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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb. He just completed Mass Effect 3 without getting the ending spoiled, and he was apparently a big fan of Mass Effect.

having never beaten me3 i thought i would just spoil it for myself and listen to the podcast. it was a good time. the extended cut endings dont sound so bad but synthesis is still absolutely hokey as hell. even if it were basically just suppose to represent 'forced accession' it's still unclear what drawbacks if any were suppose to be considerable.

control is basically everything to going back to normal. you can even imagine that shepard bot decommissions himself at some point in the future when everything is dandy if you fear his corruption.

the destroy ending is fine if the shepard survival was meant to imply geth and edi survival.

rejection is nonsensical.

i feel that the problems with the endings is that while they inspire some interesting discussion they're dumb as hell in the context of the whole story.

and the star child was pure fucking stupidity. i hate children's voices attempting to sound omnipotent and making the catalyst appear as a child reeked of desperate dramatic bull shitery.
 

Gazzawa

Member
having never beaten me3 i thought i would just spoil it for myself and listen to the podcast. it was a good time. the extended cut endings dont sound so bad but synthesis is still absolutely hokey as hell. even if it were basically just suppose to represent 'forced accession' it's still unclear what drawbacks if any were suppose to be considerable.

control is basically everything to going back to normal. you can even imagine that shepard bot decommissions himself at some point in the future when everything is dandy if you fear his corruption.

the destroy ending is fine if the shepard survival was meant to imply geth and edi survival.

rejection is nonsensical.

i feel that the problems with the endings is that while they inspire some interesting discussion they're dumb as hell in the context of the whole story.

and the star child was pure fucking stupidity. i hate children's voices attempting to sound omnipotent and making the catalyst appear as a child reeked of desperate dramatic bull shitery.
It's ok man. Those thoughts will pass.
Play some multiplayer it's gud.
Damage is done ending is poop
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Just finished the game. What exactly was wrong with that ending? I personally thought it was great.

Did you play with the extended cut? Because the original ending was way worse, incomplete, confusing and filled with speculations(how did my 2 squadmates got into the Normandy, did my crew escaped that jungle planet or were they stuck there until they die?, what happened to the rest of the galaxy after the Relays apparently exploded, did we just fucked up the whole galaxy by doing that?(and later Relays were changed to just severely damaged with the EC). And i think the Catalyst didn't explain as much stuff originally either.
 
Just finished the game. What exactly was wrong with that ending? I personally thought it was great.
tumblr_m14p0grq6M1qk6yhjo1_500.jpg
 

flyover

Member
The extended DLC being an improvement doesn't erase the rest of the ending's (bigger, non-nitpicky) issues. It's like having your wallet stolen and then finding five bucks on the ground.
 

DTKT

Member
I don't think it was great, but it wasn't as bad as people painted it.

Extended cut? Keep in mind that the original experience is missing a lot of extra stuff. The original ending is so abrupt that you feel like you missed out on some content.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Original ending: Pick one color . . . see the same results. THE END BITCHES! BUY MORE DLC MOTHER FUCEKRS!



What are we going to do to celebrate the one year anniversary of having our souls crushed? I can't believe the first spoiler thread was filled in about two weeks.
 

spekkeh

Banned
Extended cut? Keep in mind that the original experience is missing a lot of extra stuff. The original ending is so abrupt that you feel like you missed out on some content.

I'm one of those that thought the OC wasn't that bad either. Yes it left a number of threads hanging and was pretty abrupt, but resounded pretty well emotionally.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
I'm one of those that thought the OC wasn't that bad either. Yes it left a number of threads hanging and was pretty abrupt, but resound pretty well emotionally.
Avatar quote aside, depression-inducing endings don't really resound well emotionally.

Moreover, now that it's confirmed (from the second DLC) that space vent kid is indeed an AI, the original ending is really awful. I mean, I thought it was an AI, anyway, but it doesn't justify the writer's goals for "SPECULATION."
 

spekkeh

Banned
They don't? I thought that was basically what classical tragedies were about.

