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[timetokill]

119 stabs is a massive number. Try just getting a pumpkin or watermelon or something and stabbing it 100 times. It's exhausting.

The amount of rage this guy must have had is truly off the charts.

 

[nomis]

That's my take, yeah. It's one thing to talk about how unfair it is that trans people have to be mindful of this. It's a whole 'nother thing when you're actively encouraging it by criticizing a victim. Like I said, we do not see this kind of victim blaming - at least not permissibly - for other protected classes. A woman is raped, anyone who blames her for her outfit or for being in a bad part of town gets a grey name. A black person is unjustly killed by police while running, the only people who criticize the person for running has a grey name. All I want to see is some consistency, you know? Not to say that mods are turning a blind eye, but I'm seeing some posts where, if certain details were flipped, I don't think would be as permissible as they are.

tl;dr Finger waving at a victim of a horrible hate crime is pretty darn victim blamey.

If people were so sensible we might never get to the bottom of the transgender “deception rape” epidemic

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Why should trans people confirm to an unfair situation? Maybe the onus is on everyone to foster an environment that doesn't have them fearing for their lives every time they go on a date.

You're goddamn right! The world should work toward being fair, not making excuses for why it isn't yet!

 

[Spectone]

119 times is pure psychopath territory. When he is released they need to keep a watch on him.

 

[EGM1966]

119? That's astonishing rage and hate right there.

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

And I guess trans folk just get to carry all of the unfair weight eh?

I'm black so there is enough unfair for the both of us

Why not try and reinforce the idea that all cis people should indicate whether they are okay with sexual relations with a trans person?

If telling someone they are straight would prevent them from being murdered, I wouldn't be against it.

Why should trans people confirm to an unfair situation? Maybe the onus is on everyone to foster an environment that doesn't have them fearing for their lives every time they go on a date.

Again, you striving for a fair and equal world, which is fine, but at it's not happening fast and it's not something that's gonna be forced overnight. How many black parents had to tell their child during the civil rights movement to not provoke by whistling at a white woman or drinking from the wrong fountain. The shit was wrong, but while fighting for our equality, they still had to move on pins and needles. Less you end up hanging somewhere. This man stabbed her over 100 times after they knew each other for months. If she would have told him on The first day, she would likely be alive. Being "In the closet" became a thing for a reason, and now no one gives a fuck when someone comes out gay. Trans people will get there too, but for the time Being, they should practice caution like so many other marginalized groups have. Is it right? Hell no, is it safe? That's questionable. I hope I don't come out as a casual bigot, but trans people are one of the few groups I can empathize with, but I know so little about them as a group.

 

[Lowmelody]

Glad we're finally hashing out how rape applies to trans ppl trying to simultaneously not die and have human intimacy in a thread about a woman getting mutilated for it.

I feel so stupid for expecting anything different.

 

[Giever]

Is the whole "transgender folks should properly explain their situation to their potential partner" talk really the right thing to do in here? 'Cos really it feels like "Well she should have been more clear about her being a transgender so that the man would not stab her"

It was a fucking horrible thing he did, and also she probably should've disclosed it beforehand. Both things can be true, and people shouldn't have to pussyfoot around on a discussion forum when it's a totally reasonable thing to point out given the situation. Saying "she ought to have told him beforehand" isn't victim blaming, and nobody should have to surround any such statement with multiple sentences of how shitty the guy obviously is just to say it without everyone assuming they're trying to defend a fucking psycho killer.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Why should trans people confirm to an unfair situation? Maybe the onus is on everyone to foster an environment that doesn't have them fearing for their lives every time they go on a date.

Why? I'm sorry but people are utter shits, as evidenced by the fact that this woman was brutally killed. I'm sure she operated under the same principle of not feeling obligated to tell until the very last minute but here we are. People take precautions all the time in life, including in bars when women put their hands over drinks to stop potential rapists from spiking their drinks.

Is it unfair that women have to do those things? Absolutely. But should they be expected not to do that simply because you've got a problem with conforming to an unfair situation?

Make that point with your own life if you want, don't recommend others do it for you.

 

[Gnome]

I don't think you need to tell Trans people they are in more danger than you are for being different. They probably already fucking know, wtf are you accomplishing by reinforcing the idea by repeating it back to them?

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I don't think you need to tell Trans people they are in more danger than you are for being different. They probably already fucking know, wtf are you accomplishing by reinforcing the idea by repeating it back to them?

Because there are people in here seriously suggesting they shouldn't reduce the chances of bodily harm simply to forge a better world for others. It's a stupid idea.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

This doesn't classify for a hate crime?

 

[Gnome]

Because there are people in here seriously suggesting they shouldn't reduce the chances of bodily harm simply to forge a better world for others. It's a stupid idea.

God forbid this person take a single risk by going on a date and not expect to get murdered for it.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

God forbid this person take a single risk by going on a date and not expect to get murdered for it.

