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[mitchman]

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it's a little interesting people are 100% sure this guy will be declared insane again and again like it's just a technicality, despite already been deemed not insane by a judge and psychiatrist.

He's already been deemed sane enough to serve in prison. The only question is whether he is a danger to society. Considering how he planned and executed the bombing and shooting, it's likely they will not trust him enough to ever let him out.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

21 years for killing 77 people? Wtf

 

[SHADES]

I just find our 'modern society' a sham where we have a person who chose to mass murder only then to moan about what games he has access to in prison & that he's actually given a voice.

Where in the human rights act does it state "thou shall have access to games whilst serving a prison sentence"?

I'm from a 'colourful' background & didn't have the best start in life & I've paid for my mistakes, but I've known people in my past who would commit crime knowing that it they were caught they'd most likely raise their quality of living whilst in prison, the old "roof over my head, 3 meals a day, gym, tv" now includes PC's & video games?

It costs the UK government roughly £40k a year to house a prisoner & they wonder why?

Years ago prison actually meant something, it was something to be feared, now it's a live in nursery for society's low life.

Prison should be a place that you never want to go back too, not a place where you know you'll be on a cushy number!

 

[scytheavatar]

21 years for killing 77 people? Wtf

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...s-for-killing-77-people/261532/#disqus_thread

The 21 years is just paper sentence, he can and almost certainly will have his sentence extended longer than 21 years.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

I just find our 'modern society' a sham where we have a person who chose to mass murder only then to moan about what games he has access to in prison & that he's actually given a voice.

Where in the human rights act does it state "thou shall have access to games whilst serving a prison sentence"?

I'm from a 'colourful' background & didn't have the best start in life & I've paid for my mistakes, but I've known people in my past who would commit crime knowing that it they were caught they'd most likely raise their quality of living whilst in prison, the old "roof over my head, 3 meals a day, gym, tv" now includes PC's & video games?

It costs the UK government roughly £40k a year to house a prisoner & they wonder why?

Years ago prison actually meant something, it was something to be feared, now it's a live in nursery for society's low life.

Prison should be a place that you never want to go back too, not a place where you know you'll be on a cushy number!

Couldn't agree more, it's a total joke what the prison system has become in terms of 'human rights' they didn't seem to think of their victims rights when they commited whatever crime they did.

 

[SHADES]

Couldn't agree more, it's a total joke what the prison system has become in terms of 'human rights' they didn't seem to think of their victims rights when they commited whatever crime they did.

Indeed, I mean this scumbag is still claiming the 'activist' role & what remorse has he shown? Where's the victim empathy & what kind of therapy is he undergoing for his actions? These issues should be addressed first before any dialogue takes place regarding his 'toys!'

My Grandad (bless his sole) used to always say "the do-gooder's have a lot to answer for" and I never used to understand that statement, now I get it.

 

[Amir0x]

Couldn't agree more, it's a total joke what the prison system has become in terms of 'human rights' they didn't seem to think of their victims rights when they commited whatever crime they did.

A justice system should not be equal to the ills that they house. It should as always aim to be better. If the standard of justice really is 'eye for an eye', than we are no better than the criminals languishing behind bars.

But more than these basic ethical justifications, a prison system based on rehabilitation works. It's beneficial for the community, for the prison staff, for those who are jailed themselves. And if the only thing about prison is we want to throw away the key and spit at them, then all we do is breed more criminals who end up hurting the ones we love.

The arguments being raised in this topic by the side that believes we should actively dismiss ethical and human rights considerations for prisoners are emotional; reading this topic, not once has anyone attempted to actually argue against the rock solid statistics that proves rehabilitation is beneficial for everyone, including society. Not once has anyone raised a logical and rational argument about why sheer emotional revenge is worth all the horrible shit prison systems like those in the USA or Russia cause to the community.

The only argument so far that anyone has made that has remotely been understandable is that perhaps videogames aren't required for a rehabilitative environment. That's fine, it's not a major point in this discussion honestly. One can provide other ways for prisoners to keep their minds active and engaged. But the point is, prison systems like the one in Norway work extremely well - so well in fact that the detractors are going to have to raise some proof that the alternative is worth it.

 

[Ravensmash]

A justice system should not be equal to the ills that they house. It should as always aim to be better. If the standard of justice really is 'eye for an eye', than we are no better than the criminals languishing behind bars.

But more than these simply ethical justifications, a prison system based on rehabilitation works. It's beneficial for the community, for the prison staff, for those who are jailed themselves. And if the only thing about prison is we want to throw away the key and spit at them, then all we do is breed more criminals who end up hurting the ones we love.

