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Magic: The Gathering |OT|

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TheSeks said:
Did the tutorial tell you to shuffle/not-shuffle?

I'm curious because while it isn't part of your original question I think it would help you a bit in learning.

But um... you put 60+15 in the deck, which isn't really useful because you're supposed to have 40/60 card decks depending on what format your playing. Remove 15 cards and focus on the mana "engine" for your deck to "go," again.
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yes the tutorial said to shuffle before play. I've been reading the tutorial that came with the deck but its not beginner friendly. Yea we took out the 15 booster pack cards and just played with the 60.
 
tubster68 said:
yes the tutorial said to shuffle before play. I've been reading the tutorial that came with the deck but its not beginner friendly. Yea we took out the 15 booster pack cards and just played with the 60.
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Ya, they're just preconstructed decks you definitely have to shuffle. And ya, that's just a random booster you shouldn't add it to your deck since some won't even be playable since they're the wrong color.

Edit: As far as your complaint they're cheapy starter decks that interaction is only so good and it's hard to give tips without knowing his deck. There's not green/blue in beseiged so I'm not sure which one it is. Starter decks aren't always equal you're deck is a lot about metalcraft and using battle cry from what I can tell. If you're getting too many lands/certain card type have you tried pile shuffling instead of just normal playing cards type of shuffle? If you're getting clumps you gotta do a pile shuffle or two. You get screwed from time to time, it happens to every one. Even a major tournament of legacy a month ago the guy had to mulligan down to 3 cards.
 
Did terrible at the Innestrad event last night, went 1-3-0. My pulls were weak, and i just couldn't compete.

Oh well, I traded for 4 copies (one foil) of Unbreathing Horde and two of Geth, Lord of the Vault from what I got in my packs and gave the rest away to a friend. The only deck I still maintain and update is my all black Zombie creature deck, so I always try to get my hands on four copies of the best zombies that fit from new sets.
 
Chorazin said:
Did terrible at the Innestrad event last night, went 1-3-0. My pulls were weak, and i just couldn't compete.

Oh well, I traded for 4 copies (one foil) of Unbreathing Horde and two of Geth, Lord of the Vault from what I got in my packs and gave the rest away to a friend. The only deck I still maintain and update is my all black Zombie creature deck, so I always try to get my hands on four copies of the best zombies that fit from new sets.
Click to expand...

I'm debating on doing the same thing, but with my elves, white artifact and vampire decks. I have an idea for a blue illusion deck that revolves around Lord of Illusion, Snapcaster and that new mask that bestows hexproof.

siddx said:
I've had the exact opposite experience with both flip cards and vampires. I had a green/white deck that was heavy on flip cards that got me in the top 4 in a large very competitive draft, and then a green/red deck again with lots of flip cards and vampires that did very well until I decided to gtfo and go home instead of being forced to hang out at the store until midnight again.

The flip cards force your opponents to change their play behavior. I loved seeing them struggle to figured out how to cast two spells during their turn just to flip my guy back (and in the process waste a spell or two that they might have gotten good use out of later). Or casting something useless just so my guy wouldn't flip.

And the red vamps are great. The rare 1/1 for 1 mountain is one of the best turn one plays you can have. If your opponent doesn't immediately deal with him, he gets out of reach of burn very quickly. And while your opponent is trying to kill him off, you are dropping other creatures. One of my best games saw me drop that vampire turn one, a green flip card turn 2, and another green flip card turn 3. By the time he killed the vampire, I had those two other guys on the board forcing him to play cards he would have otherwise saved so that he wasn't facing a 3/3 intimidate and a 4/6 instead of a 2/2 and a 2/3. By turn 4 I had a Trepanation Blade out and he knew death was coming next turn.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that mentality seemed prevalent until people just started ignoring the flip cards their opponents brought out. Then, they were just really expensive creatures that could still be destroyed fairly easily.

I'm still not not a fan of the new vamps, outside of the one you mentioned. For them being the tribe or whatever, I'm wholly unimpressed. Maybe they'll get better once I rearrange something, but considering that so many cards in Innistrad can just kill vampires outright, they're definitely not worth building a deck around any longer.
 
tubster68 said:
yes the tutorial said to shuffle before play. I've been reading the tutorial that came with the deck but its not beginner friendly. Yea we took out the 15 booster pack cards and just played with the 60.
Click to expand...

