Support NeoGAF

[The Technomancer]

I just came back to MtG after 10 year absence (I think I finished playing with Invasion). I have some questions, if I may:

1. Do I remember correctly that Wizards of the Coast cut off expansions after a certain time has passed, much like Games Workshop updates Codexes for each Warhammer armies? Or are all expansions still sanctioned for play?

2. I remember there was a magazine for MtG. Is it still going?

3. If I want to get back into Magic, but don't want to invest a lot of money - what options do I have? Sealed draft?

Thanks for help!

1.) Several different formats now. In most organized play the two most common are Standard, which goes back two years, and Legacy which covers all sets with a list of banned cards. Other formats include Extended, which goes back like six years, and the soon to be launched Modern, which covers all sets from Mirrodin forward.

2.)No, but there are great digital equivalents. Check out Dailymtg.com for strategy articles, tournament coverage, and great behind the scenes articles.

3.)Yeah, draft is good and fun.

 

[Chojin]

Looking at the Innistrad art spoilers, something struck me: most of the pseudo-Eurpean influence of Magic has been from the Romantic cultures. This set looks to have definite Germanic influences, and I think that's awesome.

One of the rumors is it might be going back to Ravnica, which had eastern european and russian influences.

Considering the time is about right to revisit it (skipping over Kamigawa, sigh) and that it was one of the most popular sets of all time I think its most likely we'll be back to Ravnica. This plus how a lot of Neo-Planeswalkers seem to end up on Ravnica anyway.

 

[Castor Krieg]

One more question: are there any pre-constructed decks that I can buy for me and my brother to just play? Kinda like Duels? I noticed something called Magic The Gathering: New Phyrexia - Devouring Skies Intro Pack, is that one of those things?

 

[The Technomancer]

One more question: are there any pre-constructed decks that I can buy for me and my brother to just play? Kinda like Duels? I noticed something called Magic The Gathering: New Phyrexia - Devouring Skies Intro Pack, is that one of those things?

Any of the Duel Decks would be good to start with, check out stuff like Jace vs Chandra, Angels vs Demons, Phyrexia vs the Coalition etc. Those intro packs are also decent, but they don't come with complete decks, instead augmenting them with booster packs. They also sell more expensive (around $20) Event Decks which are somewhat tournament competitive.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

One more question: are there any pre-constructed decks that I can buy for me and my brother to just play? Kinda like Duels? I noticed something called Magic The Gathering: New Phyrexia - Devouring Skies Intro Pack, is that one of those things?

Ya, they're 60 card decks just don't expect them to have amazing cards in them. There are also more expensive event decks that are better premade to be more usuable for playing standard Friday night magic.

Edit: damn you techno!

 

[Castor Krieg]

Alright, going to pick Phyrexia vs. The Coalition tommorow I think. Thanks for all the helpful answers. Are rules in Duel Decks the same as in regular MtG?

 

[The Technomancer]

Alright, going to pick Phyrexia vs. The Coalition tommorow I think. Thanks for all the helpful answers. Are rules in Duel Decks the same as in regular MtG?

Yup, they're just handy packaging.

 

[WanderingWind]

Alright, going to pick Phyrexia vs. The Coalition tommorow I think. Thanks for all the helpful answers. Are rules in Duel Decks the same as in regular MtG?

I personally love the duel decks and wish they made a bunch more. They're great for well balanced play where you're more interested in just playing than crushing your opponent.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Okay, even I think that this is creeping the creature power a bit too much:

8/8 for 6 with no drawback?
Well, okay, it has a drawback in multiplayer only, but still...

In EDH, this is a great card. You'll be painting a bullseye on your back though. Oh shit, that is from the commander set? My friend is definitely going to use that. Gotta make sure I have a creature with death touch out.

 

[kirblar]

I personally love the duel decks and wish they made a bunch more. They're great for well balanced play where you're more interested in just playing than crushing your opponent.

Elspeth vs Tezzeret is also a great Duel Deck that should be available.