The arguments being raised in this topic by the side that believes we should actively dismiss ethical and human rights considerations for prisoners are emotional; reading this topic, not once has anyone attempted to actually argue against the rock solid statistics that proves rehabilitation is beneficial for everyone, including society. Not once has anyone raised a logical and rational argument about why sheer emotional revenge is worth all the horrible shit prison systems like those in the USA or Russia cause to the community.

Should someone who murdered 77 people in a premeditated terrorist attack be 'rehabilitated'?

I'm not saying the guy should be straight up executed, but wouldn't the money spent towards providing him with education/video games/entertainment be better served on the wider populace or even lesser, petty criminals?

Can you not understand why taxpayers or even the outside population feels aggrieved when they hear cases of criminals boasting of their luxuries or when their main complaints are video games?

 

[Amir0x]

Should someone who murdered 77 people in a premeditated terrorist attack be 'rehabilitated'?

I'm not saying the guy should be straight up executed, but wouldn't the money spent towards providing him with education/video games/entertainment be better served on the wider populace or even lesser, petty criminals?

In my opinion, yes. Even if the person has no chance of release, the attempt should be the rehabilitate if possible. It's safer for prison staff who watch the individual, it's better for fellow prisoners who come in contact with the imprisoned, and it's better for the community at large. All statistics back this up.

Videogames are not necessarily required for rehabilitation, and I understand why that sounds like it's going too far. I mean, that's as purely entertainment driven as many of us associate with, and that doesn't sound like what prison is for. I get it. But we do need to provide many ways for prisoners to keep their minds active and engaged (books, tv, education) so that society as a whole can benefit. No matter how horrific the criminal are, a justice system does not work if we try to make exceptions for those who commit crimes which truly turn our stomachs.

As to your last point, one of the many benefits of a rehabilitative prison system is the ways in which it saves the community immense amounts of money. It's insane how much less rehabilitative prison systems have to spend on the imprisoned over the long term, and how much the community saves on reduced crime, recidivism rates, etc. So if we're talking about giving money back to the community, there's no better way.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

A justice system should not be equal to the ills that they house. It should as always aim to be better. If the standard of justice really is 'eye for an eye', than we are no better than the criminals languishing behind bars.

But more than these basic ethical justifications, a prison system based on rehabilitation works. It's beneficial for the community, for the prison staff, for those who are jailed themselves. And if the only thing about prison is we want to throw away the key and spit at them, then all we do is breed more criminals who end up hurting the ones we love.

The arguments being raised in this topic by the side that believes we should actively dismiss ethical and human rights considerations for prisoners are emotional; reading this topic, not once has anyone attempted to actually argue against the rock solid statistics that proves rehabilitation is beneficial for everyone, including society. Not once has anyone raised a logical and rational argument about why sheer emotional revenge is worth all the horrible shit prison systems like those in the USA or Russia cause to the community.

The only argument so far that anyone has made that has remotely been understandable is that perhaps videogames aren't required for a rehabilitative environment. That's fine, it's not a major point in this discussion honestly. One can provide other ways for prisoners to keep their minds active and engaged. But the point is, prison systems like the one in Norway work extremely well - so well in fact that the detractors are going to have to raise some proof that the alternative is worth it.

I totally agree regarding rehabilitation, but luxuries are not needed for that.

 

[Respawn]

Just sent him a PS4

Spoiler

with Knack

The jokes on you because Knack is actually quite good.

 

[SHADES]

A justice system should not be equal to the ills that they house. It should as always aim to be better. If the standard of justice really is 'eye for an eye', than we are no better than the criminals languishing behind bars.

But more than these basic ethical justifications, a prison system based on rehabilitation works. It's beneficial for the community, for the prison staff, for those who are jailed themselves. And if the only thing about prison is we want to throw away the key and spit at them, then all we do is breed more criminals who end up hurting the ones we love.

The arguments being raised in this topic by the side that believes we should actively dismiss ethical and human rights considerations for prisoners are emotional; reading this topic, not once has anyone attempted to actually argue against the rock solid statistics that proves rehabilitation is beneficial for everyone, including society. Not once has anyone raised a logical and rational argument about why sheer emotional revenge is worth all the horrible shit prison systems like those in the USA or Russia cause to the community.

The only argument so far that anyone has made that has remotely been understandable is that perhaps videogames aren't required for a rehabilitative environment. That's fine, it's not a major point in this discussion honestly. One can provide other ways for prisoners to keep their minds active and engaged. But the point is, prison systems like the one in Norway work extremely well - so well in fact that the detractors are going to have to raise some proof that the alternative is worth it.

