Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Give him a PS3 box with nothing but an N-Gage inside.
Mass murderer Breivik threatened hunger strike over Rayman Revolution
- Thread starter Blablurn
- Start date
I understand why he did what he did, as misguided as I think he was. Just like how I understand how so many other people wish to kill others in the name of "protecting society", and I think they're similarly misguided. Teaching him to further resent the society that got him where he is isn't going to solve anything.
BishopLamont
Banned
Well said.
Heh, i think I can pretty much agree on that.
Would only add that I believe punishment is not a prerequisite for everyone. I think rehabilitation can work without or almost without punishment, but that punishment alone will yields absolutely mediocre results. Its effectiveness is also probably the best on minor, easily impressionable criminals.
Confinement is what matters when a criminal is not ready to rejoin society. And I feel that alone is already a great punishment.
But I'm nitpicking at this point.
It's one of the worst in the western world. And killing murderers doesn't really help living people.
Yup. Just imagine if all the families of the civilians the USA killed in their wars against Afghanistan and Iraq plotted revenge, that should be totally OK by some people in here.
A state should have the moral high ground and that speaks against mob law, death sentences and torture.
This is an emotional response, not a logical one. And as I've said countless times, I get it. I really do. Few people understand more than me exactly how these sorts of things make people react and feel. I carried that own sort of anger in me for most of my life until i found what true forgiveness meant. And if someone killed my whole family, it would test my standards to the very core. But what I found out what forgiveness meant, it changed me. And when I found that, I began to research what adaptation of that philosophy would mean at the larger scale. In the prison system, this means a true rehabilitative stance.
You try to diminish the idea with sarcasm, but the truth is it works. It has proven to be beneficial to society at large when criminals are released from a rehabilitative prison system (better reintegration into society, massive reduction in recidivism rates, people are more easily able to hold and maintain jobs). It has proven to be CHEAPER to run prisons most of the time based around a rehabilitative standard, so we save tax payers money on average. It has proven to create a safer and more stable environment for inmates, not only dramatically reducing inmate-on-inmate violence, but reducing serious violence against prison staff by sometimes as much as 80% versus the traditional American non-rehabilitative prison.
The thing about prison is that by its nature it degrades the human mind. It turns people who are relatively modest individuals who made simple mistakes into genuine criminals. It endangers everyone. It is dangerous for society, so that when people who aren't murderers and rapists get their parole, they end up committing crimes that are potentially even worse than what they originally were imprisoned for, having been taught the nature of true criminals.
Prison closes in on people, dehumanizes them. The instances of suicide skyrocket, as does mental disabilities of all sorts. Treating this is not only ridiculously expensive, but once again it is dangerous for all involved - including prison staff. So not treating them isn't even an option. Prison systems based around a rehabilitative stance such as Norway spend a mere fraction of what American systems must to house prisoners, because instances of mental disabilities are rarer, prisoner-on-prisoner violence is dramatically reduced (its literally not even a competition), and recidivism rates are amongst the lowest in the world.
In nearly every standard we have in which we can make these comparisons and nearly every study that has been done shows at least some net benefit from moving to a rehabilitative stance.
To date, there has not only been found to be virtually no deterrent for serious criminals if you increase the harshest of punishments (death penalty or even torture for example), but in nearly all these cases, society always receives a net negative from housing prisoners in an inhumane fashion. It costs more, it's more dangerous for all involved, it simply makes no sense. It's illogical.
And for the record, on a purely moral stance, I think it's important we prove we are better than those we imprison. We are not in competition to see who can draw the most blood with someone who killed 77 people. There's no point. Nobody gains anything from such petty revenge. Most people who even get actual revenge in the real world note it does not help them mentally in any way. It simply does not make the crime or the victims go away. Nothing can. So the only logical course of action is to provide a prison system which can benefit the prisoners and society at large in the most dramatic way possible.
Unless you can show an alternative that produces these results, I must side with the one that makes me feel good about myself, but which is also proven to be best for society.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
That is what he actually deserves. Fuck that guy.
I won that as a kid, by making a drawing. Was kinda hard to convince myself it was awesome, but I managed to do so for a short while.
So, complete loss of freedom and at-will human interaction is not a punishment now?