I wish the white event decks were like that and getting a second batch.

There's a very, very strong possibility that Stoneforge Mystic gets banned in Standard (and possibly Modern/Extended) at Midnight tonight, so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

 

[WanderingWind]

Elspeth vs Tezzeret is also a great Duel Deck that should be available.

There's a very, very strong possibility that Stoneforge Mystic gets banned in Standard (and possibly Modern/Extended) at Midnight tonight, so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Okay, they'll ban Stoneforge, but pussyfoot around JTMS. That's bullcrap. Stoneforge is great, but it's still extremely vulnerable.

 

[kirblar]

Okay, they'll ban Stoneforge, but pussyfoot around JTMS. That's bullcrap. Stoneforge is great, but it's still extremely vulnerable.

The problem is that the cost reduction/instant speed aspect of the activated ability is just plain broken, and like Survival of the Fittest, it was a matter of time until something broke it. In this case, it was Batterskull. Beforehand it just let you shave a mana off your swords. But now it's a situation where if an agressive deck can't kill the mystic immediately, they'll have to deal with a vigilant 4/4 mini-baneslayer that's almost impossible to kill with sorcery speed removal.

Tutors and things that reduce costs are two of the card categories that tend to break and get banned, and SFM is actually both of those.

I think SFM and Splinter Twin certainly get the axe tonight, and Valakut is likely. Jace is really the big question mark.

 

[WanderingWind]

The problem is that the cost reduction/instant speed aspect of the activated ability is just plain broken, and like Survival of the Fittest, it was a matter of time until something broke it. In this case, it was Batterskull. Beforehand it just let you shave a mana off your swords. But now it's a situation where if an agressive deck can't kill the mystic immediately, they'll have to deal with a vigilant 4/4 mini-baneslayer that's almost impossible to kill with sorcery speed removal.

Tutors and things that reduce costs are two of the card categories that tend to break and get banned, and SFM is actually both of those.

I think SFM and Splinter Twin certainly get the axe tonight, and Valakut is likely. Jace is really the big question mark.

Yeah, well, I'm of the mind that if you don't roll with some creature removal in every deck you play, you kind of deserve what happens to you.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Elspeth vs Tezzeret is also a great Duel Deck that should be available.

There's a very, very strong possibility that Stoneforge Mystic gets banned in Standard (and possibly Modern/Extended) at Midnight tonight, so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

What? Says who? Stoneforge isn't good enough to get banned. That's not happening.

If any of those cards you mentioned are somehow banned then Wizards is the biggest piece of shit company ever.

It still makes no sense, valakut isn't that great, deceiver exarch isn't that easy of a combo to pull off, there is no reason to ban any of the cards you mentioned.

 

[OneEightZero]

I don't think they'll ban Stoneforge. They'll just let it rotate out in September.

 

[traveler]

Stoneforge is easily the most likely card to get banned tonight but I'm still not sure if it will happen. I could see also Valakut and Splinter Twin going down as well IF the mystic is banned, just out of fear of what might happen to the metagame after Caw-Blade's demise.

What? Says who? Stoneforge isn't good enough to get banned. That's not happening.

If any of those cards you mentioned are somehow banned then Wizards is the biggest piece of shit company ever.

It still makes no sense, valakut isn't that great, deceiver exarch isn't that easy of a combo to pull off, there is no reason to ban any of the cards you mentioned.

Stoneforge is seeing 4 ofs across multiple Legacy decks now. The card is just ridiculous with Batterskull (who knows why they printed that when Stoneforge was already dominant) in its ability to just totally ignore tempo and countermagic.

Valakut isn't that great because it's being kept in check by the dominant decks. If cawblade falls, it could rise up again (so long as exarch twin is gone) and rule the metagame.

