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[Maledict]

I really hope they learnt their lesson from SW:TOR. Bioware storytelling in a multiplayer game doesn't work. You can have one or the other, but combining both just messes up both and frustrates the players a lot.

(SW:TOR is a decent single player game now for all intents and purposes).

 

[Ivory Samoan]

I really hope they learnt their lesson from SW:TOR. Bioware storytelling in a multiplayer game doesn't work. You can have one or the other, but combining both just messes up both and frustrates the players a lot.

(SW:TOR is a decent single player game now for all intents and purposes).

I've been playing ESO at launch and again of late, and I can say wholeheartedly that it's a great story based MP game: some of the stories in it are amazing even. Destiny's story got better with time, but not to ESO levels: but the stories I've made with people raiding in D1 have made up for that; they'll stick with me forever.

Mass Effect could of been a perfect platform for something like this, although the time period it took place in would be a bit hard to define.

 

[diaspora]

I'm 100% in your boat my friend.

It's painfully obvious that Mass Effect was thrown on the alter of sacrifice so that Anthem could live...and I'm 100% sure that's because EA knows 'games as a service' is where the big $$ is at now (like Destiny $$), and they wanted, nay, needed to be in that game and told Edmonton what they wanted.

Giving Mass Effect Montreal one of the most beloved game franchises of all time to go and blunder their way through like amateurs makes me salty as hell, even far more so now, that I see the amazing visuals and obvious effort that has gone into making Anthem (dev team numbers and $$ no doubt).

As a Destiny super-fan, I'm not seeing anything that makes me think 'Destiny-killer' in the slightest, I just hope that Mass Effect's sacrifice is worth it.

Why in the living frak they didn't just make a Mass Effect Online I don't know....proven loved IP, pour money and the A-team BioWare devs into it = $$$$$ if you ask me...SMH.

They didn't want to make more ME games.

 

[Patryn]

Why in the living frak they didn't just make a Mass Effect Online I don't know....proven loved IP, pour money and the A-team BioWare devs into it = $$$$$ if you ask me...SMH.

Are you forgetting about SWTOR? Star Wars is a far, far, FAR more loved IP than Mass Effect. They POURED money into it (to the point that DA2 was rushed because of it). And while it's making money, it still didn't set the world on fire.

Making an MMO at the time was the opposite of a good idea.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Are you forgetting about SWTOR? Star Wars is a far, far, FAR more loved IP than Mass Effect. They POURED money into it (to the point that DA2 was rushed because of it). And while it's making money, it still didn't set the world on fire.

Making an MMO at the time was the opposite of a good idea.

The difference is though, SWTOR was average as frak from the get go: I played it on release, have the CE etc etc (about 200 hours all up), and it was never that great a game.

What I'm saying is, if done right, then a Mass Effect shared world shooter/looter would have been amazing (and much preferable to a half-assed Andromeda and a new IP, well for me anyways).

It really does make me salty seeing BioWare give so little regard for their flagship science fiction IP, then put much more effort into Anthem, that's the main gist of my salt here.

 

[Maledict]

I don't mind them moving onto new things, creatively. You have to let studios do that. Tying studios into Ips is why Microsoft is in such a bind this console generation, whereas Sony has profited immensely from giving studios the freedom to create new things.

I just wish if that were the case they wouldn't have bothered with Andromeda full stop. I know some people like it here, and I've caved and bought it on sale for my Pro, but I cannot get away from the fact it's *still* a poor looking game, that has probably killed the series off for good. I'd have rather no game than a bad game.

(WHY DOES NO-ONES FOREHEAD MOVE IN ANDROMEDA?).

 

[diaspora]

I don't mind them moving onto new things, creatively. You have to let studios do that. Tying studios into Ips is why Microsoft is in such a bind this console generation, whereas Sony has profited immensely from giving studios the freedom to create new things.

I just wish if that were the case they wouldn't have bothered with Andromeda full stop. I know some people like it here, and I've caved and bought it on sale for my Pro, but I cannot get away from the fact it's *still* a poor looking game, that has probably killed the series off for good. I'd have rather no game than a bad game.

