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[freddy]

How do you know these titles didn't help the PS3? Do you have access to an alternate reality where we know how much a system costing 50,000 to 60,000 yen would be selling? Did you miss the part where the PS3 outsold the Wii almost the entire first half of this year because one had a lot or 3rd party titles and the other didn't?

MH3 did help. It provided the typical big title bump. It's just there was nothing else to keep it going and that's where the Wii is failing.

So the PS3 outran the one legged man for half a year? Whoohoo!!
Look I'm tired of arguing back and forth with people who think that the Wii should do what the PS3 has been doing to be successful. It's a pretty lame argument and I'll leave you to it.

The publishers are putting games on the DS because it sells the most games and turns the most profit. It's a portable. The Japanese prefer portable gaming at this stage and to be honest so do I. There's not much other reason as to why ALL the consoles have been underperforming.

If these manufacturers want their home consoles to be more successful than they are currently they have to do something different than what they've been doing the last year or so. The Wii was doing it for a while and I've already outlined the reasons why I think it did that. If they continue the way they are with the same games they've been releasing they will continue to fight for the scraps. The PS3 price cut is a step in the right direction. The Wii should follow.

 

[gerg]

Ah, the weekly "how Nintendo has fucked up" discussion. I hope I'm not too late (and that I don't repeat too many points that have been already made).

On the one hand, I think the Wii's situation in regards to third-party software (and more importantly, in regards to selling to a certain part of the audience) certainly represents a missed opportunity. Nintendo could be doing much better than they are now, and that they are not is the result of the decisions they made at the start of this generation or soon after.

However, to say that they have "blown it" may be an exaggeration. I find it hard to believe that the situation has become much worse than it would have been without the dip in hardware sales that we have seen over the past year-and-a-bit. I don't think that the PS3 Slim will prove to do much for the PS3's sales in the long term, and I also don't think that it will change much in regards to third-party support for the PS3 itself. Clearly there is much up for grabs - and Nintendo's failure would certainly be in wasting the potential to capture this market - but I don't think that it is fair to say that it has all been lost.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I would like to take this point in time to note that I have never claimed to be intelligent.

Eh, you get energetic with your gaming emotions, but I don't think you're particularly wrong in anything you've said. Nintendo could have owned this console gen by a much larger ratio had they done some (reasonable) asskissing.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Answer me this Dragona..

If the Wii has failed so miserably and the PS3 still sells games at an acceptable clip, where are all the PS3 game announcements? It seems that everything coming out of Japan for consoles recently (not much, I know) is being announced for Wii.

 

[Oblivion]

Eh, the Wii situation might suck, but I think it has little to do with Nintendo 'not trying enough' to get third parties on their sides. I've seen the arguments: provide better development tools for their online service, lower royalties, invite other CEOs to their birthday parties, etc. but in the end, that would barely change much of the landscape if at all. Nintendo probably has enough money that they could moneyhat to buy exclusivity for many games, but it most certainly be cost effective. I mean, imagine the amount of hookers and pounds of meth it took to convince Capcom and SE to give them MH3 and DQX?

 

[DNF]

The current discussion of 3rd parties on Wii versus PS3? The 2009 software numbers are useless because most of Wii's software comes from 1st party.

Here, I dug up Famitsu top 100 sellers of 2008, with only Wii/PS3 third party titles:

11. [PS3] Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (Konami) 686,254
31. [PS3] Devil May Cry 4 (Capcom) 310,012
32. [PS3] Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 (Konami) 297,896
37. [PS3] Ryu ga Gotoku Kenzan! (Sega) 270,438
41. [WII] Taiko no Tatsujin Wii (Bandai Namco) 251,083
44. [WII] Deca Sports (Hudson) 241,701
57. [WII] Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World (Bandai Namco) 212,408
59. [PS3] Dynasty Warriors: Gundam 2 (Bandai Namco) 206,438
66. [PS3] Grand Theft Auto IV (Capcom) 195,779
78. [PS3] Dragon Ball Z: Burst Limit (Bandai Namco) 163,010
93. [PS3] Valkyria Chronicles (Sega) 141,589

Total PS3: 2,271,416
Total Wii: 705,192

Now whether you interpret this as poor 3rd party Wii support, or as 3rd party games not selling well on the Wii, well that's up to you. Either way it doesn't look good for Nintendo.

just saying if you wouldn't exclude 2009 (Wii's best selling third-party game) and 2007 (wii's third-best selling third-party game) the gap wouldn't be so big.
if you instead would compare the top 5 or top 10 of third-party ltds for example the ps3 still leads, but the difference wouldn't be as big.

 

[TunaLover]

Answer me this Dragona..