(I'm not saying there aren't problems with the story itself)
 

DTKT

Member
They don't? I thought that was basically what classical tragedies were about.

(I'm not saying there aren't problems with the story itself)

I've never thought of the Mass Effect series as a classical tragedy. It's always been about Shepard solving the fuck out of every single issue in the Galaxy. He is space Jesus after all.
 

spekkeh

Banned
No you're right, it was thematically quite different from the previous two ME games, although they were foreshadowing the phyrric victory at a few parts of 3. I quite liked that they actually tried to do a climax, falling action and denouement, even though they didn't quite pull it off because of the aforementioned power trip that they did up till then.

(in fact it's a problem every RPG necessarily faces, because growing in power as the game progresses is ill-suited to a falling action and tragic denouement).
 

Izick

Member
Well...6 years. I've been playing the series since...well actually it was about a week before it hit store shelves I remember, it was a present from a friend who worked at a retail store that broke street date. I was so excited back then, I remember being infinitely hyped for it. I mean like nothing I've ever been hyped for. And it totally lived up to my expectations. I loved the game as an RPG, and it was an alright shooter to boot. Still one of my favorites from this generation, and of all time.

Then Mass Effect 2 came out, and shit...while it did "simplify" a little too much in the RPG department, the dialogue and story was just as good if not better than the first, and the shooting was sublime. While I still enjoyed Mass Effect 1's noire style to it, I like how each iteration of the series kind of took on a new atmosphere to it. 2 felt like a dirty dozen take on the franchise and I loved it. The only think I was really disappointed in was that I couldn't import my ME 1 save because I didn't have a correct save file, so that kind of took a little oomph out of 2 and 3's continuation of stuff. Anyway, I loved the new characters and story, and just thought it was fantastic.

My whole story with Mass Effect 3 is kind of strange looking back. I remember not being that excited for it when it was announced. The announcement trailer seemed really strange to me, and part of me thought it was a bit too soon after ME 2. Anyway, I was still fairly excited to see what would happen. By the time the game came out, I was hearing so much weird stuff about the game, and I had little money at that point so I skipped on it. Well, then I kind of just went for the ride and saw all this crazy shit go down about the ending (which I never spoiled for myself) and stuff, so I held off. Finally, I bought it about a month ago I think, along with the Leviathan, Extended Cut Ending, and From Ashes DLC's.

So I just finished it and wow...I really feel good about it. I know, the ending explanation is a little weak, I didn't like the whole kid thing in the game, kids usually ruin everything because their voices are strange and they can't act (Phantom Menace) but it definitely didn't ruin the 45 hours of amazing fun I had. Even so, I don't really feel like the game was completely soured just because of that, I mean it wasn't the best ending, but it wasn't as bad as I expected. With all that said, I loved every second of this game, and while it definitely could have used a few more weird side quests and stuff like that, I still think it was fantastic. Here's why:

-the combat is fantastic: maybe not Gears of War level, but damn close
-the story was pretty thrilling and kept me interested even though some curve balls could be seen from space
-I liked that there was more RPG stuff, although not as much as I would like
-the DLC was pretty great, although there's no excuse for From Ashes not being part of the game; I couldn't imagine playing through that game without Javik
-smaller subplots are resolved fairly well

There's a lot of other stuff too, but those are some of the key things to me.

I know a lot of people were upset about the ending, but I just can't help but feel that I've gotten a total of 300 hours or so from these three games, and I loved almost every minute of it. Mass Effect is one of those games I will always remember fondly, and I hope the future is bright. After seeing the end, I'm not exactly sure how another game can happen story-wise, but I'm excited. Hopefully even with all the fancy new stuff they keep it an RPG at heart.

Also, could anyone explain to me what they added or changed from the original, since I've never seen anything but the extended cut.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Also, could anyone explain to me what they added or changed from the original, since I've never seen anything but the extended cut.

All the endings were basically the same...Shepard sacrifice him(her)self, Relays explode(literally) in different colors, the Normandy's crew get stuck on the jungle planet, Joker and someone else come out. The End.

