Franchise fatigue is a good possibility. As is the length of time since the series started. The fans that helped build the franchise may have moved on or be waiting until they get an actual KH3 to jump back in. And then there's that beyond terrible and convoluted storyline that surely isn't helping any.
Media Create Sales: Week 13, 2012 (Mar 26 - Apr 01)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
fabricated backlash
Member
Maybe the 3DS was chosen because unlike the PSP it actually matters outside of Japan. And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't KH also a series that sells reasonably well in US and EU?
charlequin
Banned
How is that going to work? "Hey everybody, just so you know, when Nomura's team finishes working on this Versus game that is never coming out, they will leap immediately to working on this Kingdom Hearts 3 game that will also never come out"?
They can outright cancel Versus and replace it with Kingdom Hearts III for all I care.
But, realistically speaking, they could make the BbS/DDD team start working on KH3, couldn't they?
Meccanical
Member
They can can confirm KH3 as never releasing and keep making spinoffs and release Versus for all I care.
Square can always replace the characters in Versus by KH ones and call it KH3.
Pureauthor
Member
Exactly. I'm sure the plot would still make just as much sense.
3DS was chosen because Nintendo approached Nomura to make a make for the system (read moneyhatted the game)
well really KH3 being the next game is all but confirmed following Nomura's comments saying that the next game will end Xehanort saga.
I think KH is finally getting to that point in Japan where only the fans really buy it, which makes sense at this point in the franchise anyways. I do think if the install base was as large as the DS's was when 358/2 released it would've fared better, but there's no way of really knowing for sure.
Also, maybe Japan just has a hard-on for Roxas. A lot of people do for some reason. Dunno why.
I'm curious as to how it'll do in the US though. Obviously I think it'll do better, but the question is by how much.
Also, maybe Japan just has a hard-on for Roxas. A lot of people do for some reason. Dunno why.
I'm curious as to how it'll do in the US though. Obviously I think it'll do better, but the question is by how much.
Bruno MB
Member
It's been over six years since the last main title was released. Kingdom Hearts III hasn't even announced officially yet since they are busy with that money sink called Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Only God knows when it will be released, best case scenario around 2014-2015, that's a huge gap between the main entries, a very bad planning.
Of course this is not the explanation for the poor performance of Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance. But I think it is an important warning sign.
Of course this is not the explanation for the poor performance of Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance. But I think it is an important warning sign.
chickdigger802
Banned
Isn't vs gameplay pretty much crisis core mixed with KH?
Meccanical
Member
Okay so to reiterate:
- franchise fatigue
- franchise previously on too many different platforms/fractured userbase
- small 3DS userbase
Plus..
- not Golden Week/New Year/Christmas?
I think that's about it. Maybe it was undershipped? Look at the demand for Theatrhythm? Heh, extremely unlikely I guess. We'll see if it gets discounted/used copies appear.
- franchise fatigue
- franchise previously on too many different platforms/fractured userbase
- small 3DS userbase
Plus..
- not Golden Week/New Year/Christmas?
I think that's about it. Maybe it was undershipped? Look at the demand for Theatrhythm? Heh, extremely unlikely I guess. We'll see if it gets discounted/used copies appear.
The Wheel of Fortune
Member
Nice 3DS sales. I'm sad for LKS Vita, it looks like a great game. Hopefully KH3D has legs and I hope SE doesn't blame the 3DS/Nintendo for its disappointing sales; I want to see more SE games on 3DS! Maybe it'll do much better in America & Europe? I don't think so, but let's see.
Where is the moneyhatted part coming from ? Do you have any proof or just spreading nonsense ? Plattform holder will approach all big publishers when they have a new system coming out to claim support, that's a standard practice.
I'm guessing, as it makes sense (at least to me) since suddenly we have a mainline KH game on a Nintendo console whereas previously Sony consoles were the ones that had mainline entries.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Pretty terrible for KH. Square can't seem to catch a break these days.
As for original releases (so not including the CoM remake for PS2, and am including RE:Coded because cell phone), there are now 4 releases for Nintendo systems and 3 releases for Sony systems (if we do include those, it's 4 and 4).
If it's moneyhatting (referring to your previous post), Nintendo must've started back in 2004 when at the time they got an exclusive Kingdom Hearts storyline-following game for the GBA only.
You can say mainline all you want, but there's still 2 "mainline games" (though in all honesty, most of the "spinoffs" have significant plot details and connotations), and 6 "spinoffs".
-Pyromaniac-
Member
The Kingdom Hearts sales are surprising. I kind of expected 300-400K on the low side of the spectrum. I wonder if it's a sign of a series in decline, or series interest on a handheld in decline.
nincompoop
Banned
They'll probably end up outsourcing KH3 to a western dev and turning it into a dudebro shooter.
So every mainline KH game not exclusive on a Sony console must be moneyhatted ? Okay.
DR2K
Banned
If it were vice versa people would still lead to the same conclusion.
