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[KSweeley]

Maryland has put together an incentive package for Amazon that is reported to be record breaking for Maryland: http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-amazon-ceremony-20171018-story.html

To lure Amazon's new headquarters and its promised 50,000 jobs to the state, Maryland has prepared an incentive package measured in the billions of dollars for the online retail giant.

The massive collection of tax breaks and transportation projects will be spread out over at least 10 years, according to three people familiar with the state's plans.

The state's contribution to the incentive package will be enhanced by whatever additional breaks offered by the handful of local jurisdictions competing for the project, the sources said.

”I can tell you that the state has never put together an incentive package like this before," Gov. Larry Hogan said Wednesday in Annapolis. ”It's going to be mind-boggling for the folks at Amazon."

Hogan's spokesman Doug Mayer declined to confirm any details about the state's offer. He said Maryland's offer to Amazon will be ”the largest in state history by a long shot."

”We're going to throw everything we have at them," said Warren Deschenaux, executive director of the Maryland Department of Legislative Services, which advises state lawmakers. ”We have a variety of magnificent incentives to offer."

The proposal for Amazon consists primarily of tax breaks for the company and relies on some of the state's existing incentives for business. But the package also requires the General Assembly to pass new laws in order for Amazon to qualify for others tax breaks.

In addition, the state is proposing to pay for transportation improvements at all of the sites in Maryland offered for the sprawling new 100-acre campus Amazon wants to build. The cost of those transportation projects varies by location.

Amazon has promised to invest $5 billion in its new home, providing an instant economic boon to wherever the company lands.

 

[Illithid Dude]

Though I obviously would like Amazon to come to my hometown of LA, I would be just as happy to see Amazon revitalize a long struggling city. Baltimore would be a great choice.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Please let us pay you to gentrify the fuck out of a couple of neighbourhoods thanks

Holy shit I hope they don't come to Toronto

 

[x24hrs2livex]

As a Baltimore resident, I am really hoping Amazon chooses us. Would be great for a struggling city such as Baltimore.

 

[hwalker84]

Come to Pittsburgh.

 

[entremet]

Though I obviously would like Amazon to come to my hometown of LA, I would be just as happy to see Amazon revitalize a long struggling city. Baltimore would be a great choice.

Why LA? They already have a WC location. An EC location would be optimal as it gives them access to the Northeast Corridor, which is a massive economy and has better transit infrastructure than the WC.

 

[Izayoi]

Though I obviously would like Amazon to come to my hometown of LA, I would be just as happy to see Amazon revitalize a long struggling city. Baltimore would be a great choice.

If by "revitalize" you mean "gentrify into oblivion," then sure.

Expect whichever downtown gets it to become a sterile, soulless, yuppie wasteland where it is impossible for any working or middle class people to live.

Source: I'm from Seattle and work here currently. You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. Be REALLY careful what you wish for.

 

[Futureman]

Come to Pittsburgh.

Please no. Pittsburgh is doing great without Amazon. I'm sure there would be lots of good but it would end up being East Liberty x10.

 

[jay]

Can't we just get rid of corporate and income tax to really woo them?

 

[mlclmtckr]

If by "revitalize" you mean "gentrify into oblivion," then sure.

Expect whichever downtown gets it to become a sterile, soulless, yuppie wasteland where it is impossible for any working or middle class people to live.

Source: I'm from Seattle and work here currently. You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. Be REALLY careful what you wish for.

I don't understand what makes anyone look at the current big tech company towns and think "yeah I want that to happen to my city too"

 

[Snaku]

If by "revitalize" you mean "gentrify into oblivion," then sure.

Expect whichever downtown gets it to become a sterile, soulless, yuppie wasteland where it is impossible for any working or middle class people to live.

Source: I'm from Seattle and work here currently. You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. Be REALLY careful what you wish for.

Well as long as it has a view of Historic Kenny's House, I'm down.

 

[entremet]

I don't understand what makes anyone look at the current big tech company towns and think "yeah I want that to happen to my city too"

Why not? Gentrification can be controversial, but many people do want it. If not, why are young professionals flocking to cities?

I get the ethical ramifications against gentrification. But sometimes I feel many of you are super out of touch. People want gentrification.

Again, I'm not for gentrification. It's a big problem. But the fact that it keeps happening means there's a positive feedback loop going on.

 

[Kuro]

Hmm should have invested in Baltimore real estate

 

[kirblar]

I don't understand what makes anyone look at the current big tech company towns and think "yeah I want that to happen to my city too"

The problem is with the residents refusing to actually allow proper growth and expansion in SF/Seattle, not with the tech companies being present!

This is why Amazon's looking for a "HQ2" in the first place. (spoiler: it's not really "2")

 

[mlclmtckr]

Why not? Gentrification can be controversial, but many people do want it. If not, why are young professionals flocking to cities?

