Media Create Sales: 09/08 - 09/14
- Thread starter PantherLotus
- Start date
The continued success of Pokemon displeases me because continued success breeds lazyness. There are a billion ways that you could mix things up in the pokemon series or improve on it, but success has paralyzed the developer into making very few changes to the formula.
It's actually amazing that there are other games where this isn't the case. Final Fantasy for example is an example of a game that will innovate radically just for the sake of it.
It's actually amazing that there are other games where this isn't the case. Final Fantasy for example is an example of a game that will innovate radically just for the sake of it.
Tiktaalik said:
Dragon Quest is an example of a series where fans have vocally protested changes to the formula, and it could be argued that a portion of the series' appeal is that the basics stay the same...(whereas S-E has publicly stated their vision for the FF series is that there are variations with each game). I think Pokemon would fall somewhere in between.
rykomatsu
Member
909er said:
I said this in another thread too and a few other forums.
Some major retailers are still out of stock of arcade/60gb skus. My preorder from 9/8 still hasn't been fulfilled, and I've received no information on when the next shipment is for amazon.co.jp.
Yodobashi is currently not accepting 360 orders
BIC Camera is currently out of stock
Sofmap is out of stock
eWondergoo is out of stock
Those are the 5 shops I usually try to order game related items from.
My 360 couldn't have rrod'd at a worse time... :/
Vinnk (last week) said:
Seems it was number 2. And as of a few days ago they were still sold out so unless MS has their act together next week 360 sales could be under 1000 again. Any Jgaffers check recently? Has there been a second restock? I will try to check tomorrw in my town.
BishopLamont
Banned
2. [NDS] Quiz Magic Academy DS (Konami) 119,000 / NEW
Konami finally has a DS hit!
Konami finally has a DS hit!
kame-sennin
Member
TunaLover said:
Year on year, Wii sales are not that great. And considering that Mario Kart and Wii Fit were launched this year, I would be very worried if I were Iwata. They need to do something to juice Wii sales in Japan because it doesn't look like it's putting up market leader numbers. Does anyone have a Wii/PS2 comparison chart?
dirtmonkey37
flinging feces ---->
I don't know about you guys, but I think Microsoft has enough Japanese-appealing games to pull off an ad-campaign that demonstrates the console's ability to cater to a Japanese audience.
1. Blue Dragon
2. Lost Odyssey
3. Tales of Vesperia
4. Eternal Sonata
5. Culcept Saga
6. Infinite Undiscovery
7. Dead or Alive 4
8. Ninja Gaiden 2
9. Gundam Games (Masuou whatever)
10. Ikaruga
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Microsoft has (well, NG2's appeal is arguable) so many titles that service that Japanese, I don't understand while this sales trend won't continue. Add to that the Star Ocean 4 "exclusive," along with some other factors working in its favor, and you have a formidable console...
...that's not at all embraced by the Japanese. Trust me, as much as it would make sense at this point for the 360 to be selling in high numbers like this on a regular basis, it's not going to happen next week at all. Sales will regress to 10K and then fall comfortably back to the 2K to 3K a week that we've grown accustomed to over the last couple years. It's just the nonsequitur dynamics of the Japanese game industry (oh, and as much as I hate to admit it, Infinite Undiscovery will likely be 18th on the chart next week...selling as little as 5-10K).
1. Blue Dragon
2. Lost Odyssey
3. Tales of Vesperia
4. Eternal Sonata
5. Culcept Saga
6. Infinite Undiscovery
7. Dead or Alive 4
8. Ninja Gaiden 2
9. Gundam Games (Masuou whatever)
10. Ikaruga
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Microsoft has (well, NG2's appeal is arguable) so many titles that service that Japanese, I don't understand while this sales trend won't continue. Add to that the Star Ocean 4 "exclusive," along with some other factors working in its favor, and you have a formidable console...
...that's not at all embraced by the Japanese. Trust me, as much as it would make sense at this point for the 360 to be selling in high numbers like this on a regular basis, it's not going to happen next week at all. Sales will regress to 10K and then fall comfortably back to the 2K to 3K a week that we've grown accustomed to over the last couple years. It's just the nonsequitur dynamics of the Japanese game industry (oh, and as much as I hate to admit it, Infinite Undiscovery will likely be 18th on the chart next week...selling as little as 5-10K).
