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[Jammy]

Seems like TvC didnt do so well as expected. People expected the game to do better than this, thats for sure. I know people will say its "niche", but still people wanted more than 100K+ for this game.

Soul Calibur IV did much better despite being on more expensive systems. It sold at least 109,000 copies on PS3 alone.

Soul Calibur IV also underperformed big time on the charts, and being on a much more expensive system that's starved for games (just look at the release list!), that hurts even more than when something like Tatsunoko vs. Capcom underperforms.

When something big budget like SCIV does 100,000 on a game-starved system maybe it's just a sign that people don't play traditional fighters anymore. Especially when something like SSBB does 800,000 opening week.

 

[ksamedi]

As I just told Mark, I think this metric has to have a breaking point, Panther. It's certainly the most important metric, but not the only one.

For instance, four weeks before I release a game my company has developed, if I notice that preorders are very low and consumer interest seems to be nonexistant, I may end up shipping a very small amount because I expect it to sell poorly. And if it does end up selling, say, 70% of my shipped total, then the game has matched my expectations -- specifically, I expected it to do poorly, and it did.

In reality, I think "bomb" should be defined by a complex combination of expectations, profits, and perhaps even revenue, with the first being the most important. That's a very tricky scale to balance, however, and particularly so without real profit/revenue breakdowns for each game.

So I'm usually content to use shipped/sold breakdowns as a reasonable and pragmatic compromise, lacking more detailed information. But it's still a compromise, and I think we have to acknowledge that there is a breaking point where our estimation model breaks down.

You ship what retail orders. you don't decide how much you are going to ship. The retailers decide that. Shipping 35K means retailers called you and ordered 35K from you. This means that yes, TvC has low demand and no Capcom did not expect to sell 35k. We don't know what Capcom expected.

 

[Scrubking]

It could well be the case, but at the moment it seems no-one wants to be the first to risk it. Monster Hunter 3 is going to be an interesting case - will it bring across a section of the gaming audience Wii doesn't command the attention of yet? If so, will they stay for other, smaller releases?

I think the system has to reach a tipping point where the number of quality second- or third-tier releases, combined with a couple of larger first- and third-party blockbusters pulls in the audience that it needs to sell software consistently, but it's getting painful waiting for it to happen.

Who is this audience the Wii doesn't command the attention of yet and what games are available RIGHT NOW for them to buy on Wii that you can know whether it really has their attention?

Also how is the Wii not consistently selling software? And why do you assume these B-range games you talk about would somehow sell better under different circumstances (a console with the hardcore gamers you are implying the Wii doesn't have)?

Quite honestly I don't think there is a problem with any of the platforms because third party traditional games sell poorly on almost all of them

Unfortunately people don't see it that way. No one is questioning the 360 audience over Mirrors Edge and that other game I can't remember.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

People did expect better, I remember in the TvC thread someone said they wouldn't be surprised if it got 100K, but I cant find the post. I know many can spin it alot, but it didn't do well starting out. Of course it being in arcades could be a big reason sales have not been good.

100K? That's REALLY high for a 2D traditional fighting game.

Either way I think we can both agree that this game could have done better. I was expecting a 35k opening.

 

[jamesinclair]

Anyone have last years s ales for this week?

NPD has warped my senses and I dont remember what december japans ales should look like.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Unfortunately people don't see it that way. No one is questioning the 360 audience over Mirrors Edge and that other game I can't remember.

I was mostly referring to Japanese developers/publishers. It seems that they can't sell their games on the PS3, 360, Wii, and at times even the DS. Personally I think they should step out of the year 2002 and observe the successes of Monster Hunter and Persona to see where they need to go to next. I'd imagine most third parties working on local co-op games after the success of Monster Hunter Portable or hip new-wave type games after Persona 3. But all I see is the same old same old stuff for the big hitters and the creativity only go so far with smaller budget games.

 

[Askia47]

100K? That's REALLY high for a 2D traditional fighting game.

Either way I think we can both agree that this game could have done better. I was expecting a 35k opening.

i didnt expect 100K, its what someone else said in the other thread. But i agree it should have done alot better.