Hmm... a total beginner, you having problems with them and the tutorial means maybe I need to update my article towards learning Magic while you don't know jack about Magic again.

Insofar as your friends deck, we'd kinda need to know what the deck name is before we could help with counters and the like.

Anyway, you are going to get mana-screwed at times, it's a fact of life. The only thing you can do is attempt to balance the mana/engine and cards or learn to deal with it. Sometimes you can have a whole bunch of mana but not drawing any. It sucks, but you can't do too much about it if you don't have the deck search cards.
 
What's a usual opening hand if you keep running into the same problems? What is a normal starting hand for your friend? Do you remember any of the card's names?
 
This weekend I ordered one of those sweet leather deck boxes from UltraPro with the black mana symbol on it from Amazon, and 20x Zendikar full art Swamps off eBay.

Both should really class up my Zombie deck!
 
Trying to run a W/U spirit token blade deck (only have 1 sword tho lol). The idea is to use Doomed Traveler and Mausoleum Guard as chump blockers so that I may generate spirit tokens and pumped them up with the Intangible Virtue Enchantment. Most people will just take the hit instead of killing them, so I added Silver-Inlaid Dagger to give them +3/+0 and give them a reason to block. Blade Splicers is just good in general so I got them in and the golems will benefit from Intangile Virtue. I got a Sun Titan in there but it might be running against Moorland Haunts which requires you to exile a creature from the graveyard to generate a token. I might remove Sun Titan for some other bomb. Got some Invisible Stalkers in there. Probably doesnt fit the theme but it's an unblockable human that will benefit from Silver-Inlaid Dagger slightly. 4 mana leaks, 4 ponders, and 2 Dissipate. If I cannot get the guys dead to generate the tokens, I got 3 DoJ and a Phyrexian Rebirth to trigger it. Probably overdoing the amount lol. I've thought about adding that 4 or 5 mana cost creature that gives spirits +1/+0 but for a 3/3 flyer that's pretty costly for a measly 3/3 creature.

I'm still lacking a bunch of cards and knowledge of what cards are out there that can help improve this deck. Any help would be appreciated!
 
goddamnit. I swore to myself I wouldn't start deck building. STICK TO PRE-CONS. WHY AM I CRAVING BOOSTERS? RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH.

Fucking ordered a fat pack. I hate myself. My wallet hates me too.
 
Built myself a nice little UG deck yesterday centering around Invisible Stalker and Sword of Body and Mind. I LOVE that he has hexproof. It changes everything. Haven't had a chance to test it out yet, but I can't wait. Anyway...

Question time!

Say I play Rise from the Grave (4B -- Sorcery -- Put target creature card in a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.) and select an Essence of the Wild (3GGG -- Avatar -- Creatures you control enter the battlefield as a copy of Essence of the Wild. 6/6).

That would mean that every creature that enters the battlefield would be that card, but also a black zombie, right?
 
OnPoint said:
Question time!

Say I play Rise from the Grave (4B -- Sorcery -- Put target creature card in a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.) and select an Essence of the Wild (3GGG -- Avatar -- Creatures you control enter the battlefield as a copy of Essence of the Wild. 6/6).

That would mean that every creature that enters the battlefield would be that card, but also a black zombie, right?
Click to expand...
Yup, they'd all be a Black Green Zombie Avatar.
 
Chorazin said:
Yup, they'd all be a Black Green Zombie Avatar.
Click to expand...

What happens if you have multiple Essences with different attributes? Do all the effects just fire at once and you get to pick which one resolves last?
 
ultron87 said:
What happens if you have multiple Essences with different attributes? Do all the effects just fire at once and you get to pick which one resolves last?
Click to expand...
I don't think there's any way to get two Essences into play simultaneously. Whichever comes in second would be a copy of the first.
 
The_Technomancer said:
I don't think there's any way to get two Essences into play simultaneously. Whichever comes in second would be a copy of the first.
Click to expand...

Someone could Evil Twin your Essence and then you Mind Control the Twin back to your side. So you'd have one with the Evil Twin ability and one normal one.

Obviously this isn't the most common circumstance.
 