(WHY DOES NO-ONES FOREHEAD MOVE IN ANDROMEDA?).

Because they spent 3 years on preproduction working on useless shit instead of trying to make a game. Then they blamed the engine when they realized that they spent 3 years on fucking procgen and ridiculously massive environments they couldn't use instead of using the time on putting together an animation workflow.

edit: FWIW I like Andromeda, but it exists because Edmonton was done with ME after 3 and EA thought they could give a new studio a shot while also offering them ridiculous latitude to get used to the engine. Five years, money, resources. It didn't work out. Now we're back to square one where ME is over anyway.

 

[Bisnic]

Best case scenario is that Bioware Edmonton goes back to Mass Effect after they're done with Anthem & Dragon Age 4... but that's still probably a decade away I guess.

 

[Patryn]

Best case scenario is that Bioware Edmonton goes back to Mass Effect after they're done with Anthem & Dragon Age 4... but that's still probably a decade away I guess.

Dragon Age was originally supposed to be 5 games, so in theory that part of the studio may free up after the next 2 DA titles.

 

[BeauRoger]

So, all the improvements that Bioware specified in their roadmap back in april are now patched in. What now? There is still a lot that could be done to improve SP, but according to Jason Schrier, most of the team has been either let go or reassigned, so maybe this is it?

 

[Patryn]

So, all the improvements that Bioware specified in their roadmap back in april are now patched in. What now? There is still a lot that could be done to improve SP, but according to Jason Schrier, most of the team has been either let go or reassigned, so maybe this is it?

We know that the producer of the game said that they were planning the next patch, so it sounds like we'll get at least one more, but I would expect it to focus heavily on bugs only.

 

[Maledict]

In single player, are the first three roles of skills for a lot of the passive abilities suppossed to be at 2%? Seems bizarre given later skills are at 15 or higher.

Also, am I wrong or is the frame rate on the pro version really chugging in parts? Does it get better once you're off the first world? Seems to be oddly straining my console even though it's doing nothing particularly spectacular.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

In single player, are the first three roles of skills for a lot of the passive abilities suppossed to be at 2%? Seems bizarre given later skills are at 15 or higher.

Also, am I wrong or is the frame rate on the pro version really chugging in parts? Does it get better once you're off the first world? Seems to be oddly straining my console even though it's doing nothing particularly spectacular.

Yeah, they push you toward specializing and they don't want you you to be a generalist.

 

[DevilDog]

Yeah, this is such a great idea - let's give SP and MP players that shit which they don't want in their games - which is why they, you know, SP and MP players and not SP/MP ones.

Yeah, Dark Souls did this and failed spectacularly right?

Don't be narrowminded, a lot of new stuff can appear from mixing elements together.

 

[dgrdsv]

Yeah, Dark Souls did this and failed spectacularly right?

Don't be narrowminded, a lot of new stuff can appear from mixing elements together.

Dark Souls failed spectacularly in my book since I have no interest in this game or any of its clones / sequels. I tried playing them and I was out at about 15 minutes in.

 

[Mindlog]

Having a look back on the series and wondering to what extent my stance on the trilogy is influenced by the general industry's trend of endless sequels. While I've really enjoyed Mass Effect should I just be satisfied with the idea that it was always meant to be a trilogy by its creators? My imaginary Shepard's path veered wildly from what we got in ME3, but in both the future of the ME Universe is open to a many possibilities. How long should I expect to keep exploring those possibilities? Forever? Maybe I'm just going to make myself comfortable with what I know now and move on.

Yeah, this is such a great idea - let's give SP and MP players that shit which they don't want in their games - which is why they, you know, SP and MP players and not SP/MP ones.

Sort of an odd position considering big titles like Destiny and Division.

On a similar note I've been playing a lot of Star Trek Online recently. The game is not great, but I'll be damned if I'm not reminded of systems I'd have loved to see in Mass Effect. The Witcher is always brought up as an example of what ME could strive to be and MMOs as examples of what it shouldn't emulate. However, building on the rudimentary STO systems would be an even bigger payoff.