Exarch twin is one of the easiest combos to pull off in all of Magic imo. Even the threat of the combo, regardless of the probability of you actually holding the cards, is powerful. Think about it this way- if your hand consists of more than 1 unknown card and you have 3 or more lands on the table, your opponent cannot tap out. If they do, they're potentially dead, no other mistakes/turns needed. If they play a deck that doesn't have countermagic or instant speed removal, they're even more screwed as they have to beat you before turn 4. (or stick a Suture Priest/Spellskite that doesn't get Roil'd/killed, I suppose.)

Now, I don't necessarily believe any of these decks merit bannings; I'm just saying I could easily see why Wizards might bring the banhammer down on some of these cards. Like I said above, Mystic stands the strongest chance of getting hit and, if it goes, I could see Wizards preemptively gutting the other potentially dominant archetypes just so these last 3 months see some serious change. (Although I'm not even certain serious change would come- vamps might just take the scene with those bannings.)

 

[Hero]

The head of R&D has been tweeting for weeks now about how unhappy he and the rest of the team are unhappy with the current meta and has apologized for it. There will be bannings tonight most likely. JTMS and SFM are the two prime targets.

 

[TheSeks]

I have no clue what the hell you guys are talking about at times. :lol I should probably go to Friday Night Magic one of these days, but it's a bit expensive for gas and time/awkwardness.

 

[mattoz85]

I hope SFM gets the ban. I'm so sick of turn 2 Mystic, fetch a Batterskull. As an aggro player, I feel like conceding on the spot. If it doesn't get banned tomorrow, then I'm selling my deck and sticking to EDH and legacy. I have a 80% foiled out Elf deck with foil Vengevines, Fauna Shamans, full-art Forests, etc. Any takers? haha

SFM has seriously warped the standard metagame, particularly since Batterskull was printed. When the same combo appears in Legacy, a format which is much faster and more skill intensive, then you know it's overpowered. Affinity decks are now using SFM, for crying out loud. It's just ridiculous.

 

[traveler]

Yeah, I really don't get why Batterskull got printed. Is the lead time on printing just so far out that they didn't know SFM was even a factor in the metagame? The card was great, but not overwhelmingly so, before. Now it's just insane.

I've got my playset, but primarily just so I can run them in Death and Taxes. Wonder if Wizards would go so far as to ban the card across multiple formats.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

If they ban any of those 3 then wizards can go fuck themselves. You can't print a white fucking event deck that is supposed to compete on friday night magic then ban a card that there is two of and the whole reason people bought that deck. Convenient how they do that after they have everyone's money. And they're trying to con people if they didn't think people would discover the exarch and other combos. I hope they ban nothing tonight.

 

[traveler]

The event deck lists were set in stone before Sfm was even worth $7. Wizards would not have known that the mystic was ban worthy when it came time to print.

Furthermore, they also didn't know about exarch. Far from expecting the players not to discover it, they hadn't even discovered it when nph was launched.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

The event deck lists were set in stone before Sfm was even worth $7. Wizards would not have known that the mystic was ban worthy when it came time to print.

Furthermore, they also didn't know about exarch. Far from expecting the players not to discover it, they hadn't even discovered it when nph was launched.

That's pure bullshit. How could they not know batterskull would make stoneforge more broken and how the fuck could you not see an infinite combo with exarch after galvanizer? That is bullshit.

 

[Ronabo]

Just ban plains. No need for those. Who plays white stuff anyways.

 

[siddx]

SFM isn't remotely over powered
Only one deck ran SFM that made top 16 at the legacy open in Denver. While only three of the top 8 for the standard open were cawblade decks, with the top two spots going to vampires and mono red. And there was only one exarch twin deck in the top 16. Neither of those cards deserve a banning at all.

Jace is the only one I could see restricting (not banning).

 

[alternade]

Ill be happy to see SFM go. This past fnm I played against it 3 out of 4 rounds. The Meta is jacked. Its no longer who's the most creative deck builder, its who can get their SFM/JTMS out first.

 

[The Technomancer]

If the problem is Batterskull isn't it more likely that that's the one they'd restrict or ban?

 

[traveler]

There you have it- jace and stoneforge banned.