Isn't it the case with multiple state based effects that conflict (i.e. "All creatures are 1/1" and "All creatures are 2/2") that the last one to come into play is the one that's applied? Not that this is the case necessarily for multiple Essences.
 
OnPoint said:
Say I play Rise from the Grave (4B -- Sorcery -- Put target creature card in a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.) and select an Essence of the Wild (3GGG -- Avatar -- Creatures you control enter the battlefield as a copy of Essence of the Wild. 6/6).

That would mean that every creature that enters the battlefield would be that card, but also a black zombie, right?
Click to expand...

Sounds like it to me. But only if Essence of the Wild is in the graveyard (obviously). Though, I think the definition of "enters the battlefield" is a bit confusing because while I think you're right, they could also mean "enters the battlefield after Essence of the Wild comes onto the battlefield."

Cyrillus said:
Isn't it the case with multiple state based effects that conflict (i.e. "All creatures are 1/1" and "All creatures are 2/2") that the last one to come into play is the one that's applied? Not that this is the case necessarily for multiple Essences.
Click to expand...

Essence of the Wild turns into when "tapped" from the grave by Rise from the Grave into a 6/6 Avatar-Zombie. Any cards that enter the battlefield turn into a 6/6 Avatar-Zombie because that's what Essence of the Wild is "currently" because it came from the grave and turned into a zombie. But that's only if I'm reading the rules/text right.
 
I'm looking through the Planeswalker's Guide for NPH and I found it funny that, though INN is dedicated to classical horror, everything in the set is completely vanilla compared to the art and themes in SOM block.
 
Played against my buddy's B/U zombie deck. What an annoying deck. I had to deal with him pumping mostly 2/2 zombies while having control. All of his stuff had flashback and graveyard shenanigans to give him a steady mix of aggro and control. He can get beefy creatures out really quickly too while usually being able to summon them right back if they go into the graveyard. How good do yall see B/U zombie deck being?
 
Scenario time:

I have a Mogg Maniac in play ( 1R, Whenever Mogg Maniac is dealt damage, it deals that much damage to target opponent. 1/1).

I play Chain of Plasma (1R, Instant, Chain of Plasma deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Then that player or that creature's controller may discard a card. If the player does, he or she may copy this spell and may choose a new target for that copy.). I select my Mogg Maniac as the target.

Does the spell resolve, killing the Mogg Maniac before I can copy it and target it again? Or can I discard cards from my hand indefinitely, stacking the spell on the one creature.

Bonus: Replace Chain of Plasma with Chain Lightning (R, Sorcery, Chain Lightning deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Then that player or that creature's controller may pay {R}{R}. If the player does, he or she may copy this spell and may choose a new target for that copy.)
 
Once one copy of the spells resolves and kills the Maniac any additional spells targetting at the Maniac will fizzle because they have no valid target anymore. You can copy the spell a bunch of times and have them all be targetted at the creature, you just won't get the damage stacking effect you are looking for. Nevermind on that part, as the post below me explains.

It's the same as someone hitting creature with a Doom Blade before another spell hits it.
 
@OnPoint: I believe the Mogg Maniac would die once it takes the damage the first time, since Chain of Plasma has an intervening "then."

-Chain of Plasma is cast
-Chain targets Mogg
-Chain damages Mogg
-Mogg deals its damage, then dies
-Player is allowed to copy Chain

This should be the same for Chain of Plasma and Chain Lightning. Damage exists outside of the stack now, so you won't be able to respond to the damaging of the Mogg Fanatic.
 
Ahh. Thanks guys. That's what I figured about the Mogg combo, but you guys are great for rules confirmation. The truth is disappointing sometimes. I'll have to just make him indestructible in order to make that combo work I guess haha

y2dvd said:
Played against my buddy's B/U zombie deck. What an annoying deck. I had to deal with him pumping mostly 2/2 zombies while having control. All of his stuff had flashback and graveyard shenanigans to give him a steady mix of aggro and control. He can get beefy creatures out really quickly too while usually being able to summon them right back if they go into the graveyard. How good do yall see B/U zombie deck being?
Click to expand...

Zombies with graveyard manipulation are some of the worst decks to play against in my experience because I don't often account for graveyard removal in my defense. I've been tempted by this set to make B/U deck using them... what cards/combos does your friend's rely heavily on?