I get the ethical ramification against gentrification. But sometimes I feel many of you are super out of touch. People want gentrification.

Do you currently live and pay rent in a city

 

[maxcriden]

Heard on NPR this morning about interesting article about whether it's worth it to these cities to make these deals.

http://www.npr.org/2017/10/18/55695...a-mega-deal-like-amazon-s-hq2-always-worth-it

 

[ClosingADoor]

I get they want a major company to settle in their region and get the jobs that come with it. But bragging about how much money you will let Amazon save in taxes is a bit disgusting.

 

[Falchion]

That's probably going to be hard to beat for any of the other cities.

 

[entremet]

Do you currently live and pay rent in a city

Yes. I've had to move twice because of rent hikes. I'm not arguing for it. I'm just saying that there's a huge demand for city living that has not been sated by current urban planning.

 

[explodet]

Think of all the sports stadiums that could have paid for!

 

[Condom]

competition is lovely aint it

 

[RinsFury]

The grovelling to our corporate overlords is pretty gross.

 

[TyrantII]

This is totally insane.

Government; for the corps, by the corps, of the corps I guess.

 

[dakilla13]

Please let us pay you to gentrify the fuck out of a couple of neighbourhoods thanks

Holy shit I hope they don't come to Toronto

Or don't come and keep Baltimore blighted.

 

[ag-my001]

Think of all the sports stadiums that could have paid for!

One?

 

[Ourobolus]

I mean on one hand it's gonna fuck over plenty of people through gentrification

On the other hand, maybe the value of my home in Cheverly will go up

 

[Kelsdesu]

They should be in Detroit. Period.

 

[entremet]

The grovelling to our corporate overlords is pretty gross.

50,000 jobs is a huge boon. Plus second order effects--increased tax revenues via sales and income taxes, and so on.

It's pragmatic.

If Amazon can revitalize Baltimore, that would be a great thing.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Yes. I've had to move twice because of rent hikes. I'm not arguing for it. I'm just saying that there's a huge demand for city living that has not been sated by current urban planning.

Well yeah of course.

Oh I see what you meant now, I said "I don't see how anyone..." and you were saying you did see how. Fair enough!

edit - oh wait i just saw your post above im still confused

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

fuck that nonesense

 

[ApharmdX]

That's a rich package and Maryland has a ton of tech workers already, I think we'd be a good fit for Amazon, whether in Bmore or MoCo or wherever. On the other hand, it can't help cost of living in the DC-Bmore metropolitan area, which depending on which part you are talking about, is already pretty terrible. And you have to admit, that's pretty grotesque, giving a massive corporation that doesn't need it, such a giant incentive package.

 

[kirblar]

50,000 jobs is a huge boon. Plus second order effects--increased tax revenues via sales and income taxes, and so on.

It's pragmatic.

If Amazon can revitalize Baltimore, that would be a great thing.

The transportation costs have to be a big reason this is such a big expenditure relative to other options - Maryland is super hilly.

That's a rich package and Maryland has a ton of tech workers already, I think we'd be a good fit for Amazon, whether in Bmore or MoCo or wherever. On the other hand, it can't help cost of living in the DC-Bmore metropolitan area, which depending on which part you are talking about, is already pretty terrible. And you have to admit, that's pretty grotesque, giving a massive corporation that doesn't need it, such a giant incentive package.

I cannot see them touching the 270 corridor, way too much congestion already.

 

[DogDude]

It's going to Chicago

 

[entremet]

Well yeah of course.

Oh I see what you meant now, I said "I don't see how anyone..." and you were saying you did see how. Fair enough!

edit - oh wait i just saw your post above im still confused

1. There is a demand for gentrification for a certain class of people--yuppies, high-income earners, etc.
2. Gentrification can be bad, specifically in displacing current residents.
3. While it can be bad, I think it could help certain historic cities that need investment and aren't getting it from the Feds--Baltimore, Detroit, Cleveland are good examples. I'd take the bad of gentrification to help those cities thrive again. The future is cities anyway.

To clarify on point three. Rural areas are dying. The hot economic sectors in the US are cities and their surrounding suburbs. We need to grow these sectors intentionally. If corporations are going to lead the charge, I have no problem. I just hope states negotiate wisely.

 

[zelas]

All this time I assumed MD wasn't a part of this circus because there was nowhere for Amazin to go that wouldn't cause our traffic woes to become more problematic, while also being somewhere amazon employees would want to live.

Supposedly Port Covington is where he has in mind. Too me that sounds like it would be problem. Traffic is already really bad getting in and out of the city. And afaik housing seems limited in that immediate area. Anyone know how they would handle that part of the equation? Besides building 30k new units lol.