There also was less details coming from the "kid", no scene showing your 2 injured squadmates being evacuated (and also no sad goodbye scene if you brought the squadmate you romanced with you on the final mission).
 

Izick

Member
All the endings were basically the same...Shepard sacrifice him(her)self, Relays explode(literally) in different colors, the Normandy's crew get stuck on the jungle planet, Joker and someone else come out. The End.

There also was less details coming from the "kid", no scene showing your 2 injured squadmates being evacuated (and also no sad goodbye scene if you brought the squadmate you romanced with you on the final scene).

So the extended cut really didn't change that much?

EDIT: Also, now that i think about it, couldn't the synthesize ending just be the Reapers programming everyone? Is that what people refer to with the indoctrination theory?
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
So the extended cut really didn't change that much?

Well, knowing that your crew were actually able to leave the jungle planet was good to know.

Knowing how your 2 squadmates got on the Normandy while you were away was good too.

Knowing that the Relays are not completely destroyed, thus not dooming an entire galaxy to slowy perish due to lack of quick travel(not to mention many of the systems destroyed) was good too.

And the endings being actually different this time too. There was no final scene with Hackett/Godly Shepard/EDI talking at the time. There also wasn't an option to tell the kid to go fuck himself(and letting the Reapers win by doing so).

It might seem like nothing, but the original was really bad, incomplete and left us with too many speculations,
 

Rodhull

Member
So the extended cut really didn't change that much?

Not really as far as the story goes. It just changed/retconned some of the more glaring things like the mass relays being destroyed in the original ending would have caused all life in those systems being destroyed. This was established in ME2's Arrival dlc and ME3's codex entries.

In the extended cut it was changed so that the relays were just badly damaged rather than destroyed. Whether this was a reaction to fan complaints or Bioware just forgot or didn't understand it's own lore is anyone's guess.
 

Izick

Member
Okay now that I'm listening to Angry Joe and reading these replies I think I understand the differences. I definitely would have still been happy with the series as a whole if I had just played that regular ending, but it seems kind of shittier in comparison to the fixed ending.

Hmm, I'm not sure how to feel about this. The ending definitely isn't as good as it should have been, but I'm still really happy with the time I had.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Okay now that I'm listening to Angry Joe and reading these replies I think I understand the differences. I definitely would have still been happy with the series as a whole if I had just played that regular ending, but it seems kind of shittier in comparison to the fixed ending.

Hmm, I'm not sure how to feel about this. The ending definitely isn't as good as it should have been, but I'm still really happy with the time I had.

It's best not to think too much about it. Some people did, and now they're all "MASS EFFECT IS RUINED FOREVER, I CAN'T EVEN PLAY THE GAMES ANYMORE ;_;". Not saying that you would to, but... some people just take this thing a little bit too seriously.
 

spekkeh

Banned
Okay now that I'm listening to Angry Joe and reading these replies I think I understand the differences. I definitely would have still been happy with the series as a whole if I had just played that regular ending, but it seems kind of shittier in comparison to the fixed ending.

Hmm, I'm not sure how to feel about this. The ending definitely isn't as good as it should have been, but I'm still really happy with the time I had.

I only played the original endings. I'm waiting for the last DLC to hit to play through it again, but this was my stance as well. The ending could have been a lot better but certainly didn't sour my experience in the slightest. The only real bummer was that it was the end.
 

Izick

Member
It's best not to think too much about it. Some people did, and now they're all "MASS EFFECT IS RUINED FOREVER, I CAN'T EVEN PLAY THE GAMES ANYMORE ;_;". Not saying that you would to, but... some people just take this thing a little bit too seriously.

I only played the original endings. I'm waiting for the last DLC to hit to play through it again, but this was my stance as well. The ending could have been a lot better but certainly didn't sour my experience in the slightest. The only real bummer was that it was the end.