If the Wii has failed so miserably and the PS3 still sells games at an acceptable clip, where are all the PS3 game announcements? It seems that everything coming out of Japan for consoles recently (not much, I know) is being announced for Wii.

Sorry for hickjack your question =P

BASARA 3 now is coming to PS3 too, there you have that Namco-Bandai game Majin (?), and that game from From Sotware, there are other aunouncements, by I don't remember right now. The last announcement that I remember for Wii was Tower of Shadows. All recent as far I know.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

Answer me this Dragona..

If the Wii has failed so miserably and the PS3 still sells games at an acceptable clip, where are all the PS3 game announcements? It seems that everything coming out of Japan for consoles recently (not much, I know) is being announced for ds and psp.

fixed.

 

[jeremy1456]

Well, BASARA 3 now is coming to PS3, there you have that Namco-Bandai game Majin (?), and that game from From Sotware, there are other aunouncements, by I don't remember right now. The last announcement that I remember for Wii was Tower of Shadows. All recent as far I know.

Isn't Basara a series that has always premiered on Sony consoles? Wasn't part 3 always planned for Wii/PS3 from when it was first announced?

 

[markatisu]

Isn't Basara a series that has always premiered on Sony consoles? Wasn't part 3 always planned for Wii/PS3 from when it was first announced?

Plus the Wii is the lead sku, not sure Sony is doing cartwheels over getting a Wii port

 

[TunaLover]

Isn't Basara a series that has always premiered on Sony consoles? Wasn't part 3 always planned for Wii/PS3 from when it was first announced?

The PS3 news came later.

 

[vicissitudes]

just saying if you wouldn't exclude 2009 (Wii's best selling third-party game) and 2007 (wii's third-best selling third-party game) the gap wouldn't be so big.
if you instead would compare the top 5 or top 10 of third-party ltds for example the ps3 still leads, but the difference wouldn't be as big.

You might be right. When I have time I'll look for 2009 so far.

 

[jeremy1456]

The PS3 news came later.

If I remember correctly, wasn't the Wii news actually leaked? That could be why it was 'announced' first.

I'm just not sure that Basara is a good example to use for your argument - it's a big Playstation franchise moved to the Wii and the PS3 is getting a port of it.

 

[spwolf]

just saying if you wouldn't exclude 2009 (Wii's best selling third-party game) and 2007 (wii's third-best selling third-party game) the gap wouldn't be so big.
if you instead would compare the top 5 or top 10 of third-party ltds for example the ps3 still leads, but the difference wouldn't be as big.

yeah but then again you have to set same rules, because if he includes complete 2009, you will get PES again, you will get FF13, even new Gundam game will end up in top 10...

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

fixed.

What the hell are you fixing? We already know this. The question was specifically about consoles.

Sorry for hickjack your question =P

BASARA 3 now is coming to PS3 too, there you have that Namco-Bandai game Majin (?), and that game from From Sotware, there are other aunouncements, by I don't remember right now. The last announcement that I remember for Wii was Tower of Shadows. All recent as far I know.

No problem, though that's a bit incomplete. SB is the only major title I can think of that's been announced for PS3 recently and even that is a Wii port. Wasn't Dynasty warriors 5 announced as Wii exclusive as well?

I mean, if there's a wealth of PS3 exclusives or 360/PS3 Japanese announcements i've missed please feel free to enlighten me, but it seems for the most part PS3 Japanese support has dried up at the moment, the same of which I can't claim for Wii.

 

[TunaLover]

If I remember correctly, wasn't the Wii news actually leaked? That could be why it was 'announced' first.

I'm just not sure that Basara is a good example to use for your argument - it's a big Playstation franchise moved to the Wii and the PS3 is getting a port of it.

My argument comes to list some recent announcements, not rank the quality of such software. And there ''more'' recent announcements for PS3/360 than Wii, maybe Nintendo is holding some NDA there, but who knows...

 

[markatisu]

No problem, though that's a bit incomplete. SB is the only major title I can think of that's been announced for PS3 recently. Wasn't Dynasty warriors 5 announced as Wii exclusive as well?

I mean, if there's a wealth of PS3 exclusives or 360/PS3 Japanese announcements i've missed please feel free to enlighten me, but it seems for the most part PS3 Japanese support has dried up at the moment, the same of which I can't claim for Wii.

Yeah its something people seem to be avoiding, when the PS3 was doing really well on the back of RE5, and other hits earlier this year there was talk things would not shift to the Wii.

Well things have not remained with the PS3 and instead have all went to the PSP and DS, every month we see Famitsu talk about new PSP and DS games.