Edit: Hogan's Port Covington hype

 

[mlclmtckr]

1. There is a demand for gentrification for certain class of people.
2. Gentrification can be bad.
3. While it can be bad, I think it could help certain historic cities that need investment and aren't getting it from the Feds--Baltimore, Detroit, Cleveland are good examples. I'd take the bad of gentrification to help those cities thrive again. The future is cities anyway.

but is it really making a city "thrive" to build a giant campus and fill it with high paid people almost all of whom moved there from other places and giving the corporation that built the campus a tax break

so you have gentrification and you have a radical change in a city's culture and cost of living goes up and more demand is placed on the city's services and the city doesn't even get the normal amount of taxes in return

so yes good job there are 20,000 new jobs in this city, too bad those jobs aren't really for the people in the city right now and too bad the current businesses and neighbourhoods will become more expensive, more corporatised, and more boring to cater to all the 22 year old STEM dudes who moved there

 

[Ecotic]

From a practical standpoint, Maryland has to sweeten the pot to be considered. Moody's doesn't have Baltimore within the top 10 on their list. Amazon wouldn't locate there otherwise.

 

[The Technomancer]

If by "revitalize" you mean "gentrify into oblivion," then sure.

Expect whichever downtown gets it to become a sterile, soulless, yuppie wasteland where it is impossible for any working or middle class people to live.

Source: I'm from Seattle and work here currently. You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. Be REALLY careful what you wish for.

I'm really hoping they don't land in Chicago

EDIT: actually that's already the loop so maybe it should be Chicago

 

[entremet]

but is it really making a city "thrive" to build a giant campus and fill it with high paid people almost all of whom moved there from other places and giving the corporation that built the campus a tax break

so you have gentrification and you have a radical change in a city's culture and cost of living goes up and more demand is placed on the city's services and the city doesn't even get the normal amount of taxes in return

so yes good job there are 20,000 new jobs in this city, too bad those jobs aren't really for the people in the city right now and too bad the current businesses and neighbourhoods will become more expensive, more corporatised, and more boring to cater to all the 22 year old STEM dudes who moved there

So only 22 year STEM dudes will be working at Amazon?

 

[PoorChoices]

Think of all the sports stadiums that could have paid for!

Fun fact: Baltimore's Camden Yards and M&T Stadium are literally across the street from one another.

We don't have the room for another stadium

 

[mlclmtckr]

So only 22 year STEM dudes will be working at Amazon?

i mean i thought it was pretty clear that this was not a literal statement, but like that is the general sentiment you see from people who lived in SF or Seattle before the big tech companies moved there

 

[entremet]

i mean i thought it was pretty clear that this was not a literal statement, but like that is the general sentiment you see from people who lived in SF or Seattle before the big tech companies moved there

Oh I know it's not literal, but that wouldn't matter much. Amazon would just be the first big mover. Both SF and Seattle aren't boring and lifeless places.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Oh I know it's not literal, but that wouldn't matter much. Amazon would just be the first big mover. Both SF and Seattle aren't boring and lifeless places.

well okay but the Seattle native ITT and also like everyone I've heard talk about this disagree

 

[kirblar]

but is it really making a city "thrive" to build a giant campus and fill it with high paid people almost all of whom moved there from other places and giving the corporation that built the campus a tax break

so you have gentrification and you have a radical change in a city's culture and cost of living goes up and more demand is placed on the city's services and the city doesn't even get the normal amount of taxes in return

so yes good job there are 20,000 new jobs in this city, too bad those jobs aren't really for the people in the city right now and too bad the current businesses and neighbourhoods will become more expensive, more corporatised, and more boring to cater to all the 22 year old STEM dudes who moved there

My area (NoVA) is made up mostly of people who've moved here from elsewhere.

It's fantastic. You should try it some time.

 

[entremet]

well okay but the Seattle native ITT and also like everyone I've heard talk about this disagree

Well Seattle had Microsoft for ages. Technically Redmond, I know. Baltimore has nothing. Let Baltimore get some shine, man lol.

 

[mlclmtckr]

My area (NoVA) is made up mostly of people who've moved here from elsewhere.

It's fantastic. You should try it some time.

i live in a city that is 46% immigrants from other countries, you can keep your woke corporatism and condescension

 

[Horns]

Governor Hogan is desperate to do anything to appease the state ahead of the election next year. He'll sell the state out to save his neck.

 

[dakilla13]

well okay but the Seattle native ITT and also like everyone I've heard talk about this disagree

I'm a Seattle native and the only people I know that complain are people who moved to Seattle around 2007 / 2008. My friends and I who grew up in the area are glad to see Seattle going from a sleepy town feel to a world class city.

 

[Zissou]

When your incentive package value approaches the economic value they bring to the state, what's the point?

 

[zelas]

My area (NoVA) is made up mostly of people who've moved here from elsewhere.

It's fantastic. You should try it some time.

NoVA and Baltimore City are not comparable when it comes to gentrification. Not even close.