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[rCIZZLE]

Yet another argument that would be solved by having every Magic player play about 3 games on Magic Online.

If only they made the prices more reasonable. I'm still kind of pissed about having to spend $10 just to have access to anything. Needing to buy tickets for events is also garbage considering many stores give free prizes with the only buy in being the 3 packs.

He wouldn't be able to play his Snapcaster if you actually ended your turn. Did you ever get the argument resolved?

When you end your turn you're not really doing that. You're entering the end step and passing priority. Turn ends when both players pass priority in a row.

 

[narcosis219]

As I understand it:
P1's End of Turn phase begins.
P1 passes priority.
P2 gains priority.
P2 puts Snapcaster Mage on the stack.
P1 gains priority.
P1 passes priority.
P2 gains prority.
P2 passes priority.
P2's Snapcaster Mage Resolves
End of Turn phase ends because both P1 and P2 have passed priority in a row.

After P2's Snapcaster Mage Resolves, both players recieve priority starting with AP.

Remember that you can respond after any spell resolves.

 

[ultron87]

And wouldn't the Snapcaster's enter the battlefield ability also go on the stack and give everyone a chance at priority?

 

[Keru_Shiri]

When you end your turn you're not really doing that. You're entering the end step and passing priority. Turn ends when both players pass priority in a row.

I know. I was pointing out the flaw in his friend's argument that he couldn't do anything because he "ended the turn."

 

[rCIZZLE]

I know. I was pointing out the flaw in his friend's argument that he couldn't do anything because he "ended the turn."

oh ok

 

[Haly]

And wouldn't the Snapcaster's enter the battlefield ability also go on the stack and give everyone a chance at priority?

Right I didn't consider this.

After P2's Snapcaster Mage Resolves, both players recieve priority starting with AP.

Remember that you can respond after any spell resolves.

Ah, I see. It's not a situation that comes up often I guess so I wasn't sure.

 

[narcosis219]

And wouldn't the Snapcaster's enter the battlefield ability also go on the stack and give everyone a chance at priority?

P1's End of Turn phase begins.
P1 passes priority.
P2 gains priority.
P2 puts Snapcaster Mage on the stack.
P1 gains priority.
P1 passes priority.
P2 gains prority.
P2 passes priority.
P2's Snapcaster Mage Resolves
Snapcaster Mage's ETB Ability is put onto the stack
P1 gains priority
P1 responds with Vapor Snag targetting Snapcaster Mage
Vapor Snag is put onto the stack
P1 gains priority
P1 passes priority
P2 gains priority
P2 passes priority
Vapor Snag resolves, Snapcaster is returned and P2 takes 1 point of damage
P1 gains priority
P1 passes priority
P2 gains priority
P2 passes priority
Snapcaster's Ability grants the instant/sorcery flashback
P1 gains priority
P1 passes priority
P2 gains priority
P2 passes priority
End of Turn

I think that's it.

 

[Haly]

Don't forget cleanup step!

Hurr durr magic arcana.

 

[Sinatar]

P1's End of Turn phase begins.
P1 passes priority.
P2 gains priority.
P2 puts Snapcaster Mage on the stack.
P1 gains priority.
P1 passes priority.
P2 gains prority.
P2 passes priority.
P2's Snapcaster Mage Resolves
Snapcaster Mage's ETB Ability is put onto the stack
P1 gains priority
P1 responds with Vapor Snag targetting Snapcaster Mage
Vapor Snag is put onto the stack
P1 gains priority
P1 passes priority
P2 gains priority
P2 passes priority
Vapor Snag resolves, Snapcaster is returned and P2 takes 1 point of damage
P1 gains priority
P1 passes priority
P2 gains priority
P2 passes priority
Snapcaster's Ability grants the instant/sorcery flashback
P1 gains priority
P1 passes priority
P2 gains priority
P2 passes priority
End of Turn

I think that's it.

Yup.

 

[ultron87]

Was it super critical to the game that his Snapcaster landed there or something? The only situation I can imagine it being worth fighting about is if he can attack with Snappy on his turn for the win (and presumably not have 2 more mana to just play it again after the Snag resolves). And even then you can just snag it on his turn.

 

[narcosis219]

Was it super critical to the game that his Snapcaster landed there or something? The only situation I can imagine it being worth fighting about is if he can attack with Snappy on his turn for the win (and presumably not have 2 more mana to just play it again after the Snag resolves). And even then you can just snag it on his turn.

Pretty much.