The 2 biggest games for the PS3 we have been waiting forever for, the two biggest games for the Wii were announced less than 6 months ago.

I am with Deacon, if the PS3 is where its at for home consoles then why does it seem that nothing is coming just like the Wii.

 

[Oldschool]

PSP will get new colors bundled with Monster Hunter this week, so it wont hit it´s lowest weekly sales anytime soon.

 

[jeremy1456]

My argument comes to list some recent announcements, not rank the quality of such software. And there ''more'' recent announcements for PS3/360 than Wii, maybe Nintendo is holding some NDA there, but who knows...

Their conference is coming up. Every year they announce big third party games there (last year was Tales of Graces and Samurai Warriors 3, the previous year had Monster Hunter 3) so I imagine this year they will have a lot of stuff.

 

[donny2112]

Wasn't Dynasty warriors 5 announced as Wii exclusive as well?

Do you mean Samurai Warriors 3?

 

[TunaLover]

I mean, if there's a wealth of PS3 exclusives or 360/PS3 Japanese announcements i've missed please feel free to enlighten me, but it seems for the most part PS3 Japanese support has dried up at the moment, the same of which I can't claim for Wii.

Again, I'm not judging quality here, just plain cold announcements, TBH I don't remember the titles names, but you can check the latest Famitsu threads, Wii announcements has been much less that I used to see on those threads, but again, who knows, a Nintendo event is around the corner a better moment to 3rd parties drop some more info about Wii games.

 

[Chris1964]

The current discussion of 3rd parties on Wii versus PS3? The 2009 software numbers are useless because most of Wii's software comes from 1st party.

Here, I dug up Famitsu top 100 sellers of 2008, with only Wii/PS3 third party titles:

11. [PS3] Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (Konami) 686,254
31. [PS3] Devil May Cry 4 (Capcom) 310,012
32. [PS3] Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 (Konami) 297,896
37. [PS3] Ryu ga Gotoku Kenzan! (Sega) 270,438
41. [WII] Taiko no Tatsujin Wii (Bandai Namco) 251,083
44. [WII] Deca Sports (Hudson) 241,701
57. [WII] Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World (Bandai Namco) 212,408
59. [PS3] Dynasty Warriors: Gundam 2 (Bandai Namco) 206,438
66. [PS3] Grand Theft Auto IV (Capcom) 195,779
78. [PS3] Dragon Ball Z: Burst Limit (Bandai Namco) 163,010
93. [PS3] Valkyria Chronicles (Sega) 141,589

Total PS3: 2,271,416
Total Wii: 705,192

Now whether you interpret this as poor 3rd party Wii support, or as 3rd party games not selling well on the Wii, well that's up to you. Either way it doesn't look good for Nintendo.

If you want to do something, at least do it right:

Famitsu 2008 top 500
PS3 third parties: 3.722.789
WII third parties: 2.608.883

Famitsu 2009 top 30s (first 37 weeks)
PS3 third parties: 2.252.981
WII third parties: 1.957.062

There was only one big 3rd party title for Wii (Monster Hunter 3) and numerous for PS3, but third party sales were almost similar. If FF XIII wasn’t coming out this year third party sales would be very close. One more myth about WII and awful third party sales compared to PS3 goes down.

 

[spwolf]

I am with Deacon, if the PS3 is where its at for home consoles then why does it seem that nothing is coming just like the Wii.

PS3 is nowhere close to "where its at for home consoles"... I think other people were pointing out that poorly performing PS3 is doing much better than record kicking Wii when it comes to 3rd parties. End result is that there is lesser number of 3rd party efforts, and end result of that is that sales are down.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Do you mean Samurai Warriors 3?

Uh, yeah. That one.

 

[RyuKanSan]

now what wasn't NOA having a conference this year?

 

[TunaLover]

Their conference is coming up. Every year they announce big third party games there (last year was Tales of Graces and Samurai Warriors 3, the previous year had Monster Hunter 3) so I imagine this year they will have a lot of stuff.

Exactly my point when I made reference to NDAs.

 

[jeremy1456]

now what wasn't NOA having a conference this year?

NOA isn't, but NOJ is.

The Japanese conference is where all the new games are announced any way.

 

[RyuKanSan]

NOA isn't, but NOJ is.

The Japanese conference is where all the new games are announced any way.

yea, but i remember last year where they all had one following right after the other. so i just assumed. I doubt anything announced at this conference will be released this year...well maybe a title or two and it won't hit the U.S. for awhile..bleh.

 

[[Nintex]]

NOA isn't, but NOJ is.

The Japanese conference is where all the new games are announced any way.

