the standard environment and block will prove to be a pretty poor reflection of the metagame, potentially driving Koth's value down.

Thanks for the info, yeah, just after saying what I did, I started thinking, that mabye Wizards will release its imagination once again, introducing the new dual-colored planeswalkers, and in that world, plus the new M12 trio, Koth might lose its strenght. So far, he looks stronger than Chandra, that is for sure. But if they introduce that rumored blue/red guy, mono-red might lose its appeal for many. Especially non-Valakut :P
 
^ Chandra is easily splashable at 3R. I imagine she'd fit pretty well in a UR deck, especially with her -2 ability.

I'm really excited about Richard Garfield being on the design staff for Innistrad. So many players consider Ravnica as one of the best blocks ever, and I never got a chance to play it. We've seen the UR walker, but I can't wait to see the new Liliana and GB Garruk (assuming we see GB Garruk at all).

Orayn, I'm in on the sealed deck stuff! I want to win some packs this Saturday.
 
traveler said:
What's the deal with Loam's return? I saw it top that SCG Open about a week or so ago and was pleasantly surprised. Has the meta's post-Misstep slowdown made it a viable option again?

That Aggro Loam deck was bizzare. However, he was running the following very strong non-blue strategies in this format:

1) Punishing Fire/Grove of the Burnwillows
2) Sylvan Library/Dark Confidant

Fire/Groves basically puts a clock on people if the game goes long (which those jerk-around standstill/ancestral visions decks tend to do) and also handles decks that want to get there with 2 toughness creatures like Merfolk. Library is probably one of the best cards to fight control in this format, you just get to draw so many cards between the plows on your dudes and them not putting any pressure on you.

Loam strategies are at their best when people play minimal-or ineffective-gravehate, and when fast combo decks are less numerous. Now that slower blue control or tempo decks are getting more and more popular, loam decks, which easily can out card advantage blue control decks in a long game, have some room to shine.

Three underrated cards in Legacy:

1) Ancient Grudge - Arguably the best sideboard card in the format. Null Rod gets honorable mention.
2) Elspeth, Knight-Errant - It has been said that for four mana in Legacy, you should be able to win the game. This card does that against all the blue decks in the format. It's so much better at doing this than anything else.
3) Peacekeeper - I see people playing Jace decks with white but without Peacekeeper in the sideboard. This is pretty bad, this card is huge amounts of dumb and easy to keep alive against decks that board out removal against you.

Honorable mentions go to the blood moon cards and Price of Progress.
 
Macattk15 said:
Made what I think is a pretty decent Elf deck ...

4x Arbor Elf
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Copperhorn Scout
4x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Joraga Warcaller
1x Viridian Corrupter
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Fauna Shaman
3x Vengevine (Could only get 3, pulled 1 out of a draft, could only afford 2 more on MTGO)

4x Lead the Stampede
4x Green Sun's Zenith

19x Forests

Its very vulnerable to removal ... but even then ... I usually get enough elves out with mana generating abilities and I can just replace what was removed.

I don't have a sideboard at all ... not sure what I should add.

But I get so many damn elves so fast that I often overwhelm my opponents ... specially when I have a few Archdruids and Ezuri out with his +3/+3 trample.


I love elf decks, the one I play is

4x Llanwar elves
4x fyndhorn elves
2x Rofellos
4x Arcdruids
4x Priest of Titania
4x Joraga Treespeaker
4x Natural Order
4x Summoning Trap
4x Lotus Petal
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Progenitus
1x Vorninclex
1x Ezuri
1x Avenger of Zendikar


It's easily beat with the right deck, but it's still fun as hell to play. Busting out a turn two Natural order (with lotus petal helping) to grab progenitus will ruin anyones day.
 
Fragamemnon said:
Three underrated cards in Legacy:

1) Ancient Grudge - Arguably the best sideboard card in the format. Null Rod gets honorable mention.
2) Elspeth, Knight-Errant - It has been said that for four mana in Legacy, you should be able to win the game. This card does that against all the blue decks in the format. It's so much better at doing this than anything else.
3) Peacekeeper - I see people playing Jace decks with white but without Peacekeeper in the sideboard. This is pretty bad, this card is huge amounts of dumb and easy to keep alive against decks that board out removal against you.

Honorable mentions go to the blood moon cards and Price of Progress.

Brian DeMars has an article on SCG today in which he lavishes over Ancient Grudge in Vintage. I recomend a read since he's a good author, but AG is definitely a very underrated card.

Elspeth and Peacekeeper are also both fantastic. Elspeth works excellently with a bit of other removal vs stuff like Junk, since they play so few creatures and Elspeth can almost singlehandidly stop them cold, and Peacekeeper completely stops something like Merfolk if it drops (although Dismember makes that a bit riskier now).
 
I picked up a playset of Peacekeepers recently because they are so badass. I play on working on a white control deck with some white planeswalkers, oblivion rings, runed halos, and various other "fuck you deck" stuff. Probably throw in those Grand Abolishers as well.
 