You can't prevent the ETB effect of Snapcaster with a Vapor Snag, so if your friend wanted to flashback a Brimstone Volley or something and kill you, then your best bet is to counter Snapcaster or the Brimstone Volley.

Either that, or his friend was at 1 Life with an empty board and he wanted to snag him and kill him before his Upkeep effects gained him life. Or his Pristine Talisman untapped next turn....or something.

For everyone's reference:

116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.

and you can't Vapor Snag Snapcaster right before his Enters the Battlefield ability is put onto the stack because of this:

603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that's not a card the next time a player would receive priority.

 

[Owlowiscious]

hmmm the actual thing that happened (and he later used the eot example) was attackers phase.

I declared attackers. beginning of blockers phase he cast snapcaster mage. I vapor snaged it before he called blockers. he thought he could declare blockers before the vapor snag so my attack would hit air.

1. there's no priority before the declare blockers step. it's at the end of declare attackers step.
2. like the post before, both players get priority (in APNAP order) after a spell resolves.


a while after the game ended, he casually said "you know I don't think you could do that vapor snag, you gave priority. think of it this way... (end of turn example)"


he kept saying "you can only add to the stack, you can respond by playing vapor snag but ther'es no target since snapcaster isn't on the field yet. and you gave me priority so I should be able to cast snapcaster and call blockers before you can respond"

 

[narcosis219]

hmmm the actual thing that happened (and he later used the eot example) was attackers phase.

I declared attackers. beginning of blockers phase he cast snapcaster mage. I vapor snaged it before he called blockers. he thought he could declare blockers before the vapor snag so my attack would hit air.

1. there's no priority before the declare blockers step. it's at the end of declare attackers step.
2. like the post before, both players get priority (in APNAP order) after a spell resolves.


a while after the game ended, he casually said "you know I don't think you could do that vapor snag, you gave priority. think of it this way... (end of turn example)"


he kept saying "you can only add to the stack, you can respond by playing vapor snag but ther'es no target since snapcaster isn't on the field yet. and you gave me priority so I should be able to cast snapcaster and call blockers before you can respond"

Yeah, this is the most common situation to occur right now especially because of restoration angel. There were many a game where I try surprise blocked a sword-equipped delver and I lose cause she gets snagged =(

 

[Haly]

He would have to cast Snapcaster during Declare Attackers or Beginning of Combat, he can't cast anything before blockers are declared in the Block step.

 

[narcosis219]

He would have to cast Snapcaster during Declare Attackers or Beginning of Combat, he can't cast anything before blockers are declared in the Block step.

After all the attackers are declared, priority goes to players. Then the Declare Blockers step starts and the first thing that happens is that blockers are declared.

The situation he is describing above is correct. It's just that "after attackers are declared" is kind of the same as "the beginning of Declare Blockers step" in real play since we aren't actually shouting out all the steps and phases and priority passing.

 

[Haly]

Bah, physical Magic.

::goes back to the automated haven of MTGO::

 

[Owlowiscious]

Yeah, this is the most common situation to occur right now especially because of restoration angel. There were many a game where I try surprise blocked a sword-equipped delver and I lose cause she gets snagged =(

Ok, so going back even further, this is why my friend thinks I'm wrong about everything now. I was wrong once.

fiend hunter + cloudshift = one perma exile and one under the fiend hunter.

there's a fiend hunter with my creature (creature A) under it. I have 1 creature he wants to exile (creature B). he does resto + cloudshift. he wants to perma exile and fiend hunter exile creatures A (again) and B. I say he can't exile creature A.

In the end, I was wrong. But explaining it is insane. It comes down to things adding to the stack at the same time and who puts what in what order.

 

[TheSeks]

Unsure, but I want to make sure: Is lands in M:tG:Online free to slap into decks, or is it WYSIWYG in your collection?

Penny-bot has some lands up for grabs so I'm curious how deck building goes. Is it like other Magic online stuff where you can just slap whatever cards you "own" together and play them (well, obviously not in events in M:tG:Online) or what?

 

[Sinatar]

Unsure, but I want to make sure: Is lands in M:tG:Online free to slap into decks, or is it WYSIWYG in your collection?

Penny-bot has some lands up for grabs so I'm curious how deck building goes. Is it like other Magic online stuff where you can just slap whatever cards you "own" together and play them (well, obviously not in events in M:tG:Online) or what?

You get a ton of basic lands to start with from whatever the current core set is. If you're picky about your lands and want something specific (zendikar lands, unglued or whatever) then you gotta obtain them.

 

[TheSeks]

You get a ton of basic lands to start with from whatever the current core set is. If you're picky about your lands and want something specific (zendikar lands, unglued or whatever) then you gotta obtain them.