And you expect others to not mitigate the chances of getting assaulted or killed just to promote your idealised concept of the world?

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

God forbid this person take a single risk by going on a date and not expect to get murdered for it.

That's the key word right there. As long as you acknowledge that it's indeed a risk, you can acknowledge there are ways to reduce risk.

 

[duckroll]

Because there are people in here seriously suggesting they shouldn't reduce the chances of bodily harm simply to forge a better world for others. It's a stupid idea.

I don't think this really reduces any chance of bodily harm. She was not murdered because the normal reaction to disclosure is getting stabbed 119 times. She was murdered because she had the misfortune of having a relationship with an insane person who is now in prison. There is potentially crazy people like that anywhere. When is the reasonable "right" time for disclosure? You could meet up with someone for a date, tell them you are a transgender, and get an insane reaction which ends with you getting killed too. You cannot predict insane behavior that is far from the norm.

That's the key word right there. As long as you acknowledge that it's indeed a risk, you can acknowledge there are ways to reduce risk.

Living is a risk.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...some-brooklyn-turns-violent-article-1.3259754
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...after-fight-breaks-out-london-warehouse-party

Stop. Victim. Blaming.

 

[Lowmelody]

That's the key word right there. As long as you acknowledge that it's indeed a risk, you can acknowledge there are ways to reduce risk.

Do you think trans ppl don't see it as a risk?

This thread

 

[WorldofMiku]

First of all, no excuse on what the murderer did. He deserves more than 40 years in prison. 40 years IMO is too soft. Hopefully after 40 years, he is on his last legs or have died.

I'm just disappointed on what the victim did. You're a trans, and didn't tell the killer that you're a trans until after you had sex with him. That to me is a little unfair.

This is something you have to confront before having any sexual interaction. (Besides, if he rejects you after that, then he doesn't deserve you in the first place.)

But stabbing Dee (or any trans OR any person for that matter) is not the answer and is insane. WTF was this murderer thinking?

 

[GrizzleBoy]

119 times.........

In the face and neck?

How do you not instantly feel remorse the FIRST time you sink a blade into someone's face and witness the fear, blood and agony?

40 years....

 

[Gnome]

And you expect others to not mitigate the chances of getting assaulted or killed just to promote your idealised concept of the world?

That's the key word right there. As long as you acknowledge that it's indeed a risk, you can acknowledge there are ways to reduce risk.

You miss the point. If they know what the risk is for being transgendered, which they do considering they're living transgendered, then you pointing out that they didn't "reduce risk" as much as they could have doesn't accomplish anything other than reinforce the idea that they didn't conform enough to the world hating them.

 

[Acorn]

119 times.........

In the face and neck?

How do you not instantly feel remorse the FIRST time you sink a blade into someone's face and witness the fear, blood and agony?

40 years....

Sociopathic nutter probably.

 

[GHG]

I don't think this really reduces any chance of bodily harm. She was not murdered because the normal reaction to disclosure is getting stabbed 119 times. She was murdered because she had the misfortune of having a relationship with an insane person who is now in prison. There is potentially crazy people like that anywhere. When is the reasonable "right" time for disclosure? You could meet up with someone for a date, tell them you are a transgender, and get an insane reaction which ends with you getting killed too. You cannot predict insane behavior that is far from the norm.

I want to make it clear that what I'm about to say is completely unrelated to the story posted in the OP (the whole thing is 100% fucked up and nobody deserves to die at the hands of an unhinged lunatic like that - none of what happened was her fault).

In response to the bold:

In my opinion the right time would be in the first discussion before a meeting/date takes place, but I understand why it doesn't happen like that very often because of fear of rejection. Transparency and openness from the very start of relationships is never a bad thing.

 

[FutureLarking]

When is the reasonable "right" time for disclosure?

Definitely before a form of sex. Perhaps this incensed the man even more... However who can say, we don't know how crazy the man was. Perhaps even if they had told him before the date he could have been angry enough to meet them anyway and do the same, perhaps the "sex" pushed him overboard. Either way, he's nuts.

 

[duckroll]

In my opinion the right time would be in the first discussion before a meeting/date takes place, but I understand why it doesn't happen like that very often because of fear of rejection. Transparency and openness from the very start of relationships is never a bad thing.

How many first dates begin with full disclosure of the private things? What is the social expectation of transparency? Should there be an expectation of "disclosure" of full racial background just in case someone might be a secret racist if you don't look like a minority? Should there be an expectation of "disclosure" of sexual history just in case someone might expect a chaste partner? Should there be an expectation of "disclosure" for any disorder, chronic illness, or disability which a person might be embarrassed about? Do you discuss past abortions on a first date? Miscarriages? Erectile dysfunction? Transparency is good, healthy, and necessary for a strong relationship, but before it gets there, there generally isn't a huge barrier to just get to know each other. And I think that's reasonable!