I don't know, I want to think about it and research it a bit more. I don't think I'm ever going to hate Mass Effect, or not love Mass Effect to be precise. It's not even anywhere close to like the Star Wars prequels or something, which was a whole lot of bad compounded onto the franchise over time, and I still love Star Wars. I mean I understand how people are very disappointed, but that can't ever stop me from loving all of the first two games and 99% of Mass Effect 3.

So, to just go into it a little bit. What do you guys think about that indoctrination theory? For some reason I picked the Synthesize ending because I thought the little asshole made it sound like the true paragon choice, but after seeing all the evidence like the Shepard reaper eyes for the two endings, and Shepard taking a breath after the ending when he just destroys the Reapers I mean it kind of makes perfect sense. What do you guys think?

Also you think there is going to be more ending-related DLC spekkeh?
 

spekkeh

Banned
So, to just go into it a little bit. What do you guys think about that indoctrination theory? For some reason I picked the Synthesize ending because I thought the little asshole made it sound like the true paragon choice, but after seeing all the evidence like the Shepard reaper eyes for the two endings, and Shepard taking a breath after the ending when he just destroys the Reapers I mean it kind of makes perfect sense. What do you guys think?
Honestly I think they messed up at the end of the dev cycle due to time constraints. Casey Hudson assumed full control but seemed to have had his own ideas that didn't sit particularly well with what some of the other writers were working towards initially. It's quite clear that indoctrination was going to play a part near the end, but the standoff with TIM is very short and after that it sort of sizzles out, before you're presented with the three options, that beforehand they said they wouldn't do and seem to be copied wholesale from Deus Ex. While playing it I thought that Control was pretty much what the space kid wanted so could be indoctrination. I didn't think synthesis made a lot of sense, but could also be indoctrination (therefore I chose destroy). However, there's too many things that don't really add up if you're going for full indoctrination hypothesis.
Also you think there is going to be more ending-related DLC spekkeh?
They said they wouldn't, but I would be very much surprised if their last DLC doesn't change the meaning of the ending in some way.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
So yeah, finished it yesterday.

I know, super late, but I wasn't really excited for it but I found it heavily discounted and said to myself what the hell with next gen coming I might as well wrap this after completing 1 and 2.

Nice game, lack of boss encounters disappointing. Really a brute/harvester/banshee rush? How lazy. Or the two (three?) brutes in Tuchanka.

And of course the ending... Disappointing. I like that fan ending much better, as shoddily put together as it is. And I'm of the opinion destroy is the only good ending, despite losing the geth (which I'm sure Bioware put there JUST to make synthesis the best ending, talk about lame. If at least it was EMS dependent...).

Still I'm positive of the trilogy overall. The whole importing saves I thought it was great even with the way Bioware handled the different decisions and its an okeyish space soap opera given videogame writing standards.

Final trilogy score B. ME1 is the most unique but its broken to hell. ME2 is very generic but the crew is a big draw. ME3 is a good game, still generic feeling and the lack of boss encounters is a disappointment compared to ME2 but i liked that customisation is back. It's a shame 2 and 3 were rushed tho.

Oh well.
 
I just finished my first playthrough, I'm pretty sure I got the worst ending. I didn't read up on any spoilers prior.
I shot the starchild instead of making a choice... that's what curiosity gets me. Reapers wiped out organic life in the galaxy, the cycle continues...
 

witness

Member
Finally finished this. I played through all three back-to-back-to-back for the past two months on PS3 and just finished it tonight. I played the original two back in the day on 360 but never got the third and thought this would be the best way to do play the series.

I had all the DLC but Arrival, and I did buy the Citadel DLC and played through everything with it before the Cronos Station. I played through all three paragon femshep and a biotic. It was just spectacular. The first games story is still amazing over 5 years later, the second game just has so many interesting characters and great missions, and for me, the third game was a fantastic culmination just filled with revelations that ended great.