 

[An-Det]

Wow. I was expecting Stoneforge, but not Jace.

 

[WanderingWind]

It is a utter and complete dick move to ban a card that was just put into a preconstructed deck.

 

[The Technomancer]

Wow, they might get a real shitstorm over the SFM ban

 

[traveler]

In what is the weirdest move of the night, wizards is allowing you to use sfms in the event deck so long as it is the exact list. I dunno if anyone really cares, though.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

There you have it- jace and stoneforge banned.

Source? I'm checking Wizards site, but finding nothing about the bans.

 

[The Technomancer]

In what is the weirdest move of the night, wizards is allowing you to use sfms in the event deck so long as it is the exact list. I dunno if anyone really cares, though.

Yeah, I saw that as well. Really the problem seems to be Batterskull, so why ban the Mystic?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Man, fuck wizards. Are you going to give me my $25 back dipshits?

 

[kudos.]

Source? I'm checking Wizards site, but finding nothing about the bans.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/148

Hope Jace drops enough that I can buy it below $25. That'd be gravy.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Yeah, I saw that as well. Really the problem seems to be Batterskull, so why ban the Mystic?

Why release cards that knowingly fuck up the game worse? Fucking dipshits at wizards right now.

 

[siddx]

woooooow, what a bunch of horseshit.

I just bought that fucking event deck too. Just for the SFM. Suck my dick Wizards.

 

[The Technomancer]

Why release cards that knowingly fuck up the game worse? Fucking dipshits at wizards right now.

I do think the article is at least worth a read. A lot of it amounts to "we fucked up"

 

[traveler]

As stated before, they have a lead time on products going to print. They didn't know how strong bskull was/sforge would get when nph and the event decks went to print. Aaron's article on the main site explains this and a lot more.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I do think the article is at least worth a read. A lot of it amounts to "we fucked up"

Which isn't even close to good enough. A fucking child can realize it would make things work, they can't be this ignorant. And after they have everyone's money from the event deck they ban the only card people wanted from that event deck? If they let me send them my intact event deck for a $25 check then I'll call it even. I have the deck a week and I might as well throw it away. What a piece of trash company.

 

[The Technomancer]

As stated before, they have a lead time on products going to print. They didn't know how strong bskull was/sforge would get when nph and the event decks went to print. Aaron's article on the main site explains this and a lot more.

I almost agree with the decision to ban the SFM because it is a dangerous card. Tutoring and free-casting are both dangerous mechanics that more often then not get abused. The real problem here is the event deck fiasco.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

As stated before, they have a lead time on products going to print. They didn't know how strong bskull was/sforge would get when nph and the event decks went to print. Aaron's article on the main site explains this and a lot more.

How long is the lead time? Because stoneforge has been used for a while now so I can't see how nothing could possibly click with batterskull. Just saying there is a lead time doesn't mean they weren't being stupid.

 

[The Technomancer]

How long is the lead time? Because stoneforge has been used for a while now so I can't see how nothing could possibly click with batterskull. Just saying there is a lead time doesn't mean they weren't being stupid.

Almost 6-9 months I believe. They're currently probably finalizing development for the second or third set in Innstrad. Mystic first became a problem with the Swords and Cawblade

Basically here's the screwup quote:

As the lead developer of New Phyrexia, I wasn't going to let the existence of Stoneforge keep us from exploring all that living weapon could do forever. After all, the card was meant to be an enabler, not a barrier to making appealing cards. With eyes wide open, I put Batterskull in the set knowing that it would take Stoneforge Mystic to new heights for a few months. The mistake was not realizing that it was already going to have shown itself to be format-warping by that point.

We underestimated the impact of Sword of Feast and Famine on the environment, especially when combined with Stoneforge. By the time Batterskull came out, people were already sick and tired of Stoneforge Mystic; instead of creating a new archetype, we merely cemented the current best one in place.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Like I said if it was just normal I wouldn't give two shits about them banning stoneforge but after everyone bought the white even deck only now to find out we wasted $25 and in some cases even more by online prices or by buying two is the epitome of bullshit. This whole thing leaves a huge bad taste in my mouth and makes me care very little for wizards.

