Media Create Sales: 09/15 - 09/21
- Thread starter PantherLotus
- Start date
jimbo said:
The PS3 is not getting beat by the 360. It got beat for one month. If this starts being consistent, then maybe you might have some sort of point. That's what seems so rediculous about everything you've said. You act like the 360 actually is beating the PS3. This is one month. If this becomes the norm, then you might be on to something. I don't think it will be, but I guess we'll just have to see.
EDIT: Let me add that I think the PS3 is a failure in Japan as well. I think it has potential moving forward, but right now I look at it as a failure. The handhelds and Wii? Success. Next-gen? Am cry.
Gaborn said:
You're right, that is something that shouldn't be overrated.
I assume you mean overlooked, but that's funny, because my response would be that I think you're overrating how important console over console is. Does it work as a goal in some situations, yes. I just highly doubt that prior to the launch of the 360 an exec would say 'if 360 passes the benchmark set by the XBox we will consider it a success'. It's a failure through and through. Less of a failure than XBox? Sure. Still a failure.
donny2112 said:
Donny, come on man. Even WITH MS's backing, Mystwalker doesn't compare to SQUARENIX right now. They are using that company's name to get where they are. Imagine what the COMPANY itself with Microsoft marketing could have done.
And I still stress that was 2 years ago on HALF the user bsae the 360 has now. TWO YEARS. It took 3 years from launch for the Japanese developers to FINALLY come around. It's no freaking surprise.
If the 360 had the Japanese support it has now, AT LAUNCH, and their full backing, there's a strong posibility the 360 would be ahead of the PS3 over there right now. Try to imagine if it was the 360, not the PS3 that launched with future FFXIII, MGS4, RE, as definite titles and possible exlusives for it announced from day 1. ToV would probably sell 400k-500k instead of 150k. So it really is the Japanese developers' fault for not backing the system and MS basically had to bend over backwards for them, to finally get them.
It's simple. Some companies believed in MS's vision, some didn't. The ones that did took a risk, but is now paying off. The ones that didn't hurt MS in Japan, but it's now also coming back around to hurt them. They waited waaaaay too long and now they are in a stale mate position, with BOTH the 360 and the PS3 being failuers. They can blame Sony for their failure with the PS3, but they only have themselves to blame for the 360's failure in Japan.
BishopLamont
Banned
With the sales the 360 have, why would the Japanese give it any more support then they did? That's like expecting the GC to have full third party support from the get-go. Imagine the Wii had full third party support from the start. There's no point in discussing hypothetical. We know how bad the 360 hardware sales are, we know how bad the game sales are for simultaneous PS3/360 launch titles (for 360). There's no incentive for Japanese developers to develop for the 360 exclusively.jimbo said:
Nicktals said:
Denial is a wonderful thing.
Because the 360 IS beating the PS3. You are right, the 360 got its ass wooped in the past, and in terms of LTD it is not, and you are probably right in that the 360 will NEVER come close to the PS3 in Japan, but the fact is, RIGHT NOW it IS BEATING it in Japan(that is the correct/accurate statement as hard as it may be for some to say it). Now whether that will last is anyone's guess and I give you that it IS unlikely over the course of their lifespan.
But before we start talking in definites again...just remember what's happening RIGHT NOW, was just as UNTHINKABLE one year ago, and really even 3 months ago. So is it too much to ask to be a little more open minded than people have been in the past?
Nicktals said:
Actually looking at it from a games perspective which is what sales really lead too anyway(and that IS the main reason WE should even care) I would say when considering the 360's user base in Japan, Microsoft pulled a freaking rabbit out of the hat, because in terms of library and support the Xbox doesn't even scratch the 360. For the 360 to have these type of games on that type of user base, is not a success, you are right....it is an ANOMALY!
