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[Killjoy-NL]

Marathon could be the next Concord, I don't think that's toxic negativity, just objective truth.

No idea, I don't think "toxicity" (in this context) even exists.

It's just opinions.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Could, sure. Theoretically a lot of things can happen.

For all we know Marathon could bomb as hard as Concord.
It could also sell like hotcakes, like Helldivers 2.

That's the point, right.

if it bombs, Bungie could get axed altogether or try Destiny 3 in order to save themselves.

if it's a massive success, they will need a bigger team to crank content.

in both cases only one game remains.

But comparing it to Concord isn't?

it's not about the comparison. It is about the PR implication for Bungie and Sony.

Anyone mentioning Concord could be seen as such, I suppose.

But I wasn't the one who was talking about toxicity, that was you.

Most people are completely irrational and then accuse anyone who doesn't agree as "defenders" (which often is projection of their own mentality).

this is you describing what toxic negativity is. i just said that toxic positivity is also a thing. where is one, there is the other.

Good thing you balanced out his tweet by comparing this to Concord again.

did i? i pointed out how the "Toxic Positivity", which is not necessarily about concord (but it was brought out because of it, thanks to Colin's leak) But the idea of the disconnect between devs/publishers and their audience.

If Bungie, which had (or still has?) a massive ego, really thinks their name alone guarantees success, they deserve to fail. After getting their asses handed to them by Sony, they should be acting like a hungry dev trying to prove themselves and not like a studio that takes its audience for granted and assumes people will eat up whatever they put out

And that's more my angle. Imagine the insult of people comparing your work ( which you think is like the second coming of Christ) to one of the most ridiculed, mocked, and downright embarrassing releases in recent history. Ouch, that has to hurt.

Get humbled Bungie

 

[AMSCD]

What the hell was this? The art style is so unappealing

 

[basement dweller]

This game looks like utter shit. What happened?

 

[sendit]

This game looks like utter shit. What happened?

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Yup. Still have absolutely zero interest. Never thought I'd see a day I'd say that about a Bungie game.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

That's the point, right.

if it bombs, Bungie could get axed altogether or try Destiny 3 in order to save themselves.

if it's a massive success, they will need a bigger team to crank content.

in both cases only one game remains.

How so? The largest part of Bungie is still working on Destiny.

They have about 850 employees? I've seen someone mention that 300 are working on Marathon.
Seems like they can run both games.

And if Marathon fails, that's on them.

it's not about the comparison. It is about the PR implication for Bungie and Sony.

I doubt most people are as invested as people on here are.

this is you describing what toxic negativity is. i just said that toxic positivity is also a thing. where is one, there is the other.

I know what toxtic negativity is, same as toxic positivity.

I don't look at things that way. To me there's just opinions I may or may not agree with.
And I call things how I see it.

did i? i pointed out how the "Toxic Positivity", which is not necessarily about concord (but it was brought out because of it, thanks to Colin's leak) But the idea of the disconnect between devs/publishers and their audience.

If Bungie, which had (or still has?) a massive ego, really thinks their name alone guarantees success, they deserve to fail. After getting their asses handed to them by Sony, they should be acting like a hungry dev trying to prove themselves and not like a studio that takes its audience for granted and assumes people will eat up whatever they put out

Who says Bungie thinks Marathon will be a guaranteed success?
Afaik there is no indication that points to this.

This part is one big assumption.

And that's more my angle. Imagine the insult of people comparing your work ( which you think is like the second coming of Christ) to one of the most ridiculed, mocked, and downright embarrassing releases in recent history. Ouch, that has to hurt.

Get humbled Bungie

Who cares if Bungie feels insulted? They need to deliver a good game and they have a lot to proof, given how they completely mishandled the entire Destiny project.

Activision got out of the contract for a reason, same as Sony reportedly taking over control.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

How so? The largest part of Bungie is still working on Destiny.

They have about 850 employees? I've seen someone mention that 300 are working on Marathon.
Seems like they can run both games.

And if Marathon fails, that's on them.

I doubt most people are as invested as people on here are.

I know what toxtic negativity is, same as toxic positivity.

I don't look at things that way. To me there's just opinions I may or may not agree with.
And I call things how I see it.