I sure hope Nintendo is going to show new footage of their games, I need more Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid: Other M to get excited again. I haven't seen any indication that it is going to happen other than the pricedrop that could be related. Maybe they'll just drop the price worldwide and show New Super Mario Bros. Wii and a couple of other games at that Kyoto event and be done with it.

. I doubt anything announced at this conference will be released this year...

Heavily rumored is a new Nintendo published Factor 5/White Harvest LLC game that according to one of the developers who worked on it actually "shipped". If it doesn't show up this year I guess the back-up plan of the F5 guys didn't work.

 

[jeremy1456]

yea, but i remember last year where they all had one following right after the other. so i just assumed. I doubt anything announced at this conference will be released this year...well maybe a title or two and it won't hit the U.S. for awhile..bleh.

I can almost guarantee nothing announced at the conference will be released this year in any region.

 

[jeremy1456]

I sure hope Nintendo is going to show new footage of their games, I need more Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid: Other M to get excited again. I haven't seen any indication that it is going to happen other than the pricedrop that could be related. Maybe they'll just drop the price worldwide and show New Super Mario Bros. Wii and a couple of other games at that Kyoto event and be done with it.

Nintendo has so many studios and we don't know what most are doing. Hopefully they show off the new Zelda - that would be the perfect opportunity for them to do so.

I imagine some pretty decent third party announcements incoming, based on previous years conferences.

 

[Mr.NiceGuy]

Plus the Wii is the lead sku, not sure Sony is doing cartwheels over getting a Wii port

But at the end the PS3 version will sell better and by a big difference.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Do you mean Samurai Warriors 3?

I'm really curious about how this one is going to do. It's hard to tell how much the various Musou games are considered their own thing, or part of continuous series, and how much the majority of releases in the last few years going elsewhere will affect it.

Of all the Wii exclusives/lead multiplatform games, this strikes me as the one whose impact is being most overestimated.

 

[jeremy1456]

But at the end the PS3 version will sell better and by a big difference.

Who knows.

 

[[Nintex]]

Nintendo has so many studios and we don't know what most are doing. Hopefully they show off the new Zelda - that would be the perfect opportunity for them to do so.

I imagine some pretty decent third party announcements incoming, based on previous years conferences.

I think they'll keep Zelda for E3 and launch it in fall, they've said that the Vitality Sensor will be released early 2010 and I somewhat expected that to be their holiday release. It seems that Zelda will go up against whatever Microsoft and Sony line-up for Natal and PS Wand. They already have Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Metroid: Other M on their slate, I actually don't expect to see Zelda before SMG2 hits, unless they want to ride the hype train again(and for the record I think they should).

 

[spwolf]

If you want to do something, at least do it right:

Famitsu 2008 top 500
PS3 third parties: 3.722.789
WII third parties: 2.608.883

Famitsu 2009 top 30s (first 37 weeks)
PS3 third parties: 2.252.981
WII third parties: 1.957.062

There was only one big 3rd party title for Wii (Monster Hunter 3) and numerous for PS3, but third party sales were almost similar. If FF XIII wasn’t coming out this year third party sales would be very close. One more myth about WII and awful third party sales compared to PS3 goes down.

what are LTD sales for hardware (wii/ps3)?

 

[jeremy1456]

I think they'll keep Zelda for E3 and launch it in fall, they've said that the Vitality Sensor will be released early 2010 and I somewhat expected that to be their holiday release. It seems that Zelda will go up against whatever Microsoft and Sony line-up for Natal and PS Wand. They already have Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Metroid: Other M on their slate, I actually don't expect to see Zelda before SMG2 hits, unless they want to ride the hype train again(and for the record I think they should).

I agree with you about Zelda launching after SMG2, but Nintendo has a tendency to show Zelda games way before they're released. I'm still thinking that may be their big game for the show.

I don't think Nintendo is going to put anything out specifically to go against Natal or the PS Wand. I would bet big money on neither of them taking off, and I think Nintendo shares my prediction.

 

[Chris1964]

what are LTD sales for hardware (wii/ps3)?

Every time a new parameter will be added? If you want to include hardware LTDs for each system i don't see why we shouldn't include first party sales or even better the number (let alone the budget and quality) of third party games released for each system.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Every time a new parameter will be added? If you want to include hardware LTDs for each system i don't see why we shouldn't include first party sales or even better the number (let alone the budget and quality) of third party games released for each system.

a rule of thumb about gaf: a poster's tag is always true.

 

[Kandinsky]

Do we even know if Nintendo is having a fall conference this year?

