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[The_lascar]

 

[Wazzim]

Well, it's still selling 20k on a weekly basis, + a Best Price version should be granted.

Does the 3DS has 'Best Price' games? DS never had those.

 

[Rush2thestart]

Do you really think "a Nintendo system" is the issue here?

Gotta earn your tag somehow I guess?

 

[jj984jj]

Do you really think "a Nintendo system" is the issue here?

No, I think wasting internal resources on a Nintendo system is the issue. The BbS team could've been used on something for PSP.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Making it PSP in Japan would've been fine, then porting it for international release. Or at least outsourcing it to h.a.n.d. or another studio so it wouldn't take up internal resources.

So how much more do you think it would have sold in the end, if they had gone with you strategy instead of establishing a quality title on a new system which could probably sell for a couple of years.. ?

Does the 3DS has 'Best Price' games? DS never had those.

DS had "Best Prices" games from SE, Capcom and co.

 

[SykoTech]

Ouch, didn't know it performed that poorly compared to BbS.

Time to give the fans what they want, I guess.

 

[Wazzim]

DS had "Best Prices" games from SE, Capcom and co.

Never knew that, neat.

 

[frankie_baby]

Wow, Super Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7, and Monster Hunter 3G all sold over a million already.

I'm not surprised or anything. But that's good to see.

Have you been asleep all year?

 

[RPGamer92]

Ouch, didn't know it performed that poorly compared to BbS.

Time to give the fans what they want, I guess.

BBS vol 2 PSP?

 

[jj984jj]

So how much more do you think it would have sold in the end, if they had gone with you strategy instead of establishing a quality title on a new system which could probably sell for a couple of years.. ?

Definitely more than this will reach, even if it does have legs it will not reach BbS.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

factors I would consider:

* BbS launched almost right after new years. Younger kids have the most disposable income at this time period, making purchases easier. There were also no serious games for the PSP launching at the same time vying for users' mindshare. KI launched a week prior for 3DS, and while not a real series title, the marketing blitz Nintendo's provided likely resulted in some cannibalized sales.
* DS/PSP userbase at time of release. It does take a serious fan to buy a system for a game.
* Number of previous SquareEnix games/RPGs/etc prior to release. This is the big one IMO, Square's obviously shown they're ramping up support for 3DS but we've only seen the start of things. Only thing 3DS has had Square-wise so far is Theatrhythm, which has the looks of a cash-in if you don't have access to the demo. Both DS and PSP releases came after waves of SE titles, and that's a userbase that may not necessarily buy a system for KH, but will buy KH if they already owned the system.

Numbers could have been a lot better but I wouldn't say it's at bomba range. I'd be interested to see how SE follows up over the years though; maybe I'm wrong here but Nomura-ish titles like Dissidia and Crisis Core share a similar userbase with KH, and if they don't end up migrating those types of titles to the 3DS at a later date then this KH3D launch would have been a complete waste. Like many people in the thread have said it would have sold double on the PSP easy. It'd be like Capcom making MH3G and then going back to PSP/Vita for MH4P.

I don't really buy that you need "X" amount of games from a publisher on a console before you can be expected to have any success, especially in the first year of a console's life. This game has been known about since MonHun and the other big hitters, is in a respected franchise, has nice graphics, released during a monster month for HW, and didn't release against any huge competition. Either the franchise is broken, or the fanbase on 3DS just doesn't care. Seeing as how MonHun pulled in another 20k this week, I'm guessing it's the franchise more than any Nintendo-fan aversion to RPGs.

 

[Dalthien]

Definitely more than this will reach, even if it does have legs it will not reach BbS.

Ha ha - a Kingdom Hearts game (yes, even an internally developed one) on the PSP right now might sell 50k in the other 80% of the world (and honestly, probably wouldn't sell much more than 600k in Japan right now either). That's the state of the PSP right now. Hell, the outsourced 358/2 outsold BbS worldwide, and that's back when the PSP still had some life in the rest of the world.

These aren't great numbers for DDD by any stretch, but let's disavow ourselves of any notion that this should have been on PSP - shall we?

 

[sphinx]

I don't really buy that you need "X" amount of games from a publisher on a console before you can be expected to have any success, especially in the first year of a console's life. This game has been known about since MonHun and the other big hitters, is in a respected franchise, has nice graphics, released during a monster month for HW, and didn't release against any huge competition. Either the franchise is broken, or the fanbase on 3DS just doesn't care. Seeing as how MonHun pulled in another 20k this week, I'm guessing it's the franchise more than any Nintendo-fan aversion to RPGs.

maybe the fans are sick and tired of handheld spin-offs and want the real deal and they are sending a message by not buying KH3D.