Who says Bungie thinks Marathon will be a guaranteed success?
Afaik there is no indication that points to this.

This part is one big assumption.

Who cares if Bungie feels insulted? They need to deliver a good game and they have a lot to proof, given how they completely mishandled the entire Destintly project.

Bungie's/Sony's PR and marketing teams. as well as the useless community managers.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

"Most of the people were critical of..."

Also, as I said, that's in large part the reason Sony reportedly took control over Bungie.
Management always was their problem. That's what I was referring to in my previous post.

In any case, it's seems most people there aren't in line with upper management, so those assumptions of yours are just yours.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

"Most of the people were critical of..."

Also, as I said, that's in large part the reason Sony reportedly took control over Bungie.
Management always was their problem. That's what I was referring to in my previous post.

In any case, it's seems most people there aren't in line with upper management, so those assumptions of yours are just yours.

did you watch the live stream?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

did you watch the live stream?

Of Marathon?

Yes. Why?

 

[GymWolf]

Game looks like shit, ngl.

70 dollars for this sound rough as hell.

 

[BlackTron]

Graphics aren't everything but man it really does look simply bad.

I'm not against the general theory behind the art style with a shaded popping color neon look. But the entire screen looks like the neon highlight and the character designs are abhorrent. The game looks like a wall of glitching shit after removing Tron cartridge from a running simulation.

FPS games are a dime a dozen. Designing a unique game that is fun to play should be way harder than making one that isn't off-putting to even look at. Starting with an uphill battle, don't mess the easiest part.

It suffers from a similar disconnect between real gamers and decision makers as Concord without being the same game.

 

[Xtib81]

Honestly, I think it looks awful. I'd be very surprised If it were a hit, but who knows. To think that these are the guys who gave advice to ND on Tlou online lol.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Of Marathon?

Yes. Why?

Style over substance and quite pretentious, especially when the game is at odds with what what they are trying to hype up. That CGI short is them smelling their own farts. (they have a history of doing that)

then in one of the the previews it was mentioned that they don't even have the narrative written.

they also mentioned that they want to build this game with the community (code for: this shit is ways off) while asking a premium price?

Marathon was not ready to be shown in this way. The Bungie name and "prestige" (from the creators of halo and destiny ) didn't save them form skepticism.

From a PR perspective, this weekend has been lackluster at best and low-key panic-inducing at worst.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Style over substance and quite pretentious, especially when the game is at odds with what what they are trying to hype up. That CGI short is them smelling their own farts. (they have a history of doing that)

What have you been watching? They showed a lot of gameplay and discussed various heroes/playstyles and ideas they're implementing in the game.

Now, if the style is off-putting, I can understand that. It's not my style of choice either.

then in one of the the previews it was mentioned that they don't even have the narrative written.

It's not a story-driven game, so that kind of makes sense.
It's a PvPvE extraction shooter, it's competitive mp. A narrative isn't really necessary.

they also mentioned that they want to build this game with the community (code for: this shit is ways off) while asking a premium price?

Building a game with the community is part of live-services in general.
But it's also PR, so there's that.

"Premium price" has been taken out of context and doesn't mean a €80 game.
Most likely ~€40.

Marathon was not ready to be shown in this way. The Bungie name and "prestige" (from the creators of halo and destiny ) didn't save them form skepticism.

From a PR perspective, this weekend has been lackluster at best and low-key panic-inducing at worst.

If that's your takeaway, I'm not going to argue about it.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

What have you been watching? They showed a lot of gameplay and discussed various heroes/playstyles and ideas they're implementing in the game.

show don't tell.

Now, if the style is off-putting, I can understand that. It's not my style of choice either.

the art direction is fine, is the implementation in they game that doesn't live up to what theyvshow. (the key art, and cgi trailers)

It's not a story-driven game, so that kind of makes sense.
It's a PvPvE extraction shooter, it's competitive mp. A narrative isn't really necessary.

the narrative is the connecting tissue that justifies what and how you do things in they game

Building a game with the community is part of live-services in general.
But it's also PR, so there's that.

"Premium price" has been taken out of context and doesn't mean a €80 game.
Most likely ~€40.

ot will depend in how unfinished the game will release

If that's your takeaway, I'm not going to argue about it.

is not really relevant what my takeaway is, you can look it up for yourself.

