• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Media Create Sales: Sep 21-27, 2009

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Hcoregamer00 said:
Damn, level 5 is on a roll.

:D

Inazuma Eleven 2 is proving that Layton's insane success is not "lightning in a bottle," that they could develop and turn games into massive franchises. If anything, this makes the possibilities even more endless since they have shown the willingness to take risks that most Japanese publishers are not willing to do.
Cardboard Senki is looking like it could really take off as well. I think it was a really smart choice to put it on the platform that didn't already have Pokemon.

I would normally say Ninokuni has a lot of brand potential, but I kind of doubt we'll be seeing a sequel there.
 

GCX

Member
Nirolak said:
I would normally say Ninokuni has a lot of brand potential, but I kind of doubt we'll be seeing a sequel there.
Yeah, Ninokuni required the time of almost all the staff of Studio Ghibli for over an year and I doubt an opportunity like that will happen anytime soon again since they supposedly have quite many movies in the pipeline (Tale of the Bamboo Cutter by Isao Takahata, a new Goro Miyazaki movie and supposedly 2 new Hayao Miyazaki movies). It was more like a once in a lifetime situation.
 

Opiate

Member
Nirolak said:
Cardboard Senki is looking like it could really take off as well. I think it was a really smart choice to put it on the platform that didn't already have Pokemon

Has this historically been the case? Honest question here. Because -- as an example -- when Halo exploded, I don't think most publishers saw that as a sign to make their major FPS for the Sony and Nintendo consoles. It didn't seem like GTA clones began avoiding Sony consoles after GTA, and so forth.

Again, not saying this choice is wrong. I knew nothing about this game until you mentioned it, and have no plans to buy it. I'm just asking on more general grounds, because it seems to me people tend to make the opposite argument: if a platform already has success with genre [X], then an audience exists for genre [X] and copycat games should follow.
 

apotema

Member
GCX said:
Yeah, Ninokuni required the time of almost all the staff of Studio Ghibli for over an year and I doubt an opportunity like that will happen anytime soon again since they supposedly have quite many movies in the pipeline (Tale of the Bamboo Cutter by Isao Takahata, a new Goro Miyazaki movie and supposedly 2 new Hayao Miyazaki movies). It was more like a once in a lifetime situation.

God bless them
 

duckroll

Member
How badly is Blue Dragon: Ikai no Kyoujuu going to bomb?

For reference, Famitsu first weeks:

Blue Dragon (360) - 82k
Blue Dragon Plus (DS) - 25k

I don't think this new entry can do worse than BDP, but it's certainly not going to sell over 50k imo. What about the rest of sales-age?
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Let's see (first week / LTD):

famitsu
[360] Blue Dragon (Microsoft Game Studios) (07/12/06) - 82.286 / 203.740
[NDS] Blue Dragon Plus (AQ Interactive) (04/09/08) - 25.496 / 58.848

m-create
[360] Blue Dragon (Microsoft Game Studios) (07/12/06) - 80.348 / 139.689
[NDS] Blue Dragon Plus (AQ Interactive) (04/09/08) - 21.174 / 42.693

[NDS] Blue Dragon: Colossal Beast of the Underworld (Namco Bandai) (08/10/09) - ? / ?

Bigger publisher and higher budget from the second but low hype and advertising. Media Create is your friend if you don't want it to really underperform comparing to the first one. I think it will have an opening week 30-40K and a LTD 70-80K
 

Road

Member
Opiate said:
Has this historically been the case? Honest question here. Because -- as an example -- when Halo exploded, I don't think most publishers saw that as a sign to make their major FPS for the Sony and Nintendo consoles. It didn't seem like GTA clones began avoiding Sony consoles after GTA, and so forth.

Again, not saying this choice is wrong. I knew nothing about this game until you mentioned it, and have no plans to buy it. I'm just asking on more general grounds, because it seems to me people tend to make the opposite argument: if a platform already has success with genre [X], then an audience exists for genre [X] and copycat games should follow.
That's the milking logic, but FPS were big and successful on PC and the audience was there when Microsoft decided to put Halo on a console. So who knows what can happen when you try untested waters.

Nevertheless, PSP has a very distinct crowd and I agree I'm not sure it's the best place for Cardboard Senki. Level 5 is trying every trick in the book of how to make new IPs and the success rate has been great so far, so I reckon some failures are due.