It's to the point where I might have to start putting removal in though. My friend has this sick zombie deck that uses Gempalm Polluter (Cycling {B}{B} ({B}{B}, Discard this card from your hand: Draw a card.) When you cycle Gempalm Polluter, you may have target player lose 1 life for each Zombie in play.). He returns it to his hand with Unholy Grotto (Black, Tap: Put target Zombie card from your graveyard on top of your library.)

Sickening combo. God I wish you could counter a cycled card's ability.
 
y2dvd said:
Played against my buddy's B/U zombie deck. What an annoying deck. I had to deal with him pumping mostly 2/2 zombies while having control. All of his stuff had flashback and graveyard shenanigans to give him a steady mix of aggro and control. He can get beefy creatures out really quickly too while usually being able to summon them right back if they go into the graveyard. How good do yall see B/U zombie deck being?
Click to expand...

They have potential but they'll get crushed later on IMO. Rotation always puts aggro on top for a while because control needs to find ways to hinder it. Once it does, it becomes very difficult for these decks to perform. As this is not pure aggro, it might become a tier 2-3 deck. THing is, it's too early to tell, we will have to wait for a major event before telling.

I'm building a B/W control deck. The thought of bringing back a Liliana with a Sun Titan is just too good to ignore. Here's my deck, a work in progress :

Manabase (22)
4x Isolated Chapel
9x Plains
9x Swamp

Spells (38)
3x Sun Titan
4x Fiend Hunter
4x Blade Splicer
4x Oblivion Ring
4x Dismember
2x Day of Judgment
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Condemn
4x Phyrexian Rager
2x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Army of the Damned
2x Gideon Jura

Sideboard
Nevermore
Divine Offering
Doom Blade
etc.
 
I played some Magic last month, my first game in over 4 years :D
I still have my old school control/copy deck, running on Clone (4x Beta), Vesuvian Doppleganger (4x Unlimited) and Serra Angel ^^ it sucks balls nowadays, but for nostalgia it's still a great deck
 
Wow, Stormkirk Noble jumped to 10 dollars a pop based on SCG Open results? Someone is going to make a lot of money before that bubble bursts.
 
Trying to decide if I want to take Solar Flare or Big Red to states. Both decks are fun to pilot, and I think Solar Flare has some devastating god-hands, but I'm starting to think Big Red may be better suited against the meta.
 
OnPoint said:
Ahh. Thanks guys. That's what I figured about the Mogg combo, but you guys are great for rules confirmation. The truth is disappointing sometimes. I'll have to just make him indestructible in order to make that combo work I guess haha



Zombies with graveyard manipulation are some of the worst decks to play against in my experience because I don't often account for graveyard removal in my defense. I've been tempted by this set to make B/U deck using them... what cards/combos does your friend's rely heavily on?

It's to the point where I might have to start putting removal in though. My friend has this sick zombie deck that uses Gempalm Polluter (Cycling {B}{B} ({B}{B}, Discard this card from your hand: Draw a card.) When you cycle Gempalm Polluter, you may have target player lose 1 life for each Zombie in play.). He returns it to his hand with Unholy Grotto (Black, Tap: Put target Zombie card from your graveyard on top of your library.)

Sickening combo. God I wish you could counter a cycled card's ability.
Click to expand...
I love the Gempalm Polluter, he's awesome in my all creatures Zombie deck.

EDIT: Wait, is he Cycling and then drawing it back using the Grotto? I don't think it works that way, he must discard and draw for Cycling, he can't activate the Grotto between discard and draw AFAIK.
 
I have been working Solar Flare, and have a few twists that are showing potential but I will be honest big red is honestly the biggest threat.
 
Hex said:
I have been working Solar Flare, and have a few twists that are showing potential but I will be honest big red is honestly the biggest threat.
Click to expand...
Big Red seems better poised against RDW and Steel, and not much can stand up to Koth's emblem, which the deck can create reliably.