 

[Bananakin]

This is ridiculous, people. We all know that games are only successes if they get more than 300k sales. Any less, and it's an abject failure.

"Expectations"...pssht!

 

[cvxfreak]

For what it's worth, it's not like Capcom made TvC's expectations evident in their financial statements for this quarter. They've only done that for the bigger games in the past.

 

[Allan Holdsworth]

Best cover art ever. SERIOUSLY.


IMPRESSIONS??????????????


DAY ONE?????????????


NEW HYPE GAME???????????? (CHEATING ON GIRLS FASHION?????)

Just finished the first level.
It's sorta liked Metroidvania, only broken up in levels. Action platformer, maze like levels, stats, equipment (costumes or something, you can buy them on a shop or you get them after fighting with some penguins).
I got pwned by the boss the first time, but after navigating the menus I equipped myself better and it was easy as pie by spamming the special attack.
Pretty cool, but plaformers are my favorite genre so I'm biased.

 

[norinrad21]

and dissidia and suikoden and tales of hearts and some gundam game

 

[linsivvi]

Next week will be interesting with the 3 versions of Gundam Musou 2 against Dissidia.

 

[JKBii]

I am so happy to see Wii Music sliding off of the top 10.

 

[PantherLotus]

I am so happy to see Wii Music sliding off of the top 10.

does it make your hardcore harder?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Wow, that's a strong start for Taiko. I wonder how it'll fare compared to the DS version, which I think was one of the first 3rd party games to really take off on the DS way back when.

The first Taiko DS was a surprise success with long legs, but it actually didn't release until July 2007.

This is a better first week than either Taiko DS release, though.

EDIT: They were July and April releases, though, so perhaps being beaten by a December launch is less impressive.

100K? That's REALLY high for a 2D traditional fighting game.

When's the last time this happened? I was checking Garaph for some of the obvious names, but that's quite a non-exhaustive method. The most recent from this limited search were from 2002: Marvel vs Capcom 2 and Guilty Gear something something.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

I was mostly referring to Japanese developers/publishers. It seems that they can't sell their games on the PS3, 360, Wii, and at times even the DS. Personally I think they should step out of the year 2002 and observe the successes of Monster Hunter and Persona to see where they need to go to next. I'd imagine most third parties working on local co-op games after the success of Monster Hunter Portable or hip new-wave type games after Persona 3. But all I see is the same old same old stuff for the big hitters and the creativity only go so far with smaller budget games.

New and old IPs need to be promoted on TV if they want them to succeed. That type of thing has faded away this decade and the sales show it.

 

[schuelma]

Looking at software charts, I'd say Namco has done pretty well on Wii, at least compared to most 3rd parties- 6 games over 100K, and 2 (Family Trainer, One Piece) that have probably made it by now.

 

[Dascu]

Looking at software charts, I'd say Namco has done pretty well on Wii, at least compared to most 3rd parties- 6 games over 100K, and 2 (Family Trainer, One Piece) that have probably made it by now.

Yeah, they're raking in the millions with games like Klonoa.

 

[schuelma]

Yeah, they're raking in the millions with games like Klonoa.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

 

[Liabe Brave]

WKS drops next week over there right?

No. Next week's big release for PS3 is Gundam Musou 2. White Knight releases the following week.

Anyone have last years s ales for this week?

December 2nd week 2008
DS -204,800
Wii - 91,600
PSP - 71,500
PS3 - 33,700
X360 - 11,800
PS2 - 6,700

December 2nd week 2007
DS - 222,132
Wii - 170,558
PSP - 184,610
PS3 - 63,720
X360 - 8,561
PS2 - 18,025

There are various confounding factors, such as the PS3 price drop last November, different slate of big releases for Wii, PSP lite being newer, etc. etc. but sales as a whole are down year over year.

 

[JaMarco]

To be fair, there isn't many 3rd party Wii games that deserve to sell better.
And you can't really have a strong software selling environment for AA and A quality games without big AAA releases.

 

[Dascu]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

Sooo.... what are the expectation for Dissidia?