Looking at Garaph, it seems the only other RPG franchises created this century that managed to do over 300k on their opening weeks are Kingdom Hearts and Monster Hunter (?) (and Xenosaga if you overlook its connection with Xenogears).
 

duckroll

Member
I don't think you really understand what Cardboard Senki is if you feel it's not a good fit for the PSP. It's not really a RPG, and it's CERTAINLY not like Pokemon. It's not an adventure type game where you go out and collect robots or whatever.

It's a competition based customization and construction type game. Which means you build and customize your own robot, and you want to get parts to customize and personalize it, rather than going out and collecting all robots. The competition form of the game is also more of a multiplayer hook, where you can fight other players and see their designs, either alone or as a team.

Now, looking at what IPs are successful on the PSP, won't you agree that robot games, multiplayer games and customization aspects are extremely popular on the PSP? :p
 

Road

Member
duckroll said:
I don't think you really understand what Cardboard Senki is if you feel it's not a good fit for the PSP. It's not really a RPG, and it's CERTAINLY not like Pokemon. It's not an adventure type game where you go out and collect robots or whatever.

It's a competition based customization and construction type game. Which means you build and customize your own robot, and you want to get parts to customize and personalize it, rather than going out and collecting all robots. The competition form of the game is also more of a multiplayer hook, where you can fight other players and see their designs, either alone or as a team.

Now, looking at what IPs are successful on the PSP, won't you agree that robot games, multiplayer games and customization aspects are extremely popular on the PSP? :p
Ok. I'll take the bait and pay for it. Hehe

If you get past the whole "juvenile" first impression of the game/anime, you can trace that connection with MH and Gundam. That's what I think may be the biggest barrier for its success on the platform.

But we'll see. I just won't be surprised if its sales are nothing to write home about. Personally, though, I want it to succeed. Japan needs it (something that is not DQ, Pokemon, Mario and FF), especially coming from Level 5, which is actually investing the buck loads of money it must be making in new games.
 

ethelred

Member
Hcoregamer00 said:
Inazuma Eleven 2 is proving that Layton's insane success is not "lightning in a bottle," that they could develop and turn games into massive franchises. If anything, this makes the possibilities even more endless since they have shown the willingness to take risks that most Japanese publishers are not willing to do.

It's true, Level-5 is proving that, as a publisher, they're willing to take risks and be a bit creative with the games they're making. But it goes deeper than that. They're also showing that, as a publisher, they're willing to full-throatedly support the market leading platform in a way that most other publishers have, unwisely in my view, not been doing. A lot of the little projects or half-hearted stuff or spinoff games that have been getting put on the DS... it may have made sense for a traditional handheld, but given the actual market success of the DS, I think a lot of these publishers could've been a lot smarter with their software design. Just like if you contrast the way a lot of the Square games (a number of the Final Fantasy spinoffs and some weird little niche games) have struggled to sell with the way Dragon Quest 9 has performed (becoming not only the best selling Dragon Quest, but the best selling Japanese game in the company's history), it seems kind of clear where a number of these errors have come into play. Similarly, the approaches that Konami and Namco, for instance, have taken on it have often been downright weird. And I understand that Capcom's strategy of reaching for the global market more than the Japanese market has been effective for them, and I also understand that they've seen enormous success on the PSP with Monster Hunter, but I think they could've had a lot more success on the DS than they've had as well.

I think that's a huge factor behind Level-5's success. They didn't launch as a publisher and decide to do what most people would've expected, which would be a big PS3 game, but rather they focused on the system that had the strongest market success. What's more, they tailored their games to the strengths and demographics of the platform (coming up with smart ways to tap into the casual elements of the userbase), but they did this without compromising most of their core development principles and without sacrificing very high production values. Then, they supported their games with enormous advertising pushes -- because they weren't side games or spinoffs or cheap quick cash-ins, but serious projects (their first self-published titles, after all) that needed to succeed.

So, you combine all of that with the willingness to do projects that are fairly original and stand out from the crowd (which I think has been the case with all of their announced published efforts so far) and you've got an enormously successful launch as a publisher. Obviously, to large extent most of this was possible because of the goodwill they acquired as a Dragon Quest developer, but they capitalized on that in the smartest ways possible. It's kind of remarkable when you think that their first new game as a publisher is now on the cusp of going platinum (around 950k in sales), its two follow-ups were almost as strong, and it's now cementing the success of a second new core franchise. I don't think it's an understatement to say that they've been one of the smartest Japanese publishers by far this generation.

duckroll said:
I don't think you really understand what Cardboard Senki is if you feel it's not a good fit for the PSP. [...] Now, looking at what IPs are successful on the PSP, won't you agree that robot games, multiplayer games and customization aspects are extremely popular on the PSP? :p

Yeah, there's no question that Cardboard Senki is very, very smartly designed for the platform, just like Layton, Inazuma, and Ninokuni were and are. And just like with Layton and Inazuma, it looks like Level-5's been developing a very clever and innovative marketing approach for Cardboard Senki, too, and I'm sure the advertising push will be very strong. The game will do quite well.

