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Massachusetts to dismiss over 20k of wrongful convictions, caused by one person
- Thread starter Slayven
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Not around here when it comes to sentancing, bud.
ieptbarakat
Member
Should get a day added to the prison sentence per each wrongful conviction.
Not to say she shouldn't get more, just for posterity that even a single day from each wrongful conviction would likely keep her there for the rest of her life.
Not to say she shouldn't get more, just for posterity that even a single day from each wrongful conviction would likely keep her there for the rest of her life.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
If I got get a town's worth of people wrong fully convicted and only get 3 to 5 years I'm popping bottles upon release.
BronsonLee
Member
GAFfers making fun of my verbal tics, how low can you go, I feel threatened
firehawk12
Subete no aware
So do the wrongfully convicted get paid by the state?
Frozenprince
Banned
Nope, MA needs proof of innocence.
So the vast majority of these people have their lives taken from them and get absolutely nothing.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Wow, that sucks. Can they sue the lab or something?
plagiarize
Banned
We don't have for profit prisons in MA.
I work for a Sheriff's office. I wonder how many of our inmates (state facility) will be going home tomorrow. I hope they can get their lives back on track.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
What's really disturbing is how long this review took to release these folks once the fraud was discovered.
Frozenprince
Banned
Many won't.
elrechazado
Banned
Most of these cases are not complete frame jobs of innocent people, guys. These are poisoned evidence that rightfully are required to be thrown out under the "fruits of the poisonous tree" doctrine. So not 20,000 Innocents framed.
That said, the lab person deserves an enormous prison sentence, and it is exactly right that every conviction based on evidence not handled according to law and due process be thrown out.
Frozenprince
Banned
It's irrelevant. Everybody effected or potentially effected by this woman deserves restitution. They were all wrongly convicted, this is fact.
old manatee
Banned
source?
elrechazado
Banned
It's not irrelevant to how the law works. And I'm not sure why you're arguing with me about "deserves", when I was explaining why things are the way they are. Perhaps this will inspire some MA legislators to:
1. Increase penalties for state actors, and remove judicially created immunity doctrines for prosecutors, and
2. Revise the restitution for false conviction statutes.
I'd love every state to do number one especially.
Can you provide a source that indicates over 10,000 of these people would be convicted anyway?
What did he mean by this?
Member
Really reinforces the differences between male and female psychopaths. Who Knows What Evil Lurks in the Hearts of WoMen ?
There's a difference between wanting to cause someone harm with your actions, and not caring if someone gets harmed by your actions. You can rank the morality of them however you want, but the motivation is clearly different even if the results are the same.
She definitely got off light, but I can't say I'm shocked she got a slap on the wrist. Nonviolent malfeasance victimizing minorities? Not the sort of thing that sets the world on fire.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Glancing at her wiki, this chemist dry-labbed samples by eyeball instead of actually testing it.
Holy shit.
This woman deserved a much harsher sentence given that so many lives were ruined in the process.
Holy shit.
This woman deserved a much harsher sentence given that so many lives were ruined in the process.
elrechazado
Banned
Nope, any more than we can find a source that even one was framed. These people however, are literally innocent if their convictions were tossed for evidentiary misconduct.
So I can't speak to these cases specifically, but I've worked in criminal courts in Philadelphia (I worked as an intern for a judge and as an intern with the local public defenders office), and from reading the NYT article (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/18/us/chemist-drug-cases-dismissal.html) this is my best guess/explanation.
When cops arrest someone for drug possession, distribution, etc., they generally use field tests to verify that whatever substance they recovered is actually a drug and not... anything else. These field tests are enough to get over the "probably cause" barrier but not "beyond a reasonable doubt." So basically, field test isn't sufficient to hold up at trial (those tests are supposed to work quickly out in the streets, so you lose some level of accuracy with them, naturally, although they're generally pretty reliable). Rather, the prosecution has to prove during trial that the substance was actually a drug, which involves the crime lab performing more detailed/accurate tests (what this woman's job was). As a practical matter, what happens usually (at least in Philly) is that the crime lab will verify it's a drug and the parties will stipulate to that fact rather than call a crime lab employee to testify about it (stipulating basically means both parties agree to a fact, and they basically read it out loud to the jury/judge).
As you can guess, though, the prosecution has to prove a lot more during trial (or to have leverage for plea bargains) than just that the substance was a drug. For example, they'll have to prove the defendant had the substance, that they had reasonable suspicion to stop and probable cause to search, etc. So on a theoretical level, those facts aren't disturbed, it's pretty much just that they can't really be certain enough that the substances recovered were actually drugs.
Agree, for what it's worth, that these are all wrongful convictions and am glad to see everyone go free.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Way too low of a punishment.
The DAs have selected cases where they believe convictions would still hold without evidentiary misconduct, for instance.
Do you think this one case does not evidence a person was framed?
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ion-reveals/N8GGzFSHAmBxqt0kiSTf1J/story.html
Or these cases?
elrechazado
Banned
I expect there are thousands more egregious than this - what are you arguing here? She was completely reckless and falsified results. It doesn't follow that she framed people. And why does it need to? The allegations here are not of a ramparts-type mass evidence framing. I've already said the results are just as horrendous and the remedy is the right one, so I am not understanding your disconnect.