はじめよう！RPG!dirtmonkey37 said:
kame-sennin said:
Yeah... you just named TWO games. Despite how huge they are, they're still just TWO games. There's no need for Nintendo to hit the panic button because they know how few games have been released for the system this year. But they also know that with Wii Fit and Animal Crossing: City Folk, there will be FOUR huge games in Japan by the end of the year, and together with Wii Sports and Wii Play, you'll have six of the top 30 software spots in weekly sales guaranteed.
Year on year Wii sales aren't great, but neither are DS sales in Japan. Is it really fair to compare every year to a record-breaking one? Compare ANY system ANY year and it'll look like shit compared to Wii's and DS's last. The only way to go is down... or in Nintendo's case, they just want to see a steady level, which they're getting now.
Iwata doesn't need to worry shit. If they pulled the stunt Microsoft just did in Japan (two big RPGs, price drop, restock) this week, you'd see 200,000 Wiis going off the shelves weekly.
EDIT: From JoshuaJStone in last week's thread...
Wii comparisons: After 92 weeks, Wii is where GBA was at 89.1 weeks (December 1, 20020, where DS was at 69.8 weeks (March 31, 2006), where PS2 was at 97.3 weeks (January 7, 2002), and where PSP was at 152.2 weeks (November 5, 2007).
rykomatsu said:
That really sucks. Things always mess up at the worst time.
I remember your thread, and I've read on 2ch a number of posts claiming Arcades and Elites were sold out, but sinobi is the first reputable (on a large scale) source I've heard about it from. I just wanted to see what the word on the ground is and apparently it's true.
dirtmonkey37
flinging feces ---->
icecream said:
Woah, that's great. Hopefully that materializes into a print-ad campaign for Famitsu, large banners in Shibuya, and some television commercials (sans-"do, do, do"). It just seems tucked away in the underbelly of the internet at this point.
But, putting myself in the shoes of a traditional Japanese gamer for a moment, that web page makes the console a significantly more compelling purchase. Let's hope it catches on.
Oh, and I'm taking a Japanese class right now: could you translate the hiragana in your link into Romaji for me please?
.I think it's ha shi __ yo u, right? I can't quite put my fingre on the character that follows "じ."
rykomatsu
Member
dirtmonkey37 said:Woah, that's great. Hopefully that materializes into a print-ad campaign for Famitsu, large banners in Shibuya, and some television commercials (sans-"do, do, do"). It just seems tucked away in the underbelly of the internet at this point.
But, putting myself in the shoes of a traditional Japanese gamer for a moment, that web page makes the console a significantly more compelling purchase. Let's hope it catches on.
Oh, and I'm taking a Japanese class right now: could you translate the hiragana in your link into Romaji for me please?
I think it's ha shi __ yo u, right? I can't quite put my fingre on the character that follows "じ."
ha ji me yo u
Well, it's a "market leader"...it's just that the console market underperforms the handheld market. Would the PS2 have pulled the same numbers if the GBA had the same crazy hardware and software numbers as the DS? I do agree, though, that a tapering in sales isn't the plan going into the Wii's third year - sales seem to have picked up markedly in the US and Europe (i.e. it's been expanding to a wider audience).kame-sennin said:
I think the bigger worry with the Wii is that it doesn't seem to pull broad software numbers to match its hardware - usually around 5-7 titles in the top 30, and usually the same mainstays. That isn't bad (hey, it's better than the PSP, but that's a really low standard to set) - but nowhere near the levels of DS software dominance. It's probably attributable to the DS userbase disparity (23M+ vs. 6.7M+ for the Wii?), but Nintendo still probably wants a bigger chart presence.