Personally, I'm extremely eager to see what kind of sales Level-5 will attain with Cardboard Senki, Ninokuni, and Fantasy Life. I think all three will do very well, but I'm looking forward to seeing just how well. I find their publishing success pretty fascinating.

As far as Fantasy Life goes, I've said this before, but I think it's pretty clever how they're including an almost identical game for free with Layton 4. A Layton RPG is something they easily could have released into retail on its own, and it would've sold. That they're bundling it with another game prior to launching a similar product from the same developer, to me, indicates that they want to use Layton 4 as a Trojan Horse to get this into as many hands as possible, get people trying it and potentially interested, and then collect a ton of feedback in order to refine Fantasy Life as much as possible to make sure it's good. Aside from the exposure Layton gives it, I think Level-5 recognizes that word-of-mouth based on game quality has been a big factor in its publishing successes and they want to make sure they have that for this game.

And in all, that indicates to me that Level-5 sees the value of being committed to launching another new big, successful brand as greater than the value of releasing a Layton spinoff, getting whatever it would sell (and as I said, I'm sure it'll sell well), and then having the new brand launch not be quite as successful or big as it could have been.
 

duckroll

Member
If there's anything which strikes me as strange, it would be Ushiro. I never really understood the appeal to audience intention for that game, although it was cool to see Level 5 tackle a unique idea we don't really see much of anywhere. Maybe that's why it has been put on the back burner though, so they can better consider how to make the game the best success it can achieve. It does strike me as more of a "artistic" project than any of Level 5's other self-published works though, along with Ninokuni. Of course Ninokuni will have massive appeal based on the sort of connections it has, but it's certainly not a mass franchise/cross media game like Layton and Inazuma are.
 
We don't really know what it looks like now, especially with it being backburnered, but Ushiro struck me as having a similar vibe to the Persona games, so that's probably the level I expect it to occupy.
 

cvxfreak

Member
Even more interesting about Level 5 is how they created an international hit and not just a Japanese one in Layton. They had help from Nintendo, but that's not a guarantee for success by itself.
 

markatisu

Member
cvxfreak said:
Even more interesting about Level 5 is how they created an international hit and not just a Japanese one in Layton. They had help from Nintendo, but that's not a guarantee for success by itself.

Nintendo's help only really worked for America, the game took off quite well in JP and EU without much assistance.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
duckroll said:
If there's anything which strikes me as strange, it would be Ushiro. I never really understood the appeal to audience intention for that game, although it was cool to see Level 5 tackle a unique idea we don't really see much of anywhere. Maybe that's why it has been put on the back burner though, so they can better consider how to make the game the best success it can achieve. It does strike me as more of a "artistic" project than any of Level 5's other self-published works though, along with Ninokuni. Of course Ninokuni will have massive appeal based on the sort of connections it has, but it's certainly not a mass franchise/cross media game like Layton and Inazuma are.
I could see them making an anime out of Ushiro at the least. Not sure how well the game itself will sell though.
 

Shiggy

Member
markatisu said:
Nintendo's help only really worked for America, the game took off quite well in JP and EU without much assistance.

I'd say it didn't work at all in America.
The help in Europe was a grand marketing campaign though - it was their "big" DS title last Christmas.
 
Shiggy said:
I'd say it didn't work at all in America.
The help in Europe was a grand marketing campaign though - it was their "big" DS title last Christmas.

In the UK at least ISTR it was out well before Christmas and it seemed to be pottering along relatively well, but the Christmas ad push from Nintendo really kicked things up and it's been a strong seller since. I suspect that it would have done well without their push, but I think NoE can take some credit for it being such a grand success in Europe.
 

markatisu

Member
Shiggy said:
I'd say it didn't work at all in America.
The help in Europe was a grand marketing campaign though - it was their "big" DS title last Christmas.

How can you even say that, it did almost 90k in its opening month and then Nintendo renewed the advertising last fall with Lisa Kudrow and the sales spiked again returning the game to the Top 20 of the NPD

To say Layton 1 was not successful in America is a lie, it was just not as successful as in the EU and JP.
 

gkryhewy

Member
markatisu said:
How can you even say that, it did almost 90k in its opening month and then Nintendo renewed the advertising last fall with Lisa Kudrow and the sales spiked again returning the game to the Top 20 of the NPD

To say Layton 1 was not successful in America is a lie, it was just not as successful as in the EU and JP.