Problem solving puzzles in dialogue.
In world contextualized puzzles (imagine space soduku broken out to actually be part of vault activation.)
Multiple paths to resources.
Competitive PvE! (sploosh, wish Destiny had this.)
There are dozens of small example that all add up to a neat game. If STO had more money behind it (production value) I imagine it could easily become much more popular.

I'm looking forward to the Anthem community thread.

 

[DevilDog]

Dark Souls failed spectacularly in my book since I have no interest in this game or any of its clones / sequels. I tried playing them and I was out at about 15 minutes in.

Ok, i thought you were trying to justify yourself through arguments, not just stating your preference.

 

[TC McQueen]

On a similar note I've been playing a lot of Star Trek Online recently. The game is not great, but I'll be damned if I'm not reminded of systems I'd have loved to see in Mass Effect. The Witcher is always brought up as an example of what ME could strive to be and MMOs as examples of what it shouldn't emulate. However, building on the rudimentary STO systems would be an even bigger payoff.

Problem solving puzzles in dialogue.
In world contextualized puzzles (imagine space soduku broken out to actually be part of vault activation.)
Multiple paths to resources.
Competitive PvE! (sploosh, wish Destiny had this.)
There are dozens of small example that all add up to a neat game. If STO had more money behind it (production value) I imagine it could easily become much more popular.

Honestly, I would play STO if it wasn't an MMO and didn't suffer from MMO UI syndrome. There's a lot of stuff in it that appeals to me (besides being about Star Trek), but I have no inclination to get into a time sink like that.

 

[dgrdsv]

Ok, i thought you were trying to justify yourself through arguments, not just stating your preference.

For a real argument you need to compare DS sales with and without said features and this is obviously impossible and thus your initial statement is meaningless. Hence my response.

 

[Mindlog]

Honestly, I would play STO if it wasn't an MMO and didn't suffer from MMO UI syndrome. There's a lot of stuff in it that appeals to me (besides being about Star Trek), but I have no inclination to get into a time sink like that.

The game is crazy agressive with its P2W as well, but playing for free is entirely viable. I have plenty of problems with it myself. Still consistently impressed by some aspect. While not earth shattering the story is more interesting than anything else put out by the franchise in a long time.

*There are rumors floating that the earlier reports of all MEA DLC being cancelled and the series being put on ice may be false.

 

[Patryn]

*There are rumors floating that the earlier reports of all MEA DLC being cancelled and the series being put on ice may be false.

From where? I saw you post in the other thread asking about Sinclair Networks, which has nothing to do with the original story which is based on totally original reporting by Jason Schreier.

The only thing to note is that Schreier said he didn't know definitively, but did not think that MEA would be getting SP DLC. He does state that he knows that the series is being put on ice.

 

[Mindlog]

From where? I saw you post in the other thread asking about Sinclair Networks, which has nothing to do with the original story which is based on totally original reporting by Jason Schreier.

The only thing to note is that Schreier said he didn't know definitively, but did not think that MEA would be getting SP DLC. He does state that he knows that the series is being put on ice.

I read the Schrier article looking for sources. I have no doubt that most of the team is on Anthem/DA. Thing is that article came out around the same time as Sinclair was doing their thing so I'm wondering how much of what is tied to what.

But I already see another certain sneak confirming the complete reassignment of all non-MP Mass Effect personnel ;]

No new single player DLC sounds about right again.

 

[prag16]

On twitter they seem to be leaving the door open for single player DLC. I mean, why be so cagey about it if it was already definitely decided that it's off the table? But who knows.

 

[Maledict]

Is there another patch planned? I thought I saw one mentioned for June. I'm finally playing the game through properly and don't want to be playing before a final patch hits.

 

[TC McQueen]

Is there another patch planned? I thought I saw one mentioned for June. I'm finally playing the game through properly and don't want to be playing before a final patch hits.

They're working on one, but I'm not sure if it's for single-player or MP.

 

[Mindlog]

On twitter they seem to be leaving the door open for single player DLC. I mean, why be so cagey about it if it was already definitely decided that it's off the table? But who knows.