BishopLamont
Banned
You sound so bitter. It's not third party's fault that the 360 is failing.jimbo said:
Yeah let's get back to reality here. You're acting like the 360 is beating the shit out of the PS3.jimbo said:
jimbo said:
If the 360 had the RPG support it is getting right now at launch, its launch wouldn't have been such a joke. The PS3 was still a concept, then, though. No one would've seriously predicted that it would fall below 10K a week 6 months after its Japanese launch. The PS3 is in the position it is now because it was the successor to the PS2. If the current mindset being applied to the PS3 and 360 in Japan existed and both consoles were being launched right now (ignoring the Wii), the 360 might have a chance. As is, the PS3 has won the war with the 360 in Japan (minor skirmish as it was), but the 360 still has a chance in this short-term battle. The overall Japanese outcome isn't in doubt, though.
jimbo said:
Imagine if the GameCube had been guaranteed DQVIII, FFX, FFX-2, and FFXII. Things might've been different.
Well, duh! The problem is that these console decisions don't exist in a vacuum. There's a reason DQIX is going to the DS. There's a reason FFXIII has been planned for the PS3 since before the PS3 ever released. What's happened over the past month in Japan can't rewrite decisions made years ago.
jimbo said:
This isn't about vision. This is about no one expecting the PS3 to do as bad in Japan and the U.S. as it has, so companies are scrambling to do what they can to recover. The 360 is just in the right position (only other HD console and really good software sales for the userbase in the U.S.) to reap the rewards of that scrambling.
Enjoy the 360's relative success over the past month in Japan and look forward to what it can do the rest of this year. Don't get so caught up trying to extrapolate that recent performance into an unrealistic outcome.
Nicktals said:
Exactly. And of course it would have mattered. You are right, it should have started back then. It would have been EVEN BETTER than them just having it at the 360 launch. FFXI should have been an XBOX port not a 360 port.
And what I am talking about with these games being ready from launch is:
1. Yeah it would put the 360 and PS3 on even ground in terms of potential and no it doesn't necessarily transfer into early sales, but it helps the image & identity of the console. It's more of a case where having them wouldn't have helped the 360 much, but NOT having them and the whole industry talking about it, for sure HURT the 360.
2. They would have also come out a lot earlier. ToV and IU should have been first or second year titles. A 360 with ToV, IU, BD, LO, MGS4, already as BACKLOG titles right now.....would have seen sales like this back then....and RIGHT NOW....it would be in a much much better position. Right now we should be talking about 3RD and 4TH generation japanese 360 games from these developers.
The fact is a lot of the finger pointing should still be directed back to the developers not offering their full support earlier. Blame MS for their hardware failures, for the poor design of the original Xbox and original Xbox controller, blame them for not having better understanding of the Japanese market and trying some stupid moves with their first party titles, but as far as third party goes...it's mostly on them. MS did just about everything they could short of buying these companies out.
donny2112 said:
But this isn't so much about the 360 vs the PS3. I am strictly talking 360 in of itself and 360 software sales ON the 360. No one would have known the PS3 would be doing so bad right now, but it doesn't change that HAVING those things would have made the 360 sell better than it has without them. And ToV would have launched on a larger user base than it did, same for IU. The PS3 is a perfect example that you don't NEED 10 million units sold to sell 500k copies in Japan. I'm not talking about a HUGE swing. I'm talking about the difference between a 600k user base at the launch of ToV versus something like 1.5 million.
And who is extrapolatng anything? My belief is still the same as yours. This isn't likely to change the final outcome, as far as order goes, but this DOES change the 360's outcome. It SHOULD go on to establish itself as a viable niche console, and a user base made up of hardcore gamers capable of offering developers nice sales. I still see the 360 having to work really hard to reach 2 million units by the end of its life.
Didnt you say the 360 was going to sell 21k this week, Jimbo?
Didnt you mock the shit out of PL for being so wrong? what was his prediction, 14k?
You sound like a pretty desperate 360 fanboy, spouting off this and that, and now the 360 is beating the Ps3! last i checked, Ps3 is still ahead of it
Didnt you mock the shit out of PL for being so wrong? what was his prediction, 14k?