 

[The Technomancer]

Like I said if it was just normal I wouldn't give two shits about them banning stoneforge but after everyone bought the white even deck only now to find out we wasted $25 and in some cases even more by online prices or by buying two is the epitome of bullshit. This whole thing leaves a huge bad taste in my mouth and makes me care very little for wizards.

Yeah, like I said, its a bit of a fiasco. I feel your pain.

Out of curiosity though, how many Mystics come in the deck? Because you can buy them individually for 15 bucks I believe.

 

[traveler]

I can't find an exact figure or quote, ut I recall reading that Sfm was worth $6 when the event decks were made and, if you read the article, you'll see that Forsyth expected batterskull to make Sfm a viable card, not break it, so obviously design for it was done before caw took over.

Also, the main price drop for Sfm has already happened due to the event decks. The card won't be worthless as it is played in legacy and will be played on modern if that becomes a reality. Lastly, would you like wizards to place the value of consumers "stock" in cards over the health of the game? I bought two event decks and I won't complain about losing value on principle- objecting on those grounds would make me the same as proponents of the reserved list, which is obviously horrible for the game.

Now, whether it truly deserved the ban from a balance perspective is another matter and I don't give wizards a pass for not catching this stuff; I just don't think it merits pure outrage.

 

[WanderingWind]

I mean, I get being upset, but acting like we just got robbed? Isn't SFM about to skyrocket in price?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Yeah, like I said, its a bit of a fiasco. I feel your pain.

Out of curiosity though, how many Mystics come in the deck? Because you can buy them individually for 15 bucks I believe.

2 come in the deck along with puresteel paladin and mirran crusader. It was a steal until they made the deck worth like $10 or less in value due to this bullshit.

I mean, I get being upset, but acting like we just got robbed? Isn't SFM about to skyrocket in price?

The only thing in that $25 deck people wanted was stoneforge. Spending $25 for shitty commons because they ban the expensive card is pretty bullshit... Why would it skyrocket in price? It dropped from $25 to $15 a week before the event deck came out. It will probably drop more if it does anything since it's banned in standard.

 

[Hero]

I told you guys things were getting bad. Quoting part of the selections from the R&D's article on it.

The Standard metagame is stagnant and unhealthy at the moment, and has been for months. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is appearing in winning deck lists an alarming percentage of the time, with Stoneforge Mystic appearing almost as often. For reference, 88% of the decks in Day 2 of Grand Prix Singapore contained multiple copies of Jace, and almost 70% of the Day 2 decks contained Stoneforge Mystic. The numbers from Pro Tour Qualifiers and independent large events like the StarCityGames.com Open Series look very similar.

We haven't seen cards dominate the field like this, possibly ever. Even in the heyday of Affinity (the last deck to require such drastic measures in Standard), we weren't seeing anything like this level of homogeneity. When you realize that both cards, besides being dominant in Standard, are top tier in Constructed formats of all sizes up to and including Legacy (and even Vintage for Jace), it becomes harder and harder to argue that the cards are anything but flat-out too powerful.

When 88% of the competitive field is playing one card that's not a basic land you know something is wrong with the format. 70% is pretty ridiculously high as well. Affinity was one of the worst mistakes in the history of the game, second only to maybe Tolarian Academy and Cawblade was putting up higher percentages than that. That says a lot.

Ultimately:

But then the formal complaints began pouring in, followed by a drop in attendance—pronounced at Pro Tour Qualifiers, shocking at the recent New Phyrexia Game Day, more subtle but just as real at Friday Night Magic—that we can't ignore. If people don't want to play the game, we need to fix it.

That's pretty much the entire reason right there folks. It sucks for people who bought the event deck but SFM is still really good in Legacy and will be great in Extended so it's not like it's a totally unusable card.