 

[markatisu]

When's the last time this happened? I was checking Garaph for some of the obvious names, but that's quite a non-exhaustive method. The most recent from this limited search were from 2002: Marvel vs Capcom 2 and Guilty Gear something something.

Wow so Marvel vs Capcom 2 barely broke 100k

 

[PantherLotus]

When's the last time this happened? I was checking Garaph for some of the obvious names, but that's quite a non-exhaustive method. The most recent from this limited search were from 2002: Marvel vs Capcom 2 and Guilty Gear something something.

This makes me think of an interesting but potentially impossible addition to garaph: genre. You'd probably have to come up with a limited set of genres, though. RPG, Action, Adventure, Fighter, Puzzle, Non-Game. Or something.

 

[JKBii]

does it make your hardcore harder?

It has nothing to do with hating these non-conventional games. The Wii is my favorite console, I still play Wii Sports, and I like playing a lot of the Wii's casual games. But Wii Music is a bad game. It is something I'd expect from Ubisoft or some other developer trying to cash in on the Wii. I am glad that it's failing because it means Miyamoto will go back to the drawing board and make a great Wii Music 2.

 

[Spiegel]

December 2nd week 2008
DS -204,800
Wii - 91,600
PSP - 71,500
PS3 - 33,700
X360 - 11,800
PS2 - 6,700

December 2nd week 2007
DS - 222,132
Wii - 170,558
PSP - 184,610
PS3 - 63,720
X360 - 8,561
PS2 - 18,025

There are various confounding factors, such as the PS3 price drop last November, different slate of big releases for Wii, PSP lite being newer, etc. etc. but sales as a whole are down year over year.

That week (2007) psp had a new color bundle (red)

The following week psp sold less (171k) than the previous week

Thanks donny


Bets for Dissidia? Anyone?

Mine:

1rst day = 380k
1rst week = 600k

Less than that would be a huge dissapointment (for me)

 

[Oldschool]

Where is Dissidia on Amazon Charts? I cant find it on the TOP 30.

 

[Spiegel]

Where is Dissidia on Amazon Charts? I cant find it on the TOP 30.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B001GXQQTE/

Out of stock?

 

[AniHawk]

How long has it been since the last week when Nintendo systems dominated the top ten?

 

[Frillen]

Will Dissidia keep the DS menace off? Or will the game not matter at all?

It's gonna be a photo finish!

The DS is already 19k infront vs the PSP now, and I actually think the PSP ain't going to outsell the DS this week even with Dissidia. The battle for the YTD is over.

 

[Cipherr]

People did expect better, I remember in the TvC thread someone said they wouldn't be surprised if it got 100K, but I cant find the post. I know many can spin it alot, but it didn't do well starting out. Of course it being in arcades could be a big reason sales have not been good.

100k LTD? That does seem attainable depending on the legs it has. I wouldnt expect it, but its far from completely undoable. Noone was saying 100k first week for a fighter though. Theres no way anyone sane was saying that for a fighter in Japan other than Tekken and Smash.

 

[boiled goose]

i think TvC did ok...ish...

Im just glad it didnt do below 10k opening like a lot of wii games have done...

what have similar games done in japan this generation? im thinking:
SC4
Virtua fighter 5
guilty gear
DoA4
etc.

 

[ccbfan]

The first Taiko DS was a surprise success with long legs, but it actually didn't release until July 2007.

This is a better first week than either Taiko DS release, though.

EDIT: They were July and April releases, though, so perhaps being beaten by a December launch is less impressive.

When's the last time this happened? I was checking Garaph for some of the obvious names, but that's quite a non-exhaustive method. The most recent from this limited search were from 2002: Marvel vs Capcom 2 and Guilty Gear something something.

If you're talking about LTD then games that broke 100k

Melty blood released in 2006
Fist of the North Star release in 2004
Bleach DS 2nd: Kokui Hirameku Requiem released in 2007

Unless you don't count them as traditional fighter but I don't see how these are any less traditional fighter than TvC.

Also there was 3 console versions of MvC2 the PS2 version was the 2nd one, released 2-3 years after the arcade. Any idea what the DC version did.