 

[FoneBone]

No, I think wasting internal resources on a Nintendo system is the issue.

That's a "yes" to my question, then. What issues specific to "a Nintendo system" do you think are the case here?

 

[marc^o^]

Maybe Kid Icarus releasing one week earlier impacted KH sales?

 

[hatchx]

Is 220k bad for a franchise that's been beaten into the ground with spinoffs? It'll probably reach 300k or so in Japan and sell another 500k worldwide.

Is that bad?

I mean, not to troll, but in my experience with the franchise I've never been too impressed and from what I've seen of KH3 it is more of the same.


Also isn't KIU awaiting another shipment? It only shipped 200k and I don't think the second shipment was included in these numbers.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Definitely more than this will reach, even if it does have legs it will not reach BbS.

Hmm...okay, i`ll guess we will just see and have to wait how this turn out. This was probably a long.term decision for SE to put it on 3DS, im pretty sure that i`ll will outsell the other portable titles when its all said and done worldwide.

Maybe Kid Icarus releasing one week earlier impacted KH sales?

I doubt that, but there have been some 3DS releases lately and pretty much every new game has to compete with the trinity.

 

[SykoTech]

BBS vol 2 PSP?

As think as SE can be, that conclusion wouldn't surprise me much.

Spoiler

Such a game probably would have had a better opening than this though.

 

[Man God]

Let's say they made DDD for PSP.

Would it even have a western release? Type Zero more or less isn't getting one for PSP.

Digital you say? We know Disney loves digitial releases.

 

[frankie_baby]

Would the 10th aniversary box be included in the sales of ddd, i asked in the last thread and was told it probably wouldnt be, i guess we'll know when we get the top 50

 

[slaughterking]

If it was sold at retail it is included.

 

[FoneBone]

Let's say they made DDD for PSP.

Would it even have a western release? Type Zero more or less isn't getting one for PSP.

Digital you say? We know Disney loves digitial releases.

If they did that, they'd probably port it to another platform(s) for the West.

 

[Man God]

The trinity is itself proof that the competing games theory doesn't hold much weight. They all sold fine despite their close releases because they were popular on their own and in different genre entirely.

 

[Dalthien]

It's just that RE is a worldwide franchise (RE5 sold 1/5 in Japan) and while RE:R has performed okay/good in Japan, it has been selling very disappointingly in Europe and NA.

I can't imagine Japan is enough to support these kind of games.

Revelations shared development with Mercenaries though. They basically ended up with both games for the development budget. Combined, they will be well over a million in sales.

And now they already have the engine tweaked and tested, the gameplay mechanics are fully in place, a bunch of assets can be reused from Mercs and Revelations. And Revelations was received quite well by the people who played it. I'd be surprised if we don't see some sort of follow-up to it, because it would really be a fairly low-budget affair (all things considered) at this point.

 

[jj984jj]

Ha ha - a Kingdom Hearts game (yes, even an internally developed one) on the PSP right now might sell 50k in the other 80% of the world (and honestly, probably wouldn't sell much more than 600k in Japan right now either). That's the state of the PSP right now. Hell, the outsourced 358/2 outsold BbS worldwide, and that's back when the PSP still had some life in the rest of the world.

These aren't great numbers for DDD by any stretch, but let's disavow ourselves of any notion that this should have been on PSP - shall we?

I've already said I think that they should've either ported it for international release or at least make use of their resources wisely so that the BbS team could've worked on another project instead while this was at least co-developed by h.a.n.d. or another developer.

That's a "yes" to my question, then. What issues specific to "a Nintendo system" do you think are the case here?

Stop reading half of my post and you'll figure it out, I'm done repeating my-self.

 

[GhostTrick]

KH DDD didn't do too bad. I mean, compared to BBS, there were twice more PSP than 3DS.

 

[frankie_baby]

If it was sold at retail it is included.

But aparently compilations of multiple games usually get a seperate chart entry

 

[Father_Brain]

If they did that, they'd probably port it to another platform(s) for the West.

Which is presumably what's going on with Type-0.

 

[frankie_baby]

KH DDD didn't do too bad. I mean, compared to BBS, there were twice more PSP than 3DS.

Nearer 3 times

 

[cw_sasuke]

The trinity is itself proof that the competing games theory doesn't hold much weight. They all sold fine despite their close releases because they were popular on their own and in different genre entirely.

Those 3 IPs arent likely to get affected by other releases. I dont think we can hold another KH "Spin-off" to the same standard.

And about Bravely Default - the game will better than most of you expect, mark my words.