I like these two cards:
5lmvqdu0pw_en.jpg
hq7ffut58u_en.jpg


The Spider effectively reads "target creature can't attack or block as long as this card is tapped", and the fact that you can tutor for the web at instant speed is cool.
 
I used to play magic a few years back and still have a few decks I put together that I believe kick ass. I have two Baneslayers, which probably doesn’t do much nowadays but I do miss playing. It’s pretty fun challenging your friends and competing in mini tournaments.

:-P
 
Fragamemnon said:
That Aggro Loam deck was bizzare. However, he was running the following very strong non-blue strategies in this format:

1) Punishing Fire/Grove of the Burnwillows
2) Sylvan Library/Dark Confidant

Fire/Groves basically puts a clock on people if the game goes long (which those jerk-around standstill/ancestral visions decks tend to do) and also handles decks that want to get there with 2 toughness creatures like Merfolk. Library is probably one of the best cards to fight control in this format, you just get to draw so many cards between the plows on your dudes and them not putting any pressure on you.

Loam strategies are at their best when people play minimal-or ineffective-gravehate, and when fast combo decks are less numerous. Now that slower blue control or tempo decks are getting more and more popular, loam decks, which easily can out card advantage blue control decks in a long game, have some room to shine.

Three underrated cards in Legacy:

1) Ancient Grudge - Arguably the best sideboard card in the format. Null Rod gets honorable mention.
2) Elspeth, Knight-Errant - It has been said that for four mana in Legacy, you should be able to win the game. This card does that against all the blue decks in the format. It's so much better at doing this than anything else.
3) Peacekeeper - I see people playing Jace decks with white but without Peacekeeper in the sideboard. This is pretty bad, this card is huge amounts of dumb and easy to keep alive against decks that board out removal against you.

Honorable mentions go to the blood moon cards and Price of Progress.

I did think it looked a bit unusual. I mean, isn't seismic assault a pretty heavy part of the archetype? He wasn't running it at all. I guess the grove/punishing fire package took its place. Seems a lot easier to be able to use any land to shock rather than having to have the grove onboard, especially when your best grove target- merfolk- runs 4 wasteland. Guess it worked out for him, though.

Between this, dredge creeping back into good standings, and ceph. Breakfast, I wonder if gy hate will see a resurgence in sideboards.
 
Mistik10102 said:
I used to play magic a few years back and still have a few decks I put together that I believe kick ass. I have two Baneslayers, which probably doesn’t do much nowadays but I do miss playing. It’s pretty fun challenging your friends and competing in mini tournaments.

:-P
Baneslayer still totally rocks man, they haven't crept the game up that much.
 
Its still on the high end of the power curve, but titans definitely outclass it nowadays and it's straightforward liferace mindset just isn't as good as the other degenerate things you could do in the format. (ie stoneforge/batterskull, exarch/twin)
 
www.magicdraftsim.com has sealed and draft simulators for m12 up now. I know there was some talk earlier about wanting to do a group sealed so I went ahead and generated a pool. This is the first pool that came up, so it's the one I'll work with. Rares are bolded. Here ya go:

Black:

Duskhunter Bat x2
Vengeful Pharaoh
Zombie Goliath x2
Gravedigger
Bloodrage Vampire x2
Distress
Consume Spirit x2
Dark Favor x2
Doom Blade
Child of Night
Reassembling Skeleton
Blood Seeker
Wring Flesh

Green:

Titanic Growth
Carnage Wurm
Greater Basilisk
Giant Spider
Sacred Wolf
Trollhide
Vastwood Gorger
Naturalize x3
Reclaim
Fog

Red:

Wall of Torches x2
Flameblast Dragon
Fiery Hellhound x2
Act of Treason
Slaughter Cry x2
Manic Vandal
Combust
Incinerate
Goblin War Paint
Fireball
Goblin Arsonist
Shock

Blue:

Phantasmal Image
Jace, Memory Adept

Chasm Drake
Master Thief x2
Divination
Jace's Erasure x4
Mana Leak
Belltower Sphinx
Merfolk Looter
Negate
Coral Merfolk
Phantasmal Bear
Unsummon

White:

Armored Warhorse x2
Serra Angel
Siege Mastodon x2
Arbalest Elite
Day of Judgment
Assault Griffin
Griffin Sentinel
Celestial Purge
Stormfront Pegasus
Stave Off
Lifelink
Gideon's Lawkeeper

Artifacts/Land

Rusted Sentinel
Greatsword
Manalith
Swiftfoot Boots
Demon's Horn x2
Scepter of Empires
Rootbound Crag

Imo, this is a very solid pool. Every single one of the rares- excluding the Crag- is good, if not amazing in limited. The trick here is figuring out which direction we want to go, since we have a pretty even split in quality across the colors. That's where the discussion comes in. I'll tag my own thoughts on how to build it in case you guys want to go in with a fresh mind and decide how you'd do it before seeing someone else's opinion.

