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[-Pyromaniac-]

I dont think its that. The issue is they yet again gave 3rd parties the benefit of the doubt. Layton and Street Fighter are great 3rd party efforts. The problem is the rest arent. Nintendo seems to forget every cycle just how shitty companies like ubisoft etc treat the launch window.

That's my beef as well. They gave the games too much credit when they probably shouldn't have. Just a semi-poorly conceived launch. I don't think it's as bad as some people seem to think but it's a lesson learned.

 

[AranhaHunter]

I really don't know if there's space in the US market for another portable in any case; people seem to be expecting big things from a prospective handheld call of duty, which strikes me as fairly preposterous. I say launch to strength in Japan, which I think is what they'll do.

This is OT, but I have my doubts about the long term success of a dedicated handheld in the US as well, that includes both the NGP and 3DS, mainly because people (and kids) are all into smartphones and tablets nowadays, hopefully I'll be proven wrong. Either way, that's why I say the longer they wait to release it in the US, the worse off they are.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I dont think its that. The issue is they yet again gave 3rd parties the benefit of the doubt. Layton and Street Fighter are great 3rd party efforts. The problem is the rest arent. Nintendo seems to forget every cycle just how shitty companies like ubisoft etc treat the launch window.

That's true. I just think that it lacked that definitive game. Layton and Street Fighter are good games and sell well but they aren't games that people will buy a 3DS for. Besides Street Fighter was a port of a game that is available on many different platforms over the years. Say if Resident Evil Mercenaries had made it to launch I think that would've sold a lot and the 3DS would be doing better.

 

[AceBandage]

So, how do other platforms take off, if this is the kind of support that third parties bring?
It's really amazing that companies (with a few exceptions like Capcom, most of the time, and Level 5) seem to think that their shit games will sell on Nintendo platforms when they wouldn't on other systems.
It's like they're trying to intentionally poison the well...

This is OT, but I have my doubts about the long term success of a dedicated handheld in the US as well, that includes both the NGP and 3DS, mainly because people (and kids) are all into smartphones and tablets nowadays, hopefully I'll be proven wrong. Either way, that's why I say the longer they wait to release it in the US, the worse off they are.

People (especially kids) go for whatever is hip and new. Which, right now, is smart phones. There's still plenty of life in dedicated gaming handhelds, however, because they offer experiences that, regardless of what Rovio and Apple say, you can't get on smart phones.

 

[Majine]

Historically the trend of the drought of the Wii magnitude would without a doubt indicate New console is coming very soon. Problem is I dont think Nintendo is a company that you can rely on those trends.

As I said, altho Nintendo operates on a global scale, Japan is very important to them. If Wii would tank in US AND Europe, it'll be whatever, but if things are looking bad in Japan, it's fucking go time!

E3 this year, believe.

 

[Huff]

As I said, altho Nintendo operates on a global scale, Japan is very important to them. If Wii would tank in US AND Europe, it'll be whatever, but if things are looking bad in Japan, it's fucking go time!

E3 this year, believe.

I do expect crazy things from Nintendo and Sony for the portables at E3

 

[antonz]

I do expect crazy things from Nintendo and Sony for the portables at E3

Yep we know for sure Mario 3DS will get its big blowout. Mario Kart will get its fall release date etc

 

[Madao]

i think nintendo should have waited more to launch the 3DS. maybe until middle of the year until they had more stuff ready. they could have mproved the battery life a bit more, up the specs a wee bit and polished the design more. not to mention having the eStore ready on time.

this launch seemed rushed just to keep that dumb promise of "out within a year at the latest!!!1!olol"

 

[DR2K]

Which is pretty much the problem of every Japanese launch. I can't remember a Japanese launch that actually had enough games for the first year to sustain the system on anything other than potential and hype. Launch systems are those you buy and play for a week at launch and then they gain dust for months and months during the year while you occasionally take them out to try something new. Then in year 2 you start getting actual games.

US launches are different because they usually come later and have both previously released JP software and US launch software, aka the Dreamcast launch. I can't explain the X360 US launch though, that was just sincerely a good launch.

Nintendo didn't release a major 1st game for launch though. Which is silly.

X360 had some good launch(window) games. From Oblivion, DOA4, to COD, to Kameo, Ghost Recon, PGR3, etc. . . Every major genre was well represented and there was something for everyone.