You sound like a pretty desperate 360 fanboy, spouting off this and that, and now the 360 is beating the Ps3! last i checked, Ps3 is still ahead of it
jimbo said:
*sigh*
So you're defining beating by a single week? We can't say month anymore, because cumulative sales obviously don't contribute to the definition of 'beating' that you're clinging to. I'll let ya have it. In 5 years you can look back and say "yeah, but for a while there (since a week is a while, right?) the 360 was REALLY beating the PS3."
It matters absolutely none. Unless it's sustained. It won't be.
EDIT: I like the assertion that I'm denying something. I'm not denying that the PS3 got outsold. I'm stating that it doesn't matter, and that the 360 is still a failure in Japan, and will continue to be. But the GAMES are what matter, and this week will not affect GAMES coming to the system.
Genjikage[B said:]Didnt you say the 360 was going to sell 21k this week, Jimbo?
Didnt you mock the shit out of PL for being so wrong? what was his prediction, 14k?[/B]
You sound like a pretty desperate 360 fanboy, spouting off this and that, and now the 360 is beating the Ps3! last i checked, Ps3 is still ahead of it
There they are:lol Yes I did. Do you feel better?
PS: Funny how people only remember what they want.
Nicktals said:
Nice spin. So it's all based on the definition of IS, right? Well we can sit here and spin it every which way you want to.
But I think everone else gets it.
Since this whole thing got started, with ToV, the momentum has shift, and the 360 has been and is beating the PS3. Now, for how long it's going to stay this way, I don't know. But for now, the 360 is beating the PS3 in Japan.
Just like how every month, in every NPD thread, every time the PS3 beat the 360, people were saying it. Why is it different in Japan?
Nobody needed to point out the LTD of the two. That's known, and no one is contesting the standings, including me. People were talking about that particular period, and in this case we ARE talking about MC 9/15-9/21 as the title says. RIGHT?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I think you owe me some prediction quoting, because you're not a complete fanboy hackjob that shits up these threads just for personal jollies, right jimbo? Why not show a little fairness and try not to get fuckbanned?
jimbo said:
What the hell are you talking about.
You say that total sales, or yearly sales, or year to date sales don't matter. Yet the 360 beat the PS3 for the month because of cumulative sales? Don't you see the flaw in your logic here? If not, I really can't continue with a discussion.
You probably saw people in the NPD threads saying the PS3 beat the 360 for the month because we only get monthly sales figures. Also, you won't find a post of mine in an NPD thread saying that the PS3 is beating the 360. Just because others make incorrect statements doesn't mean you can make them and hope to be right.
And yes, we are talking about THIS WEEK. Which is why I said we can't talk about THE MONTH, and then you bitched about me trying to twist words. Didn't I just say in a previous post that no one is denying that the 360 outsold the PS3 for the week? I'm asserting that it doesn't matter. That the 360 is a failure. That this won't matter at all for the games.
EDIT: Also, everyone else gets it? I don't think I've seen anyone else "get it". Unless you were referring to the now dawning reality that you're a joke character attempting to get a rise out people. If that's the case then yes, I think people are starting to get it.
Genjikage said:
Hey Junior, the only difference between you and I, is that I am NOT a blind fanboy. I have my eyes very wide open to everything that's going on. I am a very educated, informed, and open-eyed 360 supporter and proud of it.
Would you preffer outselling it? Outnumbering it? Whatever word you want to use.
Nicktals said:
How many ways do you want me to say that I am NOT stating that the 360's LTD is beating the PS3's LTD.
YES, I REALISE the PS3's LTD is > than the 360's LTD. Calm down!
909er said:
I was being kind. They're not as abysmal as the 360's level, but sinking to the GameCube's level (even though it'll probably pass the 'cube once Final Fantasy is released) is terrible. It's "respectable" only because it's pretty solidly in second place and has HOPE for growth (not surpassing the Wii, not even threatening it really, but "growth" in that sales may eventually not be horrendous)
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
jimbo said:
DON'T DO THIS.
jimbo said:
What are you stating? Anything? Or simply that, for this single week (and three other weeks in the past), the 360 outsold the PS3? If that's all your saying, then bravo, you're absolutely correct. Good debate.