First thing that catches my eye is the Pharaoh. Aside from sideboard worthy removal like Celestial Purge, he's basically an unkillable bomb that kills your opponents bombs. That seems downright ridiculous. As such, I really want to go with black. Let's look at the playables in black:

Vengeful Pharaoh- Everything I said above. Has great synergy with an off color bomb.

Duskhunter Bat- A flying 1/1 for 2 is playable, albeit mediocre. A flying 2/2 for 2 in black, though? That's definitely worth putting in the deck. We've got 2 of these guys, so let's keep an eye for cards that help us activate bloodthirst early.

Blood Seeker- Dude was a beast in Zendikar limited, but that was a very different format. I dunno how he'll play out here.

Wring Flesh- killing x/1s was great in Scars block, but core set dorks tend to be much bigger. Can still kill as a combat trick/fog at worst. Probably going in if we go black.

Reassembling Skeleton- The blocker that doesn't die. Also has synergy with a major bomb in another color, so I'm thinking he'll go in.

Consume Spirit- Amazing in mono-black, good in 2 color, playable in 2 color plus splash. It's removal/reach, so it's going in.

Doom Blade- Do I really need to say anything here?

Gravedigger- A bear with some value seems fine to me. Also has synergy with the aforementioned off color bomb.

Bloodrage Vampire- These guys are super aggressive, but vulnerable. Easily turned on by our double bats and the copious amounts of burn in our pool. They'll die to any blocker, but, on the bright side, they'll probably kill it in the process. That's playable enough for me.

I'm not a fan of duress type effects in limited, where they're absolutely awful top decks and not even guaranteed to hit gold in your opening hand. The fact that distress can't even be cast turn 1 makes me more wary. We could always sb it in if we see that our opp has a very hard to deal with bomb, though. Dark favor is an aura that doesn't really do enough for me. The goliaths are playable if we don't have anything better but, given our pool, that seems unlikely. Child of Night could be playable, but I'm hoping we'll have something better there as well. So, here's what I'm thinking if we go black:

1cc
Wring Flesh

2cc
Duskhunter Bat x2
Blood Seeker
Reassembling Skeleton

Doom Blade
Consume Spirit (in cmc, at least) x2

3cc
Bloodrage Vampire x2

4cc
Gravedigger

5cc
Vengeful Pharaoh

That's 11 playables, ranging from solid to great, with 8 creatures. Definitely seems good enough to be one of our colors.

Green stands out to me only as the weakest color of our pool. Weeding down which of the 4 decent colors we'll want to play seems hard enough to me as is, so I think I'll write green off entirely.

Red has sick bombs in Flameblast Dragon and Fireball, as well as 3 other burn spells- one of which is conditional. Shock and Incinerate have pretty good synergy with our bats and vamps in addition to being good as is, so that's another plus. The pool gets pretty shallow after that, though. Manic vandal is a sb only card and, with red definitely being a secondary color at best, the hellhounds are out. Wall of Torches seem good in a controlling late game deck, but given how aggressive the rest of the red is, as well as our black, I dunno if we want them. As a result, I think our red playable pool is:

Flameblast Dragon
Fireball
Incinerate
Shock
~Wall of Torches x2

The burn spells could be splashed as a third color, but I dunno about the Dragon. He's such an amazing bomb that I really want to run him. I just don't know if I can justify it. I'll look at the other colors first before deciding.

Well, obvious thing in blue is Jace. Not only is he a tempting mythic pw, he's also one of the best pws ever printed for limited. 3 activations of his 0 ability kills your opponent and his first ability is perfectly fine on its own. How is the rest of the color though?

Phantasmal Image- Seems great to me. A really cheap clone effect that dies to something that would probably kill it anyway. Side out against lawkeepers/crowns/etc. but keep it in against the rest.

Chasm Drake- 3/3 flyers for 5 are fine. The bonus evasion for another guy is gravy.

Divination- Playable.

Merfolk Looter- Looters have always been fine in limited.

Belltower Sphinx- A flying 2/5 for 5 is slightly undercurve on power, but this dude walls the sky like no other and has great synergy with Jace.

Jace's Erasure- Normally, this thing is unplayable, but, given that we have the man himself available and that we have FOUR of these, they definitely seem viable.

Mana Leak- Playable.

Blue doesn't do much for our black or red, but it does present an appealing chance to go mill. Jace and the Sphinx are obviously amazing/solid on their own, but I am pretty wary about running 4 cards that essentially do nothing unless I hit the jackpot and pull Jace/run the game long enough. There's a mill deck that's about as good as you can ever hope for in sealed here, but I dunno if I want to take it. Let's take a peek at the last color: white.