Agreed, Prison should be about rehabilitation. I believe a prisons daily routine should consist of rehabilitation(victim empathy etc) work, education and if said prisoner is adhering to these then at the end of the day an hour or two 'down time'.
Unfortunately in most cases that's not the case especially here in the UK. Our government blames funding but if all prisons had some work programme attached to it ie: a factory wing etc then surely funding wouldn't be such an issue.
I also think that prisoners should pay for their tv's , games, luxuries through work as we do in "normal society" the moment they fail to meet those payment then they're removed or a similar loan contract etc, ie ; prisoner wants a tv, prisoners enters an agreement for TV costing £150 & said prisoner has to do 15 days work to pay off TV etc something along those lines anyway.

I'm all for second chances but I've been through the 'system' here & it's fundamentally flawed from the moment you go in to day you come out. Too much time on your hands, not enough positive actions, hardly any work ethic, bare minimum education & that's optional to a certain extent (* this may have changed as it's been over 10 years since my time.)

I was lucky in the fact I had the right people around me at I time when I could of gone one way or another but I'd honestly say none of my rehabilitation was down to the prison system.

 

[SmokyDave]

A justice system should not be equal to the ills that they house. It should as always aim to be better. If the standard of justice really is 'eye for an eye', than we are no better than the criminals languishing behind bars.

But more than these basic ethical justifications, a prison system based on rehabilitation works. It's beneficial for the community, for the prison staff, for those who are jailed themselves. And if the only thing about prison is we want to throw away the key and spit at them, then all we do is breed more criminals who end up hurting the ones we love.

The arguments being raised in this topic by the side that believes we should actively dismiss ethical and human rights considerations for prisoners are emotional; reading this topic, not once has anyone attempted to actually argue against the rock solid statistics that proves rehabilitation is beneficial for everyone, including society. Not once has anyone raised a logical and rational argument about why sheer emotional revenge is worth all the horrible shit prison systems like those in the USA or Russia cause to the community.

The only argument so far that anyone has made that has remotely been understandable is that perhaps videogames aren't required for a rehabilitative environment. That's fine, it's not a major point in this discussion honestly. One can provide other ways for prisoners to keep their minds active and engaged. But the point is, prison systems like the one in Norway work extremely well - so well in fact that the detractors are going to have to raise some proof that the alternative is worth it.

Great post. My kneejerk desire for harsh (and occasionally cruel) punishments is tempered by the fact that reality shows it simply doesn't work. Reality also shows that these 'lenient' justice systems are generally beneficial for all involved.

I understand why people immediately leap to 'kill the animal!', but I can't understand why they stick to that viewpoint when confronted with facts that contradict it.

 

[Pandaman]

I totally agree regarding rehabilitation, but luxuries are not needed for that.

Do you want to put someone in an empty room for 20 years and expect a well adjusted person to come out on the other end? People need things to do with their time and videogames are pretty damned cost efficient in that regard. 10 years ago people would say televisions were a luxury in prison [some people still do]. 50 years ago they said the same thing about books.

plus calling a ps2 a luxury is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

21 years for killing 77 people? Wtf

Read the fuckin thread

 

[remnant]

I'm not for killing him since personally I don't think quickly and painlessly ending a mass murderer's life really helps anything (though the fact he doesn't have a life sentence is appalling), but why the hell is he being given access to video games in the first place? I don't even see how there's a quality of life debate going on here in the first place; proper food, shelter, bathroom, health, etc. are basic human rights, sure, but how does a 1st world luxury like video games factor into that at all?

plus rayman revolution/rayman 2 is great, fuck 'im

Becuase he has a right to them. It's part of his rehab

Brevik is not being punished, so there is no reason to not give him videogames.

 

[Hypron]

I totally agree regarding rehabilitation, but luxuries are not needed for that.

A PS2 is hardly a luxury though.

 

[remnant]

He's already been deemed sane enough to serve in prison. The only question is whether he is a danger to society. Considering how he planned and executed the bombing and shooting, it's likely they will not trust him enough to ever let him out.

So they aren't jailing him because he is insane and can't control himself., They are jailing him because they don't like his views and consider his opinion a danger to society?

the good guys

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

A PS2 is hardly a luxury though.

I wonder if people in the 1920's whined about prisoners getting access to books or something.

 

[Pandaman]

I wonder if people in the 1920's whined about prisoners getting access to books or something.

people whined when prison libraries got federal funding in the states.
and that was the 60s.

 

[Hypron]

I wonder if people in the 1920's whined about prisoners getting access to books or something.

I wouldn't be surprise if some were. I mean, there are people in this very thread that seem to imply the guy shouldn't get anything, so I find it relatively easy to believe that people felt the same way at the beginning of the last century.

Now I could understand the complaints if the prison was giving every single prisoner a PS4 with heaps of games, because that would effectively be a luxury. On the other hand, a PS2? Why not.

 

[ChryZ]

PS2 is one of the best systems ever, way too good for that scumbag, if you ask me.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

A justice system should not be equal to the ills that they house. It should as always aim to be better. If the standard of justice really is 'eye for an eye', than we are no better than the criminals languishing behind bars.