 

[spwolf]

Every time a new parameter will be added? If you want to include hardware LTDs for each system i don't see why we shouldn't include first party sales or even better the number (let alone the budget and quality) of third party games released for each system.

so you think that PS3 having 43% better 3rd party sales in 2008 is acceptable and makes Wii 3rd party argument invalid? Even if Wii has 3x bigger install base (or whatever it is actually).

interesting.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Do we even know if Nintendo is having a fall conference this year?

They've had one for the past two (three?) years, and with the imminent price cut in the US - virtually a certainty now given the spate of retailer ads - I'd be very surprised if there wasn't another this year. It may coincide with their appearance at the Kyoto games show, or it may - as I'm wondering - precede TGS next week, or it may - although I doubt it - fall in the first week of October again.

 

[Khrno]

so you think that PS3 having 43% better 3rd party sales in 2008 is acceptable and makes Wii 3rd party argument invalid? Even if Wii has 3x bigger install base (or whatever it is actually).

interesting.

 

[jeremy1456]

so you think that PS3 having 43% better 3rd party sales in 2008 is acceptable and makes Wii 3rd party argument invalid? Even if Wii has 3x bigger install base (or whatever it is actually).

interesting.

He didn't say that.

And you're being ridiculous. You're like three irrational posts away from a meltdown, and over what? 3rd party sales?

 

[sphinx]

I don't think Nintendo is going to put anything out specifically to go against Natal or the PS Wand. I would bet big money on neither of them taking off, and I think Nintendo shares my prediction.

me too, my instinct tells me that Wands and Natal are arriving at a very inconvinient time.

Sony and MS are asking developers to include these features in their games, without considering that said developers have to RESEARCH and devote time and money to implement them. It takes time to explore the possibilites of those things, exciting as it may seem, introducing a concept is easy, applying said concept in REAL games will be a daunting task for most B-level, 2nd class developers.

I mean, it's about taking the same risks like with the wii but with more expensive stuff, who would want that? Red steel 2 has been said to be a developer nightmare and I would bet money it's related to the challenges that motion controls/Pointer present.

besides, is it worth it for developers to delay a game a year or 2 to decently incorporate Wands/Natal into a game? for us , maybe. For them, I really don't think so.

 

[Meier]

I'm talking about Japan. The US, while slipping slightly is still pounding the competition easily. The US and EU situations can easily be reversed. Japan, however, is lost.

Still winning, but no longer pounding. The YOY sales comparison must be pretty ugly I'd imagine.

I am sure it will win Christmas with the price drop, but Nintendo has pretty much wasted 2009 in both markets IMO.

 

[reilo]

So the PS3 outran the one legged man for half a year? Whoohoo!!
Look I'm tired of arguing back and forth with people who think that the Wii should do what the PS3 has been doing to be successful. It's a pretty lame argument and I'll leave you to it.

Actually, what the PS3 is doing is what they did with the PS1 and PS2 to sustain their success. Those suggesting that Nintendo could benefit from a price-drop and a smaller console are right. You know, kinda like Nintendo has been doing with the DS? Crazy, I know.

 

[spwolf]

He didn't say that.

so +43% is acceptable performance?

You know it is pretty silly to compare it to weak PS3 performance anyway. It would be interesting to get sales of 3rd party software sales on PS2 in its 2nd/3rd year, and maybe we will find out why PS2 has been so sucessful while Wii got 50% drop of the sales in its 3rd year.

 

[beast786]

If you want to do something, at least do it right:

Famitsu 2008 top 500
PS3 third parties: 3.722.789
WII third parties: 2.608.883

Famitsu 2009 top 30s (first 37 weeks)
PS3 third parties: 2.252.981
WII third parties: 1.957.062

There was only one big 3rd party title for Wii (Monster Hunter 3) and numerous for PS3, but third party sales were almost similar. If FF XIII wasn’t coming out this year third party sales would be very close. One more myth about WII and awful third party sales compared to PS3 goes down.

With those numbers

2008 3rd Party Sales
PS3 : 58%
Wii : 42%

2009: 3rd party sales
PS3: 54%
Wii : 46%

So yes there is a difference.

All that with fraction of wii hardware.

Of course big games equal big numbers. So whats your point behind that. And I love how you mention to ignore FXIII. Then we might as well ignore MH3. All that with fraction of wii hardware.

Myth continues :lol

 

[jeremy1456]

so +43% is acceptable performance?

You know it is pretty silly to compare it to weak PS3 performance anyway. It would be interesting to get sales of 3rd party software sales on PS2 in its 2nd/3rd year, and maybe we will find out why PS2 has been so sucessful while Wii got 50% drop of the sales in its 3rd year.

Or maybe as he mentioned earlier we could simply not exclude first party sales.

See what I did there?