Day of Judgment is the real deal here. Great on its own and even better with our Pharaoh, Skeleton, and Gravedigger. Once again, we gotta check out the rest of the pool:

Serra Angel- Power creep has robbed her of constructed potency, but the angel is still a limited haymaker.

Arbalest Elite- Expensive and slow, but very good at killing the bigger dudes pingers normally can't. I'd play him.

Assault Griffin- Aggressive flyer that's perfectly fine.

Stormfront Pegasus- Another aggressive flyer. Comes down at just the right time to get our vamps online.

Gideon's Lawkeeper- Tappers are always playable and this guy is a bargain. If you drop him turn 1, he can also activate our bats.

Stave Off- one of the few combat tricks in the set I'd like to play

It's also worth mentioning that Celestial purge is a fantastic sideboard card.

After review, I think white is our second strongest color, despite red's amazing dragon. Here's what my build currently looks like:

1cc
Gideon's Lawkeeper

Wring Flesh
Stave Off

2cc
Duskhunter Bat x2
Blood Seeker
Reassembling Skeleton
Stormfront Pegasus

Doom Blade
Consume Spirit (in cmc, at least) x2

3cc
Bloodrage Vampire x2

4cc
Gravedigger
Assault Griffin
Arbalest Elite

Day of Judgment

5cc
Vengeful Pharaoh
Serra Angel

That's 19 playables, with 13 creatures. We'll look to splashes and the artifacts to round out our build.

The sword, boots, and manalith are all playable. I think we definitely throw the boots in. We don't really need ramp, but if we want to splash red, I think the manalith is good include. We'll throw in fireball for sure and I think our curve is low enough that, with the manalith included, we can go 16 lands instead of the more traditional 17. Incinerate will get the last spot.

Here's my final build:

1cc
Gideon's Lawkeeper

Wring Flesh
Stave Off
Fireball

2cc
Duskhunter Bat x2
Blood Seeker
Reassembling Skeleton
Stormfront Pegasus

Doom Blade
Incinerate
Consume Spirit (in cmc, at least) x2
Swiftfoot Boots

3cc
Bloodrage Vampire x2

Manalith
Greatsword

4cc
Gravedigger
Assault Griffin
Arbalest Elite

Day of Judgment

5cc
Vengeful Pharaoh
Serra Angel

16 lands. (1 or 2 of which we'll be mountains)

I think this deck came together very well. I would feel pretty great to be playing something like this come Saturday. (It's a pretty telling sign you have a good pool when you get a flameblast dragon and a jace in your pool and you don't even end up running them.)

Enough of my thoughts- what do you guys think of the pool? Good? Bad? Do you think my deck is a good way to do it? How would you build it? Can mill be done? Have at it.
 
M12 is completely spoiled, and it looks like a lot of fun for a core set. I'm still miffed that they arent reprinting Lightning Bolt, but overall it looks great. I cant wait for the prereleases this weekend.
 
Okay, lets see what my sealed pool gives me:

Black

Hideous Visage
Vengeful Pharaoh
Zombie Goliath x4
Devouring Swarm x2
Warpath Ghoul x2
Bloodrage Vampire
Darkhunter Bat
Distress
Bloodseeker
Deathmark
Tormented Soul
Wring Flesh x2

Green
Rampant Growth x3
Llanowar Elves x2
Vastwood Gorger x2
Greater Basilisk
Lurking Crocodile
Acidic Slime
Brindle Boar
Trollhide
Naturalize
Garruk's Companion
Fog

Red
Incinerate x3
Act of Treason x2
Goblin Grenade
Shock
Fling
Slaughter Cry
Reverberate
Fiery Hellhound
Chandra's Phoenix
Bonebreaker Giant
Goblin Tunneler

Blue
Jace, Memory Adept
Phantasmal Bear
Skywinder Drake
Icy Cage
Azure Mage
Turn to Frog
Belltower Sphinx
Jace's Archivist
Aether Adept
Amphin Cuthroat
Frost Breath

White
Grand Abolisher
Siege Mastodon x3
Guardian's Pledge x2
Timely Reinforcements
Auramancer
Mighty Leap
Alabaster Mage
Spirit Mantle
Pacifism
Stave Off
Pride Guardian

Artifact
Manalith x3
Kraken's Eye x3
Dragon's Claw
Demon's Horn
Crown of Empires
Rusted Sentinel
Swiftfoot Boots
Crumbling Colossus

Island x2
Forest
Swamp x3


Here are my thoughts:
Unfortunately I have very few cards that I can build around. There's not a lot of focus in this pool, but I've got a few ideas.

I really want to build around Jace, but blue is definitely my weakest color. The only instant speed removal that can take out Jace in M12 is Fling, so 90% of the time that I play I'm going to get the 10 card mill off. If I can 10 card mill twice and use the Archivist's ability a few times then milling my opponent out definitely becomes a viable strategy. I'm wary to go down this route though, because its dependent on a lot of ifs.