EDIT: To avoid future comments, let me just say this. You're confusing your tenses. 'Beating' is drastically different from 'beat'. The 360 beat the PS3 for this week. It beat the PS3 for this month. It is not 'beating' the PS3. It is losing by a relatively large margin, regarding sales. These are all facts.
PantherLotus said:
WTF? People do that all the time. Besides, I get personally called out ALL THE TIME WITH UNRELATED statements by you and a buch of others, and I can't do the same? Unless you haven't noticed I didn't give a shit last time I got banned, and I won't give a shit if I get banned for something like that this time either. The rules should apply the same for everyone, and if they don't, it's not me that looks bad.
Hey duckroll where were you last week when they were doing the same to me? besides, since when has QOUTING people's tags become a bannable offense? Especially that one which is USED ALL the time.
That is the ONLY thing I HAVE said this whole freaking time before you took it upon yourself to start twisting words around.
And if the 360 beat the PS3 last week, and beat the PS3 THIS week, then it is ALSO beating the PS3 right NOW, because until the PS3 outsells the 360 again, there is no reason to believe that the 360 isn't selling more than the PS3 right now.
Again, I think you are just dying to find SOMETHING WRONG in my arguments and you are hanging yourself up on WORDING.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Hey Junior, don't speak about about Junior over there, otherwise I've juniorize your ass.PantherLotus said:
And you're getting your frame of context mixed up. In the context of the month (which neither of you specifically stated) one could claim the 360 is 'beating' or has 'beaten' the PS3. In the context of YTD, it has not. And I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.Nicktals said:
But your main point in this entire mess all comes down to:
Sure.Nicktals said:
We don't know the final effect of that just yet.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
PantherLotus in last week's thread said::lol :lol :lol
Next Week's Prediction:
DS: 62k
PSP: 33k
Wii: 28k
360: 13k
PS3: 8k
Where's yours jimbo?
jimbo in last week's thread said:
Reality:
DS Lite 61,242
Wii 29,921
PSP 28,674
Xbox 360 13,777
PS3 8,156
PS2 7,720
You know, in case anybody at home is keeping score.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
^ why didn't you? why are you against selective quoting only now? why are you making baseless statements and not backing them up? where is your prediction for next week? say something real, with real analysis, and not this argumentative bullshit for once. its getting extremely tired.
Just ask him to make a specific claim with substantive numbers but without all of the silly fanboy posturing. His head will explode (again).
Nocebo said:
Just ask him to make a specific claim with substantive numbers but without all of the silly fanboy posturing. His head will explode (again).
charlequin
Banned
jimbo said:
Mistwalker.
PantherLotus said:
:lol
I did have something real, with a real analysis, and an explanation, that you COULDN'T FOLLOW!
Here: This was about 3 pages prior to your prediction last week:
jimbo said:
LINK
But you were not satisfied with that, so I pulled a number out of my ass just like you did the past 2 weeks. Cause you certainly STILL haven't given an explanation to HOW you came up with your figures
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
My work is based on over 99 weeks of data, painstakingly extrapolated into meaningful projections based on data, history, polynomial algorithms, and intelligent discourse. Those few times I am wrong it is because I'm basically unaware of upcoming releases, and I still have over a 96% success rate over time.
You (jimbo), on the other hand, cherry pick a few weeks of data so that you might champion your precious little console and make ridiculous assertions with absolutely nothing to back it up. You don't do analysis, you don't have the data, and you don't make coherent, logical arguments to prove your points. The first and only time you made a specific prediction you were off by 38%.
In case you were wondering, this is my method:
(click for full set)
You (jimbo), on the other hand, cherry pick a few weeks of data so that you might champion your precious little console and make ridiculous assertions with absolutely nothing to back it up. You don't do analysis, you don't have the data, and you don't make coherent, logical arguments to prove your points. The first and only time you made a specific prediction you were off by 38%.
In case you were wondering, this is my method:
(click for full set)
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I'm sure some .gif is appropriate here, but it's really just sad.