Nearer 3 times

And around 3 years of "hype" as the next big thing.

 

[slaughterking]

But aparently compilations of multiple games usually get a seperate chart entry

Ah right, it's possible that lead to some complications, but I'd guess they still just count that towards the DDD numbers. And if not I doubt it makes a big difference.

 

[Man God]

If they did that, they'd probably port it to another platform(s) for the West.

So to get a few hundred thousand more copies in Japan is worth it to hire a whole bunch of people who could be working on a new game to port it to a console that actually sells worth a damn in the US.

Oh and considering how the market is in the West right now that platform is either the HD consoles or...the 3DS!

So they cut out the middleman.

 

[frankie_baby]

Ah right, it's possible that lead to some complications, but I'd guess they still just count that towards the DDD numbers. And if not I doubt it makes a big difference.

Well certainly less than 6k of difference (perhaps 5k that'd be a logical number) we shall see when the top 50 appears

 

[thehypocrite]

It did well above my expectations. I am just disappointed because, for a moment, it looked like it wasn't gonna have such a big drop-off.

Is a Bomba and the numbers show that.

No plattform alone can or will be able to sustain the console market, the home console area will need WiiU, the same way the portable will and should find a place for Vita.

I think in general most Gaffers seem to have just way to high expectations. I look around and there is tons of competition for these handheld titles nowadays and publishers are still charging +5-6000k when social and mobile games are pretty much for free.

L5 sold around 400K witch Layton and Inazuma 11 last year on a system which just had passed the 5 million market and people acted as if they were to go bankrupt in a minute. Expectation needs be checked, enviroment has changed and if you arent Mario, Monster Hunter or Dragon Quest you better adjust the development costs correctly to at least make your money.

Anything past 300-400K great is a very good result for personally and there arent many handheld games i would expect to sell way more in the markets current state.

Anything less than 600K ltd for 3D would be disappointing, i hope its one of the games which will rise again once the Redesign is out. Or maybe there will be a Final Mix version for both handhelds next year.

KH3D is a Bomba. The expectation was set, since everybody in japan is buying the 3DS these CORE franchises have the chance to sell equally or better to the numbers being put by the PSP in japan, they haven't thus this is a really bad situation for 3rd parties.

Also: all these titles surely are building a really strong reputation for 3DS; software houses should insist on this direction so we can see follow-ups opening better.

Make game, lose money on the game, make even more games to lose even more money, some logic you have there boss.

Anyone expecting bbs numbers for ddd was crazy and even days numbers would've been a little ambitious, overall i'd say it did solidly with smidgin of dissapointing, hopefully with the 3ds userbase growing rapidly it may have decent legs especially with golden week coming up soon but we will see

It was to be expected, these subdue expectations appearing after the fact the game has bombed horribly and the excuses being thrown around every time a 3DS game fails to meet expectations are funny to see. Most poster claimed that 3DS was going to make monster numbers on software and hardware, these are CORE franchises whose behavior has been very consistent regardless of platforms and user bases, this is a BOMBA no excuses.

The proof that the userbase is pretty good is the performance MK7, MH3G, SM3DL are showing on a weekly basis. They're pretty different games, and they're holding nicely since last November / December.

I think no one expected MH3G to sell so constantly, and reaching the 1,5 mark. This is a great result and we know that MH userbase might bring nice result in such genres or brand that were more typical on PSP.

Not really. Nintendo games have always done great on handheld with their core franchises. MH can be put on PSP and sell way more than what it has done so far (opps it already did that)

Actually i expected Tri G sell up to 2 million lifetime. Anything less than 1.5 million would have been a failure in my eyes, especially since there was no new Vita/PSP title announced.

After one week ? Erm okay, on which hardware would you have put 3D when making the decision in 2010 ?

They developed it in less than 2 years and pretty much re-used the engine, its no 50 million hd game they were developing here. Though without legs, sales will be disappointing.

PSP, they would have made more money.

I know that KH sold below expectations but I wouldn't call it a "bomba". :/

Is a bomba and SE has lost money with the development of this title, if that doesn't make it a bomba, I don't know what a bomba is.

 

[Mpl90]

The fuck did I just read.

 

[slaughterking]

I'm not sure if I understand this yet. How much of a bomba is DDD, thehypocrite?

 

[Dash Kappei]

So apparently my japanese buddy who's a fan of the series didn't pick up KH "because the Nintendo's (?) Kingodm Hearts are awful and he wasted money on them". Could word of mouth help it, is the game as good as BBS?

edit: thehypocrite can you tell us what KH3D dev costs were? How much money is SE losing?