Well lets look at what else I've got

Red is definitely my strongest pool, I've got lots of removal and those Act of Treasons could swing the game. Its a shame I only have one Fling, because I could run a R/G deck and take advantage of the acceleration I've got to get out Vastwood Gorgers to fling.

Okay, what else can we combo with Red? Well that Pharaoh is sexy as hell, and we've got a lot of ways to activate Bloodthirst. Yeah, I think I'm going to run B/R.
First pass:

RED
1cc
Shock

2cc
Incinerate
Incinerate
Incinerate
Reverberate

3cc
Chandra's Phoenix
Act of Treason
Act of Treason

BLACK
1cc
Wring Flesh
Wring Flesh

2cc
Blood Seeker
Darkhunter Bat
Distress

3cc
Bloodrage Vampire
Devouring Swarm
Devouring Swarm

5cc
Vengeful Pharaoh

ARTIFACT
Swiftfoot Boots


Okay, thats 18 cards. I need a few more to flesh this deck out though. Well, I don't have a lot of options. I've got a lot of vanilla bodies. I could throw in the Bonebreaker Giant and three Zombie Goliaths. Maybe I can splash green though. I do have a lot of acceleration. Lets throw in two Rampant Growths, a Trollhide, a Greater Basilisk as well as two Manaliths.

So on top of the above deck
GREEN
Rampant Growth x2
Trollhide x1
Greater Basilisk

ARTIFACT
Manalith x2

LAND
Forest x4
Mountain x6
Swamp x6

Okay, I'm...not thrilled about this deck, but it could be worse. Between the Manalith's and the Rampant Growths I'm not worried about color fixing at all, so I should be able to play most of what I need. There's still not a lot of focus though. The Phoenix and the Pharaoh are both really good beaters, and I suspect I'll be riding them to most victories. I've got a fair number of creatures and removal to hold down the board, and I'll definitely be sideboarding Deathmark and Hideous Visage. The second one in particular is definitely going in against any non-black decks.

The biggest problem I have is that I feel like I shouldn't be splashing green, but everything else in Red and Black is borderline useless. Fortunately I have so little genuine sideboard material that I can swap out the green entirely if need be. I'm open to any advice or suggestions.
 
-I would definitely go black with yours.
-Devouring Swarm + Pharaoh is a neat trick that'll let you kill attackers with Pharaoh on the field.
-The thing is, nearly all of your blue cards are playable, so it wouldn't be unthinkable to run them. Jace is your biggest bomb alongside the Pharaoh too, so that really makes it tempting.
-I see why you went for red, but I dunno how good act of treason really can be at sorcery speed and reverberate is pretty conditional. Still, three incinerates and a chandra's phoenix seem pretty good.
-You got a ton of ramp between the growths and your liths but nothing to really ramp to. I guess it's worth it for fixing, though.
-Regardless of how you did the colors, the crown is playable. You're not so swamped with solid dudes as to not be able to run it. It's an expensive tapper, but a tapper nonetheless. I'd probably pull an act for it with your current build.

Also, nothing against technomancer and I don't want to force my pool on everyone, but do you guys just want to build off the same pools we have to compare and contrast? If we all do a different pool, sure, it'll be a more like the prerelease, but there's not as much discussion in everyone doing multiple pools as opposed to seeing how everyone would build the same pool. I'd like to know what you'd pick differently from me within the same pool and why. See if you can find tricks and synergies that I missed. If we feel like we've hit an optimal build with one pool or kind of run out of discussion, we can generate another and start over.
 
Luck be a lady this afternoon! (I hope.)

White:
Siege Mastodon
Stonehorn Dignitary
Assault Griffin
Roc Egg
Personal Sanctuary
Oblivion Ring
Griffin Sentinel
Auramancer
Demystify
Stave Off
Pride Guardian
Lifelink
Gideon's Lawkeeper
Gideon's Lawkeeper

Comments:
Mixed bag. Stonehorn Dignitary, Roc Egg, both griffins, and the double Lawkeeper are pretty nice on the creature front, but there's much else besides the O-Ring.

Blue:
Mind Unbound
Chasm Drake
Belltower Sphinx
Aven Fleetwing
Amphin Cutthroat
Cancel
AEther Adept
Frost Breath
Divination
Turn to Frog
Negate
Ice Cage
Coral Merfolk
Alluring Siren
Skywinder Drake
Ponder

Comments:
I'm not quite sure what to think of Mind Unbound, and it's pretty slim in terms of creatures, with Chasm Drake, Belltower Sphinx, Aether Adept, and Skywinder Drake being the only ones worth mentioning. Cancel, Divination, Ice Cage, and Ponder make this one relatively strong on the non-creature front, though.

