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[SolidSnakex]

"Like those group of teens who went around for several weeks in a city robbing cars because they got the idea from GTA"

eh? since when is TWOC'ing on a grand scale a new thing? This used to happen all the time in my town when i was a teenager, and we are taking around 1990 here.

No GTA to blame, so i think dance music got the blame.

When people say "we got the idea from GTA" - i instantly think this is "the get out clause".
OH, i can't make my own decissions, GTA has warped my fragile little mind. Bullshit. Detention centre for you.

That sort of common sense doesn't work with some people, DC. It seems people forget about the carjackings thats gone on for years when something like this happens.

Here's a some quotes from that GTA case:

"A gang of teenagers in California, charged with plotting carjackings and murder, say their actions were inspired by playing Grand Theft Auto, morning, noon, and night."

"In Oakland, Calif. a group of young people who called themselves the "Nut Cases" told police they played violent video games before going out and robbing and killing random victims on the street. They said their favorite was Grand Theft Auto. The five men and one woman are facing charges in dozens of robberies and five killings that took place in 2002 and early 2003."

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/gma/US/GMA030905Grand_theft_murders.html

 

[Fatghost]

Manhunt isn't a terrible game. I can think of hundreds of games that I enjoyed less.

 

[emerge]

Bullshit. let's all castrate ourselves, drink ginger ale, and only play Mario as that's the only way to stay safe from the violence.

The fact that millions of people were able to find a clear distinction between their acts of violence in games and committing violence in reality spit right in the face of any arguement that can be made in which games are to blame for fucked up kids killing folks or commiting crimes

Music doesn't Kill. Games don't kill. Already screwed up people do.

Bullshit to you too. The fact that millions of people don't carry over their virtual doings into reality doesn't disprove that depictions of violent acts, real or virtual, as well as repeatedly carrying out virtual acts of violence can have an effect on individuals. Why else would defense forces be using combat simulations? Army psychologists are quite knowledgeable on the matter of lowering inhibition tolerances.

Ya, guns don't kill people, humans do! Guns for everyone!

 

[Xellos]

I've played a ton of violent videogames, and I've seen this argument before with Night Trap, Mortal Kombat, Doom, GTA, etc. Manhunt is the only game where I think the people who want it banned have a legitimate case. The game is vile; it operates on a different level of violence and cruelty than any other game I've ever played. It's interactive trash IMO. At the very least it should not have been made available at traditional videogame outlets anywhere in the world, and (in the US) it should have received an AO rating.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Guns don't kill people. People don't kill people. People with hammers kill people.

 

[Drensch]

When are we gonna get a bunch of hot sapphic babes to mimic DOA vball? We should at least benefit from this bs.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Bullshit to you too. The fact that millions of people don't carry over their virtual doings into reality doesn't disprove that depictions of violent acts, real or virtual, as well as repeatedly carrying out virtual acts of violence can have an effect on individuals. Why else would defense forces be using combat simulations? Army psychologists are quite knowledgeable on the matter of lowering inhibition tolerances.

Ya, guns don't kill people, humans do! Guns for everyone!

So people that have a good head on their shoulders shouldn't be able to enjoy a game like Manhunt, or other violent type games because some psychotic kid might go out and kill someone after playing it? The majority of people who play Manhunt are never going to go out and emulate what they just saw. Mainly because they know there's a difference between whats clearly fantasy and what's reality.

 

[DCharlie]

in terms of video games, i must have killed millions of people / aliens ....

so, *twitch* lyte, Reno *twitch* you still up for meeting up tonight? *twitch*

(hides hammer in pants)

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

I'm a fan of games like GTA and yet somehow I found Manhunt to be offensive both in its broken gameplay and unimaginative story. Violence is nothing without consequence or at least some sort of character development or greater conflict.

 

[GaimeGuy]

*goes back to playing Super Mario Sunshine*

:|

 

[emerge]

So people that have a good head on their shoulders shouldn't be able to enjoy a game like Manhunt, or other violent type games because some psychotic kid might go out and kill someone after playing it?

Don't put words in my mouth. Nowhere I proposed anything like that. Also I thought the difference between MH and other violent games was clear: Manhunt is unlike other violent games. The sole goal of Manhunt is killing people. Kill people to be able to kill more people. Kill them violently. Kill all people so that you can finally take revenge by, you guessed it, killing people. Manhunt pushes you to trespass moral values common in most cultures. Manhunt is snuff. It shouldn't exists.

