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[Surface of Me]

Old man is clearly in the wrong, but at this point in America you gotta know robbing a home puts your life on the line.

 

[Winterfang]

This reminds me of that home invasion entrapment double murder thread where people kept trying to convince me that the two dead bodies were criminals and should be put to justice.

At least, that's the only reason I can imagine for why they'd be talking more about them robbing a guy than him shooting them.

That other guy was in some SAW level shit.

 

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

Just watched the video. Yeah, she didn't deserve to be killed, but when you enter someone's home (and multiple times), you are asking for whatever comes next and it's your own fault. They rolled the dice and lost, as cruel as the loss was.

That old man is super cold, though.

 

[Toxi]

The Byron Smith killings aren't even comparable because they were premeditated and this was not.

In the eyes of the law, that is a big, big distinction.

In the eyes of the law, he shot someone begging for mercy and off his property. I'm not sure how you think he's going to stay out of jail.

 

[FkLA]

If you don't want to get shot then don't break into other people's houses.

Plain and simple really. My home is supposed to be where my family and I feel safe. Citizens should have the right to use deadly force if they find an intruder in their home.

 

[Minion101]

Wish the robber that got away was getting some form of punishment.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Old man is clearly in the wrong, but at this point in America you gotta know robbing a home puts your life on the line.

I'm puzzled why these comments are necessary. I don't see anyone arguing that robbing a house is not a dumb-as-shit thing to do.

These kind of comments just come across as an attempt to justify murder without outright saying as much.

 

[KHarvey16]

If you don't want to get shot then don't break into other people's houses.

Plain and simple really. My home is supposed to be where my family and I feel safe. Citizens should have the right to use deadly force if they find an intruder in their home.

Citizens have that right. However by his own account he was not exercising that right in this case.

 

[Aurongel]

In the eyes of the law, he shot someone begging for mercy and off his property. I'm not sure how you think he's going to stay out of jail.

You should probably have a closer look at my post history because I clearly mentioned that he is going to jail (based on him pursuing them off his property) but not for the same reasons as Byron.

 

[Toxi]

If you don't want to get shot then don't break into other people's houses.

Plain and simple really. My home is supposed to be where my family and I feel safe. Citizens should have the right to use deadly force if they find an intruder in their home.

The intruder wasn't in his home when he shot her.

 

[ICKE]

You have to be twisted to do something like that to an elderly person. Obviously the outcome was not good (there is no confirmation if the female was pregnant), he definitely reacted badly, but sending this old man to prison would serve no purpose..

 

[goldenpp72]

I find these situations conflicting, but considering they robbed the dude multiple times, i'd say wanting them dead was a rational outcome to what is basically torment (when will they come back a forth time, will they kill me next time? Etc)

 

[MikeDown]

Based off what is said in the article I can't see how this is justified, cold to shoot someone in the back as they flee. But then at the same time they shouldn't be robbing houses in the first place. Not sure what grampa was thinking, maybe he's off his meds.

EDIT: Deplorable as it is I don't see the point really in jailing him, he is probably close to death and is only a menace to thieves. Though maybe take away his gun, IDK.

 

[speculawyer]

Wish the robber that got away was getting some form of punishment.

Oh he will. He might even get murder.

 

[CountAntonius]

 

[KHarvey16]

Oh he will. He might even get murder.

Yeah if they catch him, and they should since he seems to have some relationship to this guy, he could very well be charged with murder alongside the old man.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

Come on. He could have held her at gunpoint and told her to come inside and wait until the cops come. She begged for her life. She believed she would be shot. You admit you wouldn't. What are you trying to get at here?

And what happens if she doesn't come back with you? You pull a gun you have to be prepared to use it.

And I never said I wouldn't shoot. Please believe if someone had the balls to come in here and put my families welfare in jeopardy 3 times I will do what's necessary to ensure there isn't a 4th time. Clearly the cops can't.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Shooter is a maniac. He's more of a danger to society than the robbers were.

 

[badb0y]

Good shot if you ask me. Robbing an 80 year old man multiple times these people were clearly not good people.

 

[KHarvey16]

And what happens if she doesn't come back with you? You pull a gun you have to be prepared to use it.

And I never said I wouldn't shoot. Please believe if someone had the balls to come in here and put my families welfare in jeopardy 3 times I need to do what's necessary to ensure there isn't a 4th time. Clearly the cops can't.