You already said that GAF is an echo chamber. Well, what about Twitter or YouTube? It's pretty easy to assess the overall reception

 

[Shubh_C63]

Bungie can definitely support two games, especially when they are not going to over deliver on any of them.

Destiny will get smaller expansions. And player count will probably remain the same low as it is now.

Marathon will be below Destiny, and Bungie takes their sweet time drip feeding content till the failure point and only then they push the actual V1 version of things.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You already said that GAF is an echo chamber. Well, what about Twitter or YouTube? It's pretty easy to assess the overall reception

From what I'm seeing, reception is pretty split. Slightly skewing towards negativity, but not significantly.

Mostly complaints about the visuals.

And it makes sense, as Extraction shooters aren't exactly mainstream, especially not on consoles where there practically aren't any, except for Hunt Showdown (which is niche on PS5).

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

From what I'm seeing, reception is pretty split. Slightly skewing towards negativity, but not significantly.

Mostly complaints about the visuals.

there you go.

this PR/Marketing cycle didn't delivery the goods.

Bungie/Sony should be kind of worried.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

there you go.

this PR/Marketing cycle didn't delivery the goods.

Bungie/Sony should be kind of worried.

I edited my post.

And as for if they should worry, they should worry if there is a strong negative response after a future open beta.

Rn it's way too early to tell, as nobody played it yet.
And afaik nobody who played the alpha was negative about the gunplay/gameplay itself.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Their cinematic / story (whatever it is) trailer was a mess. Felt like Hyenas, Fairgame$ or whatever.

Visuals are impressive still - at least in style.

 

[mdkirby]

These mfers struck gold with Destiny 2 and now think they are GAAS experts, going as far as convincing Sony and ND that Factions 2 wouldnt work.

And this is what they are cooking? Looks so cheap

Bungie and Sony are set for a rude awakening

It was my understanding that it was actually good, but cancelled more for the realisation that it was too big a job to keep it running, ie finishing and releasing and maintaining it would mean they couldn't do other stuff. That realisation of course could have come after consultations with bungie. Such wasted time and opportunity regardless tho.

 

[Hudo]

If they ever add a single player campaign, I will check it out.

 

[BlackTron]

I edited my post.

And as for if they should worry, they should worry if there is a strong negative response after a future open beta.

Rn it's way too early to tell, as nobody played it yet.
And afaik nobody who played the alpha was negative about the gunplay/gameplay itself.

It's smarter to start worrying about your game sucking before people start playing it.

Once they start, you begin worrying whether you can ever save it at all.

I'd be worrying about preventing that from day one of development. With a 50% negative reaction I start popping pills.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

It's smarter to start worrying about your game sucking before people start playing it.

Once they start, you begin worrying whether you can ever save it at all.

I'd be worrying about preventing that from day one of development. With a 50% negative reaction I start popping pills.

Like I said, afaik, none of the people who played the alpha said the game sucks.

Gameplay appears to be very solid.

 

[midnightAI]

I edited my post.

And as for if they should worry, they should worry if there is a strong negative response after a future open beta.

Rn it's way too early to tell, as nobody played it yet.
And afaik nobody who played the alpha was negative about the gunplay/gameplay itself.

Exactly, people who have played it are very excited

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I edited my post.

And as for if they should worry, they should worry if there is a strong negative response after a future open beta.

Rn it's way too early to tell, as nobody played it yet.
And afaik nobody who played the alpha was negative about the gunplay/gameplay itself.

this game has been played extensively already

they don't need a strong negative response. (which they had around 2023,, before the massive layoffs. if i have my time line correct) the current reception is that the game is MID a lot of uncertainty


those two aspects (gunplay and gameplay) should be a given for Bungie. the issue is the live game around them.


context matter:
People are forgetting that Sony bought Bungie for their so called "GaaS Expertise" they consulted on Concord and that ended up being rejected by the market. Concord's falirue reflects directly on Bungie.

Marathon already had a massive one year delay.