Another note. The best selling recent fighter is PS2 CVS 2 at 276594. CVS 2 actually came out way after MVC2 did. Its just PS2 MVC 2 was was ported so late that it was ported after CVS 2 was ported. (Both PS2 MVC 2 and CVS 2 were 2nd ports, DC version was the first port)

 

[thestopsign]

If you're talking about LTD then games that broke 100k

Melty blood released in 2006
Fist of the North Star release in 2004
Bleach DS 2nd: Kokui Hirameku Requiem released in 2007

Unless you don't count them as traditional fighter but I don't see how these are any less traditional fighter than TvC.

Also there was 3 console versions of MvC2 the PS2 version was the 2nd one, released 2-3 years after the arcade. Any idea what the DC version did.

Another note. The best selling recent fighter is PS2 CVS 2 at 276594. CVS 2 actually came out way after MVC2 did. Its just PS2 MVC 2 was was ported so late that it was ported after CVS 2 was ported. (Both PS2 MVC 2 and CVS 2 were 2nd ports, DC version was the first port)

He was talking about first week only.

 

[Azelover]

I hope that this game hits the PS3 or 360 too. I'll buy it. I sold my Wii.

It might, though with the low appeal and sales there is a high possibility that it wouldn't. If you consider the game is more of a regional thing, the possibility is even slimmer.

I think it might, but I do hope PS3 and 360 development will take a back seat very soon. I know it probably won't but I believe it's very important for the whole industry and its health throughout the next one year or two, not to say the future itself which will be resource based. There's a chance that it might though which is hopeful.

I haven't purchased a Wii either so it's definitely not about my personal hobby. I actually have a DS(and all last gen systems), and I'm just not in need of any other systems. My time gaming is already well spend on my DS so I can't fathom why I'd need to be buying new systems, let alone HD ones at this point in time. But that's me personally, and I reckon that makes me a little safer at the moment. I hope you haven't lost too much money with your Wii sale because you're probably gonna have to rebuy it at the same price, maybe higher.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

If you're talking about LTD then games that broke 100k

Melty blood released in 2006
Fist of the North Star release in 2004
Bleach DS 2nd: Kokui Hirameku Requiem released in 2007

Unless you don't count them as traditional fighter but I don't see how these are any less traditional fighter than TvC.

Also there was 3 console versions of MvC2 the PS2 version was the 2nd one, released 2-3 years after the arcade. Any idea what the DC version did.

Another note. The best selling recent fighter is PS2 CVS 2 at 276594. CVS 2 actually came out way after MVC2 did. Its just PS2 MVC 2 was was ported so late that it was ported after CVS 2 was ported. (Both PS2 MVC 2 and CVS 2 were 2nd ports, DC version was the first port)

Interesting. But yeah as you can see few games break that. The most recent was Bleach last year, but that was most likely due to it being Bleach (Yes I know Tatsunoko vs Capcom had that surge too) and Melty Blood was most likely due to a console version finally being avaliable. So yeah Tatsunoko could have done better but it's a pretty niche genre.

Anyone have "428" numbers?

It might, though with the low appeal and sales there is a high possibility that it wouldn't. If you consider the game is more of a regional thing, the possibility is even slimmer.

I think it might, but I do hope PS3 and 360 development will take a back seat very soon. I know it probably won't but I believe it's very important for the whole industry and its health throughout the next one year or two, not to say the future itself which will be resource based. There's a chance that it might though which is hopeful.

If only it would be simple as "Let's just take the Wii version exactly how it is and port it to the PS3/360".

 

[mu-chan]

It has nothing to do with hating these non-conventional games. The Wii is my favorite console, I still play Wii Sports, and I like playing a lot of the Wii's casual games. But Wii Music is a bad game. It is something I'd expect from Ubisoft or some other developer trying to cash in on the Wii. I am glad that it's failing because it means Miyamoto will go back to the drawing board and make a great Wii Music 2.

I'll bet you haven't played it. Wii Music is a brilliant game with a steep entry curve (and other flaws) but sits firmly at #2 behind Geometry Wars 2 as my game of the year.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

I had to look at that list before I believed it, its been a while since I saw Nintendo take every spot.