I can think of nothing better for a family than a father locked away in prison. Way to put them first.

 

[Downhome]

Shooter is a maniac. He's more of a danger to society than the robbers were.

I know, right? The dude has been gunning down innocent people for 80 years now. It's about time they finally caught this hardened criminal.

 

[Winterfang]

Wish the robber that got away was getting some form of punishment.

His partner got kill, if they where a couple then his girlfriend/Wife and Future child also got murdered. Probably will get thrown in jail if they find him also. I don't see a happy ending in his future.

 

[Toxi]

It would serve no purpose to send him to jail, it's not like he is a danger to society - only dangerous to thieves.

EDIT: Deplorable as it is I don't see the point really in jailing him, he is probably close to death and is only a menace to thieves. Though maybe take away his gun, IDK.

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that shooting a person unlawfully while she was fleeing, unarmed, and begging for mercy does not warrant jail time.

 

[Sanjuro]

Shooter is a maniac. He's more of a danger to society than the robbers were.

Doesn't seem like it.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

Shooter is a maniac. He's more of a danger to society than the robbers were.

Explain how the person who minds his own business unless a criminal act is performed on him is more of a danger to society than a group of habitual thieves.

 

[Anteo]

Come on. He could have held her at gunpoint and told her to come inside and wait until the cops come. She begged for her life. She believed she would be shot. You admit you wouldn't. What are you trying to get at here?

Wait, why would she stop anyways? She was running away when she got shot right?

 

[jett]

That man is a psychopath.

But you shouldn't have been robbing people's homes.

 

[kurtrussell]

Let's not forget that she chose what she did. Poverty stricken or not, she had the opportunity to decide if she wanted to rob the guy. This whole "poor lamb, society failed her" thing - if that's the case why isn't everybody on the breadline breaking into houses to escape their poverty?

Free will. I've heard of it.

 

[captmorgan]

Shooter is a maniac. He's more of a danger to society than the robbers were.

Why? Chances of him shooting me because I dont break into houses..zero, chances of being robbed greater than zero. Id have to say they were a greater danger.

I`m sorry I firmly believe if you break into someones home you basically forfeit your rights including your life. You are at the complete mercy of the home owner and what they decide to do. I`m not an American so I dont have access to guns at the same level but I can guarantee I would not stop swinging a baseball bat until the home invaders stopped moving.

 

[ICKE]

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that shooting a person unlawfully while she was fleeing, unarmed, and begging for mercy does not warrant jail time.

Because he is 80 years old and apparently this wasn't the first time these two robbed this old man. What purpose is there to put this guy in prison, it's not like he would come out rehabilitated 10-20 years later?

Take his gun away or restrict him by some other means.

 

[KHarvey16]

Let's not forget that she chose what she did. Poverty stricken or not, she had the opportunity to decide if she wanted to rob the guy. This whole "poor lamb, society failed her" thing - if that's the case why isn't everybody on the breadline breaking into houses to escape their poverty?

Free will. I've heard of it.

Has anyone expressed an opinion in this thread challenging that position in the slightest? Most of the things being said in here seem to be in response to no one.

Edit
See the post directly below for a timely example.

 

[dorkimoe]

What he said was wrong. But sorry don't rob my house.

Some of you people put scumbag thieves lives up on a pedestal and apparently have no regards for your personal property that you worked hard for. What the fuck is she doing robbing a house while pregnant? Seriously. Anyone?

 

[creamfarts]

That old man is super cold, though.

Seems like he's a little senile. When your mind goes, you tend to talk about things with a sense of detachment.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

I can think of nothing better for a family than a father locked away in prison. Way to put them first.

I can, a safe home that isn't getting burglarized on a routine basis.

 

[Minion101]

That man is a psychopath.

But you shouldn't have been robbing people's homes.

Nah he acted out of emotion. They only lost interest in robbing and assaulting him because of the threat to their lives.

 

[TheContact]

And what happens if she doesn't come back with you? You pull a gun you have to be prepared to use it.

And I never said I wouldn't shoot. Please believe if someone had the balls to come in here and put my families welfare in jeopardy 3 times I will do what's necessary to ensure there isn't a 4th time. Clearly the cops can't.

Pulling the gun to get her inside or to stay still until cops arrive I am ok with. It's the cold blooded murder I'm not.

I was referring to the point you made when you said you believed you wouldn't get shot, not do the shooting. You were putting yourself in the victims shoes.

