So when do I start flapping?
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May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!
- Thread starter Volotaire
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So when do I start flapping?
PJV3
Member
You have a weird obsession with flapping.
Never. Everything is fine forever and will continue to be fine until Labour get into power, at which point I'm sure they'll cause another global recession. Then you can start flapping.
Probably estimated from general weak wage increases, and from the many public service workers who've had three years or more of pay rises below inflation or no pay rises at all, including nursing staff restricted to 1% pay rises. Frozen pay and rising living costs makes you worse off. Not everyone or every area is worse off but there are certainly people who are.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Obviously you didn't want to know enough as a cursory Google would have revealed the basis for it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/22/uk-1600-cost-living_n_4644143.html
I'll tell you where they got it from.
Out their ass.
The IFS ripped it to shreds.
With regards public sector workers, would you rather have a pay raise, tax cut or are they both the same thing?
Wrestlemania
Banned
...to shreds!
cjp
Junior Member
PJV3
Member
Oh dear..guardian something. Flapping etc.
jimbobsmells
Member
Careful if you flap too hard you'll fall off your high horse.
so does this thread.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
errr what? Jesus get a grip, attacking people just because they voted for Conservatives.
The fact Labour may become even more right winged is incredibly depressing.
PJV3
Member
Look at what has happened to his sister, not saying he should post stuff like that here but a bit of understanding for people bearing the brunt wouldn't hurt.
Moral Panic
Member
I only really read the Guardian and the BBC so the Guardian makes up my entire basis of what the political left thinks.
But I really think that the constant cry of crises, it's will all go to hell and belittling of their opponents doesn't do Labour and the left any good. People wouldn't have voted back the conservatives in if they weren't feeling optimistic and that things were improving. When you constantly cry wolf you won't be believed when you are right. If you constantly cry "cost of living crises" when people are feeling that things are improving then you can't expect people to believe you when you say you'll make things better, especially when you state that Labour didn't overspend before (I'm pretty sure Keynesian economics states to have a surplus in the boom times).
The same sort of tactic happened with Boris Johnson calling him a buffoon who would ruin the city and it just doesn't do any good. Now the guy s practically bulletproof.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Yeah I do but that was a stupid thing to say.
CyclopsRock
Member
There was a phone in on LBC earlier about, basically, how people have got negative reprisals - abuse etc - over social media for voting Conservative. Another guy said that he runs a local social group for people just to meet and chat (dunno where but he was clearly from the afro-carribean community) and about how so many people in the group sessions would say all these negative things about Tories but then one on one they'd say much more positive things.
Obviously this isn't a problem I suffer from. Bring on the haters!
Obviously this isn't a problem I suffer from. Bring on the haters!
PJV3
Member
We will have the What the right thinks is right act.
Wrestlemania
Banned
It is truly depressing that there are people with seemingly more sympathy for the poor Conservative voters, so afraid to speak their true views in public for fear of those views being challenged by the left, than they have for those actually being marginalised and hugely impacted by the policies being put in place by the party.
CyclopsRock
Member
Tbf isn't that all laws? Or, at least, "what the government of the day thinks is right"? I mean, thats why they get elected, non?
CyclopsRock
Member
They aren't mutually exclusive, but the political discourse being skewered to the point where some people feel like they're somehow at risk for voicing their (apparantly widespread - we aren't talking about fringe BNPers here) beliefs is worrying for everyone. Echo chambers, wherever and in whatever context they develop - give rise to false hope and the inability to internalise failings. The fact that this result was surprising to all of us is a bad thing. It shouldn't be a surprise, because that indicates some flaw in the political discourse.
Maybe if the rainy day fund didn't get spent in the boom things would have been easier.
I wish there was more long term planning on the UK budget but alas it won't.
Lol. Debates with Kitch bring up some of the most anti intellectual shenanigans in any political thread. Half the time he outright disregards facts, figures and posts, other times he brings up magic dust facts of his own that when quizzed on, he can't be bothered to provide evidence for, and then other times his representation of such facts is so heavily skewed it makes no difference either way. Case in point his "ripped to shreds" account of IFS's breakdown, when in reality they've concluded it isn't misleading, and that they ultimately do back Labour's calculations.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Don't forget all the "Here in Doncaster, I have to gut fifteen immigrants just to make it safe 'til tea-time" posts.
