ComputerMKII
Banned
Fillon just stated that the commitee's decision (to declare Copé winner of the election) was 'illegal'.
Main French conservative party close to melt-down
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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Fillon just stated that the commitee's decision (to declare Copé winner of the election) was 'illegal'.
And here we go again.
UMP imploding + Hollande getting eroded in the goverment due to the crysis = FN winning an ellection
Not looking good, really. Not looking good at all.
This is only happening in the US. The Spanish center is far, far at the left of Germany's, England's or France's, not to mention that, even if the ascension of extreme right wing parties such as Golden Dawn is worrysome as hell, the "alternative left wing" is growing at a far briskier pace (Syriza, ICV, AGE, etc).
Not looking good, really. Not looking good at all.
This is only happening in the US. The Spanish center is far, far at the left of Germany's, England's or France's, not to mention that, even if the ascension of extreme right wing parties such as Golden Dawn is worrysome as hell, the "alternative left wing" is growing at a far briskier pace (Syriza, ICV, AGE, etc).
Sickboy007
Member
If the center-right in Italy actually goes through their "primaries" (as it seems), I expect it to be 1000x as lulzworthy.
Civil suits, full blown media war, thousands of splinter parties, possible seppukus and mafia hits.
Civil suits, full blown media war, thousands of splinter parties, possible seppukus and mafia hits.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Nah, that's science fiction. Anyway, there won't be an election before 2014, lots of things can happen till then.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
I await Berlusconi's triumphant return to politics.
Sickboy007
Member
I hope he doesn't listen to his last sane advisors and actually goes through with his plan, even a Merkel-Cameron ticket would win against him.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Yet the right is getting more extreme while keeping its centrist image. Also, the PSOE ceased to be leftist a long time ago. It shouldn't be a surprise that IU is stealing their lunch money.
But alas, this thread is about France and les lols.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
There is no identity crisis among Democrats in the US. We've been a straight center party since Bill Clinton and we're happy where we are. The Republicans are the ones with the identity crisis. They can't agree on what they stand for and they have no leader to rally behind.
Actually science-fiction would be the FN economic program (and I use the term science VERY loosely), that would be pure fantasy.
It simply can't happen due to how the system is made.
In the mean time....
Rocard : "Il n'y a plus de perspectives de croissance"
If all the #TeamFillon gets into that group, there won't be any UMP group left...I can live with that.
Missed this thread somehow.
Heh. I'd just advise to read the last few posts on Authueil's blog. Let's just say I agree that this breakup is a good thing for everyone including the right, far better than having five years of UMP under Copé's leadership.
Heh. I'd just advise to read the last few posts on Authueil's blog. Let's just say I agree that this breakup is a good thing for everyone including the right, far better than having five years of UMP under Copé's leadership.
Actually it's better for everyone BUT PS, Copé and Le Pen.
PS would absolutely benefit from having Copé being in charge!
He's a caricature that is so easy to defeat.
LePen well lol.
And the election was pretty harmless before, only the annoying tweet from #team Copé or Fillon but that's it, now it's beyond pathetic
Flatline
Banned
Leftists are correct and the right has become extreme right (as known as neoliberalism) the last few decades. If you want to call Hollande a leftist then point me to his socialist policies, and I mean socialist as in the people controlling the means of production socialist.
France's economic policies generally lean towards the left by international standards anyway. Even the FN loves our welfare state (well, at least for the whites & christian).
But on social issues, Hollande is generally seen as center-left, or "soft left". Which is softly for gay marriage, softly for human and immigrants rights etc. However, Sarkozy really reached for the extreme during the campaign on these, threatening to leave Schengen, focusing on family and christian values... even his closest advisor, Patrick Buisson, was a former journalist from a nationalist newspaper. Hell, this guy could even be the very reason why the UMP is breaking up now, between those who agree with his views (Copé) and those who think it's better to go back to the middle (Fillon).
But on social issues, Hollande is generally seen as center-left, or "soft left". Which is softly for gay marriage, softly for human and immigrants rights etc. However, Sarkozy really reached for the extreme during the campaign on these, threatening to leave Schengen, focusing on family and christian values... even his closest advisor, Patrick Buisson, was a former journalist from a nationalist newspaper. Hell, this guy could even be the very reason why the UMP is breaking up now, between those who agree with his views (Copé) and those who think it's better to go back to the middle (Fillon).