Their answers are not inconsistent with the Kotaku article.

 

[prag16]

Their answers are not inconsistent with the Kotaku article.

Press sneak fuck admitted he didn't know for sure with regard to the DLC.

I'm not holding my breath, but maybe the dream is not 100% dead.. Yet..

 

[Mediking]

If you buy standard Andromeda... how do you upgrade to Deluxe???

 

[Patryn]

On twitter they seem to be leaving the door open for single player DLC. I mean, why be so cagey about it if it was already definitely decided that it's off the table? But who knows.

Because they're not authorized to officially say that it's not happening, in all likelihood.

Of course, it is possible that it's coming, but they can't say that either.

There's also the possibility that the whole situation is in flux and it may or may not happen.

The problem with the whole situation is that they're unlikely to ever directly confirm no DLC is coming (at least any time in the near to mid future), both because of the headlines that will spawn in the press as well as possibly depressing current sales of the game if it's viewed as definitively "dead".

 

[deafmedal]

They need to do something to tie up the story. I realize it may be in an Apex mission (as we had discussed earlier) and although it would suck at least it would be something. Hell, I haven't read a book in years but if there was a book that wrapped up the story I'd probably check it out. The talk about the series being put on ice has killed my urge to complete my NG+, something I was really looking forward to.

I'm enjoying MP still, even though I haven't played in a 4 friend group in months, I really only play with one other buddy, not sure how much longer it'll hold my interest. Definitely not as long as ME3MP did

No closure to ME:A and I may not even buy Anthem used >

 

[Patryn]

With Schreier now confidently reporting that MEA isn't getting SP DLC, I think MEA has to be considered a worse situation than even DA2, which managed to get 2 (yes, 2!) DLC packs.

I'm willing to bet all the novels have also been stealth cancelled, especially since the next one was likely going to lead into the DLC as I recall.

It really sucks to say it, but this series is dead, dead, dead.

 

[Mediking]

With Schreier now confidently reporting that MEA isn't getting SP DLC, I think MEA has to be considered a worse situation than even DA2, which managed to get 2 (yes, 2!) DLC packs.

I'm willing to bet all the novels have also been stealth cancelled, especially since the next one was likely going to lead into the DLC as I recall.

It really sucks to say it, but this series is dead, dead, dead.

I will be drafting a thread about this someday. Bioware/EA are reacting very wrong to Andromeda.... just do good PR and still support the game! Is it that hard?!

 

[Patryn]

I will be drafting a thread about this someday. Bioware/EA are reacting very wrong to Andromeda.... just do good PR and still support the game! Is it that hard?!

They took a huge bath on this game. No support would have saved it. It sold less than 1/3 what they were projecting it to sell, unfortunately.

That being said, they really should have done one DLC to just shore up a little fan support as they wave farewell to the series.

My honest guess is that the funding for the major patches (including bring back in Scott and Jaal's VAs) ate up anything that was budgeted for the DLC.

 

[Mediking]

They took a huge bath on this game. No support would have saved it. It sold less than 1/3 what they were projecting it to sell, unfortunately.

That being said, they really should have done one DLC to just shore up a little fan support as they wave farewell to the series.

My honest guess is that the funding for the major patches (including bring back in Scott and Jaal's VAs) ate up anything that was budgeted for the DLC.

This isn't fair... My copy of the game comes this weekend.... there ARE people who didn't care that there was negativity around the game and is gonna pick up when they have the time.

I want single player DLC. Lol

 

[Bisnic]

A lot of Andromeda issues could have been prevented if the game got another 6 months of production. But nooo, had to release before the end of fiscal year.

They didn't learn anything from ME3, which also would have required another 6 months and also released just before the end of fiscal year. The only thing(arguably) that saved ME3 was that it wasn't a standalone game but the end of a trilogy with many loved characters that people wanted to see how their story ended.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

No SP DLCs for Andromeda

 

[prag16]

A lot of Andromeda issues could have been prevented if the game got another 6 months of production. But nooo, had to release before the end of fiscal year.