Here's the Solar Flare list I'm currently piloting.
Lands
3x Darkslick Shores
2x Drowned Catacombs
1x Glacial Fortress
6x Island
3x Isolated Chapel
4x Plains
3x Seachrome Coast
4x Swamp

Creatures
2x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Grave Titan
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Sheoldred, the Whispering One
1x Wurmcoil Engine

Spells
4x Dissipate
4x Forbidden Alchemy
2x Go for the Throat
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x Mana Leak
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Sphere of the Suns
4x Think Twice
2x Unburial Rites

Sideboard
3x Day of Judgement
1x Doom Blade
3x Flashfreeze
2x Gideon Jura
3x Phyrexian Crusader
3x Timely Reinforcements
Click to expand...
 
Is anyone else thinking of making mono black zombies? Buildung it with geths verdict, doom blade/gftt, sheolred, grave titan, endless ranks, moan of the hallowed, a couple zombie lords, the new black mythic that kills non demon creatures when another one dies. Was going to go UB but the blue zombies(skaab ruinator) are hard to play for. Exiling creatures isn't really that fun.
 
Chorazin said:
I love the Gempalm Polluter, he's awesome in my all creatures Zombie deck.

EDIT: Wait, is he Cycling and then drawing it back using the Grotto? I don't think it works that way, he must discard and draw for Cycling, he can't activate the Grotto between discard and draw AFAIK.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm not sure how he does it. Next time we play I'm going to bring this up. It slows his combo down massively if that's the case, but it's still pretty nasty.
 
Random stupid question, are Werewolves counted as both Werewolves and wolves? Essentially does Howlpack Alpha give them +2/+2?

Not that I'm gonna make a werewolf deck or anything, I learned my lesson with Zendikar. I made a neat B/W Sanguine Bond/Vampire deck when Zendikar hit, oh my god the 12 year olds at the card shop who would brag about their vampy decks made me never want to play it.
 
DarthWufei said:
Random stupid question, are Werewolves counted as both Werewolves and wolves? Essentially does Howlpack Alpha give them +2/+2?

Not that I'm gonna make a werewolf deck or anything, I learned my lesson with Zendikar. I made a neat B/W Sanguine Bond/Vampire deck when Zendikar hit, oh my god the 12 year olds at the card shop who would brag about their vampy decks made me never want to play it.
Click to expand...

Just werewolves
 
@OnPoint: The combo doesn't work.

From Gatherer:
When you cycle this card, first the cycling ability goes on the stack, then the triggered ability goes on the stack on top of it. The triggered ability will resolve before you draw a card from the cycling ability.
Click to expand...
The life loss will occur before he draws his card from Cycling. Hope this helps!
 
Keru_Shiri said:
Big Red seems better poised against RDW and Steel, and not much can stand up to Koth's emblem, which the deck can create reliably.

Here's the Solar Flare list I'm currently piloting.
Click to expand...


Lands
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Drowned Catacombs
2x Darkslick Shores
5x Plains
4x Island
2x Swamp

Creatures
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Grave Titan
3x Sun Titan
2x Phantasmal Image

Removal
2x Doom Blade
1x Go For The Throat
1x Tribute to Hunger
2x Day of Judgment
1x Dismember
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Ratchet Bomb

Spells
3x Liliana of the Veil
4x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Mana Leak
1x Timely Reinforcements
2x Unburial Rites

SIDEBOARD
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Day of Judgment
4x Celestial Purge
2x Divine Offering


Is my list right now.
(Still need to get the Sphynx though and may replace it with a Rune Scarred Demon until I get one)


This one I was just reading and looks kind of sessy but I would replace Grave with Sun and I love Phantasmal Images so they would have to be worked in

3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Mana Leak
2 Doom Blade
2 Dismember
2 Day of Judgment
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Dissipate
4 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Unburial Rites
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Grave Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Consecrated Sphinx
3 Think Twice
1 Gideon Jura
2 Plains
4 Swamp
3 Island
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Isolated Chapel
1 Nephalia Drownyard

Sideboard
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Divine Offering
2 Flashfreeze
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Day of Judgment
2 Negate
2 Dead Weight
2 Surgical Extractio
 
Keru_Shiri said:
@OnPoint: The combo doesn't work.

From Gatherer:

The life loss will occur before he draws his card from Cycling. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

But it still returns it so he can draw it and repeat the process next turn, no?
 