 

[Toxi]

Because he is 80 years old and apparently this wasn't the first time these two robbed this old man. What purpose is there to put this guy in prison, it's not like he would come out rehabilitated 10-20 years later?

Take his gun away or restrict him by some other means.

We shouldn't imprison old people because they can't get rehabilitated?

I think a lot of people seem to not understand how serious killing someone is.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

I don't know what any of these individuals were thinking.

 

[KHarvey16]

I can, a safe home that isn't getting burglarized on a routine basis.

You know, maybe a father willing to put his own need to exact revenge over the best interest of his family is doing them a favor by going to jail. That's very selfless now that I think about it.

 

[kurtrussell]

Future child also got murdered.

This confuses me. If they file a separate murder charge for the unborn baby, doesn't this conflict with the legal status of abortion?

I have no horse in this race one way or another, but I find it extremely puzzling that it's okay to kill an unborn life in one circumstance, but in another circumstance that can be considered murder, despite the fact that it's not even born. How can these be separated? Where's the line?

 

[KHarvey16]

This confuses me. If they file a separate murder charge for the unborn baby, doesn't this conflict with the legal status of abortion?

I have no horse in this race one way or another, but I find it extremely puzzling that it's okay to kill an unborn life in one circumstance, but in another circumstance that can be considered murder, despite the fact that it's not even born. How can these be separated? Where's the line?

You honestly can't think up a difference between a mother choosing to abort a pregnancy and a man murdering a pregnant woman?

 

[Wired]

Look, if someone has broken into your home I feel you have the right to defend yourself however you see fit. Is my stuff worth more than a life, even a robbers, no. But that's not the point, in that situation how can you tell if things are going to stop at a robbery or escalate into something more serious? You can't, and saying that people should just gamble their lives hoping that this guy is a nice criminal. I mean come on.

That said, shooting someone in the back as they are running away, even if they have robbed you 3 times? I'm not so ok with that.

 

[Minion101]

This confuses me. If they file a separate murder charge for the unborn baby, doesn't this conflict with the legal status of abortion?

I have no horse in this race one way or another, but I find it extremely puzzling that it's okay to kill an unborn life in one circumstance, but in another circumstance that can be considered murder, despite the fact that it's not even born. How can these be separated? Where's the line?

Yes, this is an inconsistency in US law.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

You know, maybe a father willing to put his own need to exact revenge over the best interest of his family is doing them a favor by going to jail. That's very selfless now that I think about it.

Yeah because it's better to tell my wife and kids, hey I know we have been robbed 3 times in the recent past and you cant sleep at night because of it but because the cops are incompetent you just have to know that at any moment two people can come in here, jump you, and take our things and there isn't much I can do about it.

I'm sure that would do wonders for them.

 

[Toxi]

I can, a safe home that isn't getting burglarized on a routine basis.

Honestly, I'd rather have a father around.

 

[kurtrussell]

You honestly can't think up a difference between a mother choosing to abort a pregnancy and a man murdering a pregnant woman?

Apart from that fact that if I cared enough to have an opinion, I'd say the abortion was arguably even more pre-meditated than the being gunned down?

Morals aside, my query was one of definition. If it's not murder to abort because the life is unborn and therefore not considered "alive", then how can this be completely contradicted with a murder count against her unborn child?

 

[Vermillion]

Um...im not sure how to feel about this.

Neither did I, but upon actually reading the OP? Fuck this guy.

 

[jackdoe]

Has anyone expressed an opinion in this thread challenging that position in the slightest? Most of the things being said in here seem to be in response to no one.

Yes, on the first page in fact:

You do realize that people turn to crime mostly out of desperation right? It's like they thought it would be fun to break into some dude home. Poverty, lack of education, these things lead to crime. Just because they steal things doesn't make them automatically worthless to society. It means society failed them.

I'm assuming this is the post that they are replying to.

Honestly, there isn't much in the article to go by and it could very well end up being that the woman was never pregnant. However, shooting someone TWICE in the back isn't self defense.

 

[statham]

I'm conflicted and the video help made me conflicted, theres a good chance if he didn't getaway away and grab a gun, he may be dead too, they tackled him, broke his collar bone and still continued to rob him until he got the gun.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

I really dont understand some peoples stance here, so what if he shot her in the back or she pleaded for her life, she should have thought of that shit before robbing him for the third time.