Oh, so lands are "free" in a sense to use for deck building? That certainly frees up some card choices for me to look into then.

 

[Owlowiscious]

I just don't know what to do with my life anymore.

Him
07/26/12 11:20:57 YOU'RE WRONG
Me
07/26/12 11:21:33 lol what
Him
07/26/12 11:21:39 about the argument
Me
07/26/12 11:21:47 really? you still think you're right?
Him
07/26/12 11:21:53 i AM right
Me
07/26/12 11:21:55 how so
Him
07/26/12 11:22:03 you interpret the rules wrongly
07/26/12 11:22:10 and you still thinkg "end of turn" is not end of turn
07/26/12 11:22:19 thats where you're wrong
Me
07/26/12 11:22:24 uh huh. go on
Him
07/26/12 11:22:27 you think you still get a chance after you passed
07/26/12 11:22:50 before we even go back to the vaporsnag snapcaster argument, consider this:
07/26/12 11:23:00 when you say: "go"
07/26/12 11:23:15 it implies: go to end of turn phase, and pass priority to non active player
07/26/12 11:23:35 in which case, i can play a spell, such as snapcaster mage
07/26/12 11:23:55 you are right, and it says in the rule: "after each spell, each player gets priority"
07/26/12 11:24:36 so snapcaster mage goes on the stack, APNAP, you're still the AP, you can respond
Me
07/26/12 11:25:05 ok so your'e still saying after a spell resolves there's no priority
Him
07/26/12 11:26:15 so you're saying "end of turn" is still your 2nd main phase?
Me
07/26/12 11:26:24 no it's still end of turn phase
07/26/12 11:26:34 both players recieve priority at end of turn
Him
07/26/12 11:26:45 which you already passed
Me
07/26/12 11:26:46 until all players consecutively pass priority
07/26/12 11:26:57 only one player consecutively passed priority
07/26/12 11:27:00 so after the stack is done
07/26/12 11:27:02 apnap

 

[Haly]

Link him the thing narcosis posted.

 

[Sinatar]

Get him to download the MTGO client and sign on as a guest, after a couple of games he'll stop being such a putz.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Have him go to a PTQ and try the same argument. lol

 

[narcosis219]

I just don't know what to do with my life anymore.

I love how he came back to it after so long. LOL

 

[Sinatar]

So... How about that Krenko.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Been testing out G/W aggro and so far I actually prefer Wolfir Silverheart over Thragtusk. Him and his soulbond partner hits for so hard and add trample with Rancor, it's a force. Thragtusk was a little trickier to play with because I didn't want to trade with their less valued power 3 creature.

Wolfir is just amazing in any deck you slap him in. Thragtusk is more of a build around card.

Thragtusk passes the Vapor Snag test with flying colors, while Wolfir Silverheart is just asking to get blown out mid-combat.

Maindeck one or the other depending upon your meta, and board as appropriate for the matchup.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

10:16 PM - Divisionbyzorro plays Dragonskull Summit
10:17 PM - Divisionbyzorro casts Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
10:17 PM - Barni21 has conceded from the game.

Tee hee.

 

[OnPoint]

10:16 PM - Divisionbyzorro plays Dragonskull Summit
10:17 PM - Divisionbyzorro casts Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
10:17 PM - Barni21 has conceded from the game.

Tee hee.

Hahahaha I love when that happens.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

So... How about that Krenko.

Niiiiice. I have a Krenko Commander deck, and managed to get about 70-something tokens on the table once. Sooooo awesome.

 

[Sinatar]

Niiiiice. I have a Krenko Commander deck, and managed to get about 70-something tokens on the table once. Sooooo awesome.

Yea he hit me from 53 to -30 there by attacking with everything and casting trumpet blast (+2/+0 to all attackers).

 

[fifasnipe2224]

Ouch....
Well I cant wait to start working on my MTGO Goblin Modern Deck. Also working on a Goblin deck to work with my friends Elf deck for 2HG.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I don't know if he's that adamant that you're done then he would be implying that you can't counter anything either since your turn is over. There's no way for his logic to make sense at all.

And I think I have to miss gameday. :/ It's shame because the fullart is actually pretty cool. One of the few ones recently that I like the promos.

 

[Venfayth]

Taking my G/W Human Descendants' Path to FNM tonight since I'm getting off work early

It will probably do horribly, hahaha. I hope it will be fun though.

 

[Dorpheus]

Speaking of Goblins... I'm attempting to make a Standard goblins deck. Any help would be appreciated, as I am still pretty new to the game.

