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[Takuan]

How do you guys even afford all of these cards? That was always my biggest problem with CCG's. That, and the total lack of people near me interested in playing them.

I couldn't back in high school. It'd take a lot for me just to be able to afford a few boosters, and I don't think I ever opened anything particularly great. Back then, I don't think FNM and drafting existed, at least not in my area, so there wasn't a great way to get cards and play outside of buying boosters.

I've worked a full-time job for a while now, stopped going to clubs, and found a girl who would rather stay in than go out 9 times out of 10 (unfortunately, she has zero interest in Magic), so Magic is basically my main hobby/entertainment-related expense. I still spend more than I should, but ultimately it's a minor cost to me. For the most part, it's only $12 a week for drafts which I miss every now and then. Pre-releases are $25, release parties $20, and from there it's all random booster purchases ($10 or $20) for fun. Of course, come pre-release I usually pre-order playsets of stuff I find interesting and doesn't cost $10 a pop, and that can add up - on NPH I spent upwards of $100, and my M12 tally is at $70 or so. Considering picking up a playset of Primeval Titans, but I doubt they'll keep their price tag with Valakut rotating out. I should've pre-ordered an M12 Gideon playset for $50 when I had the chance, though. And maybe a set of Grand Abolishers $21. Oh well, that's what trading's for!

 

[An-Det]

How do you guys even afford all of these cards? That was always my biggest problem with CCG's. That, and the total lack of people near me interested in playing them.

In High School when I first really had that problem, I turned to judging our local events as a way to keep active without pouring money into decks. I kept at that until about 3 years ago when I had to stop. I also turned to Eternal formats where I could casually pick up cards over time (as opposed to Type 2, where rotations make that impossible). Nowadays, I can build most any Eternal deck and can network myself into any Type 2/other format deck I want to play. If I cant build a deck, I can borrow cards from friends rather than buy the cards. I would say focus on what you want to play or achieve and then build towards that. Buy singles rather than packs and focus your pickups with your target in mind.

Drafts are another matter. I tend to team draft (usually 2v2 or 3v3), which ideally uses packs we win in other events rather than paying the stores for a draft set. A lot of money is saved doing that.

 

[red13th]

New Kresh artwork:

Spoiler

...so sexy.

 

[alternade]

So I've been playtesting with some of the best players at my LGS with my green white deck and I've been wrecking faces! Luminarch ascension is a beast if you get it out turn 2. So far I've beat ub control, mono red, mono white artifacts, and ub infect.

 

[rexor0717]

New Kresh artwork:

Spoiler

...so sexy.

Ooooh, what is this for? FTV Legends? It sure would be a random card to redo if so.
Edit: It is! I would shit my pants if there was a new Niv-Mizzet.

 

[red13th]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the other legends.
But From the Vault is the super limited edition product that sells for three times retail right?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Is there any place to buy from the vault? I only ever see it for like 10x the price. And just to make sure but your life can go below zero right? I'm assuming it can but just wanted to make sure my assumption was correct.

 

[WanderingWind]

So MTG makes a set of cards that you can't buy anywhere? Huh?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

So MTG makes a set of cards that you can't buy anywhere? Huh?

It's just highly demanded and very lowly printed and most places like the ripoffs they are raise the prices to "meet the demand" so to speak. Think pricing of over msrp for the white event decks that had stoneforge mystic but even shorter supply. Hobbyshops are just dickbags to make money sometimes sadly.

 

[WanderingWind]

It's just highly demanded and very lowly printed and most places like the ripoffs they are raise the prices to "meet the demand" so to speak. Think pricing of over msrp for the white event decks that had stoneforge mystic but even shorter supply.

That sucks. Pre-orders will be available, I'm assuming?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

That sucks. Pre-orders will be available, I'm assuming?

They usually are just like the others but preorders are usually still a decent amount over msrp. The previous relic sets are going for like $100 each and you could preorder for $50-$60 for the last one they released IIRC which was a "steal" sadly enough. Or that's the lowest I remember seeing it. Like I said it's just that hobbyshops have no qualms raising preorders to over MSRP just to milk people for even more money.