But more than these basic ethical justifications, a prison system based on rehabilitation works. It's beneficial for the community, for the prison staff, for those who are jailed themselves. And if the only thing about prison is we want to throw away the key and spit at them, then all we do is breed more criminals who end up hurting the ones we love.

The arguments being raised in this topic by the side that believes we should actively dismiss ethical and human rights considerations for prisoners are emotional; reading this topic, not once has anyone attempted to actually argue against the rock solid statistics that proves rehabilitation is beneficial for everyone, including society. Not once has anyone raised a logical and rational argument about why sheer emotional revenge is worth all the horrible shit prison systems like those in the USA or Russia cause to the community.

The only argument so far that anyone has made that has remotely been understandable is that perhaps videogames aren't required for a rehabilitative environment. That's fine, it's not a major point in this discussion honestly. One can provide other ways for prisoners to keep their minds active and engaged. But the point is, prison systems like the one in Norway work extremely well - so well in fact that the detractors are going to have to raise some proof that the alternative is worth it.

you haven't responded to my last post yet (made when I was still gumby_trucker).

 

[mitchman]

So they aren't jailing him because he is insane and can't control himself., They are jailing him because they don't like his views and consider his opinion a danger to society?

the good guys

His views are his own and noone tries to take those away from him. But when he expresses his views by killing 77 people, that's going too far. Freedom of expression only goes so far.

 

[krizzx]

Mass killer and he prefers Sony products over all others? This should tell people something.

 

[maquiladora]

Mass killer and he prefers Sony products over all others? This should tell people something.

smh

That's sub-gamefaqs level shit junior.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

A PS2 is hardly a luxury though.

Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously?

The fact that he has 3 square meals a day, rehabilitation, a solid roof and walls around him, a bed to sleep in, a toilet, etc is all a luxury too far for an animal. Make no mistake this man is an animal.

All of that is more than what millions of people around the world have. So yes it sure as hell is a luxury. I don't even know anymore, the scary thing is, that's not the first time it's been mentioned in this thread.

I can see where people come from in regards to not giving the death penalty in a general sense. However I disagree completely in cut and dried cases like this.

I believe it works in cases for petty crimes yes. However for serious crime no. As a taxpayer on the higher end of the scale, I would much rather have my money spent elsewhere to prevent crime rather than on those who have committed crimes.

Whoever wanted sources for repeat offenders to get back into the prison system, do a google search unless you want to wait for 3 weeks as I'm only on a phone for that amount of time. There is plenty of solid statistics and evidence to back this up.

It doesn't surprise, yet still manages to shock me, that in today's society, people still have a massive ignorance for others poor living standards and conditions, especially if it doesn't directly effect them or if they are citizens of another country.

This is my last post in this thread, I'm disgusted at some of the comments in here, and the lack of empathy towards the victims families.

 

[raebodep]

He should be forced to play limbo of the lost forever.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Police reject Breivik torture complaint

Police in Norway said on Monday that they had closed a preliminary investigation into a complaint by mass murderer Anders Breivik that his prison conditions amounted to "serious torture".

The right-wing extremist -- who killed 77 people in a bombing and shooting rampage on July 22, 2011 -- filed a formal complaint in January 2013 against Norway's minister of justice and the director of Ila prison near Oslo where is serving out a 21-year sentence. He has repeatedly warned that he may go on a hunger strike over the issue.

In the complaint, Breivik lamented the lack of activities on offer, countless body searches and an "almost total" ban on expressing himself - all of which, according to his lawyer, violate Norway's law that prohibits acts of "aggravated torture".

"The complaint has been examined in the light of current regulations," police commissioner Indrig Wirum told AFP. "On this basis we have concluded that neither the prison in Ila nor the people mentioned in the complaint are guilty of any wrongdoing."

Breivik's lawyer told AFP that his client "was not surprised".

"He noted that the case has been closed despite significant documentation which demonstrates the violation of European prison regulations and human rights," said lawyer Tord Jordet.

"It does not seem that the police wanted to investigate thoroughly," he added.

Since being incarcerated and regularly moved for security reasons between two prisons -- Ila near Oslo and Skien high security prison in southeast Norway -- the convicted murderer has complained regularly about his living conditions.

On a list of 12 specific demands mailed to prison authorities he asked for an upgrade of his Playstaton 2 games console to a more modern PS3 version and the replacement of a "painful" desk chair with a more comfortable armchair.

On July 22, 2011, Breivik killed eight people in a bomb attack outside a government building in the capital Oslo and later murdered a further 69, most of them teenagers, when he opened fire at a Labour Youth camp on the island of Utøya.

http://www.thelocal.no/20140224/police-reject-breivik-torture-complaint