 

[Wazzim]

The fuck did I just read.

I don't know.

 

[Jaruru]

KH could have done better...
KI drop is huge. hope it will perform well later. love the game so far

 

[frankie_baby]

KH could have done better...
KI drop is huge. hope it will perform well later. love the game so far

Most games usually drop like 80% second week, KI's drop is relatively good

 

[sphinx]

So apparently my japanese buddy who's a fan of the series didn't pick up KH "because the Nintendo's (?) Kingodm Hearts are awful and he wasted money on them". Could word of mouth help it, is the game as good as BBS?

if that's the case, then SE is to blame. If they have been giving gamers outsourced, o.k-ish-at-best KH games in the last decade then it's hard to get the fans back on board.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Kid Icarus numbers are very good for the type of game, the platform and the IP, I dunno what you guys are on but it's ridiculous to say they're disappointing. Quite the opposite really.

 

[boiled goose]

I'm not sure if I understand this yet. How much of a bomba is DDD, thehypocrite?

is a bomba

 

[StickSoldier]

The fuck did I just read.

is a bomba?

 

[Mpl90]

Kid Icarus is doing...pretty well. At least for now. Most games have a 70-75% drop in their second week, while Kid Icarus had a 65% drop, that's good. It should bode well for its performance in the long time.

 

[Instro]

Underwhelming start for KH, was expecting something closer to 250k. It will be interesting to see how it does next week.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

PSP, they would have made more money.

Hardly. PSP has been a dead platform for years outside Japan, and outside Japan is where KH nets most of it's sales.

Even with it's awful 1st week, DDD is still probably going to outsell BBS worldwide.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

BBS vol 2 PSP?

Wouldn't it make more sense to move to iOS?

 

[thehypocrite]

Hardly. PSP has been a dead platform for years outside Japan, and outside Japan is where KH nets most of it's sales.

Even with it's awful 1st week, DDD is still probably going to outsell BBS worldwide.

Enough to provide a higher ROI than BBS?

 

[kassatsu]

PSN Weekly Rankings (Reporting Period - March 26th - April 1st 2012)

PS3 Games

01/01 Journey [2012.03.15]
02/— Castlevania: Harmony of Despair [2012.03.29]
03/— MotorStorm RC [2012.03.29]
04/— Resident Evil 5 Alternative Edition [2012.03.29]
05/03 Crazy Taxi [2010.11.24]
06/02 Space Channel 5 Part 2 [2011.10.05]
07/04 Sonic Adventure [2010.09.29]
08/05 After Burner Climax [2010.04.21]
09/06 Daytona USA [2011.10.26]
10/07 Resident Evil 4 [2012.03.13]

Vita Games

01/— Pro Baseball Spirits 2012 [2012.03.29]
02/— The King, the Demon King and the 7 Princesses: New King Story [2012.03.29]
03/— @field [2012.03.29]
04/— Let’s Try Bass Fishing: Fish On Next [2012.03.29]
05/01 Little Busters! Converted Edition [2011.03.22]
06/04 Gravity Daze [2012.02.09]
07/07 Ragnarok Odyssey [2012.02.02]
08/02 Escape Plan [2012.03.01]
09/03 Unit 13 [2012.03.08]
10/05 FIFA Soccer [2012.03.15]

PSP Games

01/02 Monster Hunter Portable 3rd [2011.07.28]
02/01 Black Panther 2: Yakuza Ashura Chapter [2012.03.22]
03/04 Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker PSP the Best [2011.02.24]
04/— Pro Baseball Spirits 2012 [2012.03.29]
05/05 Persona 3 Portable PSP the Best [2011.08.25]
06/07 Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G [2010.03.18]
07/03 Shining Blade [2012.03.15]
08/06 Half-Minute Hero PSP the Best [2010.04.28]
09/08 Final Fantasy Type-0 [2011.10.27]
10/09 2nd Super Robot Wars Z: Saisei-hen [2012.03.08]

PS1 Games

01/— Tokyo Majin Gakuen: Kenpuchou [2012.03.28]
02/— Tokyo Majin Gakuen: Gehojou [2012.03.28]
03/— Tokyo Majin Gakuen: Oboro Kitan [2012.03.28]
04/01 Final Fantasy VII International [2009.04.10]
05/03 Final Fantasy IX [2010.05.20]
06/04 Final Fantasy VI [2011.04.20]
07/02 Rival Schools [2012.02.22]
08/06 Resident Evil 3: Nemesis [2008.12.24]
09/05 Final Fantasy VIII [2009.09.24]
10/07 Final Fantasy V [2011.04.06]

3 weeks in a row for Journey