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[Durante]

Pretty shit numbers all around

Nope, 68000 for Ar Tonelico 2 is actually quite good. Better than the first part I think. And it's the only game released that week that I care about, so I'm actually happy with the japanese market for once.

 

[Myke Greywolf]

Definitely a worrying sign for Square. They've backed themselves into a corner with nothing but Final Fantasy to rely upon -- Chrono's dead, Front Mission's basically dead, Mana's been tainted worse than Typhoid Mary, SaGa still puts up healthy numbers but not blockbuster anymore, PE is on cell phones... their once strong stable of franchises has narrowed down to nothing but Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy this month, last month, next month, and so on.

... Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts?

 

[Pureauthor]

Good point. They've already started to whore out the KH franchise as well. Wonder how long that will last.

 

[Haunted]

Zack & Wiki.


And damn, seeing all those FF games mentioned... Square needs to diversify again.

 

[AnimeTheme]

Another thing interesting to be seen next week is the sales performance of Opoona Wii. Shinobi mentioned in his blog that the developers predicted 1m LTD for this game... lol

 

[charlequin]

I think it'll break a million. If it doesn't, then we'll see signs of the burn.

If FF4ds does less than FF3ds, I have to agree with ethelred's assessment: that's a big problem for S-E. This game is getting a much bigger overhaul than 3, they're hyping it extensively, and giving it a better release date; it should be one of the tentpole releases of the holiday season, and if it can't manage that it pretty much means their entire corporate strategy is fucked.

If FF4ds does less than FF7CC, I think Wada's going to be running around like a headless chicken trying to figure out whether to commit suicide first, or stop to clean himself up first from having shat himself.

 

[Pureauthor]

Then it's time for him to bring out the big guns...

FF7remake or bust.

 

[Phoenix Down]

Zack & Wiki.


And damn, seeing all those FF games mentioned... Square needs to diversify again.

i guess it depends on how you look at it.. how much effort is SQ putting into these spin off's Vs. the returns there getting.. im pretty sure there making serious bank as these games require little effort to make

 

[JavyOO7]

no no no no

How about some new IP first. IAWW was a good start. Or maybe let Enix bloosom a bit by bringing out another Star Ocean or osmething. Or just new IP from that side as well.

 

[Phoenix Down]

no no no no

How about some new IP first. IAWW was a good start. Or maybe let Enix bloosom a bit by bringing out another Star Ocean or osmething. Or just new IP from that side as well.

I thought there was a new star ocean comming to PS3?.. and the last remenet or whatever is called is a new IP... it might be good

 

[Rancid Mildew]

Square is still an amazingly diverse company though perhaps they aren't the risk takers they used to be. They did manage to put out IaWW this year and then we're also getting Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery in 2008. I suppose it's sad witnessing the decline from the PS1 and early PS2 days but I won't complain when three big, risky and new (quality?) IPs in two years is more than almost everyone else in the industry. I wonder where all that creative talent went though.

 

[Speevy]

Just out of curiosity, how many units has the DS sold/shipped to date worldwide?

 

[Mrbob]

Fiddy four million.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Managing IP in a way that maximizes profitability is tricky, and Square's not proving to be very good at it. For an ideal model, please see Capcom.

Create a bunch of new IP -> Mega Man is hugely popular, can be leaned on as a tentpole.

Lean on Mega Man, create a bunch of new IP -> Mega Man's popularity wanes as Street Fighter II becomes a hit that can be leaned on as a tentpole.

Lean on SFII, keep making MM games, adjusting budget accordingly, create a bunch of new IP -> SFII's popularity wanes as Resident Evil becomes a hit that can be leaned on as a tentpole.

Lean on RE, keep making MM + SF games as long they maintain profitability, create a bunch of new IP -> RE's popularity wanes as Devil May Cry and Onimusha become huge hits.

and so on. That is how you manage IP. It milks major series accordingly while still acknowledging that returns will invariably diminish over time. There's the blueprint.

 

[Pureauthor]

And it keeps the diehard fans happy as well. Plenty of people have moaned over SE's treatment (or lack therof) of the less prominent franchises.

 

[Error]

heh, FFIV DS will break a million easily.

oh noes, why am I posting here?

 

[botticus]

If FF4ds does less than FF3ds, I have to agree with ethelred's assessment: that's a big problem for S-E. This game is getting a much bigger overhaul than 3, they're hyping it extensively, and giving it a better release date; it should be one of the tentpole releases of the holiday season, and if it can't manage that it pretty much means their entire corporate strategy is fucked.

If FF4ds does less than FF7CC, I think Wada's going to be running around like a headless chicken trying to figure out whether to commit suicide first, or stop to clean himself up first from having shat himself.

In what ways? Seems that there would have been a bigger overhaul coming from NES than from SNES, unless I'm forgetting some big feature changes.

All things being equal, I would be shocked if IVDS didn't outsell IIIDS, but will the recent GBA port be detrimental?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

You really should. Ichigo's trying to do something cute with those numbers. I'll let you try to puzzle it out. Given the dazzling wit you generally display, it should keep you busy for a few years.