Black:
Sengir Vampire
Gravedigger
Drifting Shade
Devouring Swarm
Devouring Swarm
Warpath Ghoul
Bloodrage Vampire
Distress
Duskhunter Bat
Doom Blade
Dark Favor
Child of Night
Blood Seeker
Taste of Blood

Comments:
Relatively well-rounded color. Blood Seeker, Child of Night, and Duskhunter Bat are good low-cost creatures, and Devouring Swarm, Bloodrage Vampire, Gravedigger, Drifting Shade, and Sengir curve out nicely. On the noncreature side, we have a Doomblade, Distress, and maybe Dark Favor as well.

Red:
Lava Axe
Lava Axe
Lava Axe
Goblin Bangchuckers
Goblin Bangchuckers
Tectonic Rift
Fiery Hellhound
Blood Ogre
Act of Treason
Stormblood Berserker
Goblin War Paint
Goblin Tunneler
Goblin Tunneler
Goblin Arsonist
Goblin Arsonist

Comments:
Ignoring the triple Lava Axe, this pool's a little schizo. Stormblood Berserker and Blood Ogre would be cool if I had some burn to work with, but that is not the case. The double Tunneler is interesting, and the triple Arsonist is just weird. Act of Treason and Tectonic Rift are the only noncreature cards of note, unfortunately, though I might run one of the Lava Axes.

Green:
Carnage Wurm
Vastwood Gorger
Overrun
Acidic Slime
Bountiful Harvest
Bountiful Harvest
Brindle Boar
Arachnus Web
Garruk's Companion
Titanic Growth
Skinshifter
Runeclaw Bear
Rampant Growth
Naturalize
Naturalize
Jade Mage
Gladecover Scout

Comments:
Carnage Wurm, Skinshifter and Overrun are the standouts in this color. Jade Mage and Gladecover Scout are playable-ish for 1 and 2, but Acidic Slime is the only more expensive guy I'd consider. Arachnus Web isn't exactly removal, but it's nice early on. We've got a little mana accel with that Rampant Growth, some pump with Titanic Growth, and some good sideboard material in the double Naturalize.

Artifact and Land:
Scepter of Empires
Druidic Satchel
Crown of Empires
Angel's Feather
Angel's Feather
Sunpetal Grove
Drowned Catacomb


Comments:
Druidic Satchel is an auto-include, Scepter of Empires would be nice for enabling Bloodthirst in another color, and I'm a weirdo, so I'll be running the Crown no matter what. Not sure what to make of the dual lands...

DECK OPTION 1:
U/B
1cc: 1
Ponder

2cc: 7
Blood Seeker
Duskhunter Bat
Ice Cage
Dark Favor
Distress
Doom Blade
Crown of Empires

3cc: 8
AEther Adept
Skywinder Drake
Bloodrage Vampire
Devouring Swarm
Cancel
Divination
Frost Breath
Scepter of Empires

4cc: 3
Aven Fleetwing
Drifting Shade
Gravedigger

5cc: 3
Belltower Sphinx
Chasm Drake
Sengir Vampire

6+cc: 1
Mind Unbound

Land: 17
8 Island
8 Swamp
Drowned Catacomb

Mana: 14U, 12B
Breakdown: 12 creatures, 11 noncreatures, 17 Land

Thoughts: Awkward at best. There's really no cohesive theme here, just a wing and a prayer. This is the kind of deck I lose with. Let's try something else...

DECK OPTION 2:
G/U+w
1cc: 2
Gideon's Lawkeeper
Ponder

2cc: 6
Garruk's Companion
Jade Mage
Skinshifter
Ice Cage
Rampant Growth
Titanic Growth

3cc: 8
AEther Adept
Skywinder Drake
Arachnus Web
Cancel
Divination
Frost Breath
Oblivion Ring
Druidic Satchel

4cc: 3
Aven Fleetwing
Stonehorn Dignitary
Assault Griffin

5cc: 3
Acidic Slime
Chasm Drake
Overrun

6+cc: 1
Carnage Wurm

Land:
7 Island
7 Forest
Sunpetal Grove
2 Plains

Mana: 11U, 13G, 4W
Breakdown: 12 creatures, 11 noncreatures, 17 lands

Thoughts: That's more like it! This actually looks like a proper deck, with a healthy curve, a fair number of evasive dudes, and quite a few ways to improve my tempo. It's still a bit of an ugly duckling, but there's a solid base here, and all I need to do is play carefully and establish control of the board before smashing some heads with that Carnage Wurm or an Overrun.

Closing: The other option I didn't quite flesh out was B/G, using Jade Mage and Druidic Satchel to generate tokens to feed Sengir Vampire and Devouring Swarm.
 
Orayn said:
Luck be a lady this afternoon! (I hope.)
<snip>
I'd definitely run GUW. The standout to me is green, with nice complementary cards in W and U. I might run 2 Lawkeepers, because he's a bitch.

As far as deckbuilding goes, what's this talk of curves, and is there an optimal number of creatures/non-creature spells to go for? I'm assuming this curve stuff has to do with balancing the number of spells you have at each casting cost.
 