I know I did not get the same experience that was available a year ago. Leviathan, Extended Cut, and the Citadel did not exist but its the experience I gladly went on. I ended up choosing the red destroy the reapers ending and it was great. The 100+ hours I spent the last two months playing nothing but Mass Effect was made all worth it. Leviathan's revelations were astounding, the Citadel's writing and moments were just so heartwarming and genuinely funny, and the ending wrapped up perfectly for me (I got the Shep lives moment also). There were so many teary eyed moments for me at the end of the Citadel when you go back to the ship and when you say your goodbye to Garrus on Earth in particular were heart wrenching.

I can't say enough good things about the series. It is something that will stick with me twenty years from now.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
I just finished my first playthrough, I'm pretty sure I got the worst ending. I didn't read up on any spoilers prior. I shot the starchild instead of making a choice... that's what curiosity gets me. Reapers wiped out organic life in the galaxy, the cycle continues...
This is the spoiler thread, no need to spoiler that. :p
 
My Shepard was always the one who tried to "save everyone". I see the Destroy ending as the end of his character arc, and the realization that in order to have victory, sacrifice is neccesary. Sucks to be a synthetic in the Mass Effect universe, though.

Gearing up for one more replay, with all DLC. It'll be fun.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
having never beaten me3 i thought i would just spoil it for myself and listen to the podcast. it was a good time. the extended cut endings dont sound so bad but synthesis is still absolutely hokey as hell. even if it were basically just suppose to represent 'forced accession' it's still unclear what drawbacks if any were suppose to be considerable.

control is basically everything to going back to normal. you can even imagine that shepard bot decommissions himself at some point in the future when everything is dandy if you fear his corruption.

the destroy ending is fine if the shepard survival was meant to imply geth and edi survival.

rejection is nonsensical.

No it isn't. My first reaction was to reject the catalyst. I did. The ending sucked. So I went back and got the "perfect ending". I'm not one for perfect endings. I'm not one for LoTRs ending, either, with hours of just everyone being happy. More stories should be able to leave some things to imagination of how the universe was next. That does not make it OK to add extra speculation. That planet thing made no sense. All other ships managed to escape the blast, but for some reason, the Normandy is hit?

The ship was fixed in the extended cut, they flew away. The ship is EDI, so she should be OK, too, right? Yet she's on the wall.

I think it's a good choice to choose to control (that's what the Reapers convinced The Illusive Man to try and do). The synthesis was what Saren was going for in ME1, another thing the Reapers had indoctrinated people to believe in. Destroy made most sense. Sucks to sacrifice Geth and EDI had to be sacrificed, but hey. But it's a good point by The Catalyst that they'd just be remade, and the cycle continue.

So the two first seems to be part of Indoctrination Theory, and the last seems not to solve the problem. Even without interpreting it like that, there's still a huge problem. You're talking to the catalyst. You're talking to the construct of the Leviathan. An AI whose sole purpose for millions of years have been to 'solve the problem' of preserving organic life. But the AI had that poor interpretation of "I have to keep you from harming yourself" that Asimov has discussed long ago. So it seems the AIs interpretation of preserving organic life would always be poorly interpreted.

From that, I believe that the catalyst had no intention of leaving this stuff to chance. Why would the AI just go "oh, well, you can just destroy all the things I made to preserve you now". Why would it allow organics to destroy the reapers only if they'd make new synthetics that would threaten all organic life as we know it? Its directive was to preserve life.

I believe the catalyst had no intention of letting Shepard choose shit. That's why I figured the Catalyst could say whatever the fuck it wanted, and I wouldn't believe in what it said. I think the refuse ending made a lot of sense, especially viewed in one of the last discussions Shepard has with EDI: EDI asks why people sacrificed themselves for people they didn't know, and Shepard (mine, anyway) answered that sometimes life is more than just survival of yourself and those you know.

Refusal in that case means that Shepard sacrificed the entire cycle, and went back to gear up for the next. Hopefully, Liara's library left behind instructions not to try and use the crucible (because, then they'd be at the mercy of the catalyst again, and they could fall victim to his deception) - or alter it to use it without the catalyst. Hopefully the new generation finds it early enough to gear up to kick the Reapers' ass. The woman-stargazer ending seems to build under this, by saying "[The Shepard] (meant as a people, as I took it. "The Shepard" being roughly equivalent to "The Protheans") sacrificed themselves, so we could be safe.

