Marvel Vs. Capcom: Infinite Characters and Stages Roster Discussion Thread

Neoxon said:
Which would be a disappointment given that the veterans so far are near carbon copies of their UMvC3 selves (with a new move or two thrown in).
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Veteran movesets in general don't change much going from any game in the franchise to another. That's part of what establishes them in the franchise, after all.

I dig the optimism in this thread, I really do, but I can't help but feel many people in this thread are in for a rude awakening when it comes to inclusions, especially with all this talk of "givens" and the influence of Marvel Comics specifically in the whole selection process.
 
enzo_gt said:
Veteran movesets in general don't change much going from any game in the franchise to another. That's part of what establishes them in the franchise, after all.

I dig the optimism in this thread, I really do, but I can't help but feel many people in this thread are in for a rude awakening when it comes to inclusions, especially with all this talk of "givens" and the influence of Marvel Comics specifically in the whole selection process.
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I mean, the likes of Star-Lord, Ms. Marvel, & Black Panther aren't exactly characters that Marvel would pass up (you could make an argument for Star-Lord, but not the other two).
 
enzo_gt said:
Veteran movesets in general don't change much going from any game in the franchise to another. That's part of what establishes them in the franchise, after all.
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That's not what he's saying. The returning characters we've seen have the exact same animation data as in MvC3 -- it's not just the moves themselves. Ryu has a Hadoken, Shoryuken, and so on in both SFIV and SFV, but all of those attacks were reanimated from scratch for SFV. That's not the case here. MvC3 Ryu and MvCI Ryu use the same animations. That saves a lot of time and resources.
 
Ryce said:
That's not what he's saying. The returning characters we've seen have the exact same animation data as in MvC3 -- it's not just the moves themselves. Ryu has a Hadoken, Shoryuken, and so on in both SFIV and SFV, but all of those attacks were reanimated from scratch for SFV. That's not the case here. MvC3 Ryu and MvCI Ryu use the same animations. That saves a lot of time and resources.
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Exactly, which is why having a roster that's equal (or even less than) Vanilla MvC3 would be disappointing considering that they used the exact same animations for the veterans as (U)MvC3.

Weiss said:
Is that lazy or smart? I can't tell.
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Lazy if they still give us a smaller roster, smart if they used the saved time to get us more newcomers.
 
They're also spending time on a story mode which is gonna eat into the base game playable/balanced roster. We could easily see a MK9/X/SF5 scenario where there are story mode only playable characters who aren't balanced for multiplayer but released later as dlc.

Anyone expecting 40> is setting themselves up for disappointment.
 
BassForever said:
They're also spending time on a story mode which is gonna eat into the base game playable/balanced roster. We could easily see a MK9/X/SF5 scenario where there are story mode only playable characters who aren't balanced for multiplayer but released later as dlc.

Anyone expecting 40> is setting themselves up for disappointment.
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The resources that go into the game's story mode will be almost entirely separate from core gameplay and character development... as long as Capcom is managing their time well. It wouldn't drastically impact the number of characters who can feasibly be created and balanced, especially if many are reusing animation data from older games.
 
Is there a chance that we might get story DLC? The promise of story content is why I'm planning to get this on day one, rather than waiting for a sale or something like I did with MVC3. Sorry if I might sound out of the loop.
 
Star-Lord is boring as fuck anyways

His super would literally be:
Dance Super
Guardians Help Me Super
Launch Into Space, Put Mask On You So You Survive Super
 
Ryce said:
That's not what he's saying. The returning characters we've seen have the exact same animation data as in MvC3 -- it's not just the moves themselves. Ryu has a Hadoken, Shoryuken, and so on in both SFIV and SFV, but all of those attacks were reanimated from scratch for SFV. That's not the case here. MvC3 Ryu and MvCI Ryu use the same animations. That saves a lot of time and resources.
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To be fair, reusing assets is an MVC tradition.
 
He's got the jetboots too which can be used for dash attacks.

Being honest, I think between him and Captain Marvel, Nova's getting the boot.
 
Icolin said:
Is there a chance that we might get story DLC? The promise of story content is why I'm planning to get this on day one, rather than waiting for a sale or something like I did with MVC3. Sorry if I might sound out of the loop.
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They said that story content is a pretty big priority for them and it seems like they will be releasing it day 1.