 

[Huff]

Yep we know for sure Mario 3DS will get its big blowout. Mario Kart will get its fall release date etc

I would like a few more games than just Mario 3DS and kart. Gimme a Fire Emblem, Paper Mario, or something. Doesn't have to come out anytime soon, but I want to be teased and over excited.

 

[AceBandage]

i think nintendo should have waited more to launch the 3DS. maybe until middle of the year until they had more stuff ready. they could have mproved the battery life a bit more, up the specs a wee bit and polished the design more. not to mention having the eStore ready on time.

this launch seemed rushed just to keep that dumb promise of "out within a year at the latest!!!1!olol"

Neither of those would have happened with just a 2-3 month delay...
I also don't see how it was rushed. They had an ample supply ready for launch and had plenty ready. It just wasn't system seller stuff.

I would like a few more games than just Mario 3DS and kart. Gimme a Fire Emblem, Paper Mario, or something. Doesn't have to come out anytime soon, but I want to be teased and over excited.

 

[iidesuyo]

All of you sound like 3rd parties have something to prove themselves. If their games sell on Sony consoles and fail on Nintendo hardware, why should they move to Nintendo?

There is not a single - not even one - multiplatform title that sold better on the Wii than on a competing system.

The PSP destroys the DS by now. It sells many more units than the 3DS. It's insane, and even if some people try to do damage control, no one seriously expected this. All the "but wait for Zelda and Mario and holiday and maybe Capcom will move MH to 3DS" people told us half a year ago that it only needs another Nintendogs and Layton to get PSP steamrolled.

 

[AceBandage]

All of you sound like 3rd parties have something to prove themselves. If their games sell on Sony consoles and fail on Nintendo hardware, why should they move to Nintendo?

There is not a single - not even one - multiplatform title that sold better on the Wii than on a competing system.

The PSP destroys the DS by now. It sells many more units than the 3DS. It's insane, and even if some people try to do damage control, no one seriously expected this. All the "but wait for Zelda and Mario and holiday and maybe Capcom will move MH to 3DS" people told us half a year ago that it only needs another Nintendogs and Layton to get PSP steamrolled.

Except that third parties DO have something to prove, here.
They have to prove that they aren't incompetent idiots on Nintendo platforms.
There's absolutely no reason why a game with the same level of quality and marketing that a PS3/360 game gets won't sell well on Wii.
The problem is, that basically NEVER happens.

 

[antonz]

All of you sound like 3rd parties have something to prove themselves. If their games sell on Sony consoles and fail on Nintendo hardware, why should they move to Nintendo?

There is not a single - not even one - multiplatform title that sold better on the Wii than on a competing system.

The PSP destroys the DS by now. It sells many more units than the 3DS. It's insane, and even if some people try to do damage control, no one seriously expected this. All the "but wait for Zelda and Mario and holiday and maybe Capcom will move MH to 3DS" people told us half a year ago that it only needs another Nintendogs and Layton to get PSP steamrolled.

Do some research before you spout this crap. Many games have sold better on a Nintendo platform than the others.

 

[iidesuyo]

Do some research before you spout this crap. Many games have sold better on a Nintendo platform than the others.

Multiplatform? In Japan? Name me one, please!

 

[NEO0MJ]

Finally, chain chomps as partners! Been waiting for this. Now all we need i Bullet Bill...

 

[AniHawk]

i still think the decision not to make pokemon black/white a 3ds game is baffling, considering the new perspective and other features they could have worked into it (streetpass, game coins, better online).

 

[lwilliams3]

Nintendo didn't release a major 1st game for launch though. Which is silly.

X360 had some good launch(window) games. From Oblivion, DOA4, to COD, to Kameo, Ghost Recon, PGR3, etc. . . Every major genre was well represented and there was something for everyone.

The 360's launch was also closer to Christmas.. and Nintendo has to deal with most third-party developers not taking portable gaming seriously. Nintendo is trying to change that by giving developers some time during the launch period before they release their bigger titles, but with only a few exceptions like Capcom, alot of them are going to miss the boat anyway.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Multiplatform? In Japan? Name me one, please!

Sonic Unleashed.

 

[schuelma]

Multiplatform? In Japan? Name me one, please!

Are you talking Wii or DS. There is a pretty big distinction there.

 

[AniHawk]

Are you talking Wii or DS. There is a pretty big distinction there.

he's using the wii to prove a point about the 3ds.