 

[Mumbles]

Bullshit to you too. The fact that millions of people don't carry over their virtual doings into reality doesn't disprove that depictions of violent acts, real or virtual, as well as repeatedly carrying out virtual acts of violence can have an effect on individuals. Why else would defense forces be using combat simulations? Army psychologists are quite knowledgeable on the matter of lowering inhibition tolerances.

Defense forces usually use combat simulations to teach soldiers how to work together, operate equipment in dangerous conditions, and so forth. They've got far better ways to build people into a killer than those.

Regardless, when you look at cases like this, the perpetrator is usually someone who has been allowed to run loose for years, has a long history of violence and abuse, and basically has no idea how to act in any society. The idea that banning this or that form of media will suddenly allow them to realize where to draw the line is nonsense - he'd most likely have ended up killing someone regardless, and was almost certainly terrorizing people long before he played Manhunt.

So who to blame? The man who did it first (and yes, at 17, I'm going to count you as a man), the parents and authority figures second.

 

[Fatghost]

Defense forces usually use combat simulations to teach soldiers how to work together, operate equipment in dangerous conditions, and so forth. They've got far better ways to build people into a killer than those.

Regardless, when you look at cases like this, the perpetrator is usually someone who has been allowed to run loose for years, has a long history of violence and abuse, and basically has no idea how to act in any society. The idea that banning this or that form of media will suddenly allow them to realize where to draw the line is nonsense - he'd most likely have ended up killing someone regardless, and was almost certainly terrorizing people long before he played Manhunt.

So who to blame? The man who did it first (and yes, at 17, I'm going to count you as a man), the parents and authority figures second.

IAWTP.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The purpose of Manhunt is to kill your enemies to escape. You've got a purpose to what you're doing, even though it might not be a purpose some might like. But it's not just kill, kill, kill as you put it. Is it more violent than alot of other games? Sure, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist because that. Games are going to get even more violent and they have just as much right to exist as any other game. There were alot of people saying that Mortal Kombat shouldn't exist too when it was released, and now most don't seem to even have a problem with it.

 

[emerge]

Oh boy, everytime one of these "blames game" stories pop up everyone goes into defense mode.

Solid:
Somewhere there needs to be a line. Would you defend a child raping sim in the same way? After all it's just virtual, level headed people can discern between pixels and reality, don't they? I am waiting for the KZ Manager remake. Who can genocide jews most efficiently? Worldwide online scoreboard.

 

[FriScho]

In Germany the game was never released but is the first game since 10 years (1994 it was Mortal Kombat 2) that got really banned. That means not even adults are allowed to buy it and stores to sell it (those who already have it, are allowed to keep it but not to show it or sell it to someone else). I beat the game a while ago and think it's not more or less horrible than any horrormovie like "house of 100 corpses" or "monster man". If you decide to kill someone in the real world, you have to be insane and then you will do it with or without a game or movie. Maybe you will use the same methode seen in a movie or game. But the "I now will kill someone" idea is from a sick mind. There are thousands of people who played the game and saw horror movies and nobody even kicked his dog or killed a fly.

 

[DCharlie]

"Would you defend a child raping sim in the same way?"

... (looks around shelves in Japanese stores) Um, these games already exist, and i don't recall seeing any massive child r@ping sprees out here.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Solid:
Somewhere there needs to be a line. Would you defend a child raping sim in the same way? After all it's just virtual, level headed people can discern between pixels and reality, don't they? I am waiting for the KZ Manager remake. Who can genocide jews most efficiently? Worldwide online scoreboard.

Rape of any kind gets on my nerves it wouldn't matter if it was a child or an adult. I'm talking clearly from a violence standpoint. Violence has always been a part of gaming and it's going to get more violent. I don't think it bothers me much because as bad as game violence is, it still can't compare to movie violence.

 

[NWO]

How bout we blame the actual fucker who did it? Why do we have to point fingers at somewhere else other than him?

IAWTP

 

[emerge]

Oh I see, raping is bad, killing is ok. Strange morale. I don't get it why the depiction and the exertion of violence is so fucking widely accepted as being normal... could it be because the media is hammering us with violence 24/7?

Also game violence is in certain aspects worse than movie violence, if only for the fact that it's interactive and requires the player to execute that violence. This is topped only by crap like Bumfights and UFC.

Bread and games for the masses.