En virant les votes de certaines circonscriptions accusées de fraudes l'autre jour. Les concernées donnaient beaucoup d'avance a Fillon. C'est pratique.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Is there anything about Hollande that isn't 'soft'?
What's scary is that the "Strong Right" programme won the UMP elections , it's a programe created by a former FN member which is scary as fuck.
They want to restore the military service, remove the right to strike for teachers, stop public funding for unions, forbid the construction of minarets,get rid of the CMU (a health coverage service for people not covered by other services), make Muslims sign a Republican chart, add to the Constitution that France is a "Secular Republic of Christian Tradition", go back to 40h workweek, force public tv channels to hire right wing journalists (FUCKING LOL)
http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2012/11/20/1493927-ump-la-droite-forte-en-tete-c-est-qui-eux.html
This is some pure FN bullshit, look at this shit.
They want to restore the military service, remove the right to strike for teachers, stop public funding for unions, forbid the construction of minarets,get rid of the CMU (a health coverage service for people not covered by other services), make Muslims sign a Republican chart, add to the Constitution that France is a "Secular Republic of Christian Tradition", go back to 40h workweek, force public tv channels to hire right wing journalists (FUCKING LOL)
http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2012/11/20/1493927-ump-la-droite-forte-en-tete-c-est-qui-eux.html
This is some pure FN bullshit, look at this shit.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Look, a gold nugget in a pool of manure!
ComputerMKII
Banned
David Douillet said Sarkozy was pissed off and would intervene in the next few hours.
His girlfriend's penis
crazy monkey
Banned
politician lol
Thou askth, thou get answers
Seriously that's the second most hot topic of the day...behind this drama.
And the leftist are correct? Like in the 80's?
Cause last time they pulled this crap we ended up with the very golden rule they were so much against.
No, not really. Our unions are crap but they're not Chicago ganster union crap.
edit : One of the comments in one of the article I linked cracked me up :
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
French unions are a heck more combative than the complacent filth we have over here, but public funding of unions (unless secured in a completely transparent and fair way) is the best recipe for corruption. I'm really uncomfortable with such notion. I've seen way too many "fake" strikes called just to save face at the time when unions were reveling in public money while not moving a finger for their workers.
Again I'm not saying our unions are even close to being useful,
all I'm saying is that they haven't been overrun by the mob...yet.
Sickboy007
Member
lolwut
Flatline
Banned
Nationalized natural resources isn't just a socialist concept, many sensible nations that don't want their national wealth being pillaged by multinational corporations have done that at some point and very few were socialist. Again, this isn't workers controlling the means of production, say that when they're nationalizing factories and redistributing farms on a massive scale. I don't think you realize what socialism is.
If that ever happens, I'll just leave.
What you're describing is not socialism though, at least not in the context of this thread.
What american call socialism is not what we, in France, call socialism that much is clear.
What you're describing is actually what we call here communism.
Best would be to look up the schism between the SFIO and the communist party at the turn of last century because they haven't changed much since then.
If you're claiming that your definition of socialism is the only one, well we're left in a true Scotmans fallacy were anyone but Poutou is not a socialist.
reggieandTFE
Member
This isn't entirely true. The Democratic Party would be in a much stronger position in state and local politics if it hasn't ceded the white middle class by aligning so closely with Wall St insiders and radical free trade policies (NAFTA, CAFTA, etc).
You'd need a landslide victory on both Senate and NA to even have that (and from the hard right too).
I can guarrantee that's not happening any time soon
I've been across the ocean in NYC since early July, and despite occasional reading of Le Monde/Le Figaro I hadn't really followed this until I that even Chinese newspapers here were talking about it :lol
As someone who very reluctant voted for Sarkozy in May (after voting Bayrou two weeks earlier, :lol), I'm actually hoping for a split. I want Fillon to drop all the far right fear mongers so we can finally have a center-right party that is on the right side of history when it comes to social issues such as gay rights or immigration.
As someone who very reluctant voted for Sarkozy in May (after voting Bayrou two weeks earlier, :lol), I'm actually hoping for a split. I want Fillon to drop all the far right fear mongers so we can finally have a center-right party that is on the right side of history when it comes to social issues such as gay rights or immigration.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Just vote for the Socialist Party, there's no difference from the UMP apart from social issues.