It's been very successful. Didn't it even return to the Top-10? And unlike MC, Top-10 NPD actually means something :lol
 
Seems to be a Level Five lovefest going on. Considering the success of the Layton games and Inazuma Eleven, earlier this year I was thinking that while they may not be the most successful publisher, so far they must've had one of the tallest floors, since thus far they hadn't published anything to do less than 300K. However, they then doubled their amount of published titles in a short span with multiple Sloane and MacHale / Akira Tago releases, so they've got a tiny floor just like everyone else.
 

Shiggy

Member
markatisu said:
How can you even say that, it did almost 90k in its opening month and then Nintendo renewed the advertising last fall with Lisa Kudrow and the sales spiked again returning the game to the Top 20 of the NPD

To say Layton 1 was not successful in America is a lie, it was just not as successful as in the EU and JP.

I was talking about "successful" in the sense of "European sales-successful" ;)
 
duckroll said:
If there's anything which strikes me as strange, it would be Ushiro. I never really understood the appeal to audience intention for that game, although it was cool to see Level 5 tackle a unique idea we don't really see much of anywhere. Maybe that's why it has been put on the back burner though, so they can better consider how to make the game the best success it can achieve. It does strike me as more of a "artistic" project than any of Level 5's other self-published works though, along with Ninokuni. Of course Ninokuni will have massive appeal based on the sort of connections it has, but it's certainly not a mass franchise/cross media game like Layton and Inazuma are.

I would tend to agree that Ushiro has the least obvious appeal and market positioning of any of their titles.

Ninokuni actually strikes me as a particularly clever publishing choice -- it basically manages to market itself as a "known brand" despite being a completely new IP, just because it has the Ghibli name on it.

Shiggy said:
I'd say it didn't work at all in America.

No, the first Professor Layton has sold at least half a shitload of copies in America now.

Shiggy said:
I was talking about "successful" in the sense of "European sales-successful" ;)

That's just silly.
 

Shiggy

Member
charlequin said:
No, the first Professor Layton has sold at least half a shitload of copies in America now.

I was referring to this statement:
Nintendo's help only really worked for America, the game took off quite well in JP and EU without much assistance.

And that one is simply untrue.
NoE showed way more marketing efforts than than NoA; it was their big Christmas title for the DS and beyond. Whereas it sold more 1.5 million units in Europe after 40 weeks, Layton had sold only around 250.000 units during a similar timeframe. Therefore I came to the conclusion that Nintendo's help in America didn't work at all when compared to that of their European department. It might have been a little bit too harsh as I was neglecting their Christmas push, so I'd say it did not work out as well as in Europe. Are you happy now?

That's just silly.
Why? NoE's marketing campaign for Layton was way more successful - 1.5 mio vs. 0.5 mio.
 

slayzz

Member
Chris1964 said:
Let's see (first week / LTD):

famitsu
[360] Blue Dragon (Microsoft Game Studios) (07/12/06) - 82.286 / 203.740
[NDS] Blue Dragon Plus (AQ Interactive) (04/09/08) - 25.496 / 58.848

m-create
[360] Blue Dragon (Microsoft Game Studios) (07/12/06) - 80.348 / 139.689
[NDS] Blue Dragon Plus (AQ Interactive) (04/09/08) - 21.174 / 42.693

[NDS] Blue Dragon: Colossal Beast of the Underworld (Namco Bandai) (08/10/09) - ? / ?

Bigger publisher and higher budget from the second but low hype and advertising. Media Create is your friend if you don't want it to really underperform comparing to the first one. I think it will have an opening week 30-40K and a LTD 70-80K

Anyone else think it would've done better than 200k if it came out on PS3? BD was a pretty good game. so anyone know how BD did in America?

edit* yes I know its a microsoft published game.
 
Shiggy said:
Therefore I came to the conclusion that Nintendo's help in America didn't work at all when compared to that of their European department.

NoA didn't really provide any "help" upfront. They stepped in to give the game a big push long after it was originally released here, with the Lisa Kudrow ad that drove a huge quantity of new sales for the game.


Because judging success relative only to success in other places is dumb.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
legend166 said:
We should find out the result of the Wii price drop today, right?


In about 12 hours. I predict underwhelmton.
 
The GAF people who has contacts (or work) in videogame shops didn't notice a big bump in the Wii sales, and some of them were japanese.