If it's wrong it will be changed. The current act has caused needless suffering on the very people it is supposed to protect.
Should we stick with something because it sounds go in theory but not in practice?
PJV3
Member
Human rights are supposed to be above the political fray to some degree.
This one is being cooked up in response to citizens that are annoying the press and government. The original in response to totalitarian regimes, I know which one I prefer.
It may turn out fine
Yes. Between the left-wing media, the left-wing government, and all the left-wing voters in the country, it's clear that there's absolutely a large chunk of the political discourse that is simply missing from public life. My heart breaks for the right-wing, it must be so difficult for them right now.
I provided evidence, mine wasn't from 2 years ago either.
Crack on with the sanctimonious crusade though.
You fit in well.
I assume the dozens of articles on the subject I posted isn't quite enough evidence needed to be a leftie?
Yea, evidence that doesn't support your conclusion or assessment, and instead does the exact opposite. There is no ripping to shreds here. All of them accept that the figure is accurate, IFS states that it is not misleading, but they also mention there's more to it depending on how you come up with the figures, the context behind it, and how it compares to those of the past (naturally post recession via Labour, things also took a dive).
On a less snarky note, I actually do think that the Left has helped create problems like UKIP. If we had a sensible debate about immigration, I'm pretty sure that the Left could beat UKIP's borderline racist arguments. But instead the attitude is, 'if you even have any doubts about immigration, you're a racist'. Which is absurd. But that creates an echo-chamber for parties like UKIP to be the only people to be seen as 'serious' about the 'immigration problem'.
The left has a lot of problems, but I think the absolute worst thing it could do is concede even more ideology to the Tories and move further to the right. We need to go out and convince the public that progressive policies are good, and that we don't want some Eastern Bloc communism, but rather a society that does its best to avoid want and negligence.
The left has a lot of problems, but I think the absolute worst thing it could do is concede even more ideology to the Tories and move further to the right. We need to go out and convince the public that progressive policies are good, and that we don't want some Eastern Bloc communism, but rather a society that does its best to avoid want and negligence.
CyclopsRock
Member
Yeah, yeah. I wasnt asking for sympathy. But they're all powerful elites, and it gives the impression that the people think one thing and all these "establishment" institutions think another. Obviously that's not good for anyone.
PJV3
Member
I'm not even thinking about Labour, tories or economics in this instance. All votes have impact, we own them and the consequences.
I was just saying it's understandable, unlike the normal political insults that get thrown around.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/09/alan-johnson-labour-aspirational-voters-tony-blair
Red flags already. 'Wealth creators' is the right-wing favourite's favourite buzzword. Two days after the election and they're already gearing up for a lurch to the right.
PJV3
Member
I agree on that.
Take housing, we need to build homes but there's no control on the amount of people needing the housing. We could build a million and meanwhile another 300,000 people turn up on top of natural population growth.
The left is supposed to be about this sort of stuff.
David Lammy appeared to suggest his bid for leadership (as mayor or leader) would be based on addressing the belief that Labour supports people who 'sit on their backside' -
Yes, I'm definitely expecting a rightward lurch. Which means they're not winning in Scotland again at the next election barre some serious drama north of the border. If they can't win in Scotland I don't think they can win power without coalition partners either.
I genuinely think we'll see riots again before this next term is over.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
You endorse that poor and vulnerable people should be made worse off so that you feel better about the economy.
Hope Labour don't start learning the wrong lessons here.
Trying to find where they support your point. Some quotes might help.
PJV3
Member
They should let Labour in Scotland become a separate party, Labour have a tough enough job in England.
It states that as of now we are almost at pre crash levels although it dropped during the recession and dropped sharply when labour was in power which they conveniently forgot to mention.
Income tends to drop in a recession funnily enough.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, the Labour Party absolutely needs to be separated. It's the only viable solution at this point; Scottish Labour can go left while English Labour goes right.
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