22x Mountains

4x Goblin Chieftain
3x Krenko, Mob Boss
4x Goblin Arsonist
4x Goblin Fireslinger
2x Goblin Wardriver
4x Signal Pest
3x Ember Hauler

4x Krenko's Command
4x Goblin Grenade
4x Shock
2x Pillar of Flame

I've got another Krenko, Mob Boss on hand, but I've been told by someone with more experience that typically you don't want 4 of a legendary creature in your deck unless it's something you absolutely need in your opening hand. Not sure if that's true or not.

 

[Venfayth]

I've got another Krenko, Mob Boss on hand, but I've been told by someone with more experience that typically you don't want 4 of a legendary creature in your deck unless it's something you absolutely need in your opening hand. Not sure if that's true or not.

Personally I think 3 is the right number. It just sucks having more than one of them in your hand, or one in your hand while one is on the field, because it's essentially a blank card until your first one dies.

My G/W humans deck runs Thalia and I've definitely experienced this problem before.

 

[narcosis219]

Speaking of Goblins... I'm attempting to make a Standard goblins deck. Any help would be appreciated, as I am still pretty new to the game.

22x Mountains

4x Goblin Chieftain
3x Krenko, Mob Boss
4x Goblin Arsonist
4x Goblin Fireslinger
2x Goblin Wardriver
4x Signal Pest
3x Ember Hauler

4x Krenko's Command
4x Goblin Grenade
4x Shock
2x Pillar of Flame

I've got another Krenko, Mob Boss on hand, but I've been told by someone with more experience that typically you don't want 4 of a legendary creature in your deck unless it's something you absolutely need in your opening hand. Not sure if that's true or not.

It's very true. You're very likely to draw more than 1 4-of in a game. If you have a high costing legendary, then having more than 1 is just going to result in a dead card in hand.

Of course, having more than one copy means that you can just cast him again after he dies, but a lot of the times having a card in your hand that you can't cast sucks.

 

[WanderingWind]

Can I just say how awesome it is that Goblins are really back in standard? I miss the old tribes. The magic robots and Aliens were cool, but man, MTG to me is elves, wizards, goblins and shit duking it out.

 

[joeygreco1985]

So I dropped 10 bucks on an account for MGO and it came with a bunch of gold-bordered cards. Apparently they're "Planeswalker" deck cards? How do they work?

 

[kirblar]

So I dropped 10 bucks on an account for MGO and it came with a bunch of gold-bordered cards. Apparently they're "Planeswalker" deck cards? How do they work?

You can play them, just not in tournaments, I assume.

 

[Venfayth]

Can I just say how awesome it is that Goblins are really back in standard? I miss the old tribes. The magic robots and Aliens were cool, but man, MTG to me is elves, wizards, goblins and shit duking it out.

MTG to me is getting crushed by snapcaster mage because I started in Innistrad and my friends only play blue.

 

[Pyke Presco]

I think I'm gonna test out a new deck at FNM tonight, and I'm expecting to get absolutely rolled, but it's managed to play about 50/50 against my R/G Aggro, Get 'er Dungrove and Goblins, so its worth a shot. Just wish my roommate hadnt left his deck at a friends place with my snapcasters and vapor snags in it, because they would've been extremely handy to have.

4C Vengeance

Creatures
3 Augur of Bolas
3 Talrand, Sky Summoner

Enchantments
4 Burning Vengeance

Sorcery/Instant
3 Day of Judgment
3 Geistflame
1 Vapor Snag
2 Desperate Ravings
2 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Faithless Looting
4 Mana Leak
4 Think Twice
4 Lingering Souls
2 Feeling of Dread

Land
3 Island
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Evolving Wilds
3 Drowned Catacomb
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Clifftop Retreat


Not sure what to do with the sideboard, maybe some bonfires for aggressive decks, drogskol captains and intangible virtue to buff the tokens to make me hit a little harder against control, smelts for dealing with pods/swords and tormods crypt/nihil spellbombs for reanimator. I have no idea what gets played at the local shop, havent gone in like 2 months.


EDIT: Also, I agree with Wandering Wind, love having Goblins back. Nothing will ever be as awesome as Goblin Bidding with Skullclamp, but they're still pretty decent. Here's my current build:

Creatures:
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Fireslinger
4 Spikeshot Elder
4 Mogg Flunkies
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Hellrider

Instants/Sorceries
3 Incinerate
3 Shock
2 Krenkos Command
3 Goblin Grenade
1 Reforge the Soul
3 Faiths Reward

Land
17 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Clifftop Retreats

Definitely still needs some tweaking, and I'm not sure whether the Faith's Rewards are as great as I thought it might be at first. It doesn't quite flow as well as Patriarch's Bidding did back in Onslaught Block, but it's still pretty cool tech and can definitely cause a turn 4 blowout against control.