 

[iidesuyo]

Are you talking Wii or DS. There is a pretty big distinction there.

I was referring to Wii

 

[DR2K]

Except that third parties DO have something to prove, here.
They have to prove that they aren't incompetent idiots on Nintendo platforms.
There's absolutely no reason why a game with the same level of quality and marketing that a PS3/360 game gets won't sell well on Wii.
The problem is, that basically NEVER happens.

It's impossible to get that kind of quality because the Wii can not do multiplatform properly so to make a great Wii game it was either 1 platform or 3 platforms for 3rd parties.

3DS is not the Wii, it is not an inferior machine and won't polarize the market like the Wii.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Nintendo didn't release a major 1st game for launch though. Which is silly.

X360 had some good launch(window) games. From Oblivion, DOA4, to COD, to Kameo, Ghost Recon, PGR3, etc. . . Every major genre was well represented and there was something for everyone.

Oblivion and GRAW released 3-4 months after 360 launch. A similar 3DS "launch window" would then include stuff like DOA, Zelda, Mercenaries, etc.

 

[schuelma]

I was referring to Wii

Why are you referring to the Wii when talking about the 3DS/DS?

 

[iidesuyo]

Why are you referring to the Wii when talking about the 3DS/DS?

Because it sets a precedent for 3rd Parties.

 

[schuelma]

Because it sets a precedent for 3rd Parties.

Why would a console from the same company set more of a precedent than the handheld it is succeeding?

 

[iidesuyo]

Why would a console from the same company set more of a precedent than the handheld it is succeeding?

Don't ask me things like that! It's just a feeling I have

 

[AceBandage]

Don't ask me things like that! It's just a feeling I have

Hmmm.

 

[Freezie KO]

So Iwata makes such a point about not price dropping because people will just say, "Eh. I'll wait for the price drop." And now people are saying about the 3DS, "Eh. I'll wait for a revision."

If sales are truly slow, I hope this deters their constant hardware revision mindset for handhelds as well as deterring them from pricing based on E3 reactions.

What lessons do you Gaffers hope they learn from this?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Because it sets a precedent for 3rd Parties.

Do you also expect NGP to follow in PS3's footsteps rather than PSP?

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Except that third parties DO have something to prove, here.
They have to prove that they aren't incompetent idiots on Nintendo platforms.
There's absolutely no reason why a game with the same level of quality and marketing that a PS3/360 game gets won't sell well on Wii.
The problem is, that basically NEVER happens.

Didn't Sengoku Basara 3 PS3 outsell the Wii version by 3:1? How the Wii version wasn't comparable I don't know, it had exactly the same content and where it was inferior it was due to hardware limitations, which is out of Capcom's hands?

 

[Takao]

Do you also expect NGP to follow in PS3's footsteps rather than PSP?

Both of them have had similar software patterns.

 

[Alexios]

Why would they get a revision lesson from this? If anything with this slow start by the time they do a revision, it will probably do better (having had more games out), and they'll get the opposite lesson. What's wrong with revisions anyway? Sony does them, MS does them, Nintendo does them. I don't mind that. I mind the Apple revisions that actually overhaul the capabilities of the system and make the old models unable to play new stuff way before the usual 5 or so year cycle consoles get.

Didn't Sengoku Basara 3 PS3 outsell the Wii version by 3:1? How the Wii version wasn't comparable I don't know, it had exactly the same content and where it was inferior it was due to hardware limitations, which is out of Capcom's hands?

You mean that game from a few months ago long after third parties gave the shaft to Wii owners who were glad to return the favor by considering most of their output shit? Ok. I suppose third parties should listen to you and not support the 3DS during its launch years and basically leave an install base of multimillions or whatever it ends up with as completely impossible to profit from for themselves. Then we can keep whining how only Nintendo software sells on there. That will be fun! It's not about proving shit, it's about using opportunities when available, especially when you've whined how there aren't any in the past.

Did we have shipment numbers per version or anything like that? You can't sell what you don't have. And what was the marketing like? Maybe they promoted the PS3 version more, like EA does for its sports games and the like in the West? I mean, a brand with certain appeal like Monster Hunter sold pretty good on Wii (+ online fees). Why wouldn't SB? Surely there are reasons beyond "LOL Wii". Maybe the whole point was viewing the other version as better. How much better doesn't matter if that's how it's perceived.