If my theories are right (huge contingency, no doubt), then refusal is the best ending. It's selfless, and sadly you have to sacrifice everyone in this cycle, but in turn, all subsequent life can be truly free. In that case, also, the fact that the Catalyst says "the cycle continues" could also be a belief and also intimidation. After all, its directive is to keep this up, as far as it understands it. The Reaper-like voice in "So be it" makes me believe this is sort of the "true form" of the catalyst, and displaying itself in this innocent form, might just be another ploy to make us more susceptible to believe its lies.

Notice also that there are three layers in the child's voice. A child's, female Shepard and male Shepard. I have a very good ear both musically, and when it comes to voices, and this was one of the first things that poppe out to me, and the internet seems to agree, so far as I looked it up.

and the star child was pure fucking stupidity. i hate children's voices attempting to sound omnipotent and making the catalyst appear as a child reeked of desperate dramatic bull shitery.

It makes perfect sense seen in the eyes of the Indoctrination Theory. No one else saw the child in the beginning of the game, and he was suddenly gone from the vent. None of the soldiers cared when he got on the ship, and there were no other civilians. Shepard started having dreams about this just afterwards. Seems like Reapers clever ways of wearing him down. Why would Shepard be immune to indoctrination after having spend to much time around reapers?
 

Torraz

Member
Is it worth it to play ME3 on the PS3 (got it for free thanks to PS+) if I played the first two games on the PC?

I don't think I'll be able to use anyone else's savegame, right? I read that the default choices that the game makes in this case are pretty shitty.

Thanks.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
Is it worth it to play ME3 on the PS3 (got it for free thanks to PS+) if I played the first two games on the PC?

I don't think I'll be able to use anyone else's savegame, right? I read that the default choices that the game makes in this case are pretty shitty.

Thanks.

Isn't there like an introduction that takes you through the major events and has you take the major choices?

I'd never play the game without my previous saves, but that's just me. I think this game is worth buying, anyway. But if you aren't going to buy it, since you got it, you still know you have to play it, because it is a fantastic game. So don't miss out on it, but I couldn't see not buying it for the platform I have save-games for.
 

Torraz

Member
Isn't there like an introduction that takes you through the major events and has you take the major choices?

I'd never play the game without my previous saves, but that's just me. I think this game is worth buying, anyway. But if you aren't going to buy it, since you got it, you still know you have to play it, because it is a fantastic game. So don't miss out on it, but I couldn't see not buying it for the platform I have save-games for.

Yeah. The savegame thing is a bit annoying, if there is no option to set some hypothetical choices... On the PC I'd be able to use a savegame generator, in the worst case, but I think, due to trophies, save games are locked on the PS3.
 

DTKT

Member
I see that the Indoc theory is making a comeback. I'm sure that anything can make sense when you see it through a lens crafted out of bitterness and denial.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
I see that the Indoc theory is making a comeback. I'm sure that anything can make sense when you see it through a lens crafted out of bitterness and denial.

I never knew anything about the ending, other than the outcry against the bad ending. I didn't know it when it was ongoing, so I don't know if the outcry was against plot holes during the last hour of the game, or just the ternary ending system with poor following CGI.

I never understood the popularity of the Indoctrination theory. It's basically an attempt to excuse bad writing.

First time I played through, I did the refuse ending. I felt a bit underwhelmed, because there's basically no ending after it. Indoctrination theory or not, my theory about the catalyst wanting to placate Shepard at the encounter should be a very viable one. I see no reason why someone that has a directive to preserve organic life, but made the Reapers, to ever really give the choice back to the organics.

