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Major US airlines lobby Trump to block Arab competitors

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A

aeolist

Banned
https://theintercept.com/2017/02/09/airline-competition-trump/

JUST BEFORE U.S. airline industry CEOs met at the White House with Donald Trump on Thursday, the big three carriers — Delta, United and American — released a video featuring some of Trump’s populist rhetoric about “trade cheats” and directing viewers to a website for a lobbying campaign to “protect American jobs.”

But the campaign, called the Partnership for Open & Fair Skies, is in reality a cutthroat bid to block certain Arab airlines from U.S. airports — a decision analysts say would limit the choices for consumers while increasing market consolidation for the big three.

This comes after a similar request for protection during the Obama administration — which sought to prevent foreign competitors from offering lower prices — was largely rebuffed.
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The big three U.S. airlines maintain that Emirates, Etihad Airways, and Qatar Airways — airlines backed by governments of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates — are unfairly subsidized and that their expansion into the U.S. market represents unfair competition that should be blocked by regulators.

...

But the Gulf carriers counter that they provide flights to the Middle East, Europe, and India that have been long ignored by U.S. airlines and that the charge of unfair subsidies is boldly hypocritical given the tens of billions dollars in subsidies granted to the airline industry by various U.S. government agencies for decades.

Travel industry writer Gary Leff scoffs at the lobbying campaign, arguing on his blog Boarding Area that the “U.S. airlines are highly subsidized, and subsidies do not in any way violate our treaties.”
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In 2015, at outset of the campaign to pressure the Obama administration to squeeze out foreign competition, CNN’s Richard Quest asked Delta Airlines Chief Executive Richard Anderson about Gulf carriers’ claims that the big three received favorable government treatment using bankruptcy protection.

“It’s a great irony to have the United Arab Emirates from the Arabian Peninsula talk about that given the fact that our industry was really shocked by the terrorism of 9/11 which came from terrorists from the Arabian Peninsula that caused us to go through a massive restructuring,” Anderson responded.

Invoking 9/11 to attack the Gulf carriers makes no sense beyond an appeal to bigotry. None of the 9/11 hijackers were from Qatar. Two were from the UAE, but the vast majority — 15 — were from Saudi Arabia, the home of state-subsidized airline Saudia, which is a Skyteam partner with Delta Airways. Saudia has not pushed to compete directly with the big three, and therefore has not been targeted by the Partnership for Open & Fair Skies.
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Bonus! The campaign is being run by a firm called SKDKnickerbocker, which is closely affiliated with the Democratic party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKDKnickerbocker

SKDKnickerbocker is a progressive public affairs and political consulting firm that specializes in working for Democratic Party politicians. It has offices in Washington, DC, New York City, Los Angeles, CA, and Albany, New York. The firm employs notable figures like former Obama White House Communications Director Anita Dunn, Bill Burton, and Hilary Rosen.

...

SKDK's political clients have included Barack Obama, Andrew Cuomo, Michael Bloomberg, and Christine Quinn.
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D

Dingens

Member
I'm not surprised really...
If Delta, United and American can't compete through fair means, maybe they should stop shoving money up their shareholders asses and instead invest in their staff and planes.
 
B

BlitzKeeg

Member
Dingens said:
I'm not surprised really...
If Delta, United and American can't compete through fair means, maybe they should stop shoving money up their shareholders asses and instead invest in their own personal and planes.
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And making flying a miserable experience in nearly every facet by trying to squeeze every last dollar out of the consumer. Pay your blood money for 4 more inches of leg room!

This is some bigoted bullshit, which is why I could see Trump going for it.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Shitty as the slave-states of the Gulf are, they get air travel *right.*

US Airlines need to learn a thing or two from every other country on the planet, but UAE is definitely up there amongst the examples.
 
K

kirblar

Member
All airlines are subsidized heavily. This is protectionism, point blank.
aeolist said:
?
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Trying to blame this on the Democrats is ridiculous. The Obama Admin told them to kick rocks when they lobbied for this, and the only connection is a third-party political consulting firm that works for both Democratic campaigns and liberal interest groups alongside mainstream business clients like AT&T/Facebook.