 

[robox]

How do you guys even afford all of these cards? That was always my biggest problem with CCG's. That, and the total lack of people near me interested in playing them.

i got roped into this when my friend started playing it. we play in a casual "league" with rules designed to clamp down on arms races. start off with a fat pack, then only 1 pack a week. no buying singles/loose cards and no oustide trading (which has a potential to gain unfair advantages). these rules help with the first part of your issue, but not the second....

 

[Enordash]

Can anyone post a full banned/restricted list for Vintage here. I can't get to wizards.com and can't seem to find it elsewhere. (I'm at work)

 

[An-Det]

Is anyone else excited for the prereleases this weekend? My store is doing a midnight event tonight after FNM, as well as the normal one starting tomorrow morning.

Can anyone post a full banned/restricted list for Vintage here. I can't get to wizards.com and can't seem to find it elsewhere. (I'm at work)

The following cards are banned in Vintage tournaments:

Amulet of Quoz
Bronze Tablet
Chaos Orb
Contract from Below
Darkpact
Demonic Attorney
Falling Star
Jeweled Bird
Rebirth
Shahrazad
Tempest Efreet
Timmerian Fiends


The following cards are restricted in Vintage tournaments

Ancestral Recall
Balance
Black Lotus
Brainstorm
Burning Wish
Channel
Demonic Consultation
Demonic Tutor
Fact or Fiction
Fastbond
Flash
Gifts Ungiven
Imperial Seal
Library of Alexandria
Lion’s Eye Diamond
Lotus Petal
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Memory Jar
Merchant Scroll
Mind’s Desire
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Mystical Tutor
Necropotence
Ponder
Regrowth
Sol Ring
Strip Mine
Thirst for Knowledge
Time Vault
Time Walk
Timetwister
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Trinisphere
Vampiric Tutor
Wheel of Fortune
Windfall
Yawgmoth’s Bargain
Yawgmoth’s Will

 

[The Technomancer]

Is anyone else excited for the prereleases this weekend? My store is doing a midnight event tonight after FNM, as well as the normal one starting tomorrow morning.

I'm trying to figure out if I'm going or not. I'll be hanging out with my standard THG Sealed partner tonight: if he's going, I'm going.

 

[Enordash]

Much appreciated, An-Det.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I wish I had a place near me and a buddy to do a THG sealed event. That sounds like a pretty awesome experience.

 

[The Technomancer]

I wish I had a place near me and a buddy to do a THG sealed event. That sounds like a pretty awesome experience.

Yeah, Scars in particular was awesome because we were able to run with a G/B straight infect deck with a U/B support-proliferate, and had some awesome synergy.

 

[traveler]

I don't get why Kresh was chosen out of all the legends they had for the FTV. He's popular in edh, sure, but he's not very iconic, represents a weird color combination, (that has better choices for generals) and isn't exactly the most interesting guy to build around.

Progenitus is a fine pick, though. They had to have a 5 color dude, and he's both iconic and heavily played. I do like both of the old arts better, though.

 

[Leunam]

New Progenitus art doesn't even come close to the old art.

 

[The Technomancer]

New Progenitus art doesn't even come close to the old art.

Where are you guys seeing these?

 

[Leunam]

Here.

 

[Cheech]

Quick rules question:

I play Mind Control and take an opponent's creature. My opponent, on his turn, plays Quicksilver Geyser which is a card that lets him return two permanents to the owner's hand. He is thinking that he can play it on his permanent, which I control.

The end result is that his creature is returned to him, and my Mind Control goes into my graveyard. Is this accurate? Thanks.

 

[The Technomancer]

Quick rules question:

I play Mind Control and take an opponent's creature. My opponent, on his turn, plays Quicksilver Geyser which is a card that lets him return two permanents to the owner's hand. He is thinking that he can play it on his permanent, which I control.

The end result is that his creature is returned to him, and my Mind Control goes into my graveyard. Is this accurate? Thanks.

Yes, that is accurate. The Geyser lets him return any two permanents on the battlefield, regardless of controller, and he still "owns" the creature even if you're controlling it.

 

[An-Det]

Quick rules question:

I play Mind Control and take an opponent's creature. My opponent, on his turn, plays Quicksilver Geyser which is a card that lets him return two permanents to the owner's hand. He is thinking that he can play it on his permanent, which I control.

The end result is that his creature is returned to him, and my Mind Control goes into my graveyard. Is this accurate? Thanks.