They didn't learn anything from ME3, which also would have required another 6 months and also released just before the end of fiscal year. The only thing(arguably) that saved ME3 was that it wasn't a standalone game but the end of a trilogy with many loved characters that people wanted to see how their story ended.

Yep. Hell even three months (as we've seen) could have gone a long way. Loads of people are picking it up late at a discount and enjoying it. The narrative that it's some kind of objectively awful game that has persisted on the general side since day one has never been true, especially not now after the post launch support.

I kind of see why they're doing what they're doing though even though I hate it (and have absolutely no interest in the type of game Anthem is trying to be). But they really should have cobbled together one last single player DLC pack so that the game's fans aren't left hanging, and to earn a little overall good will (especially if they do some day decide to resurrect the franchise).

 

[Mindlog]

The facial animations, related ancillaries and bugs never really bothered me throughout my playthrough. Unfortunately my issues were much more fundamental and I'm not sure if 6 more months would have solved that.

Would have made the multiplayer better though. However, that's been getting solid support and I'm pretty happy with where it is. The only large outstanding issue there is off-host lag (headshots) and that might be one of those very difficult engine issues. I've had weird problems with other Frostbite games.

 

[TC McQueen]

By the way, they renamed the Lost Ark book:
twitter.com/MassEffect_News/status/880807776263565312

 

[Patryn]

By the way, they renamed the Lost Ark book:
twitter.com/MassEffect_News/status/880807776263565312

Honestly surprised it didn't get cancelled.

 

[Lucreto]

I will wait until EA or Shinobi can confirm there is no dlc. I find them more credible.

If true, I will be cancelling all my EA preorders and will only get the the next Dragon Age.

 

[Patryn]

I will wait until EA or Shinobi can confirm there is no dlc. I find them more credible.

If true, I will be cancelling all my EA preorders and will only get the the next Dragon Age.

Schreier is incredibly credible, and definitely has sources inside Bioware. After all, he wrote a whole chapter on the development of Dragon Age: Inquisition in his new book.

I highly doubt EA will make an official statement on there not being DLC outside of possibly their next fiscal report, when they talk about how much money they lost on the game.

 

[prag16]

By the way, they renamed the Lost Ark book:
twitter.com/MassEffect_News/status/880807776263565312

I thought the Lost Ark was book 2 with Annihilation as book 3 but could be wrong.

If it was indeed a renaming, there's still slight hope it gets retooled to tie up loose ends and gets a release.

 

[diaspora]

A lot of Andromeda issues could have been prevented if the game got another 6 months of production. But nooo, had to release before the end of fiscal year.

They didn't learn anything from ME3, which also would have required another 6 months and also released just before the end of fiscal year. The only thing(arguably) that saved ME3 was that it wasn't a standalone game but the end of a trilogy with many loved characters that people wanted to see how their story ended.

Yeah, because EA gave them 5 fucking years to make this game man. Come on- at some point enough is enough.

Yes, making games in Frostbite can be difficult.

Yes, EA wanted it out by the end of fiscal year.

Yes, EA made BioWare Montreal use Frostbite.

But y'all know what? They gave BioWare Montreal five years to make this damn thing, they had time, they had resources, they had support. I'm not going to blame EA because of BioWare Montreal's leadership being run by jabronis that work on ideas, concepts and prototypes over 3~ years of goddamn preproduction then try to cram together an open world game in 18 months. This is entirely on them. They had every opportunity to make a solid game in this engine with the time they had available and they fucked it up.

 

[TC McQueen]

But y'all know what? They gave BioWare Montreal five years to make this damn thing, they had time, they had resources, they had support. I'm not going to blame EA because of BioWare Montreal's leadership being run by jabronis that work on ideas, concepts and prototypes over 3~ years of goddamn preproduction then try to cram together an open world game in 18 months. This is entirely on them. They had every opportunity to make a solid game in this engine with the time they had available and they fucked it up.

Honestly, I wish the article on MEA's production troubles went into more detail on the leadership troubles, because it was kind of vague on when Mac Walters took over and why. If it was because Montreal's leadership fooled themselves into thinking they could or had to make a specific kind of game in order to meet the expectations of the fans/critics, then it's entirely possible six months were spent just on trying to make people realize they had to make something that was possible to produce with what they had.