And why are you ignoring the DS? You think third parties shouldn't support the 3DS despite all the software that has sold, just because the PSP has also picked up in recent years (thanks to third party software itself)? Where's the sense in that?

 

[iidesuyo]

Do you also expect NGP to follow in PS3's footsteps rather than PSP?

Yes I think the NGP will struggle.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I remember the DS Phat having disappointing sales until the DS Lite came out, then it sold like crazy. And the DS Phat's launch didn't have good games.

I think it'll be similar with the 3DS.

Once more games and the newer model comes around, I think it'll be fine.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Also, SB didn't have an online mode on Wii despite SW3 having one so it wasn't hardware limitations.

It was also ~1,000 Yen cheaper at launch.

 

[KingDizzi]

We're already at the "wait for...." stage, sales age is getting fun again! Handheld costs too much, software is shit, handheld costs too much and handheld costs too much. There is no software that Nintendo can release which will put the 3DS at DS sales levels when that thing was going, at least not at £190. Once the price lowers sure but the way this handheld has gone in this short period of time and the way a console like PS3 bombed, price matters more than anything else. Also it really does show that the predecessors success means jack shit. Unless my memory fails me of course and I'm overestimating how well the DS did in its first two years? Pretty sure it was doing stupid numbers like 200k weekly.

Do you also expect NGP to follow in PS3's footsteps rather than PSP?

I'll let you know in a couple months, if we have Kaz come on stage with "three hundred and ninety nine dollars" then it's dead on arrival.

I remember the DS Phat having disappointing sales until the DS Lite came out, then it sold like crazy. And the DS Phat's launch didn't have good games.

I think it'll be similar with the 3DS.

Once more games and the newer model comes around, I think it'll be fine.

I remember it having a slow start but the fats were doing crazy numbers before the lite released. It was software that really pushed the handheld, not the lite.

Pretty sure ;/

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

You mean that game from a few months ago long after third parties gave the shaft to Wii owners who were glad to return the favor by considering most of their output shit? Ok. I suppose third parties should learn their lesson and not support the 3DS and basically leave an install base of multimillions or whatever it ends up with as completely impossible to profit from for themselves. That will be fun! It's not about proving shit, duh. Also, SB didn't have an online mode on Wii despite SW3 having one so it wasn't hardware limitations.

I was talking about the SD vs. HD actually, not online. Anyways, I'm not exactly sure how this rebuttal is meant to present an argument for developers supporting Nintendo platforms, if you are presenting their userbases as a bunch of tempremental whiners who have to be constantly babied to deem your stuff worth supporting.

Applying that logic to say the 'Tales of' games, then obviously PS3 and PSP owners, after watching every platform under the sun receive a mainline 'Tales of' game, should have shunned Tales of Vesperia and Tales of the World Radiant Mythologies 2.

 

[Takao]

It was also ~1,000 Yen cheaper at launch.

What's the excuse for Rune Factory: Oceans? Oceans is the very first Rune Factory game to be on a PlayStation platform and it outsold the Wii version despite the Wii version already having an audience for that series.

 

[schuelma]

I really think we are past the point of litigating the Wii's horrible no good market for most 3rd party projects. Let's leave the poor thing alone.

 

[AniHawk]

I remember the DS Phat having disappointing sales until the DS Lite came out, then it sold like crazy. And the DS Phat's launch didn't have good games.

I think it'll be similar with the 3DS.

Once more games and the newer model comes around, I think it'll be fine.

the ds sales were weak (~20k a week) until kirby hit, and then nintendogs helped a lot, and finally brain age made it successful. the ds lite and eventually nsmb just made it ultra successful.

looking at the 3ds lineup, you have games that look like console games, or retreads of handheld games. star fox and ocarina of time will probably do okay, but not to the level of system sellers. if there's a big system seller coming out for the 3ds, i bet we're not looking at it. it'll be a hit the same way brain age, tomodachi, and rhythm tengoku gold came out of nowhere and sold over a million.

 

[Alexios]

if you are presenting their userbases as a bunch of tempremental whiners who have to be constantly babied to deem your stuff worth supporting.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

Wii appears to be on its deathbed outside franchises that have enough brand power to overcome this, such as Mario and DQ (though lesser titles like Donkey Kong also have performed well, so what exactly stops a third party from putting out something similarly appealing again? that they aren't Nintendo?). This is partly due to the third party situation, partly due to Nintendo's mistakes, so the average title can't perform as well on it as it has the potential to eventually perform on a new platform like the 3DS, a successor to another platform that sold millions of third party software itself (as did Wii, but anyway). Using the few examples of games that release during this period to make a point about the whole system's life is silly to say the least. Using that to make a point about a completely different, just released system, is more than just silly.