It is cute to compare apples to apples rather than every fruit to apples...

 

[donny2112]

will the recent GBA port be detrimental?

GBA Final Fantasy IV Advance 219,391

Looks like FFIVr will only sell 780,609 copies.

 

[charlequin]

Managing IP in a way that maximizes profitability is tricky, and Square's not proving to be very good at it. For an ideal model, please see Capcom.

I don't know if they're exactly ideal -- I think they milk a little too hard, which means some of their IPs die off faster than they need to -- but overall, yes. Capcom has debuted a ton of new IP in the last five (or ten) years, a huge part of it very successful,

In what ways? Seems that there would have been a bigger overhaul coming from NES than from SNES, unless I'm forgetting some big feature changes.

FFIII had some tweaks to the class system (and rebalanced enemy encounters), but otherwise the gameplay is essentially the same. FFIV not only is apparently having a huge portion of scenario that was excised from the SNES version due to space/dev. time concerns restored, but it also features a completely new ability system, more added game content, and other tweaks. It's a pretty ambitious project.

All things being equal, I would be shocked if IVDS didn't outsell IIIDS, but will the recent GBA port be detrimental?

FFIVa sold ~150k in Japan. Even if we assume that every single person who bought that would otherwise have wanted FFIVds but now will not buy it, it's a pretty small impact -- and I suspect that many of those people will double-dip. IMO, the impact of a more popular game + holiday release date + bigger hype + greater release supply is more than enough to overcome ~75-100k lost sales due to the GBA port.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

It is cute to compare apples to apples rather than every fruit to apples...

Except that FFXII has had its "International release". It did quite a bit worse than FFX's. Unless you can make a good case for counting a "Greatest Hits" release as a separate game from the original release, you really shouldn't be misleading people with those numbers, particularly when the real numbers would get your point across just fine.

FFXII, while lower selling than any other recent main series FF, still sold pretty well, and nearly as much as FFX. If you want to persist in using the numbers you posted earlier, the least you could do is make a note below them explaining what you're doing, because if you don't, posters like Phoenix take them for fact and run around spreading misinformation.

 

[tanod]

Managing IP in a way that maximizes profitability is tricky, and Square's not proving to be very good at it. For an ideal model, please see Capcom.

Create a bunch of new IP -> Mega Man is hugely popular, can be leaned on as a tentpole.

Lean on Mega Man, create a bunch of new IP -> Mega Man's popularity wanes as Street Fighter II becomes a hit that can be leaned on as a tentpole.

Lean on SFII, keep making MM games, adjusting budget accordingly, create a bunch of new IP -> SFII's popularity wanes as Resident Evil becomes a hit that can be leaned on as a tentpole.

Lean on RE, keep making MM + SF games as long they maintain profitability, create a bunch of new IP -> RE's popularity wanes as Devil May Cry and Onimusha become huge hits.

and so on. That is how you manage IP. It milks major series accordingly while still acknowledging that returns will invariably diminish over time. There's the blueprint.

1)Generally, beginning of generation = new IP
2)Next, bring sequels to franchises from previous generation.
3)Next, if no mega-hits from new generation IP, create more new IP or create sequels to successful IP.
4)Continue step 3 until generation ends. Feel free to release remakes and compilations so long as the above process is not adversely affected.

Square is skipping steps 1 and 3.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

If you want to persist in using the numbers you posted earlier, the least you could do is make a note below them explaining what you're doing, because if you don't, posters like Phoenix take them for fact and run around spreading misinformation.

I'll continue to do do what I'm doing (cute things, being dishonest, posting disingenuous data...isn't it?) if Phoenix taking it wrong is all that happens...

(No, I don't really care about how posters like Phoenix take my posts...you shouldn't either...)

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I'll continue to do do what I'm doing (cute things, being dishonest, posting disingenuous data...isn't it?) if Phoenix taking it wrong is all that happens...

(No, I don't really care about how posters like Phoenix take my posts...you shouldn't either...)

I put the spreading of misinformation in the same category as willful ignorance. I don't much care for it, and if I can curtail it, I will.

 

[ksamedi]

Slightly of topic, I wonder how well WE LOVE GOLF is going to do for Capcom. Maybe it could be a replacement for Hot Shots Golf because of the slow Playstation 3 sales. I really hope it does well for Capcom.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I put the spreading of misinformation in the same category as willful ignorance. I don't much care for it, and if I can curtail it, I will.

You guys sure get going pretty easily with pretty much nothing. Well, better for you I guess.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

You guys sure get going pretty easily with pretty much nothing. Well, better for you I guess.

It's my philosophy minor mixed in with my stats mentality. Makes me vicious. Mean. Like a badger.

 

[botticus]

GBA Final Fantasy IV Advance 219,391

Yikes, that's all? Nevermind then!