Im gonna say the quiet part out loud:

I think Sony is pushing Bungie (directly or indirectly by using deadlines) to put marathon in the hands of players ASAP to figure out if they will inject more money into it or just outright kill it. Sony is not thrilled to have a new Concord level of falirue, which given the Bungie name attached to it, expectations are orders of magnitude higher than they were for Concord

 

[Killjoy-NL]

this game has been played extensively already

they don't need a strong negative response. (which they had around 2023,, before the massive layoffs. if i have my time line correct) the current reception is that the game is MID a lot of uncertainty

I'm pretty sure it's you who made the conclusion that it's MID.

From what I've seen out of all the uploads from people who played it, most reserve their judgement and say the core is good, but there are still things to work out.
Which makes sense.

Game could be MID after all though, but rn it's still speculation for most.

those two aspects (gunplay and gameplay) should be a given for Bungie. the issue is the live game around them.

Destiny 1 was an absolute disaster at launch and the alpha created a massive shitshow after people discovered it wasn't anywhere near what Bungie promised.
And at release, D1 was very basic and barebones.

It was the gunplay and gameplay loop that got people addicted.
That's probably the "Bungie Magic" that was mentioned.

But, the game could go either way ofcourse. Knowing Bungie, they are perfectly capable of fucking things up big time.

context matter:
People are forgetting that Sony bought Bungie for their so called "GaaS Expertise" they consulted on Concord and that ended up being rejected by the market. Concord's falirue reflects directly on Bungie.

Marathon already had a massive one year delay.

Yes, because Bungie upper management were a bunch of monkeys. That was wellknown and Sony knew too. Everybody knew.

Im gonna say the quiet part out loud:

I think Sony is pushing Bungie (directly or indirectly by using deadlines) to put marathon in the hands of players ASAP to figure out if they will inject more money into it or just outright kill it. Sony is not thrilled to have a new Concord level of falirue, which given the Bungie name attached to it, expectations are orders of magnitude higher than they were for Concord

Could be. But that too is speculation.

Which is fine, because I just want a game that is fun to play.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

The game has been in dev for god knows how many years and it will only launch with 3 maps at launch.

WTF have Bungie been doing in all this time?

 

[Darchaos]

And here is a game from the up and coming comapny Bungie! Will no one say, this is a act of desperation to step out from the destiny shoes from people that took over Destiny from the people who made it what it was.

This is tired old people trying to be something again. They wont make it though.

 

[Nankatsu]

So far not interested in the slightest.

Jumping ship from Destiny to this? I can't even begin to understand that decision.

Marathon has an interesting art direction but that's it for me. Everything else I would take Destiny 3 any day.

 

[Hideous Snake]

The game has been in dev for god knows how many years and it will only launch with 3 maps at launch.

WTF have Bungie been doing in all this time?

3 maps at launch is actually magnificent for an extraction shooter. Been playing Hunt for almost 7 years now and we only have FOUR maps.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

3 maps at launch is actually magnificent for an extraction shooter. Been playing Hunt for almost 7 years now and we only have FOUR maps.

What I'd like o know, is that they mentioned that new maps can be unlocked. I wonder how that works?

Same as how it's been mentioned that maps can completely change over the course of a season based on community efforts.

Curious to learn more about this.

 

[Black_Stride]

No proximity chat.




This gets better and better.

 

[CartesianMan]

Not a fan of the art direction. They'd need some very solid gameplay arguments to get me interested. If you removed the name Bungie, I'd have zero interest in this game — and that says a lot.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Exactly, people who have played it are very excited

Sadly those guys who are invited out to play test these games are ALMOST always super excited because they want to be invited to the next event

Lets see what they are playing even a week or two after launch

No proximity chat.




This gets better and better.

Part of games like this is in fact being able to be obnoxious to people, its part of the fun to me

But then again I grew up in a time when you could say anything to me and I would mostly laugh it off

This current generation of gamers cry and report you if you say anything bad about them

 

[Luipadre]

Sadly those guys who are invited out to play test these games are ALMOST always super excited because they want to be invited to the next event

Lets see what they are playing even a week or two after launch


Part of games like this is in fact being able to be obnoxious to people, its part of the fun to me

But then again I grew up in a time when you could say anything to me and I would mostly laugh it off

This current generation of gamers cry and report you if you say anything bad about them

Pussies. Proxy chat is where the fun is. All those extraction streamers will be back to EFT after 2 weeks. Marathon looks like another content light release and thats simply not enough today, but looks like devs still havent figured this out after all those fails. Nobody will be there in 6 months or after a year for more content.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

No proximity-chat is just dumb. Should be standard in any PvP game, imo.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Pussies. Proxy chat is where the fun is. All those extraction streamers will be back to EFT after 2 weeks. Marathon looks like another content light release and thats simply not enough today, but looks like devs still havent figured this out after all those fails. Nobody will be there in 6 months or after a year for more content.