 

[fifasnipe2224]

Yea I like it when MTG revolves around the creatures. Massive amounts of Goblins, Elves, Myrs, Zombies, and Merfolk. Or a few overpowered Dragons and Hydras. Epic battles are what make this game.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yea I like it when MTG revolves around the creatures. Massive amounts of Goblins, Elves, Myrs, Zombies, and Merfolk. Or a few overpowered Dragons and Hydras. Epic battles are what make this game.

Yeah, they realized that as well a few years back, which is why creature power level has slowly been ramping up (although I think/hope its leveling off now)

 

[Sinatar]

Speaking of Goblins... I'm attempting to make a Standard goblins deck. Any help would be appreciated, as I am still pretty new to the game.

22x Mountains

4x Goblin Chieftain
3x Krenko, Mob Boss
4x Goblin Arsonist
4x Goblin Fireslinger
2x Goblin Wardriver
4x Signal Pest
3x Ember Hauler

4x Krenko's Command
4x Goblin Grenade
4x Shock
2x Pillar of Flame

I've got another Krenko, Mob Boss on hand, but I've been told by someone with more experience that typically you don't want 4 of a legendary creature in your deck unless it's something you absolutely need in your opening hand. Not sure if that's true or not.

Goblin Wardriver is definitely worth having 4 of. I'd replace the fireslingers with Spikeshot elders who synergize with the warcry. Maybe replace a couple of your burn spells with Goblin Arms Dealers for cheap repeatable goblin grenade effects.

 

[ultron87]

So I dropped 10 bucks on an account for MGO and it came with a bunch of gold-bordered cards. Apparently they're "Planeswalker" deck cards? How do they work?

You can only play them against other decks made with Planeswalker cards in the "New Player Room".

I've actually gotten a ton of enjoyment out of MGO just by playing with those cards and only spending the initial ten bucks. It is pretty much just like playing Duels of the Planeswalkers but with totally customizable decks.

 

[BlewHedgehog]

Our FNM is a charity event tonight, so I'm definitely going. I put together a new pile:

4 Restoration Angel
4 Blade Splicer
4 Lingering Souls
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Elesh Norn
2 Grave Titan
3 Priest of Urabrask
3 Burn at the Stake
2 Bonfire
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Sphere of the Suns
3 Shrine of Loyal Legions
23x Lands

The plan is dumb. Make a lot of little guys. Ask opponent how he likes his steak. Medium-rare? That's too bad, cuz I BURNED IT! The Priest is the obvious cut, as he was a holdover from Version 1.0 which ran Sun Titan, far fewer RRR enablers for BatS, and Cloudshift to make 5 mana Elesh Norns happen. The front runner to replace him right now is Blood Artist, although I'm unsure how valuable that guy is without any sac engines. I would probably play Killing Wave in the board and he seems like one of the few ways to keep Thundermaw Hellkite from auto-killing me. The Grave Titans look a little out of place maybe, but I know I'm playing black to flashback Lingering Souls, and he would seem way less awkward if Blood Artist makes the deck. Oblivion Ring is also up in the air in case some better removal is out there. Any tips?

(Note: Sound advice involving not playing Burn at the Stake is not acceptable XD)

 

[y2dvd]

I think I'm gonna test out a new deck at FNM tonight, and I'm expecting to get absolutely rolled, but it's managed to play about 50/50 against my R/G Aggro, Get 'er Dungrove and Goblins, so its worth a shot. Just wish my roommate hadnt left his deck at a friends place with my snapcasters and vapor snags in it, because they would've been extremely handy to have.

4C Vengeance

Creatures
3 Augur of Bolas

I will say this card has cost me more often than not. I'd cut it down to 1-2.

 

[joelseph]

I will say this card has cost me more often than not. I'd cut it down to 1-2.

Examples!

 

[Pyke Presco]

I will say this card has cost me more often than not. I'd cut it down to 1-2.

I have found the same. Again, if my roommate's deck wasn't elsewhere those would be 3 snapcasters, but as is I think they're an ok alternative. I do like having that little extra dig, but sometimes this deck gets a little screwed on mana and seeing 2 or 3 duals shipped to the bottom of the library is frustrating. We'll see how it goes, maybe I'll cut one and throw in another alchemy or something.