After the lackluster ending, I went back and started playing through the others. When I did, a lot of questions started coming to my mind. Why did The Harbinger suddenly just leave? Where the fuck did Anderson come from? Anderson appeared in another part of the citadel. Both gave the same recount, but Anderson said it reminded him of Shepard's description of the collector base. That's usually used in literature of a harbinger that this is one mind playing several parts. But I didn't think more about it. What did strike me as very odd, was that Anderson made it to a bridge, and passed it. He made it over as Shepard made it to the bridge. We didn't see him, but there was only one bridge into the control room. The way the whole thing was so linear and just lead up to the plot-device was very hard to swallow too, but at this point I thought this might be what people disliked about the ending.

But, when The Illusive Man entered, I heard the Reaper sounds. I started wondering if this was how indoctrination worked. I thought about coming to NeoGAF and asking about these things, but I found the indoctrination theory before that. I don't get where Anderson came from, but more startling was the fact that when Shepard shot Anderson, both groaned, and then, later, Shepard was shot in the exact same place, with a clear bullet-hole. Last bullet wielding gunman I fought was the Marauder before the beam, and he very distinctly shot me in the shoulder.

I only sat a question mark at this as far as I had gotten, but when I was presented the theory, and saw that the trees from the dreams about the boy was back near the beam, and only back when the alleged dream-sequence started. It's also important to note the clear Reaper presence in the dreams Shepard has. First time I did Destroy, and saw Shepard breath, I most definitely thought that that looked like rubble on Earth. But I still don't believe that Shepard didn't go to the Citadel. I'm not clear about that. I don't think this was just Shepard lying on the ground, totally hallucinating, and I'm not bothered that the Reapers didn't just turn off the beam. That's just plot-convenient.

To me, Reapers had tried indoctrinating Shepard since the meeting with Sovereign. He said turning Shepard would be very useful. Shepard is strong-willed, so it took a lot of trying. I think the Reapers really put all they had into doing it near the end. I think they still let him go to the Citadel, but I don't necessarily believe Anderson and The Illusive Man was there with him. They might just have been the inner conflict in Shepard's head. His gunshot wound, the groan of both Anderson and Shepard, and some other inconsistencies paint a picture more reminiscent of some sort of mind-game going on. It might all have accumulated to try and convince Shepard to do either the control or the synthesis ending. After all, the catalyst actually controls the Reapers. We have to infer some omniscience to it, and its choosing to represent itself as the child, seems to empower that. It might be its attempt to play on all the Reapers did to indoctrinate Shepard.

As I said before, the fact that no one else saw the kid, the kid disappeared and the dreams, fit very clearly with the ingame description of indoctrination. They try to persuade you and break you down with mental images and tricks.

The switching of the renegade and paragon colors also plays nicely into this theory. It just seems more was going on than met the eye, and it would be a bigger coincidence for all these pieces to just fit, than there being no composition behind the plot holes.

Lai Keng kept repeating "evolve or die!", and Saren was super-keen on fusing with synthetics. The persuasive nature of the catalyst to say "this is the obviously better choice" is also problematic. These things fit well. Without knowing anything about the original endings or anything, by my interactions with Leviathan, I figured the AI would likely try to deceive me when I met him, so I shot him in the head.

The indoctrination theory shook me to my core, too. It blew me away as a player. Because the reapers had managed to indoctrinate ME. I was going to choose the synthesize ending. But after having heard about it, I just sat there speechless, because I felt as if the Reapers hadn't indoctrinated Shepard, but had actually indoctrinated me. That was awesome. As in, 'inspiring awe'.

EDIT: Maybe it's just wanting to excuse a poor written ending. Who knows. I'm much more content think it's like that. Maybe that's how indoctrinated I am?! Not really, but it's a fun theory.
 
So I'm interested in getting the mass effect trilogy and obviously the DLC to have a complete game experience but when I add up the price of all the bioware points I need for all the DLC for the PC version, the amount of money I have to pay is astronomical. How do I go about this guys?
 

Lime

Member
So I'm interested in getting the mass effect trilogy and obviously the DLC to have a complete game experience but when I add up the price of all the bioware points I need for all the DLC for the PC version, the amount of money I have to pay is astronomical. How do I go about this guys?

Bioware points never ever go on sale.
 
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