That is correct.

 

[The Technomancer]

And yeah, new Progenitus art isn't nearly as good as the original. I mean, the idea of Progenitus is one of the most utterly powerful things in Magic, and the old art gave that a level of mystique.

 

[Cheech]

Ok, thanks guys. I really need to disassociate the DotP game with the physical card game. It's not the first time it's given me a case of rules distortion.

 

[The Technomancer]

Ok, thanks guys. I really need to disassociate the DotP game with the physical card game. It's not the first time it's given me a case of rules distortion.

Oh? The same thing should have occured in DotP. Its not a very ambiguous rule, basically even when controllers change owners never change.

 

[Cheech]

Oh? The same thing should have occured in DotP. Its not a very ambiguous rule, basically even when controllers change owners never change.

Oh, I'm sure it does, I just pay WAY less attention to the rules since the CPU does everything for me. There weren't many of those cards in DotP 2009 (I didn't play using/against Blue very often), which is what I sunk the most time into. I've barely scratched the surface of 2012.

I actually want to go to the 2012 prerelease my shop is having tomorrow, but if I get paired with the wrong type of nerd, I'm going to get my head ripped off for not knowing the rules that well. Stuff like Planeswalker cards I am not too familiar with at all. No clue how to use them. I know you treat them like an additional player in that you can directly attack them, but beyond that? No idea what triggers the "+7 triggers X, +2 triggers Y, -7 triggers Z, etc." abilities.

 

[Leunam]

They're used whenever you can use a sorcery, except instead of using mana, you use up (or add) loyalty points.

 

[Orayn]

Oh, I'm sure it does, I just pay WAY less attention to the rules since the CPU does everything for me. There weren't many of those cards in DotP 2009 (I didn't play using/against Blue very often), which is what I sunk the most time into. I've barely scratched the surface of 2012.

I actually want to go to the 2012 prerelease my shop is having tomorrow, but if I get paired with the wrong type of nerd, I'm going to get my head ripped off for not knowing the rules that well. Stuff like Planeswalker cards I am not too familiar with at all. No clue how to use them. I know you treat them like an additional player in that you can directly attack them, but beyond that? No idea what triggers the "+7 triggers X, +2 triggers Y, -7 triggers Z, etc." abilities.

It's pretty simple - You can use one of those abilities per turn, any time you could cast a sorcery, and the +/- is the change to the Planeswalker's loyalty counters, which are basically the 'Walker's life. Also, if a source you control would deal damage to a player, you can have that damage be redirected to one of their Planeswalkers instead. (Works for burn spells like Shock, Incinerate, etc.)

 

[TheSeks]

I may go to the pre-release tomorrow, but I don't know anyone there and my disability makes me extremely awkward and I don't really like neckberd comic book nerds in general. D:

I'll be doing it for the promo and probably able to keep some of the Magic '12 cards from Open Dueling? Or is that only Drafts? :/

 

[The Technomancer]

I may go to the pre-release tomorrow, but I don't know anyone there and my disability makes me extremely awkward and I don't really like neckberd comic book nerds in general. D:

I'll be doing it for the promo and probably able to keep some of the Magic '12 cards from Open Dueling? Or is that only Drafts? :/

Nah, you get to keep the cards from Open Dueling.

 

[WanderingWind]

I love it. We're all a bunch of MTG dorks who hate other MTG dorks. I think it's because we shower.

 

[Cheech]

It's pretty simple - You can use one of those abilities per turn, any time you could cast a sorcery, and the +/- is the change to the Planeswalker's loyalty counters, which are basically the 'Walker's life. Also, if a source you control would deal damage to a player, you can have that damage be redirected to one of their Planeswalkers instead. (Works for burn spells like Shock, Incinerate, etc.)

Doesn't sound too bad. Yeah, I still might go. It's the format where you get six boosters and unlimited lands, build your best deck, and have at. The odds of me actually drawing a Planeswalker who happens to be the same color as my best supporting cards is super low.

My main fear is getting paired with the wrong type of nerd. I am the super low key, laid back nerd stereotype, and people going insane because I make a mistake or I miss something is going to make me regret going. That prerelease card they are giving out is pretty sweet too. That is another thing pushing me to go. Love me a good vampire deck.