BishopLamont
Banned
Right coz thats what life is about, playing games in a cell and getting food served to you. You fail to see how him being in prison is punishment already, there's no need for more hate or vengeance, at the end of the day he's locked away from society, to put it blunt fuck your feelings, at the end of the day it is the greater good for all that needs to be achieved not the needs of the individual. If all we do is for our own individual needs, we'd get nowhere as a society and human kind as a whole.
I love how to say just a bit of chat and a change of heart, like we don't get the magnitude of his crime and problems? No we clearly get that, but whats done is done, we need to move forward and think on a higher level than simply being just as barbaric as he was when he committed those crimes.
Thats pretty long. In Sweden he'd got a harsh word or two and then they had taken his driver licens.
Resident_UA
Member
It's going to be extended indefinitely. They just have 21 years as max, but all that means is that his case will be reviewed. It's just checks and balances to prevent the government from abusing its power. Seems reasonable.
HerrPalomar
Neo Member
Some of the people here who think he will be free in 21 years should really take a break from gaming and read a newspaper every ones in a while.
Give him a daily massage and a New York steak while you're at it. I mean why not? Why shouldn't he get that either?
A convicted murderer shouldn't get shit. He denied life to 77 people. Life. Do you not understand what it means to take someone's life? How about dozens of lives? And you think he derserves to sit around playing fucking videogames all day?
PS2 and TV is not a god damn human right. It isn't barbaric to take that away from a piece of shit killer.
Rawket Lawnchair
Member
He should get nothing and he deserves nothing.
Keep whining Anders, you strong aryan white european warrior, you.
Keep whining Anders, you strong aryan white european warrior, you.
I'm sure that would come as a great comfort to me, had my children been murdered by the degenerate
"well my kids are dead, but their murderer could be rehabilitated to an extent and society may be made better. I hope he enjoys his life of luxury, and possibility of parole"
BishopLamont
Banned
Being locked away in a cell with videogames as your only form of sanity is a luxurious life now?
The comfort is not in how the murderer is punished, but how one deals with their ill-feelings towards them, whatever those feelings may be. If lets say you kill the murderer and have your revenge, will that get rid of the guilt that you yourself has taken a life? Healing is whats needed to get past anything, not creating even more trouble for yourself, even if you think that brings justice towards the ones you love.
One of the best replies I've seen on Gaf. Unfortunately our prison system won't change. People want "justice" which means degrading those responsible. I mean the statistics don't even need explaining yet people ignore it. You can look up stories about victims families and how each responded. Vengeance doesn't accomplish anything. It just stirs the hate you have and doesn't help you heal in any way.
There is no "improving" Anders Breivik, nor should there be. He is there firstly to protect the society he tried to damage, and secondly as punishment. This is a man that by all standards, logical or emotional, could be degraded to an item that is to be stored. However, the process would be damaging for the people involved in his safe keeping, and to protect them he should be treated humanely.
Computer games, however, are not neccessary for his survival. Neither are movies nor books.
Computer games, however, are not neccessary for his survival. Neither are movies nor books.
Christ I tested on that for 3 months, no man deserves to go through that punishment.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
As have been said numerous times: the penal system in Norway operates with a max sentence of 21 years of preventive detention.
However, this can be extended indefintely by five years at a time by a comitee who at the end of the sentence will determine whether or not the convicted represents a danger to society etc.
In other words, this child murderer will never ever get out. Not a chance in hell.
However, this can be extended indefintely by five years at a time by a comitee who at the end of the sentence will determine whether or not the convicted represents a danger to society etc.
In other words, this child murderer will never ever get out. Not a chance in hell.
The_Endgamer
Member
give him a gun + let him play russian roulette with a mirror!
everyone wins!
everyone wins!
I'm sorry, but even Hitler was still a human. An awful human being, but still a human. That's simply the truth.
Even that person qualifies for human rights. As soon as you stop giving out human rights to every human being, you are opening up cans of worms.
and btw. he killed 77, not 21.
cheddascrambla
Banned
Bring him to the US and set him free in Texas. Won't be long.
No but they're probably a better distraction than leaving him with his thoughts. Not to mention what lack of appropriate levels of stimuli does to a human brain.
HerrPalomar
Neo Member
Thinking that a mass murderer is not a human being is a very dangerous thought process. It is very important to understand that Nazis for example were human beings. These people are not inherently "evil". With the right brainwashing growing up everybody can become "evil".