OnPoint said:
But it still returns it so he can draw it and repeat the process next turn, no?
Click to expand...
Yes, he can repeat it next turn. But he can't get it back from the Cycling itself. There's no opening in the middle of the cycling effect where he can put it on top of his library before the "draw" part happens.
 
@Hex: I think my lack of Snapcasters is hurting me the most, but ugh at that $30 price tag. How has your list tested against aggro? G/W Humans and RDW seem like they'll be big players for now, to day nothing of all the Wolves and Vamp decks.
 
Keru_Shiri said:
@Hex: I think my lack of Snapcasters is hurting me the most, but ugh at that $30 price tag. How has your list tested against aggro? G/W Humans and RDW seem like they'll be big players for now, to day nothing of all the Wolves and Vamp decks.
Click to expand...

It all comes down to how I draw to be honest.
I usually end up eating two or three good swings before I can get things under control at worst with a ratchet bomb or a DoJ but it is managable.
Bad draw obviously goes badly lol.
I am seriously considering a few Mental Missteps mainly because it deals with nasty first turn rush and also gets rid of the two biggest threats to my grave (Nihil Spellbomb and Surgical Extraction).


Edit:

Luckily in my two boxes I was Lucky enough to get two Snaps and 1 Lil (among other good things..I saw some sad boxes opened) so only had to get one more.
Getting two more Lilis was what hurt.
 
Hex said:
It all comes down to how I draw to be honest.
I usually end up eating two or three good swings before I can get things under control at worst with a ratchet bomb or a DoJ but it is managable.
Bad draw obviously goes badly lol.
I am seriously considering a few Mental Missteps mainly because it deals with nasty first turn rush and also gets rid of the two biggest threats to my grave (Nihil Spellbomb and Surgical Extraction).


Edit:

Luckily in my two boxes I was Lucky enough to get two Snaps and 1 Lil (among other good things..I saw some sad boxes opened) so only had to get one more.
Getting two more Lilis was what hurt.
Click to expand...

I got two Snaps out of the two boxes we opened but no planeswalkers. I was pretty disappointed by that, but meh, what can you do.

Would have loved to have seen a GrimGrim too.

Am I the only one who feels that cards like Surgical Extraction undermine the game?
 
OnPoint said:
I got two Snaps out of the two boxes we opened but no planeswalkers. I was pretty disappointed by that, but meh, what can you do.

Would have loved to have seen a GrimGrim too.

Am I the only one who feels that cards like Surgical Extraction undermine the game?
Click to expand...

I think Surgical Extraction were needed.
I will counter your Extraction and then Surgical Extraction your Surgical Extraction!
It is a strong card but it means that someone is having to pull something else out of their deck to run it.
 
I think it's overpowered, but I hate 'in-game banning' in general. If you run 4 Surgical Extractions you can take 16 cards out of somebody's deck for four mana. I guess it needing to come out of a graveyard is for the sake of balance, but coupled in a discard deck... ugh.

Wait... then you could Snapcaster it... Oh God. What an awful deck that would be to play against.
 
Chorazin said:
I love the Gempalm Polluter, he's awesome in my all creatures Zombie deck.

EDIT: Wait, is he Cycling and then drawing it back using the Grotto? I don't think it works that way, he must discard and draw for Cycling, he can't activate the Grotto between discard and draw AFAIK.
Click to expand...
Cycle Gempalm Polluter. Target player loses X life. Draw a card.
At the end of the turn before you, activate the Unholy Grotto.
Draw the Gempalm Polluter aat the beginning of your turn.
Cycle Gempalm Polluter. Target player loses X life. Draw a card...

Still pretty damned powerful. Really fun with stuff like Skirk Ridge Exhumer, Carrion Feeder and Zombies with the Madness ability.
 
OnPoint said:
Am I the only one who feels that cards like Surgical Extraction undermine the game?
Click to expand...

I randomly read an article the other day about why, in a lot of cases, Surgical Extraction isn't that great: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/in-development-how-to-waste-two-life-at-instant-speed/

Seemed to make sense to me. It's good in some cases where a particular card is extremely integral to a deck's winning plan (though with this card they have already managed to cast it once unless you get lucky and they discard it or you mill it), while in a lot of cases it doesn't do much.

With flashback and other graveyard shenanigans, it is probably slightly better now than it was when that article was written.
 
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