They may have picked up SKD hoping for insider connections, but it clearly wasn't an idea that actually produced any results due to buying Dem party access if the campaign failed under Obama but worked under Trump.
 
Thelonelykoopa

Thelonelykoopa

Member
It's the american way, when you can't keep up with the rest of the world shut your self off from it ; You are always number one in isolation.
 
A

aeolist

Banned
kirblar said:
Trying to blame this on the Democrats is ridiculous. The Obama Admin told them to kick rocks when they lobbied for this, and the only connection is a third-party political consulting firm that works for both Democratic campaigns and liberal interest groups alongside mainstream business clients like AT&T/Facebook.

They may have picked up SKD hoping for insider connections, but it clearly wasn't an idea that actually produced any results due to buying Dem party access if the campaign failed under Obama but worked under Trump.
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i don't see any part of my OP where i insinuated that this was a democrat-led idea.

corporatism is the problem here, i added the addendum to point out that this is not solely a right-wing issue because otherwise there would just a ton of "republicans lol" posts.
 
B

Blader

Member
Delta and American are awful airlines.

aeolist said:
i don't see any part of my OP where i insinuated that this was a democrat-led idea.

corporatism is the problem here, i added the addendum to point out that this is not solely a right-wing issue because otherwise there would just a ton of "republicans lol" posts.
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lol, yeah, that was the reason.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
So let me see if I'm clear, Obama told this campaign no, but if Trump says yes, the OP believes it's still somehow partially the fault of the Democrats?

aeolist said:
i don't see any part of my OP where i insinuated that this was a democrat-led idea.

corporatism is the problem here, i added the addendum to point out that this is not solely a right-wing issue because otherwise there would just a ton of "republicans lol" posts.
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I mean but this issue is because... Obama said no.

Because if this happens only the GOP will have said yes.

SO I guess congrats instead of lol Republicans (the people who have the power to make this happen) some of us are talking about you throwing in the Democrats (whose last President already said no) for no real reason instead.
 
K

kirblar

Member
aeolist said:
i don't see any part of my OP where i insinuated that this was a democrat-led idea.

corporatism is the problem here, i added the addendum to point out that this is not solely a right-wing issue because otherwise there would just a ton of "republicans lol" posts.
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When only one side is actually acquiescing to the demands, it is a right-wing issue.

Businesses lobbying the government is fine. They have the right to do so just like any other citizen or interest group.
 
E

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
Stupid question, but do any of the Arab airlines offer domestic flights in the US? Cuz I will totally take one if they do.

I see their planes at my airport sometimes, and I wonder if they have layovers or shorter flights on the way to wherever they're going.
 
A

aeolist

Banned
Blader said:
lol, yeah, that was the reason.
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crony capitalism and regulatory capture are imo some of the biggest political problems of our time. they need to be fought relentlessly across the spectrum and partisanship is a massive hindrance to that.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
aeolist said:
i don't see any part of my OP where i insinuated that this was a democrat-led idea.

corporatism is the problem here, i added the addendum to point out that this is not solely a right-wing issue because otherwise there would just a ton of "republicans lol" posts.
Click to expand...


The right wing aspect is the populist racism and terror fearmongering.



The lack of outrage on the electronics ban today feeds into that.

If it had been the UK (evil spies who wiretap presidents), Sweden (terrorist hellhole) or Germany (Lesbian-ruled fist crushing iron grippers) then the reaction would be much more pointed, IMO.

The dems are almost as corporatist and Wall Streety in some regards, as the GOP, but they at least have policies that serve to balance that. The GOP is 100% lopsided with a hint of Old Testament Jesus.


One REAL objection is that a few Arab airlines subsidize costs. Business Class and First Class in particular receive huge floats from the respctive govts. Works for me as a passenger tho. I will take subsidizd luxury over "fair" rudeness and tiny seats. I almost wish I could fly Emirates and the ilk more frequently.
 
O

OG Shaka Zulu

Member
Arab competition is unfair? Why because there's actually space on the planes and you can still get a free meal while on board?

US' airlines suck.
 
W

woodchuck

Member
Having the middle eastern airlines encroaching on US routes is good for American passengers right? More competition right?