If people see software they want they will buy a 3DS, and continue buying such software. If only Nintendo puts out such software, then only people buying Nintendo software will stick with the platform, and that won't be Nintendo's fault. How's this illogical or a demand for babying? If they want to benefit from the platform, it takes work, by 1st and 3rd.

 

[gkryhewy]

We're already at the "wait for...." stage, sales age is getting fun again! Handheld costs too much, software is shit, handheld costs too much and handheld costs too much. There is no software that Nintendo can release which will put the 3DS at DS sales levels when that thing was going, at least not at £190. Once the price lowers sure but the way this handheld has gone in this short period of time and the way a console like PS3 bombed, price matters more than anything else. Also it really does show that the predecessors success means jack shit. Unless my memory fails me of course and I'm overestimating how well the DS did in its first two years? Pretty sure it was doing stupid numbers like 200k weekly.



I'll let you know in a couple months, if we have Kaz come on stage with "three hundred and ninety nine dollars" then it's dead on arrival.



I remember it having a slow start but the fats were doing crazy numbers before the lite released. It was software that really pushed the handheld, not the lite.

Pretty sure ;/

If you believe the first part of your own post, you can knock $100 off that price and NGP will still be DOA, at least as a mass market product.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Also, SB didn't have an online mode on Wii despite SW3 having one so it wasn't hardware limitations. Also, did we have shipment numbers per version or anything like that? You can't sell what you don't have. And what was the marketing like? Maybe they promoted the PS3 version more, like EA does for its sports games and the like in the West? I mean, a brand with certain appeal like Monster Hunter sold pretty good on Wii (+ online fees). Why wouldn't SB? Surely there are reasons beyond "LOL Wii". Maybe the whole point was viewing the other version as better. How much better doesn't matter if that's how it's perceived.

Basara 3 was also offline on PS3. The Wii version was undershipped initially too, and sold out for several weeks I believe.

 

[AranhaHunter]

What's the excuse for Rune Factory: Oceans? Oceans is the very first Rune Factory game to be on a PlayStation platform and it outsold the Wii version despite the Wii version already having an audience for that series.

I didn't specify, the Wii version was ~1000 yen cheaper at launch.

 

[Alexios]

Basara 3 was also offline on PS3. The Wii version was undershipped initially too, and sold out for several weeks I believe.

Oh, I thought it had an online mode, nevermind that then. Yeah, I thought they probably had not cared to ship much Wii stock but I was just asking, having no data.

 

[Takao]

I didn't specify, the Wii version was ~1000 yen cheaper at launch.

My response wasn't aimed directly at you (even though I quoted your post) it was just a general "Wii version had some advantages but didn't sell as well as PS3 version" comment.

 

[Boney]

I really think we are past the point of litigating the Wii's horrible no good market for most 3rd party projects. Let's leave the poor thing alone.

it's always fun though

 

[LOCK]

People calling the 3DS a failure is jumping the gun.

Yes, its not selling gangbusters but is still decent considering the price and no big system seller. Now its probably safe to say that the system is selling more on word of mouth than available software, which is probably what Nintendo wanted anyway. The early launch in the year was a smart move, because it allows for them to have plentiful hardware at launch, more time to work on bigger titles for the fall, and use this time as a way to garner third party support. Also more importantly world of mouth will build up to the holiday season where it is more likely that people will spend the yen price tag for this system, and a big title ala Mario Kart or such will be the system seller to gain mass market attention. This holiday will be very big for the 3DS.

The same can be applied to Europe and the Americas. Both regions, have traditionally been slower to adapt to new handhelds compared to the Japanese. Nintendo had to kill the GBA for the DS to take center stage in America. I see this being repeated with the DS and 3DS. The DS is a beast of a system and still sells close to a million units monthly world wide. It will be a while before the 3DS gains the mass market attention, while the hardcore and Nintendo enthusiast will buy the 3DS no matter what. Once again, this early launch will allow word of mouth to spread, and when the holidays approach people will spend the 250 dollars to get the system with the new Mario Kart or similar mass market system seller from Nintendo.

Long story short: Its a 250 dollar system selling with no system seller. Give it time people.