I love proximity chat just give me an option to mute individuals because I don't want to listen to some preteen who thinks he is the next rap God practicing his craft at max volume in the lobbies all the time.

I blame battlepasses for the content light releases as they want to sell you all this stuff for extra money that should be included at launch

 

[MMaRsu]

Imagine making an extraction shooter without proximity voicechat

 

[Black_Stride]

Part of games like this is in fact being able to be obnoxious to people, its part of the fun to me

But then again I grew up in a time when you could say anything to me and I would mostly laugh it off

This current generation of gamers cry and report you if you say anything bad about them

Prox chat also has the advantage of making it easy to form inter party alliances.
Imagine knowing you and another player from another party a clearly under equipped vs another player (this will happen its an extraction game).
You could relatively easy prox chat and tell him where strong players are, we split the loot after we get em......whether the alliance works or not is another matter.

Ive had many situations where prox chat with a player has led to some fun outcomes, sometimes ieve even just begged a better player to not destroy me and hes helped me out for a while or dropped loot to get me going.


Some of the most fun you can have in Sea of Thieves is prox chatting when you meet a player who would be easy pickings and they just grovel with you and you cant help but be on their side.

Youve probably made their whole day.

You end up asking yourself......am I the Hero?
Then of course you could also enjoy the groveling then kill them anyway and ask yourself.....am I the Villain?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I love proxy chat in games, but if you pay attention to what it works in they're always slower paced games with big safe areas.

Sea of Thieves, Rust, Escape from Tarkov.

Marathon is way too fast paced for compelling proxy chat. It would clearly devolve into quick insults before you or your enemy runs to the next sound. That's not going to be very interesting.

ARC Raiders on the other hand...

 

[Cakeboxer]

Exactly, people who have played it are very excited

That's not a benchmark. Those guys are usually handpicked and if they write something overly negative it was probably their last invite. Open beta would tell the truth.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

I fucking hate prox chat in DMZ, People begging to team up to get an advantage, yuck!

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Prox chat also has the advantage of making it easy to form inter party alliances.
Imagine knowing you and another player from another party a clearly under equipped vs another player (this will happen its an extraction game).
You could relatively easy prox chat and tell him where strong players are, we split the loot after we get em......whether the alliance works or not is another matter.

Ive had many situations where prox chat with a player has led to some fun outcomes, sometimes ieve even just begged a better player to not destroy me and hes helped me out for a while or dropped loot to get me going.


Some of the most fun you can have in Sea of Thieves is prox chatting when you meet a player who would be easy pickings and they just grovel with you and you cant help but be on their side.

Youve probably made their whole day.

You end up asking yourself......am I the Hero?
Then of course you could also enjoy the groveling then kill them anyway and ask yourself.....am I the Villain?

I have heard a lot of funny stuff over prox chat and love the interaction with other players

But oh no the insults will offend the thin skinned

 

[midnightAI]

Sadly those guys who are invited out to play test these games are ALMOST always super excited because they want to be invited to the next event

Lets see what they are playing even a week or two after launch

That's not a benchmark. Those guys are usually handpicked and if they write something overly negative it was probably their last invite. Open beta would tell the truth.

Still, they have still played it, which is more than can be said about (all?) those hating on it.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

Exactly, people who have played it are very excited

TTK looks too quick IMO.

I've been playing Space Marine 2 and it's so refreshing to play a game where its not a case of 'whoever shoots first wins'.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I have heard a lot of funny stuff over prox chat and love the interaction with other players

But oh no the insults will offend the thin skinned

Tbf the lack of proximity-chat is making Bungie look even worse than Epstein and Diddy.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Still, they have still played it, which is more than can be said about (all?) those hating on it.

If they are biased it means absolutely nothing. We will see how the game really is once the general public can play it.