 

[SolidSnakex]

"Also game violence is in certain aspects worse than movie violence, if only for the fact that it's interactive and requires the player to execute that violence. This is topped only by crap like Bumfights and UFC."

Bumfights is stupid and should be banned. What's wrong with UFC or other MMA events? I could understand old UFC which was no holds barred, but now they've got actual rules that you've got to fight by. Thai Boxing is alot worse than UFC is as it's basically what UFC once was.

 

[emerge]

The thing wrong with stuff like UFC is that people are just watching it to see two people beat the shit out of each other. I bet many would like the event to go back to it's even more violent origins. After all, that's how it became popular in the first place.

 

[way more]

The thing wrong with stuff like UFC is that people are just watching it to see two people beat the shit out of each other. I bet many would like the event to go back to it's even more violent origins. After all, that's how it became popular in the first place.

In that case get rid of boxing.

 

[DrLazy]

I'm sick of everyone always blaming the parents.

That's bullshit because parents are only one factor in a larger scheme of shaping that sick fuck of kid's mind. Ignoring that he mimicked a videogame in murder would be foolish, and those responsible for getting the game in the kid's hands, even if it is some minimum wage Walmart worker, should be punished. You don't see 14 year olds getting away with buying porn or boose, why is it its so easy to buy M rated games when they can be a lot more harmful considering they involve acting out violent actions-- like going for glory kills by using shards of glass to shove in someone's eyes like in Manhunt.

Kids are definatly influenced by this kind of stuff, it's like this kid that was friends with my little brother once smacked a pool stick against the back of my head because he was pretending to be a power ranger.

I think a number of things went wrong with Manhunt, namely it wasn't given and Adults only rating in the US. I also think Rockstar purposly went the extra mile with the violence to try and gather controversy-- as a way to increase sales.

 

[john2kx]

let 'em ban it.. the game sucks anyway.

 

[Chrono]

Somewhere there needs to be a line. Would you defend a child raping sim in the same way? .

oh please! Don't just throw blanket statements like that.


rape is unacceptable in ALL cases.

Violence in general, on the other hand, is much more complicated.

Before videogames EXISTED societies had heroes that fought bravely in wars and wrote stories the depicted such heroes. Violence isn't always negative in society and THAT'S what videogames take advantage of. In metal gear solid you're a special operative infiltrating bases that belong to the ENEMY for example. It's no different then kids playing war and competing. They did it with wooden swords thousands of years ago and they're doing it with silicon and TVs today.

The only way I see your posts making sense is if you are against violence in ANY circumstances inculding self defense. In that case argue for that first then turn to videogames.

I am waiting for the KZ Manager remake. Who can genocide jews most efficiently?

What the hell is wrong with you? if there's a game that lets you genocide jews it's not the same as Resident Evil or any other violent game because there's a history of jewish genocide and it would be the first game where violence is directed against a certain people. There are no games like that.

 

[Anyanka]

The sole goal of Manhunt is killing people. Kill people to be able to kill more people. Kill them violently. Kill all people so that you can finally take revenge by, you guessed it, killing people. Manhunt pushes you to trespass moral values common in most cultures. Manhunt is snuff. It shouldn't exists.

How is that any different than Mortal Kombat or DOOM though?


Calling Manhunt "snuff" is ridiculous hyperbole. How can you seriously compare any kind of violence in a video game to actual murders? Come on...

 

[TheDiave]

See, and this is a reason why gaming being mainstream sucks.

Nerds don't kill nerds. We band together. Now stupid people.. They kill others. lol.

 

[bishoptl]

Good grief, the hand-wringing pansies are out in full force.

Once you're ready to ban books such as American Psycho...

Once you can prove to me that children were not killing children before Manhunt came on the market...

Once you can prove to me that Rockstar didn't receive the proper rating from the ESRB...

Then come and talk to me. Until then, dry your tears and consider this particular circle jerk over.

 

[DrLazy]

Come on, Mortal Kombat and Doom? That type of violence is almost comedic, it's completly different.

Manhunt disgusts me. Really that game is one of a kind. Mortal Kombat, Doom, and GTA are in a different league-- they're campy and over the top. Its like comparing ConAir or Kill Bill to Silence of the Lambs. YOU are the serial killer, rewarded for more gruesome kills. That stuff still bothers me, and as long as kids continue to buy games with Mature rating at Best Buy and the like without much problem, the situation will only grow worse.