Takuan said:
I'd definitely run GUW. The standout to me is green, with nice complementary cards in W and U. I might run 2 Lawkeepers, because he's a bitch.

As far as deckbuilding goes, what's this talk of curves, and is there an optimal number of creatures/non-creature spells to go for? I'm assuming this curve stuff has to do with balancing the number of spells you have at each casting cost.
The curve is more about having good plays available at every stage of the game. Ideally, you want to limit 1-drop clutter that won't be useful in the late game, and limit your 5+ mana cost cards to plays that will make a big difference for you deck. 2, 3, and 4 are where you should have the most cards, and where you need to be extra careful not to waste valuable spots in your deck.
As far as permanent types go, there's a general push towards going balls to the wall and including as many good creatures as possible. The idea is that a cheap, evasive, or highly useful creature is always a better use of a spot than a mediocre combat trick or utility card.
 
Lawkeeper is always good. In fact, he's better in the late game when he can shut down bombs for far less mana than they cost. Run em both.
 
Does anyone here go to these "Friday Night Magics" or opening weekends for cards? Is it worth going? I'm considering for the opening of M12 to get that vampire card... but I'm not sure what it's like at all.
 
Freakinchair said:
Does anyone here go to these "Friday Night Magics" or opening weekends for cards? Is it worth going? I'm considering for the opening of M12 to get that vampire card... but I'm not sure what it's like at all.
Pre releases are a lot of fun! That said, I personally skip core sets.
 
Freakinchair said:
Does anyone here go to these "Friday Night Magics" or opening weekends for cards? Is it worth going? I'm considering for the opening of M12 to get that vampire card... but I'm not sure what it's like at all.

FNM is a weekly standard event. The prerelease is what you're thinking about and it's on Saturday in most places. They're, by far, the most casual events, so if you're thinking of attending a card event in person, there isn't anything better. I say go for it, especially if you want the Bloodlord.
 
traveler said:
FNM is a weekly standard event. The prerelease is what you're thinking about and it's on Saturday in most places. They're, by far, the most casual events, so if you're thinking of attending a card event in person, there isn't anything better. I say go for it, especially if you want the Bloodlord.

Do they have tournaments going or something? Im just confused as to what you do at these events other than picking up your card.
 
Freakinchair said:
Do they have tournaments going or something? Im just confused as to what you do at these events other than picking up your card.

Openings: Card testing/deck building to test cards. IIRC you get to keep the cards from drafts + the promo card.

FNM: "Casual"/Tournament card battles. Drafts = keep cards you draft. Can be slightly expensive.

How much is the card opening and what's the card they're giving out? I may possibly go if it isn't too expensive.
 
Freakinchair said:
Do they have tournaments going or something? Im just confused as to what you do at these events other than picking up your card.
You don't buy actual raw booster packs, those won't go on sale till the week after next. The formats they run at pre-releases are Sealed (where everyone opens six packs, builds a deck out of them, and plays in a tournament with them) and Draft (where everyone opens a pack, picks a card, passes that pack to the person on their left, picks another card, etc)

As for pricing, I think most places do like $15 for draft, $30 for Sealed, $40 for THG Sealed.
 
I made a Sliver deck with the cards I had from long ago. I bought the Sliver-themed Time Spiral pre-con the other day, but I'm not sure what to splice in or out.

My concentration in this deck was speed and counters. If anyone wants to make suggestions please do. It seems to work relatively well, but I'd like to make it a real pain to play against. I was considering a deck built around using Winter Orb and Gemhide Sliver, so maybe I'll do that.


White
2 Talon Sliver
3 Disenchant
1 Swords to Plowshares

Gold
3 Crystaline Sliver
2 Victual Sliver
1 Sliver Queen

Blue
3 Winged Sliver
2 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak

Green
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Muscle Sliver

Artifact
1 Lotus Petal
1 Coat of Arms
2 Dragon Arch

Land
3 Plains
4 Island
4 Forest
2 City of Brass
2 Reflecting Pool
 
During Legacy and our side draft tonight, I learned that shots made to taste like swedish fish make for a wonderful time.

Freakinchair said:
Does anyone here go to these "Friday Night Magics" or opening weekends for cards? Is it worth going? I'm considering for the opening of M12 to get that vampire card... but I'm not sure what it's like at all.

Opening weekends are Prereleases and Releases. Typically it is Sealed, where you get 6-ish packs and build a deck out of that, then play the tournament with that.

For me, these are some of the most fun events since these people at my shop are good friends and we essentially spend the entire time chilling and playing cards together. At the New Phyrexia prerelease, we had about 90 people, and between rounds we would play in side drafts, throw a frisbee, play catchphrase, take the occasional shot from our friend bartender, and had a great time. This isnt indicative of everyone's experiences at (pre)releases, but they are good times even without our shenanigans.
 