But Capcpcom says a lot of things so who knows.


36 characters for a 2v2 fighter is more than acceptable especially for day 1.
 
I'm guessing 32 characters, as a realistic expectation. I hope I'm wrong and it's 4-6 more.

IntelliHeath said:
Yes, but the numbers usually don't get decided until like few months before they are finishing up with the development.
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What makes you say that? Do we have any evidence this is the case? I really don't think they just leave it open-ended like that, but rather, they have to decide on a number to scope out the work and plan/schedule their resources accordingly, especially if developing a character takes a long time. Even more so if they're part of a story mode. If you mean that some might get cut, then I could see that, but only after they find they can't meet their goal.
 
2n2 said:
I'm guessing 32 characters, as a realistic expectation. I hope I'm wrong and it's 4-6 more.



What makes you say that? Do we have any evidence this is the case? I really don't think they just leave it open-ended like that, but rather, they have to decide on a number to scope out the work and plan/schedule their resources accordingly, especially if developing a character takes a long time. Even more so if they're part of a story mode. If you mean that some might get cut, then I could see that, but only after they find they can't meet their goal.
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I mean they likely have a plan, but often the final roster ends up having a few of those characters cut for time or last minute quick characters added. We've seen this with both mvc3/umvc3 and all 4 smash games and I assume its true for many other fighting series.

I would not be surprised if after the base roster of mvci is officially unveiled we'll find out some of the last characters added were last second mvc3 vets or that a newcomer or two was cut for time (likely to be included in the first wave of dlc).
 
Platy said:
I'd be just fine with 62 characters xD

But it will probably have 30 TOPS
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But again, considering all of the reused animations, just 30 at launch would be a massive disappointment. Might as well redo the animations from scratch in that case.
 
Neoxon said:
But again, considering all of the reused animations, just 30 at launch would be a massive disappointment. Might as well redo the animations from scratch in that case.
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I mean they could intentionally be recycling assets for a good chunk of the veterans so they can spend more time making the story mode a big deal. This very well could turn into a Brawl situation where once the dust settles people are left frustrated that so much dev time was wasted on the story mode and it impacted the final base roster.
 
BassForever said:
I mean they could intentionally be recycling assets for a good chunk of the veterans so they can spend more time making the story mode a big deal. This very well could turn into a Brawl situation where once the dust settles people are left frustrated that so much dev time was wasted on the story mode and it impacted the final base roster.
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That's very plausible. I actually could see it happening since Mega Man X apparently look like it's in beta stage and the development team might have less than 11 months to work on their contents for MVCI, unless they are willing to delay the game into 2018.
 
BassForever said:
I mean they could intentionally be recycling assets for a good chunk of the veterans so they can spend more time making the story mode a big deal. This very well could turn into a Brawl situation where once the dust settles people are left frustrated that so much dev time was wasted on the story mode and it impacted the final base roster.
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Again, not really how this works... a story mode like SFV had would add additional cost, but the labor required would not really impact development of the character roster.

The people designing, testing, and balancing playable characters, and making them work within the game's engine, are not really impacted by a story mode. It DOES add more work for the animators, but the increased scope of doing a story mode almost necessitates a larger team working on graphical assets and animations anyway, or even a small secondary team who specifically animate for the story mode cutscenes. So not doing a story mode would likely have just meant fewer animators working on the game.

Other than animation work (addressed previously), there's not a lot of technical work that goes into that kind of story mode, because it's just a series of cutscenes broken up by fights. It isn't necessarily cheap or easy, but that's because it requires significantly more scenario writing, more money and time spent on VAs, etc. And I promise you, the dude working out hitboxes or tweaking damage values on Dante's moveset isn't the same guy scribbling out storyboards for the first scene of Iron Man's chapter.

If anything ends up limiting the size of the roster, it's the relatively short development time. Capcom seems to want to churn this baby out pronto while still being more feature complete than SFV, though they seem far less constrained by their budget (maybe thanks to Marvel's involvement).
 
I'd personally prefer no story mode and a big roster. Typically, separate teams would be working on different parts of a game, so the work on one doesn't consume time on the other. However, I doubt Capcom's MvCi team is big enough--so likely time spent on the story is time that could be spent on more characters.
 