 

[slaughterking]

Slightly of topic, I wonder how well WE LOVE GOLF is going to do for Capcom. Maybe it could be a replacement for Hot Shots Golf because of the slow Playstation 3 sales. I really hope it does well for Capcom.

I've high hopes for this game. There seems everything right about Wii Love Golf, except for the marketing we don't know about yet. But a golf game + Wii + Camelot + quirky Anime style should make a great hit in Japan.

 

[donny2112]

I put the spreading of misinformation in the same category as willful ignorance. I don't much care for it, and if I can curtail it, I will.

Weren't you saying something about Sales-Age tearing itself apart this weekend? I see no problem in comparing the base release of three games that either have or will have followups in the form of International and Budget re-releases. It is probably worth noting that there are followups if they significantly change the total sold, though, but it'd be nice to wait until all versions have the same #/types of followups (e.g. International and Budget releases).

Edit:
From my post on page #21:

Famitsu (Japan-GameCharts + my numbers):

PS2 Final Fantasy X                                        2,325,215
PS2 Final Fantasy XII                                      2,322,329
PS2 Final Fantasy X-2                                      1,960,937

PS2 Final Fantasy X-2: International + Last Mission          288,745
PS2 Final Fantasy X International                            240,940
PS2 Final Fantasy XII International Zodiac                   104,287

PS2 Final Fantasy X (ULTIMATE)                               131,027
PS2 Final Fantasy X-2 (ULTIMATE)                              44,887
PS2 Final Fantasy X/X-2 (Ultimate Hits)                       25,784

From year end charts via The-Magicbox:

PS2 Final Fantasy X (Mega Hits)              159,640 (end of 2003)

 

[Stumpokapow]

You guys sure get going pretty easily with pretty much nothing. Well, better for you I guess.

Kurosaki Guy
Riles threads up for his own kicks
Will be exploded.

It's my philosophy minor mixed in with my stats mentality. Makes me vicious. Mean. Like a badger.

Mister Segata
Solipsist, but loves numbers
Awesome Judo Moves!

Weren't you saying something about Sales-Age tearing itself apart this weekend? I see no problem in comparing the base release of three games that either have or will have followups in the form of International and Budget re-releases. It is probably worth noting that there are followups if they significantly change the total sold, but I don't think that's the case with FFX, FFX-2, and FFXII. (~10% or so?)

Donny Twenty One
A voice of reason on GAF
Needs an avatar

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Weren't you saying something about Sales-Age tearing itself apart this weekend? I see no problem in comparing the base release of three games that either have or will have followups in the form of International and Budget re-releases. It is probably worth noting that there are followups if they significantly change the total sold, though, but it'd be nice to wait until all versions have the same #/types of followups (e.g. International and Budget releases).

It would be nice, for sure, but at that point, you might as well only compare sales of games up to the same amount of time being released, and things like that. There's nothing wrong with presenting the data Ichigo did, but you should at least mention what the data are representing if you don't want to appear deceitful.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

X - 2,325,215
X-2 - 1,960,937
XII - 2,322,329

Yeah, what an unsuccessful game.

1) Those are the original releases. The international releases make the comparison worse.

X-2 International: 289K
X International: 241K
XII International: ~120K last we saw it in the lists?

(Though I see ethelred has provided better totals adding the various versions by now.)

2) I don't mean to say XII was a bomb, but that even a PS2 FF with a fairly clear release path didn't match its direct five predecessors, while XIII will have even more to contend with.

 

[donny2112]

XII International: ~120K last we saw it in the lists?

104K as of September 3-9. I updated my previous post with the number for the International and Budget releases that I could find.

 

[Haunted]

Well! So much for playing this game in the living room. =(

Wait, wait. You're fine with shooting and killing all those guys in the living room, but punching a woman between the legs is stepping over the line?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Riles
Solipsist

Adding disingenuous (about 4th time I had to use firefox to fix the spelling for me), badger and many others....Will you guys stop using words I don't understand? I can't answer if I don't know what you say :/

1) Those are the original releases. The international releases make the comparison worse.

X-2 International: 289K
X International: 241K
XII International: ~120K last we saw it in the lists?

(Though I see ethelred has provided better totals adding the various versions by now.)

2) I don't mean to say XII was a bomb, but that even a PS2 FF with a fairly clear release path didn't match its direct five predecessors, while XIII will have even more to contend with.

I just can't argue with you so yes, International Zodiac Job bombed big time (150k shipment, low sell through, price collapse...). My opinion on the original release is different but it doesn't change anything, FF high-point was PSX and not only it isn't coming back, its probably going to step further away from it.


Btw for completion sake, YSO has Final Fantasy X (Mega Hits) at 199,429.

 

[Rolf NB]

Then it's time for him to bring out the big guns...

FF7remake or bust.

+19 pages

edit: WTF! I jinxed it :\

 

[BishopLamont]

+19 pages

edit: WTF! I jinxed it :\

Media Create Sales 10/16 - 10/22 - featuring FFVIIr

Edit: Shouldn't numbers be up by now?