 

[Leunam]

Are any of your friends interested in the game? I have a group of around eight other friends who I can play Magic with that aren't the LGS stereotype. I've known these guys for years so and we all got into it together.

 

[TheSeks]

Nah, you get to keep the cards from Open Dueling.

Neat. I assume it isn't as expensive as draft tournaments would be?

 

[Takuan]

Are any of your friends interested in the game? I have a group of around eight other friends who I can play Magic with that aren't the LGS stereotype. I've known these guys for years so and we all got into it together.

I have a friend who doesn't. I recently became re-acquainted with a guy I knew as a kid who was heavy into magic in the revised days, and he's gotten his pals into it as well. Between the five of us, though, I would say the only reason we don't fit the stereotype is because we're grown men with jobs.

 

[The Technomancer]

I'm hoping to do a Draft and a Sealed this weekend, and I'm really hoping that I pull a Vengeful Pharaoh. Such an ill card.

 

[Chojin]

I'm hoping to do a Draft and a Sealed this weekend, and I'm really hoping that I pull a Vengeful Pharaoh. Such an ill card.

As much as WoTC is actively trying to push Monoblack with this set and Scars. I'm going to try to live the DREAM. Vengeful Pharaoh would be nice depending if (and I'm sure we will) get some cards that will allow us to pitch in the graveyard reliably. Though I guess he'd be better in U/B control.

Hell I'm just happy Zombie Infestation is out. Nothing degenerate as of yet, but then again, makes for a great vengevine trigger.

 

[Rokam]

Anyone know if Walmart/Target will have 2012 the day it's released? All the card shops charge the same amount for booster packs and I really don't feel like driving the extra 20 minutes.

 

[Merino]

Little big anxious about the pre-release tomorrow.

Not only do I have no idea what type of crowd I'm getting myself into (could be 10-16 year old kids for all I know) but I truly have no grasp on the whole Limited idea of playing.

Been trying to look at the card gallery and attempting to judge the cards but since the whole game has changed so much it's harder than I thought. Also I don't think I've ever build or played a 40 card deck. Really hoping I'll get my mana-curve/creature-spell-ratio correct tomorrow. The whole 2-colour with a splash in a third is all new to me too. Never build a deck like that before so I'm not sure about what works and what doesn't.

We'll see how it goes and I'll just prepare to be dominated all day long.

 

[Rokam]

Little big anxious about the pre-release tomorrow.

Not only do I have no idea what type of crowd I'm getting myself into (could be 10-16 year old kids for all I know) but I truly have no grasp on the whole Limited idea of playing.

Been trying to look at the card gallery and attempting to judge the cards but since the whole game has changed so much it's harder than I thought. Also I don't think I've ever build or played a 40 card deck. Really hoping I'll get my mana-curve/creature-spell-ratio correct tomorrow. The whole 2-colour with a splash in a third is all new to me too. Never build a deck like that before so I'm not sure about what works and what doesn't.

We'll see how it goes and I'll just prepare to be dominated all day long.

http://www.magicdraftsim.com not that it'll help too much since you can't play against others, but you can practice your drafting skills and get a look at new stuff.

 

[Merino]

http://www.magicdraftsim.com not that it'll help too much since you can't play against others, but you can practice your drafting skills and get a look at new stuff.

Yeah been playing around with that. Also got a draft app for on the iphone (which was updated with M11 today) to practice on.

Still as I have no idea how 40-card-deck games within this limited format play out I have no idea what to go on. I've read that it's a slower format and creatures are more important (and certain over-costed creatures are actually worthwhile in limited) but that still doesn't help me to much.

About the ratio for a 2 color deck would it be something like this;
9 lands A
7 lands B

15 Creatures
9 Spells

 

[robox]

i had thought about doing the pre-release event, but decided against it. i'd only started playing and i couldn't really be bothered to study up on the cards then coming up with combos and synergies. it does sound fun n' all but i had a strong feeling i was just gonna get stomped either way. that and i was a cheapass. could just get some packs for way less than the event fee.

 

[traveler]

Yeah been playing around with that. Also got a draft app for on the iphone (which was updated with M11 today) to practice on.