 

[David H Wong]

I'll bet you haven't played it. Wii Music is a brilliant game with a steep entry curve (and other flaws) but sits firmly at #2 behind Geometry Wars 2 as my game of the year.

I obviously can't speak for that guy but I have noticed that of the two groups, "People who hate Wii Music" and "People who have played Wii Music," there is very, very little overlap on the Venn diagram.

 

[ccbfan]

TvC won't do any better on the PS3/360 so even though its probably very easy to port on them , it might not be worth it.

To really get TvC going Capcom needs to do a PS2 port. The question is whether its even possible to downgrade it to a PS2. As much as I hate this fact, even after 3 years of this current gen most of the core gamers in Japan still has the PS2 as their main home console.

edit:

Actually a post SF4 release of TvC could pretty pretty good on the Ps3/360. If any game could get fighting games fans to move next gen SF4 can.

 

[Pachael]

Taiko, like Samba, was a game that had to be made once the Wii controllers were shown. Thanks for being LTTP, Namco!

 

[Andronicus]

Media Create Sales: 12/08 - 12/14

01. [WII] Taiko no Tatsujin Wii (Bandai Namco) - 105,900 / 105,900
02. [WII] Animal Crossing: City Folk (Nintendo) - 97,700 / 587,000
03. [NDS] Kirby Super Star Ultra (Nintendo) - 94,500 / 629,400
04. [NDS] Wagamama Fashion: Girl's Mode (Nintendo) - 63,100 / 341,700
05. [NDS] Penguin no Mondai: Saikyou Penguin Densetsu! (Konami) - 59,000 / 59,000
06. [NDS] Professor Layton and the Last Time Travel (Level 5) - 57,600 / 492,000
07. [NDS] Pokemon Platinum (Pokemon) - 57,500 / 2,066,300
08. [NDS] Rhythm Heaven (Nintendo) - 45,200 / 1,289,400
09. [WII] Wii Fit (Nintendo) - 43,000 / 2,916,900
10. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo) - 34,300 / 1,938,400

__. [WII] Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Cross Generation of Heroes (Capcom) - 24,100 / 24,100

Dsi 173,700
Wii 91,600
PSP 71,500
PS3 33,700
DSL 31,100
X360 11,800
PS2 6,700


copied from BTTB, last thread. Will do full updates tonight.

........No words can describe....

 

[bistromathics]

hrm...well...gratz to level 5 i guess. shame on you japan.

 

[Jonnyram]

OMG @ the Wii apologists.
TvC is a horrible, horrible bomb. Why is that so hard to admit?
You think Capcom paid for the Tatsunoko license so they could sell a whopping 24k in the opening week? Jesus.

 

[bistromathics]

inconceivable.gif

 

[comedy bomb]

OMG @ the Wii apologists.
TvC is a horrible, horrible bomb. Why is that so hard to admit?
You think Capcom paid for the Tatsunoko license so they could sell a whopping 24k in the opening week? Jesus.

Maybe it'll sell 24k a week until the end of time.

 

[jeremy1456]

OMG @ the Wii apologists.
TvC is a horrible, horrible bomb. Why is that so hard to admit?
You think Capcom paid for the Tatsunoko license so they could sell a whopping 24k in the opening week? Jesus.

No, I think they paid for the license to make money off of arcade cabinets.

The Wii port was probably cheap to do.

Jesus. Calm down, and maybe think out your next post a little better.

 

[schuelma]

Taiko, like Samba, was a game that had to be made once the Wii controllers were shown. Thanks for being LTTP, Namco!

Doesn't Taiko just use the usual drum controller?

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

No, I think they paid for the license to make money off of arcade cabinets.

The Wii port was probably cheap to do.

Jesus. Calm down, and maybe think out your next post a little better.

How active is the arcade culture in Japan? Enough to still be profitable after all these years?

 

[Liabe Brave]

I think the performance of Tatsunoko shows pretty specifically that there's a limited audience for fighting games based on nostalgic anime properties, no matter how many potential customers you have. Is that really such a surprise or disappointment?