Actually there is,
UMP doesn't have someone as stupid as Montebourg or Sapin...
But they have...
ComputerMKII
Banned
:lol
Science fiction or not, the original Le Pen was able to be the second most voted presidential candidate with a much less radicalized ellectorate and better economic conditions...
Having several relatives inside of non goverment funded unions I say: hell yes. Public funding of unions is one of the worst ideas ever. EVER.
Revisionist history much? Democrats used to be a left wing party, but not any more. You guys would barely pass as Reagan - era conservatives. Democrats allowed the GOP to tilt the American political center to the right even more during the Bush years but whatever, this tread is about les lols du la France and there's a whole webcomic devoted to the pussification of Democrats already.
And the reason it happened wasn't because the turnout for LePen was higher but that the turnout for Jospin was an historical low. Lepen didn't do any better than the election before (was it European?).
That's not happening again considering how the political class is absolutely scare shitless of that ever happening again.
Here if your union is representative enough it gets funds, the rules are pretty clear.
But barely anyone ever get into the unions, they're deemed pointless and worthless.
I can tell that in my company they're worse than worthless.
Ikael, Democrats were completely disoriented in 1988 after losing five of the past six presidential elections (in blowouts each time), but in the 24 years since then, despite the 1994/2010 blowouts, despite the Bush years, they've managed to stay united and very much so relevant. You could maybe compare the UMP to the Democrats of 1988, but if you want to make a current-day comparison the only choice on the US side is the GOP.
Btw, you and Mael already have similar names, get yourselves an avatar so I stop mixing your posts up! :lol
If Valls and (who is with Valls anyways?) would split from Aubry/Montebourg, I'd vote for that center-left party easily.
Btw, you and Mael already have similar names, get yourselves an avatar so I stop mixing your posts up! :lol
If Valls and (who is with Valls anyways?) would split from Aubry/Montebourg, I'd vote for that center-left party easily.
A party ranging from Borloo to Valls with Bayrou in the middle wouldn't be so bad,
we could even get things done... and I mean good things.
Well it's a fact that France is country of predominantly Christian tradition, can't deny that.
But either it's a secular republic or it's not, there is no "of Christian tradition"bullshit since a secular republic is supposed to be neutral toward all religions. Wanting to include this in the constitution goes against the core principle of separation of church and state where the state should not recognize any religion as its own.
They like to claim they are attached to patriotism (what's the pride in this by the way) but it's like everything they propose is in direct opposition to the french moto Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite. They disgust me and I don't even consider myself Left leaning.
They should also consult some specialists to address their obsessional fear of Islam, it's getting ridiculous.
Thanks fucking God for that, seriously. I was playing the devil's advocate here, I just wanted to be sure that won't have a bigger case of Golden-Dawn-itis as the crisis unfolds.
Spanish unions are some of the worker's worst enemies, and this is not hyperbole. Always looking to help their political, subsidy - provider political party pimp rather than the worker's interests, always coward towards big business and downright abusive and exploitative with the smaller ones (they need to get "street creed" by thugging easy targets), God help you if the company you work at happens to be big, ruled by an ex - politico or *shudders* both things at the same time (I am looking at you, Iberia, Telefonica, Renfe, Endesa and a loooong etc).
1)
Nobody EVER cared about Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité for quite some time.
I mean we're talking about people coming from a special school that are training them to be above the population if anything.
The whole education system in that regard is a sham.
2)
Laïcité doesn't apply to the whole of France, Alsace is still under Concordat
3)
the rest of France is actually more of secular tradition than christian if anything, seriously we burned enough church and replaced enough teachers to make sure of that.
Heck the blonde moron actually put a little water in her wine by making sure to get rid of the more extreme part of the party (only to get them back later on...).
She can't win with the crazies in France, that's a total impossibility unless the situation is FUBAR in which case that will be the least of our problem.
Wow, I didn't know it was THAT bad.
I fear that situation is where we're heading anyway...
Although they already lost plenty of support from the base when they asked people to not vote for Sarkozy...which was the dumbest thing they could have ever done.
Flatline
Banned
What on earth are you talking about dude? Parties don't define an ideology, its characteristics do. The basic definition of socialism is workers controlling the means of production, end of story. It's like saying that the socialism in Spain is actually capitalism because the socialist party there (which is only socialist by name) has been practicing capitalism for years. You certainly can't be serious with all this.
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