I don't think that there is a big amount of Wii potential target that didn't buy the console because cost more than 20.000 yens. The price tag hasn't been a problem for the Wii.

It will help in the christmas shopping, because it will be a cheaper gift, but don't expect thousands of people going to the shops to buy the Wii the first day of the price drop.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
ethelred said:
It's true, Level-5 is proving that, as a publisher, they're willing to take risks and be a bit creative with the games they're making. But it goes deeper than that. They're also showing that, as a publisher, they're willing to full-throatedly support the market leading platform in a way that most other publishers have, unwisely in my view, not been doing. A lot of the little projects or half-hearted stuff or spinoff games that have been getting put on the DS... it may have made sense for a traditional handheld, but given the actual market success of the DS, I think a lot of these publishers could've been a lot smarter with their software design. Just like if you contrast the way a lot of the Square games (a number of the Final Fantasy spinoffs and some weird little niche games) have struggled to sell with the way Dragon Quest 9 has performed (becoming not only the best selling Dragon Quest, but the best selling Japanese game in the company's history), it seems kind of clear where a number of these errors have come into play. Similarly, the approaches that Konami and Namco, for instance, have taken on it have often been downright weird. And I understand that Capcom's strategy of reaching for the global market more than the Japanese market has been effective for them, and I also understand that they've seen enormous success on the PSP with Monster Hunter, but I think they could've had a lot more success on the DS than they've had as well.

I think that's a huge factor behind Level-5's success. They didn't launch as a publisher and decide to do what most people would've expected, which would be a big PS3 game, but rather they focused on the system that had the strongest market success. What's more, they tailored their games to the strengths and demographics of the platform (coming up with smart ways to tap into the casual elements of the userbase), but they did this without compromising most of their core development principles and without sacrificing very high production values. Then, they supported their games with enormous advertising pushes -- because they weren't side games or spinoffs or cheap quick cash-ins, but serious projects (their first self-published titles, after all) that needed to succeed.

So, you combine all of that with the willingness to do projects that are fairly original and stand out from the crowd (which I think has been the case with all of their announced published efforts so far) and you've got an enormously successful launch as a publisher. Obviously, to large extent most of this was possible because of the goodwill they acquired as a Dragon Quest developer, but they capitalized on that in the smartest ways possible. It's kind of remarkable when you think that their first new game as a publisher is now on the cusp of going platinum (around 950k in sales), its two follow-ups were almost as strong, and it's now cementing the success of a second new core franchise. I don't think it's an understatement to say that they've been one of the smartest Japanese publishers by far this generation.

You analysis is so superb that all I can do is quote you on it and compliment you on how great it is.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Sony sold about 49,000 units of its PSP in the week ended Sunday, up from 15,000 units a week earlier, while sales of the Wii came to around 32,000 units, compared with 10,500 units in the previous week, ASCII Media Works said.
Medium bump for both. Too bad they don't give PS3 numbers. DS is obviously number 1 again.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
On the one hand that bump is surprisingly low, but on the other I suppose it shouldn't be - Wii was already pretty cheap. I suppose demand wasn't going to be nearly as constrained by price.

I wonder what Nintendo's expectations were. This was probably by far the easiest thing they could do to try and boost sales. It'd been nice and simple I suppose if 'price' was the only factor holding back sales but Nintendo may have a slightly more complicated job ahead of them now.

When does famitsu data become available?
 

DR2K

Banned
thaOwner said:
This doesn't sound too good but then again, the news of the price drop haven't really reach the masses yet. It will increase with time I guess.

With that said, am waiting for Dragona Akehi comment on this.

What do you mean it hasn't reached the masses?
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
gofreak said:
It'd been nice and simple I suppose if 'price' was the only factor holding back sales but Nintendo may have a slightly more complicated job ahead of them now.
You mean until new Super Mario Bros comes out?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
marc^o^ said:
You mean until new Super Mario Bros comes out?

Well, yeah. They seem to be at a point pricing wise where they're going to have to drive sales from content more or less exclusively going forward. Which is slightly more complicated than flicking a pen and cutting prices (for Nintendo it would have been that simple - I'm sure they've had decent hardware margins they could cut into easily enough).
 

DR2K

Banned
thaOwner said:
I mean the news of the price drop ? I mean it hasn't even been over two weeks yet. It's still very 'new'.

Oh so you were just spinning. It's being advertised at all major retailers and websites, something major like national price drops spreads like wild fire, especially in a country so small.
 
Just a quick clarification - the Reuters report says 32k sold to Sunday. Am I right in thinking that isn't a full MC/Famitsu/Dengeki week?
 
Top Bottom