 

[Mindlog]

I will wait until EA or Shinobi can confirm there is no dlc. I find them more credible.

If true, I will be cancelling all my EA preorders and will only get the the next Dragon Age.

I have no reason to doubt him.
And I really don't want to read too much into it, but I'll feel like a jerk and do it anyways. The fact that those recent tweets are pretty direct with certain topics lends credibility to others.

My head canon has already moved on to the Jaardan-Overseer War and the tough decisions the Heleus Council will be forced to make.

 

[dgrdsv]

Well, can't say that I'm shocked to find out that MEA won't get any SP DLC. I mean, they would've announced it already if there were any planned.

At this point, the only Bioware game left which interest me is the next Dragon Age.

 

[EatChildren]

The production troubles articles echoes some stuff I heard and it does make sense. I don't really feel there's any one individual that can be blamed, as it's a multitude of failures, but many of those failures could and should have been squished early on.

And I'm not convinced longer production would have fixed it. When your underlining issues are management, planning, and technical competency, simply adding more time and manpower is not a solution. You might get a better end result, but likely still one plagued with issues.

Andromeda's faults seemingly were due to a lot of time frankly wasted in pre-production, having a vision and building tools which never came to fruition and set the production phase of the project back. When you enter production phase without your vision set in stone, and without a solid vertical slice, and broken and incomplete tools, you've set up a recipe for disaster that's already in the oven by the time people realise the mixture is wrong.

Cancelling DLC is the logical step to squishing the franchise. Obviously never say never, but based on grapevine I'd say Mass Effect is most definitely "on ice" as per rumours which in EA language means fundamentally dead. Licensed, but dead. By the time they might try to revive it there will be other scifis filling the gaps (because I figure it'll be that long), and at best we'll get a remaster port late generation.

With Andromeda it was EA seeing if they could continue this franchise into a new generation. Montreal seemed to feel the same way; a restart for the franchise. Mixed critical and commercial reception sends a message that this investment isn't worthwhile, for a number of reasons, and money spent on Mass Effect's future could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Patryn]

Yeah, I'm of the mind that EA is not at fault here. They gave Montreal plenty of rope to hang themselves, and they hung themselves real good.

Would the game have gotten a better reception if they waited 6 months? Sure. But I don't think Andromeda would have ever reached a 90+ Metacritic. I think, at best, it would simply reach those low 80s that the internal reviews came in at.

I still don't understand how they didn't step back after 1 or 2 years of pre-prod with nothing much to show and rescope to something more reasonable.

Montreal had 5 years to make the game. That is more than enough time to create a new entry to an existing franchise. They just royally blew it.

Pretty much the only thing that I would blame EA for is the absolute horrid job of marketing they did, and I have no idea how much of that was shitty marketing ideas and how much was simply Montreal not being able to provide solid materials (like for the PS4 Pro unveil... seriously, I'm still baffled THAT was all they provided for a first look at the game?)

 

[diaspora]

Yeah, I'm of the mind that EA is not at fault here. They gave Montreal plenty of rope to hang themselves, and they hung themselves real good.

Would the game have gotten a better reception if they waited 6 months? Sure. But I don't think Andromeda would have ever reached a 90+ Metacritic. I think, at best, it would simply reach those low 80s that the internal reviews came in at.

I still don't understand how they didn't step back after 1 or 2 years of pre-prod with nothing much to show and rescope to something more reasonable.

Montreal had 5 years to make the game. That is more than enough time to create a new entry to an existing franchise. They just royally blew it.

Pretty much the only thing that I would blame EA for is the absolute horrid job of marketing they did, and I have no idea how much of that was shitty marketing ideas and how much was simply Montreal not being able to provide solid materials (like for the PS4 Pro unveil... seriously, I'm still baffled THAT was all they provided for a first look at the game?)

Given the game was scrapped together in 18 months after 3~ years of wasted preproduction it might be that EA didn't have much to work with for marketing.