Still as I have no idea how 40-card-deck games within this limited format play out I have no idea what to go on. I've read that it's a slower format and creatures are more important (and certain over-costed creatures are actually worthwhile in limited) but that still doesn't help me to much.

About the ratio for a 2 color deck would it be something like this;
9 lands A
7 lands B

15 Creatures
9 Spells

Those numbers are pretty much on the money for standard formats. (Weird formats like Zendikar warp the ratios a bit) I usually run 17 lands, but, besides that, you've got the basic goals down.

With sealed, you work with what your pool gives you. Play to your pool's strengths; not much else you can do.

With draft, the easy thing to remember is bread. It's an acronym that describes what your standard priorities for drafting should be. (B being the first thing to take; D being the last)

B- Bombs. Game enders. Most of the cards in this category are rares like the titans and planeswalkers. There are some uncommons that fall into it as well- Mind Control and Overrun being the two most notable in this set.

R- Removal. In Scars, creatures were so weak that 1 point of damage was usually just as good a piece of removal as anything else. Not going to be so in the core set, so unconditional pieces of removal are the ideal here. Doom Blade and Oblivion Ring being the prime examples.

E- Efficent cards. GOOD tempo oriented bounce spells, counters, draw, GOOD combat tricks, etc. Frost Breath and Merfolk Loots are good examples here.

A- Aggro. Dumb beaters. Like you mentioned, 6 mana 6/4s are actually playable in limited. Carnage Wurm is a great example of this. (Although some might argue he's more of a bomb with his stats.) Bloodrage Vampire, Elite Vanguard, Blood Ogre, Bonebreaker Giant, etc. Prioritize evasion (flying/trample/fear/intimidate) when you can.

D- Dregs. Everything else.

Try to play to an archetype if possible. U/W flyers is almost always solid in core sets. If you go control, you'll need the tools to keep your opponents board in check as well as suitable finishers. If you go heavy aggro, you'll need a decent number of solid beaters that can come down on curve well enough.

 

[TheSeks]

Little big anxious about the pre-release tomorrow.

Not only do I have no idea what type of crowd I'm getting myself into (could be 10-16 year old kids for all I know) but I truly have no grasp on the whole Limited idea of playing.

Do "Open Duel." I'm not sure if that's free or cost, but that's what I'm planning to do if the venue is doing it since that's part of the pre-release.

Open Dueling: Open Dueling players each receive 1 Magic 2012 Intro Pack and 1 promo card (Bloodlord of Vaasgoth, while supplies last). Open Dueling players use their Intro Pack to play against each other, as well as Prerelease tournament players who are between matches. All players should be encouraged to help teach Open Dueling participants how to play Magic.

Means it's more "casual" and the playerbase is supposed to help newbies or people getting back in understand the rules and power creep and give tips. Seems like a good thing that isn't drafting super serious cards.

Of course, it does depend on on the venue's population and the locals not being assholes. :/

 

[marrec]

i had thought about doing the pre-release event, but decided against it. i'd only started playing and i couldn't really be bothered to study up on the cards then coming up with combos and synergies. it does sound fun n' all but i had a strong feeling i was just gonna get stomped either way. that and i was a cheapass. could just get some packs for way less than the event fee.

In a Sealed Deck draft it isn't as much as combos and synergy, but being really aware of the Mana curve and Ratio. Sure, if you pull two Grenades and a Chieften then you might wanna pull together a Goblin Aggro deck, but it's not like you want to build a Pyromancers Ascension deck out of 6 Booster Packs.

At least, that's how I play drafts, works out pretty well for me.

Now I don't want to distract from all of this Pre-Release stuff but I have a Rules question. I'm just getting back into Magic (after being out since Invasion block) and, while Super excited for the events tomorrow, I have also been studying up on Standard. Long story short, if you cast Act of Aggression on Wurmcoil Engine, attack, then before the end of your turn destroy it with Shatter or what-not, would the person who cast the Act of Aggression have permanent control of the two 3/3 creatures?

 

[red13th]

And yeah, new Progenitus art isn't nearly as good as the original. I mean, the idea of Progenitus is one of the most utterly powerful things in Magic, and the old art gave that a level of mystique.

The new Progenitus is laughing. He's a lolhydra

 

[TheSeks]

So, wait. Open Duel is probably gonna cost some money?