I guess that's a question of what you consider "mixing up", which I won't get into (I mean, it's debatable how much FF has changed in the past few games, apart from FFXII, etc.) I think I was responding more to the idea of it being surprising that games still meet with sales success despite few "innovations" to their gameplay formula. I'd think the reverse would be true - the big selling series are those that hit on a successful formula and make it work (with minor improvements) with each installment, rather than trying to shift things around dramatically each time.HK-47 said:
jgwhiteus said:
I think it's sort of a balancing act. On the one hand, if Sequel 7 is the exact same game as Sequel 6, people will get bored and not one to play it. On the other hand, if Sequel 7 is radically different from Sequel 6, you might pull in some new players, but you'll lose more of your regular players who feel it's not even the same game anymore. Small but significant updates/changes are really just the safest bet, financially speaking.
kame-sennin
Member
Jammy said:
Chill out. This is a sales age thread, and I'd like to discuss sales dispassionately. The bottom line is, Wii Fit and Mario Kart are selling really well, but they are not pushing hardware as well as Wii Sports and Wii Play did. And on that note, Wii Sports and Wii Play are losing some of their hardware pushing abilities. I'm interested in why these things are happening. Also, I never mentioned a "panic button". I said I'd be worried if I were Iwata, and I imagine he is. If a huge game release doesn't juice sales, then from a managers perspective, there's no guarantee that a future release will help the platform.
Jammy said:
The first part is true, but that last line is nonsense. No company wants to maintain sales. Every company is after growth. Now, is it fair to judge Wii by it's record breaking first year? No, but that's the standard they set and that's how investors will judge them. Furthermore, the Wii is breaking boundaries for a video game console. We don't know where the upper limit is, so it makes no sense to accept decent or even good sales. Moreover, if all console sales are down, this is an even bigger concern as it suggests gamer apathy - something which Nintendo has often discussed and is deeply concerned with.
The other issue is that Wii sales are only growing in NA and Europe AFAIK. None of the markets are near saturation, so why is Wii growing in the west and shrinking in Japan? The opposite problem existed for expanded audience games on the DS in its early years, and Iwata dropped the hammer on NOA.
Jammy said:
I have no doubt that Wii can have great temporary sales after a price cut/new colors/big game/ect. I'm talking about long term trends.
Jammy said:
Thanks, but I was looking for the weekly chart with PS2 and Wii's second year on top of each other. Maybe JoshauJStone will post it. Those numbers do show that Wii is not falling too far behind though.
perfectchaos007
Member
360 > Wii in Japan???
HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!
HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!
solid2snake
Banned
Tenbatsu said:
there are not enough .gifs to show my feelings.
Xbox 360:
PS3:
Wii:
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
How does Platinum compare to the first week sales of the other Pokemon games?
kame-sennin
Member
jgwhiteus said:
This is exactly what I was thinking. The only explanation I can think of is that, while the Wii was meant to disrupt the industry, console gaming on the whole is being disrupted by handheld devices. From what I hear, this extends to cell phones and other gadgets (though I'm not very familiar with Japan). If that's the case, then Wii is being disrupted from a lower market which is extremely dangerous. The market for those devices will grow, and the products will become more sophisticated until they can fill the needs of the average console gamer while maintaining all the advantages of a handheld (price, size, portability). It'll be interesting to see how Nintendo responds to this threat in the next two to five years.
As for NA/Europe, I think the disruption is probably slowed by a larger portion of hardcore gamers who would not be satisfied with cell phone or conventional handheld gaming. There is also the popularity of cars in America making gameplay during the work commute difficult.
jgwhiteus said:
I would actually blame this on third parties. Just looking at the general reaction on gaf, it's clear that third parties have not embraced the platform, but more importantly, they have not embraced the platform's philosophy. Putting games on the Wii isn't enough if you don't understand the market Wii is appealing to. I wonder if the CEOs of any third parties could explain why Mario Kart Wii is outpacing Double Dash or why Twilight Princess didn't meet expectations in Japan.
kame-sennin said:
Well, I think part of that is that the most recent "big" game released for the Wii was Mario Kart back in April? Which sort of puts the Wii in the same position as the PS3. No games to draw in the gamer audience means fewer sales. While the Wii still has Wii Sports and it's expanded audience games, the expanded audience is considerably less ravenous than the core audience, so they'll keep buying 20k-30k units week after week selling on the same games, but to really reach numbers like the Wii had last year, it has to have software to appeal to all its various audiences, which it really hasn't had. I don't think Iwata's worried, I think he realizes that the Wii's release schedule has been weak, and I suspect they already have plans to deal with this issue moving forward.
Fact is, it's certainly amusing that 360 has beaten Wii for a week because 360 has historically been in such a dire state in Japan. No one could ever imagine it happening, even with a price drop and a JRPG release in the same week. We all know it's going to drop dramatically next week, but it's fun to see nevertheless.