But on the flip side, if it's hurting American workers, can they enact some policy that if middle eastern airline companies want to fly certain routes in the US, they have to hire X percentage of American employees?
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
OG Shaka Zulu said:
Arab competition is unfair? Why because there's actually space on the planes and you can still get a free meal while on board?

US' airlines suck.
Click to expand...

Since I've moved to the US, I've never had to take local airlines but I've heard plenty of stories to make me dread if I ever do, and just wonder if driving would be safer/better for me.

Emirates were pretty frigging awesome for me, tickets were cheaper than other US bound flights, service was good and they were feeding the shit out of me lol. I think I had 4 full course meals in a 17 hour flight.
 
S

siddx

Magnificent Eager Mighty Brilliantly Erect Registereduser
This is nothing new. US airline companies have been complaining and lobbying for this for years. They also have a bit of a point. While most airline companies are indeed subsidised, for instance for flying to small Podunk airports, Qatar and UAE are accused of doing so to such a huge degree that there is no way any other airline in the world can compete.
Not that I feel much sympathy for the US major airlines who have spent decades shitting all over customers.
 
K

kirblar

Member
aeolist said:
get back to me when the DNC no longer allows lobbyists and contractors to be voting members
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And of course the goalposts get moved to something completely different. (The idea that a lobbyist for Planned Parenthood shouldn't be able to be a DNC member is completely ridiculous, btw.)

It's not like the Dems were trying to reduce barriers to competition the last time they were in the White House or anything.

This stuff has support on the more libertarian-leaning parts of the party, the issue is that it runs smack dab into political realities and interest groups all over the political spectrum.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
aeolist said:
crony capitalism and regulatory capture are imo some of the biggest political problems of our time. they need to be fought relentlessly across the spectrum and partisanship is a massive hindrance to that.
Click to expand...

yeah well you keep fucking that chicken as the gop runs circles around that, gain more power, and destroy many basic levels of institution for their own benefit
 
O

OG Shaka Zulu

Member
chandoog said:
Since I've moved to the US, I've never had to take local airlines but I've heard plenty of stories to make me dread if I ever do, and just wonder if driving would be safer/better for me.

Emirates were pretty frigging awesome for me, tickets were cheaper than other US bound flights, service was good and they were feeding the shit out of me lol. I think I had 4 full course meals in a 17 hour flight.
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LOL! That sounds like a hell of a flight. I've flown in Asia and the Middle East, US planes are garbage in comparison. The NYC subway trains are more comfortable.
 
F

frontovik

Banned
All's fair in love, war, and business as far as the human race is concerned.

No sense of fair play & playing every trick in the book is what gets corporations ahead.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
aeolist said:
"the republicans are worse!" didn't work for them last year and i don't see that changing much
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the point of the post was to tell you good luck focusing on lobbying as a thing most people care about when the gop is busy gaining power and dismantling critical infrastructure.

on the list of things that need addressing. lobbying is now quite low on the list.
 
K

kirblar

Member
GoldenEye 007 said:
the point of the post was to tell you good luck focusing on lobbying as a thing most people care about when the gop is busy gaining power and dismantling critical infrastructure.

on the list of things that need addressing. lobbying is now quite low on the list.
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The general problem with "lobbying" as an issue is that people are generally only unhappy with lobbyists who are supporting groups/policies they don't like.
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
Every airline is heavily subsidized, this is just another form of it. Free market is a buzzword that rarely carry any real meaning (see the "free market" for food industries in the US which are heavily subsidized compared to the ones in europe or anything really...).
 
C

Cyanity

Banned
Guess I'm not flying with Delta, United or American airlines anymore. Been a big Jet Blue fan for a while anyway.
 
M

M.Bluth

Member
It's amazing how quickly, and severely, travel to the US is becoming more and more unattractive.

If I was living somewhere that requires taking a 10 to 20 hour long trip to get to America, I simply wouldn't bother visiting if I had to fly with an American airline.
I don't even know anyone who had a decent experience with US airlines. They can get fucked.
 
H

hanspampel

Banned
Dingens said:
I'm not surprised really...
If Delta, United and American can't compete through fair means, maybe they should stop shoving money up their shareholders asses and instead invest in their staff and planes.
Click to expand...

you think Etihad and Emirates compete through fair means? ;)
 
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