MightyHedgehog
Member
This sort of crime deserves life with no parole.
I think certifying a legal substance as an illegal substance qualifies as a case of framing someone.
I don't agree or believe that you have evidence that most of these cases would have been convictions if the evidence was not tainted. The DAs have selected cases that will not be dismissed, for instance.
elrechazado
Banned
Ok, that's fine, and I am just as certain that you have no definitive evidence to the contrary. We can agree to disagree about the meaning of the word ""most" in this context.
Since we both agree with the remedy of dismissal, prosecution of the state actors, and restitution where appropriate, I'll go ahead and crack a beer in honor of our brotherhood.
jellies_two
Member
Now consider that Sessions is moving to abolish the government science commission that reviews forensic evidence for correctness.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...a5314b56a08_story.html?utm_term=.a2fc2213dbcc
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...a5314b56a08_story.html?utm_term=.a2fc2213dbcc
finowns
Member
All the lives she affected and only five years, gross.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
So she ended up serving less than 3 years. America is a 3rd world country.
plagiarize
Banned
I know. But I hope most can, because there isn't much else we can do, unless someone sets up a fund for them.
Dem' metrics and employee awards are for real to some. This chick was eyeballing peoples lives. Literally wow.
capitalCORN
Member
Fucking monster. She ruined lives for what? The frugal eyes she saw these lives through is disgusting.
You kidding? It's been a big deal in the Globe and on local news for half a decade now. She fucked up big time.
$$$$$$
20,000 lives ruined.
3-5 years of punishment.
Insane. Fucking insane.
You gotta be a special kind of evil to do this to one person let alone 20,000 people.
That's up to 40,000 parents who had their image of their children dashed as they were put behind bars.
Up to 20,000 significant others separated from their loved ones.
I mean, the human toll that this person created is astronomical.
3-5 years of punishment.
Insane. Fucking insane.
You gotta be a special kind of evil to do this to one person let alone 20,000 people.
That's up to 40,000 parents who had their image of their children dashed as they were put behind bars.
Up to 20,000 significant others separated from their loved ones.
I mean, the human toll that this person created is astronomical.
Wafflecakes
Member
Glad they are getting out. A joke that it took this long.
As to her sentence, I am a believer that prison should exist equally to protect the public and to rehabilitate the person, so I am not sure if I have a problem with it. Sentencing should never be done simply to make the public feel good or to "punish" the person.
Though I doubt the same courtesy was given to the people whose lives she ruined.
As to her sentence, I am a believer that prison should exist equally to protect the public and to rehabilitate the person, so I am not sure if I have a problem with it. Sentencing should never be done simply to make the public feel good or to "punish" the person.
Though I doubt the same courtesy was given to the people whose lives she ruined.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
You just accused 10,000 people of committing a crime despite first hand knowledge of falsified evidence. Is it just a gut feeling?
And yes, if you are inventing evidence that does not exist to help ease along a conviction, you are framing people. I really doubt she'd have kept up the charade as long if all of these tests had been negative.
capitalCORN
Member
But the logistics have to be unprecedented, right?
Inceptional
Member
3-5? What a fucking joke. She should've gotten a year for every single one of those people she fucked over.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
I mean, she ruined 20k lives and broke families. 2.5 years is ok for you?
Wafflecakes
Member
As long as she can never work in the field again to hurt someone else.... yes.
Once again. I never support sentencing designed to punish. That shit is part of how we got here in the first place with our criminal justice system.
Lord of Castamere
Member
I agree, but the problem is the system protecting those in power over those being crushed under it. It just goes to highlight how horrible system we have in place is. The state should be just as liable. I hope they get sued and lose millions. I doubt there's a single other workplace where 20k mistakes would go unchecked. They just didn't care because they liked the results.
We have people rotting in prison for drug offenses that hurt no one. Yet this women is already on parole for something that, potentially, ruined the lives of many. I wouldn't be surprised if she somehow fell upwards too. Horrible system.
Dreams-Visions
Member
And a woman of color. What was her motivation? I don't see anything about it. Did she take the stand in her defense?
I really feel like I need to know why. Why someone would ruin the lives of thousands of people.
And for her sentence: I'm very disappointed that they could only pin her for the 17 counts of obstruction of justice and eight counts of tampering with evidence. Her sentence is a reflection of what they were able to charge her for, no more no less. I assume there will be more litigation to come. Her life will be reasonably ruined, but it's still not enough.
Is the state on the hook for any of this? Civil suits? After all, she was a state employee, right?
I really feel like I need to know why. Why someone would ruin the lives of thousands of people.
And for her sentence: I'm very disappointed that they could only pin her for the 17 counts of obstruction of justice and eight counts of tampering with evidence. Her sentence is a reflection of what they were able to charge her for, no more no less. I assume there will be more litigation to come. Her life will be reasonably ruined, but it's still not enough.
Is the state on the hook for any of this? Civil suits? After all, she was a state employee, right?
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