However, talking of dropping dramatically, what about PS3? MGS4 was supposed to be the big lifeline for the console, the game to bring its weekly sales to at least a constant 20k/week. However, now it's back down to a lower weekly sales figure than ever. I only mention this because the next big lifelines are WKC and FFXIII. But are we going to see another peak and trough after those too? Will DS/PSP/Wii be the only formats with real hardware legs this generation?
However, talking of dropping dramatically, what about PS3? MGS4 was supposed to be the big lifeline for the console, the game to bring its weekly sales to at least a constant 20k/week. However, now it's back down to a lower weekly sales figure than ever. I only mention this because the next big lifelines are WKC and FFXIII. But are we going to see another peak and trough after those too? Will DS/PSP/Wii be the only formats with real hardware legs this generation?
WOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! GO IU! Where are the naysayers? You guys around this week?
I've been saying it for weeks but it has more or less went unoticed. Granted Famitsu has been underestimating the Wii lately, so I'd wait for the MC numbers before you guys start posting the Hell froze over gifs, but people should have been taking notice of this when the 360 was on the rise long before ToV even came out. There was something brewing there and MS made some truly excellent moves to coincide with the games coming out.
While I can understand your pessimism, due to how harsh the Japanese market has been to Microsoft all of these years, and due to how many other times the 360 has seen spikes only to fall back down again, I will have to respectfully disagree with you.
What's happening now is unlike anything that took place before. It's not just one game it is a combination of things. It's the stagnation of the other two consoles, the price drop, the line-up, the third party support and more than anything MS's unbending support of the console over there despite it having such slow sales.
I assure you that even with this GAF-shocking turn of events, the 360's best sales in Japan have yet to come, and while I do not expect it to maintain 30k a week(that would be silly) you can pretty much count the 2-3k a week a thing of the past. It's going to do really well(relatively speaking) over this holiday season with the price drop and The Last Remnant still to come, and the momentum will last up to and through the release of Star Ocean 4.
Did somebody say re-launch?
I've been saying it for weeks but it has more or less went unoticed. Granted Famitsu has been underestimating the Wii lately, so I'd wait for the MC numbers before you guys start posting the Hell froze over gifs, but people should have been taking notice of this when the 360 was on the rise long before ToV even came out. There was something brewing there and MS made some truly excellent moves to coincide with the games coming out.
dirtmonkey37 said:
While I can understand your pessimism, due to how harsh the Japanese market has been to Microsoft all of these years, and due to how many other times the 360 has seen spikes only to fall back down again, I will have to respectfully disagree with you.
What's happening now is unlike anything that took place before. It's not just one game it is a combination of things. It's the stagnation of the other two consoles, the price drop, the line-up, the third party support and more than anything MS's unbending support of the console over there despite it having such slow sales.
I assure you that even with this GAF-shocking turn of events, the 360's best sales in Japan have yet to come, and while I do not expect it to maintain 30k a week(that would be silly) you can pretty much count the 2-3k a week a thing of the past. It's going to do really well(relatively speaking) over this holiday season with the price drop and The Last Remnant still to come, and the momentum will last up to and through the release of Star Ocean 4.
Did somebody say re-launch?
Phife Dawg
Member
I wasn't one of the nay-sayers but speaking of a re-launch seems not really fitting. The 360 will be a very distant No. 3 in the market - that's a given. And if in the long run the performance evolves from "pathetic" to "not-as-pathetic-as-before" it's still nothing of major importance.jimbo said:
From a software developer perspective it could be interesting though. Software sales for big projects haven't been all that good and the strategy was to gain more market leverage in the west (IU and ToV). That pretty much failed. But if the recent situation would lead to more software being sold 360 could occupy that niche regardless. This could bring even more pressure on Sony.
Well jimbo did imagine it happening and it was in the cards.pswii60 said:
That's the way it looks to be right now. I don't expect WK to do all that much for Sony, esp. since the effect will be masked by the year end's sales rise.
Phife Dawg said:
This part I don't understand. Games like IU and ToV are both selling what everyone expected them to, including their publishers. With an increase in popularity and hardware, sales of software will also increase. Remember, it IS a cycle. One feeds the other.