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Is Norway prison system like sweden? Once he serves 2/3 of the sentence he will be out on parole? Meaning after 14 years of prison he can get out?
akidnamededdy
Banned
He's not even serving one year per innocent life he took, send him a Virtual Boy that only displays the message "KILL YOURSELF" in flashing red and black.
maniac-kun
Member
They should have thrown him in the psychiatry instead of the prison. I dont think he understands what he has done. And people here know nothing about the legal system there. 25 years is the maximum sentece. He will never get out because after the 21 years he has to still serve he will still be locked away since he is a threat to society.
IMO Anders has got a big chance of getting out of prison. He's a quite intelligent, so he can learn to pass those tests after 21y mark. Maybe he won't pass it on the first try, but second or third? He can also write letters for his followers, he can plan another attack staying in prison. I'm a death penalty supporter for murdererers, because only then we can be sure they won't kill anyone else.
There is a dude on the 1st page, who wrote that he could be one of Breiviks targets, and he still wishes him to stay alive in prison and pay medium or high taxes for murderers. Sorry but that is a very naive and detached from reality view, which is similar to the Grizzly Man case.
There is a dude on the 1st page, who wrote that he could be one of Breiviks targets, and he still wishes him to stay alive in prison and pay medium or high taxes for murderers. Sorry but that is a very naive and detached from reality view, which is similar to the Grizzly Man case.
Zatoichi's Cane
Member
so why is this piece of shit still alive?
Its the maximum prison sentence, and once he served it they can extend it. He will never come out.
From the first page:
Breivik is not a bear, he will try to pass those tests, he will learn how to and he will pretend to be emphatic, full of compassion human being. He will get out and kill once again.
Since there is a human committee deciding, and not an automated test, I would say the chances for Breivik to ever defile the society outside of prison with his filthy and psychotic prescence ever again are very, very slim.
And by slim I mean it is not going to happen. He has no rights. It is not a matter of punishment, but one of storage for the better good of the general public.
Pancakes R Us
Member
This made me laugh so much. Hah.
DerZuhälter
Member
Buy him a Xbox One with Titanfall, Battlefield 4 and Call of Duty:Ghosts.
But deny him the mandatory first day patch for the console.
But deny him the mandatory first day patch for the console.
Hand him a Vita and watch him wither from boredom.
jk
He'll spend the rest of his miserable life in prison, isolated and condemned to slow death. A better sentence, IMO.
Wristwatch edition.
GhostTrick
Banned
Well you know, there are actually countries where people doesn't even get such an easy life. Heck I'm sure that in this country, there are homeless people with less good quality of life.
How are you supposed to punish someone if you just lock him up with videogames ?
Justice has three purpose: Bring peace or compensation to victims, punish people who commits crimes but also preventing people from commiting them.
And the last one is important... but I'm sorry, I doubt that being locked away with videogames is such a punishment for what he did. Not every crimes are the same, neither the criminals. That's why such cells must be for less important infractions or crimes, but for mass murderers ? While I also agree with that rehabilitation is important, I also don't think that being sorry will change what has been done. Rehabilitation is important for when someone has done something bad but not terrible, or has done something terrible under circomstances. I can't see the future, but I highly doubt a rehabilitation is possible for that person. Maybe somedays, he'll understand that what he did was terrible, and will even be sorry... but that's the same thing as taking revenge: That won't bring people back. And if you want to avoid such things to happen again, you have to discourage people who'd like to do that.
This entire situation is completely screwed up for me. I played WoW with him on and off for a good three months or so as we were in the same guild on the year he went and did what he did. His political views were fucked up and he went and killed people, but part of me can only remember the Anders who seemed a generally nice person on WoW and never portrayed any signs of wanting to kill people like that.
He may have done what he did but he's still human and him killing himself like some people are suggesting is not going to bring anyone back, it's pointless. Also as that amirox guy said before treating criminals like they're not human anymore does nothing but give the vast majority of them mental illnesses or severe depression which in the case of, especially first time offenders for small crimes a more likely chance that they'll commit crimes again.
He may have done what he did but he's still human and him killing himself like some people are suggesting is not going to bring anyone back, it's pointless. Also as that amirox guy said before treating criminals like they're not human anymore does nothing but give the vast majority of them mental illnesses or severe depression which in the case of, especially first time offenders for small crimes a more likely chance that they'll commit crimes again.
Because in European welfare states prisoners have a better life than most people in the world. I'm pretty sure he also gets paid for being in prison.
Being deprived of one's freedom and being removed completely from society is a pretty big punishment.
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