J-Tier said:
I'd personally prefer no story mode and a big roster. Typically, separate teams would be working on different parts of a game, so the work on one doesn't consume time on the other. However, I doubt Capcom's MvCi team is big enough--so likely time spent on the story is time that could be spent on more characters.
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Bruh... just got done addressing this, for real.

"I promise you, the dude working out hitboxes or tweaking damage values on Dante's moveset isn't the same guy scribbling out storyboards for the first scene of Iron Man's chapter."

It costs more money, it doesn't take more time. And if there wasn't a story mode, it wouldn't free up artists to double up on moveset animations, Capcom just wouldn't have put as many people on the job.
 
DerekOfTheDykes said:
Bruh... just got done addressing this, for real.
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This isn't some big budget Western AAA game that bleeds money. The animators who animate the scenes in the story will be working on animating cinematic attacks, intros, etc. There'll be a lot of crossover in roles with time and budget constraints.
 
Dahbomb said:
They said that story content is a pretty big priority for them and it seems like they will be releasing it day 1.

But Capcpcom says a lot of things so who knows.


36 characters for a 2v2 fighter is more than acceptable especially for day 1.
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TVC only had like 27 and felt fine. 36 should be very accomodating and enjoyable for certain.
 
In other news, Ms. Marvel's now the leader of the Champions (think Marvel's Teen Titans). The role of leader was assumed by many to be Teen Cyclops, hence why some are surprised. Also,
Gwenpool's joining the team next issue.

3E675D0.png


Yet another reason for her to be included in MvCI.
 
J-Tier said:
This isn't some big budget Western AAA game that bleeds money. The animators who animate the scenes in the story will be working on animating cinematic attacks, intros, etc. There'll be a lot of crossover in roles with time and budget constraints.
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Staffing appropriately for the expected workload isn't a "bloated western AAA" thing. If the original concept for the game includes a story mode before you begin production, you are going to hire more people to do animation than you would if you never planned for it in the first place. The scope of the project is larger than it would have been without that feature, so your team is shaped accordingly.

Before there even is a team, there's a number of man hours Capcom expects it to take to achieve everything in the Design Document. If story mode isn't in the design document, that means less labor, which means a smaller group of animators. You don't start with a number of animators and hope they can get all the work done in an arbitrary amount of time.

Again, if anything holds back the roster, it will be the relatively short development cycle. The bigger the roster gets in a traditional fighter, the more work it takes per character to balance everything out because the number of matchups in the game increases tremendously. And from what we can tell based on the early state of the game at reveal, the game isn't spending that long in the oven, which makes a 30+ character roster super impressive even if they ARE just pulling animation data / hitboxes / damage values from UMvC and using that as a base rather than starting from scratch.

Weiss said:
Is it possible the Story Mode will be comic panels like SF5?
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IIRC the story mode was described as cinematic, so it'll likely be in-engine cutscenes like SFV and the Netherrealm fighters.

But if the game has an Arcade mode, I would expect those little Arcade endings to be illustrated panels like we usually see in Capcom fighters.
 
Lol, I don't need that explained to me--I quite understand how it works. I'm just being cynical about the resources that an in-house Capcom team has. SFV made it pretty clear that sacrifices were made for one reason or another.
 
J-Tier said:
Lol, I don't need that explained to me--I quite understand how it works. I'm just being cynical about the resources that an in-house Capcom team has. SFV made it pretty clear that sacrifices were made for one reason or another.
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Man, I couldn't even TELL you what went wrong with that game. That game makes me feel like Kronk studying a map trying to figure out how Yzma and I beat Kuzco to the castle. SFV must have been fucked from the pitch on, it's the only thing that makes sense.

The overall amount of work it takes to do something as simple as an Arcade mode is negligible in the grand scheme of things. I can only assume that Capcom just decided not to work on features under the assumption that they weren't important for launch.

I'll totally buy if you wanna be cynical and assume Capcom will blunder up. There isn't really a good response against "yeah but it's Capcom"... because yeah, it's Capcom. I've just been dealing with the silly notion that there's some direct link between story mode and character roster since before Brawl was released, and it's a horribly misinformed mindset that persists to this day.
 