The reason why these games aren't blockbuster sellers in the west is the same reason why they won't be on any console. One, they are highly Japanese, and two they really aren't THAT great. We are not talking FF here. Both ToV and IU seem to be good games, not great, and that's coming from a bunch of starved fans on this forum who unlike the majority of people actually LOVE JRPG's.
But you don't have to look farther than Capcom to see that their strategy works, but they, the Japanese developers STILL have to make a great game, market it, and deliver on it. It's is the developer's responsibility to develop great games for their audience and then let them know about it.
Look at Lost Odyssey. That one paid off huge. Why? It appealed to the western markets, it's a fantastic game, and it was advertised properly.
The_lascar
Member
Paracelsus
Member
jimbo said:Called that too. ToV back in the top 30
I wonder for how long will it have to be in the Top 30 to reach the average of a Tales of from Team Symphonia. To not be sort of a bomba, that is.
Eh, it would take months and months to reach the sales of Ratatosk, figures. >_>
The_lascar
Member
Paracelsus said:
ToV is a bomb now? It will probably never reach that much, but how in the world you call that a bomb is beyond me. It may or may not reach the 200k mark, but that's about as far as I see it going. With IU, The Last Remnant, and SO4 plus what is already released on the 360, ToV has some pretty strong competition and I would hardly put it above some of the others.
Phife Dawg
Member
ToS Wii is supposedly even worse and yet it still outsold both titles with a lot less spend on it. And I bet it'll do better in the west too. A game's quality is not always reflected in its sales.jimbo said:
And I don't think both titles met or will meet the expectations the publishers had for western hemispheres. Rather poor Japanese sales were expected but the western ones should've made up for them. But if software sales in Japan for these types of games pick up it could be a worthy investment still and 360 could get an even biger piece of the (shrinking) pie.
And Lost Odyssey is MS published - a bit of an unfair comparisson to begin with. Plus it crashed horribly in Japan, that's not really an option for a Japanese based studio (unless you're funded by MS of course).
edit:
Oh, forgot that ToS Wii is not even a main-line title too.
Notorious_Roy
Member
146, 144 and 121 weeks... Even if Nintendo stops making new games they will make money for the coming 10 years :lolThe_lascar said:
Paracelsus
Member
jimbo said:
Yes, yes it is. It is indeed a bomba. However you will try to spin it. Valkyria Chronicles is a bomba, Lost Odyssey is a bomba, Eternal Sonata also is, Infinite Undiscovery is certainly going to join them.
It is common knowledge that is a great result for a 360 game in Japan, considered the install base, but a bomba nonetheless.
Look at the previous results from Team Symphonia games, please. Abyss bombed bad in the U.S. (50k?), but sold 556.465 in Japan alone.
Symphonia itself sold more than 700k copies between NGC and PS2, let alone U.S. sales. Even if you consider one platform at time, it's still 350k copies each. (well, 390k PS2 vs 325k NGC, but who cares)
Now, how much should Vesperia sell in America and Europe for make up for Japanese sales? 450k? Where in this world will that happen?
And I'm not even considering how much the game probably costed to them.
How the heck aren't you considering a sales failure a game who will probably never reach 200k mark in Japan is beyond my understanding.
Competition doesn't mean a thing, especially considered it had slightly more than a month to sell properly, all by itself.
If previous Tales installment hadn't sold that much, or if this was a new IP, then yeah, we could try to discuss, but it's not the case. We know how much a main Tales is capable of selling, and this is not the best it can do. This is probably closer to the worst it can do, looking at how much did Symphonia Ratatosk sell.
Since you're asking, my guess is that Sony are working on creating a smaller redesigned PS3 console to go alongside a price drop next year. The current PS3s already have a much bigger chassis than what's really needed for the guts inside (the motherboard was dramatically reduced with the 40GB last year and with the new 80GB's both the CPU & GPU are 65nm). New console bundle with WKC + FF7 BD (w/ FFXII demo) in March(?) would be a nice. Though if I was to put money on it I would guess pricedrop/redesign next September.pswii60 said:
Kurosaki Ichigo
Member
It wouldn't hurt PS3 to get those 80GB SKU with DS3 in Japan already. But I think that's asking SCEJ too much.Wollan said:
Btw, don't burst jimbo's bubble this week, shit, you guys are so cruel.