Yeah Orayn and I are lucky enough to go to one of the huge regional events where they have artists signing things and Wizards staff members gunslinging and stuff. A friend of mine totally beat Aaron Forsythe at the Besieged release.
 
The_Technomancer said:
Yeah Orayn and I are lucky enough to go to one of the huge regional events where they have artists signing things and Wizards staff members gunslinging and stuff. A friend of mine totally beat Aaron Forsythe at the Besieged release.
And good God do those things get huge. I went to the midnight release of Zendikar, and there were almost 200 people there for just one sealed deck tournament. Many of them showed up for the sealed event the following morning too, which comprised something like a dozen mid-sized "pods."
Apparently the store's staff and event-running team are connected with one of the highest ranking Magic judges in America, so wherever he goes, massive, well-supported tournaments will follow.

EDIT: If you don't mind some cellphone jellycam and my stupid voice, here is a video of the venue after about half the people had left after going 1-2 or 0-3. (I believe I went 3-2 for a single pity-pack as my prize.)
 
How do you guys even afford all of these cards? That was always my biggest problem with CCG's. That, and the total lack of people near me interested in playing them.
 
Obsessed said:
How do you guys even afford all of these cards? That was always my biggest problem with CCG's. That, and the total lack of people near me interested in playing them.
To be honest, I don't buy many cards. I have one big event every couple of months, which costs $30 and nets be a pretty decent number of cards from new sets, and sometimes enough expensive cards to recoup half the cost of the event, or more.
Even so, a lot of people with big collections just get new cards by picking them up here and there, running the occasional $12 booster draft, or buying bulk common/uncommon cards plus individual copies of ones they really want.
 
Obsessed said:
How do you guys even afford all of these cards? That was always my biggest problem with CCG's. That, and the total lack of people near me interested in playing them.

When I was 14-17, it was a constant struggle. I could afford one or two booster per month in Legend of The Five Rings, and if I made a bad deal, well, then I was fucked. I paired up with my best friend and we collected it together (he was Unicorn/Dragon/Crane, me Lion/Toturi/Monk, so no issues, only on action side), but even then, it was quite a burden.

Now? I do not have much money, in fact I barely hold up until the end of every month, but even I can afford a fat pack or two for every single new block. And it is easy to buy a few boosters now and then when you are in the store, playing. Not always, ofc (even when the urge is there) cause my girlfriend would KILL me if I did that :D Luckily.
 
Obsessed said:
How do you guys even afford all of these cards? That was always my biggest problem with CCG's. That, and the total lack of people near me interested in playing them.

Trading is the best way you can obtain cards. Also, focusing on one deck at a time during a season can keep the costs down as well. If you build a decent enough deck that can win a few prizes, and then dismantle it before the next season rotates, you can pretty much fund your habit in the Standard environment.

I really am not one to talk though. I've spent more money paper and digital on this game I'd care to really mention.

Its still cheaper than Heroin though :D Hell its cheaper than cigarettes.

Oh and another thing you can consider is taking the Judges exam and being a judge. Depending on your level and the events you judge at, you usually get paid in boxes of boosters. Not too shabby.
 
It can get really expensive, it's one of the reasons I play only casually. I wait for stuff to rotate out of Type 2 so they are cheaper to acquire, or I just look for the right opportunity. For instance Stoneforge Mystic now that she's banned.
Competitive play is expensive and I don't think there's a way around it.
 
Chojin said:
Trading is the best way you can obtain cards. Also, focusing on one deck at a time during a season can keep the costs down as well. If you build a decent enough deck that can win a few prizes, and then dismantle it before the next season rotates, you can pretty much fund your habit in the Standard environment.

I really am not one to talk though. I've spent more money paper and digital on this game I'd care to really mention.

Its still cheaper than Heroin though :D Hell its cheaper than cigarettes.

Oh and another thing you can consider is taking the Judges exam and being a judge. Depending on your level and the events you judge at, you usually get paid in boxes of boosters. Not too shabby.

Having a solid community is definitely important as trading really is the best way to do things. Back in the high school days, my friends pooled cards so we could have a better selection. This only caused problems a few times, lol. I've also spent way too much on paper magic. We only play Standard so all of the old stuff just gets boxed up. At one point, I was probably a two pack a day smoker then (in terms of buying boosters, lol).

I decided at one point to take the Judges exam and started taking the practice tests. It's actually a lot more fun than you'd think to study Magic rules.

Unfortunately, now, I live in an area with no Magic community. I either need to move or start playing MTGO.
 
Mistik10102 said:
I used to play magic a few years back and still have a few decks I put together that I believe kick ass. I have two Baneslayers, which probably doesn’t do much nowadays but I do miss playing. It’s pretty fun challenging your friends and competing in mini tournaments.

:-P

Why not start up again? Most people here started up recently with this thread. :lol


kirblar said:
Only difference now is that Baneslayer's $12 instead of $50

Ya, still an awesome card though.
 
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