DerekOfTheDykes said:
I'll totally buy if you wanna be cynical and assume Capcom will blunder up. There isn't really a good response against "yeah but it's Capcom"... because yeah, it's Capcom. I've just been dealing with the silly notion that there's some direct link between story mode and character roster since before Brawl was released, and it's a horribly misinformed mindset that persists to this day.
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I get it. It's a complaint that annoys you as much as the "wasted spot" complaint annoys me.

I'm just itching for new news.
 
J-Tier said:
I get it. It's a complaint that annoys you as much as the "wasted spot" complaint annoys me.

I'm just itching for new news.
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Feel you fam, "wasted slot" rhetoric usually makes me want to fling my tablet across the newsroom.

If we don't get some news soon we're gonna start eating each other alive. The hunger is real. We need to eat.
 
DerekOfTheDykes said:
Man, I couldn't even TELL you what went wrong with that game. That game makes me feel like Kronk studying a map trying to figure out how Yzma and I beat Kuzco to the castle. SFV must have been fucked from the pitch on, it's the only thing that makes sense.

The overall amount of work it takes to do something as simple as an Arcade mode is negligible in the grand scheme of things. I can only assume that Capcom just decided not to work on features under the assumption that they weren't important for launch.

I'll totally buy if you wanna be cynical and assume Capcom will blunder up. There isn't really a good response against "yeah but it's Capcom"... because yeah, it's Capcom. I've just been dealing with the silly notion that there's some direct link between story mode and character roster since before Brawl was released, and it's a horribly misinformed mindset that persists to this day.
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SFV's issues were really execution for most of the stuff outside of gameplay, really. The idea was fundamentally sound.

Speaking of, do you guys want your CFN ID & Fight Money to carry over (which would really be beneficial for PS4 & PC players)?
 
Neoxon said:
Speaking of, do you guys want your CFN ID & Fight Money to carry over (which would really be beneficial for PS4 & PC players)?
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Hmm. I guess it OUGHT to, to help justify the existence of CFN (kinda silly if it is only useful for SFV). I just wish Fight Money could be used on all dlc content.
 
DerekOfTheDykes said:
Hmm. I guess it OUGHT to, to help justify the existence of CFN (kinda silly if it is only useful for SFV). I just wish Fight Money could be used on all dlc content.
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To be fair, Capcom has to make money on DLC somehow. Can't do that if you can earn everything with in-game currency. My only real gripe is the fact that said premium costumes are so expensive (& that they only just recently started to do costume packs).
 
Neoxon said:
SFV actually has both a Cinematic Story as well as comic-esque Character Stories. While the reveal mentioned a cinematic story, the game could have both.
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And neither are worth a damn. The General Story is rushed, and honestly forgets what it's doing about halfway through.
 
Doctrine Dark said:
I don't want Fight Money in Infinite. That can stay in SFV.
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Neoxon said:
Why not, you worried about alternate costume prices being expensive to compensate?
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That's exactly my concern, and it's a much bigger one in this game where the potential for decent recognizable/fan-favorite costumes is much greater. (more so on the Marvel side)

The Fight Money system is awful if you have any interest in buying costumes. I hope to god they keep it far, far away from this game and just keep DLC character and costumes pricing in line with most games before SFV.

Neoxon said:
To be fair, Capcom has to make money on DLC somehow. Can't do that if you can earn everything with in-game currency. My only real gripe is the fact that said premium costumes are so expensive (& that they only just recently started to do costume packs).
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Sure, but how do we know how much they need to charge? How do we know they're not charging excessive amounts because they can?
Also, if you buy a season pass, you're actually supporting the game, yet are still stuck having to use real money for the expensive costumes. The system almost rewards those who want to keep playing and getting free characters, but not spending any money to actually support the game financially. It sounds like there are a lot of those earning characters for free, but not buying any costumes because of the price. I wonder if that hurts Capcom more than helps them.

Also, I'm not entirely sure Marvel would sign off on a system that lets you get DLC characters for free.
 
Well it was bound to happen. Thanks to this last page I'm starting to get worried the game won't be that good, which is a real pisser for me since I'm actually super excited about stuff like 2v2, Infinite Stones and X being in.

To be fair I was genuinely convinced Lord Raptor and Nina were going to be in, so I kinda had it coming.
 
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