There are what should be obvious reasons why they wouldn't want to put it on PSP at this point.
or maybe 3DS was the better choice considering the PSP late lifecicle moment and absolute absence from any western chart?
not considering vita at all, at the moment, due to the lack of great investment from any developers
jimmypython
Member
yeah. They may want to do a HD remaster/remake of KH 1/2 at least if not all KH titles before releasing KH3 (let's just assume it will be on HD consoles) .
perfectchaos007
Member
It's funny because not even a few years ago, moneyhat and Nintendo were two words that never went together. Only now are they beginning to proactively convince 3rd parties to bring exclusive while Sony and Microsoft have been doing that for over a decade
I'm quite surprised by the Vita sales boost. I know it's not much, but there haven't been any new game announcements etc. that would have this kind of effect I can think of.
There's that "free 4GB memory card bundle", but we don't even know when it started, plus were talking about saving less than 2k yen here.
There's that "free 4GB memory card bundle", but we don't even know when it started, plus were talking about saving less than 2k yen here.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Ok so I was checking RC, BBS, 358/2 post-launch weeks and I think 3D should be close to 350k by the end of April (one month in the market) which is definitely a bomba if compared to BBS and 358/2.
slaughterking
Member
Jeez, those KH sales are hard to look at. With the next mainline DQ being an online-focused game on a Nintendo console there's no big franchise left for SE to mismanage! Which means they have to come up with a new big franchise to drive into the ground. Yay!
Let's not overthink this tiny bump. There are two Vita games in the Top 20 that can very well explain the 'rise'.
Let's not overthink this tiny bump. There are two Vita games in the Top 20 that can very well explain the 'rise'.
Or maybe the game just sucks? I dunno, I haven't been following it. But it's a possibility.
My reaction to the numbers was actually positive. Like "oh it's doing pretty alright, that's nice." Then I read the thread. :S
Bruno MB
Member
[PS3] Pro Baseball Spirits 2011 (Konami) {2011.04.14} - 86.486 / NEW
[PSP] Pro Baseball Spirits 2011 (Konami) {2011.04.14} - 71.264 / NEW
[3DS] Pro Baseball Spirits 2011 (Konami) {2011.04.14} - 11.644 / NEW
Konami gave up releasing more titles of this franchise on 3DS after its first try? lol
The standards regarding PS Vita are so low nowadays that almost every non-fatal sign is perceived as positive.
LizardKing
Member
I don't see how KH is such a "flop." Re: Coded did 95k its first week, 358/2 did 291k and BBS did 441k. I would maybe call it a little weak sales @213k but not a bomb or flop. Those were all on much more mature platforms also (in established userbase). If it falls off a cliff from now then maybe yeah, but we will see.
ShironRedshift
Member
Hmm... I wonder, in addition to userbase and general franchise fatigue, if 3D's numbers could also be partly because, since it's on the 3DS, people simply thought/assumed to be a sequel and a game of the same... quality as the two entries on the DS, and thus were put off from 3D due to how 358/2 Days and Re:Coded turned out, just not wanting to take that risk again. Combine that with the small userbase and franchise fatigue (people beginning to learn that it would probably be a bad idea to actually by a 3DS just for KH3D, because that probably would have been the only KH game it was ever going ot get anyway, which wouldn't have done it any favors) and the numbers start to make sense.
LizardKing
Member
when you are comparing systems of a userbase of 20 million+ to one with 5 million how can it not matter? Not everybody is going to buy a system for a particular game even if they liked it's iterations before. Some will buy a game if they own the system already. Maybe it takes multiple games for them to jump in, which is why you see a jump in sales for older games when new ones come out. The big 3 all went UP last week when KI launched, and Mario went up this week while the other 2 were close to last weeks numbers and above what they were 2 weeks ago. More people bought the system due to KI and KH, so more people buy the games that came out months ago. That is directly related to userbase. I mean the ds vs 3ds userbase is a difference of 20 million when comparing DDD to 358/2, and the sales difference was 75k. You don't think 75k more people could have bought it if it had 20 million more users?
3D is the next KH from the Osaka team (BBS), the other 2 are outsourced, lower profile spinoffs with no new disney worlds and one of them is basically a cellphone port with new battle systems.
chickdigger802
Banned
from previews and that old demo video?
Been ages ago.. but I recall it being pseudo turnbased/action thingy.
Well nomura refers only to 4 games as being mainline and those are the two numbered games and BBS and DDD.
All I'm saying is that prior to DDD there was no actual word that would connect the story to the franchise. Even BBS didn't have any sort of indication that anything like DDD was gonna happen, and we're talking about a series that likes to foreshadow the next entry with the secret endings. In fact the connection was only made after the announcement was done by Nintendo (in form of Re:Coded's secret ending).
Further when you look at the way the game developed, at the start it seemed even Nomura had no idea what the game was gonna be like and was simply doing a game for the sake of having a game on the system (notice the first demo had heartless and nobodies).
charlequin
Banned
You answered your own question.
I agree. The userbase thing is basically an excuse. If the enthusiasm for the title was there, we'd see a stronger open than this and probably a bigger hardware bump to go along with it.
People who buy a console early buy more software. People who care about a specific franchise that's announced pre-release buy hardware early on to play that game. For the vast majority of franchises, userbase size doesn't matter at all after the first few million (just compare FFX to FFXII for the most straightforward demonstration of this phenomenon.) Especially after the price drop, there's almost no reason for a KH fan to not own a 3DS unless that reason is "I don't actually care about playing DDD after all" (which, again, pushes the responsibility back on SE and the software itself.)
What old demo video? As far as I remember, it never looked like Crisis Core ever.