Support NeoGAF

[InsaneZero]

In terms of software being sold globally, then the PSP can be considered a failure. Additionally, in terms of meeting the goals and expectations set by the company (which was to become the Playstation 2 of not only the portable video game space, but also other multimedia sectors), it was a tremendous failure.

But aside from those, it had a pretty good life in Japan.

 

[NIghtWolf]

Who knows how many psp would been sold if the machine only played games, that would of mean, cheaper price/ more games/ a centered way to market the system/ etc. Sonys most successful systems only played games (and read cd/dvds lol), they didn't had the tech they have now. Obviously times changes and they can't ignore tech, but I think they kinda hoped too much on it with psp/ps3. We got to see that vision change on future generations, their primarily feature should be a system that plays games with technology rather then a piece of technology that play games.

 

[Takao]

If all of those who are writing off the PSP as a failure due to the prelaunch hype, what does that make the 3DS? It was the successor to the most successful handheld of all time. The hype was so strong that at E3 people questioned why Sony would even bother with another handheld because the 3DS would just eat every piece of market share it had. Does this sales chart - the failure to have any software sell in Europe, and worse software sales than the PSP at launch in the US make it the second most historic failure in history? No, it doesn't. Shit is said prior to launch, and things don't always go according to plan. Real platforms don't let a disappointing launch sink them, they rebound from it.

 

[Father_Brain]

If all of those who are writing off the PSP as a failure due to the prelaunch hype, what does that make the 3DS?

Ask that again in 2016.

Less snarky response: Predictions that 3DS would be impossible to find for months after launch were obviously mistaken, but that says next to nothing about its long-term performance.

 

[test_account]

The PSP is successful as a piece of hardware, but pretty much a sinkhole for software outside of MH.

If it is pretty much a sinkhole for software outside MH, why does the PSP see so much software support? (assuming your talking about Japan).

 

[gofreak]

In terms of software being sold globally, then the PSP can be considered a failure. Additionally, in terms of meeting the goals and expectations set by the company (which was to become the Playstation 2 of not only the portable video game space, but also other multimedia sectors), it was a tremendous failure.

But aside from those, it had a pretty good life in Japan.

In 2004/2005, when Sony was looking at the handheld market, they would have been looking at a market of 60-70m hardware units and ~270m software units sold (GBA's sales up to that point).

In that light, relative to where the handheld market was pre-DS, PSP has done pretty OK.

That DS was a mega phenomenon casts PSP in a relatively less favorable light, but compared to what came before in the handheld space it doesn't compare quite so unfavourably.

 

[Chris1964]

If all of those who are writing off the PSP as a failure due to the prelaunch hype, what does that make the 3DS?

A machine with a disastrous launch.

 

[jcm]

I think two questions need to be answered to judge the success or failure of the PSP:

1) Has it been profitable for Sony
2) Has it successfully positioned Sony for a profitable successor

My personal judgement is that the PSP was somewhat successful. It has likely been profitable, and the NGP ought to be competitive. Obviously, it wasn't a huge success like the DS or PS2, but it certainly wasn't a failure.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

In 2004/2005, when Sony was looking at the handheld market, they would have been looking at a market of 60-70m hardware units and ~270m software units sold (GBA's sales up to that point).

In that light, relative to where the handheld market was pre-DS, PSP has done pretty OK.

That DS was a mega phenomenon casts PSP in a relatively less favorable light, but compared to what came before in the handheld space it doesn't compare quite so unfavourably.

Keep in mind that GBA managed those figures in just 3-4 years, it's life was artificially cut short by DS being rushed to market. How did PSP look just 3-4 years in?

 

[Acosta]

Calling PSP a failure at this point it´s absurd.

3D0 it´s a failure, Pippin it´s a failure, Virtual Boy it´s a failure. PSP is nothing of that.

 

[NIghtWolf]

Keep in mind that GBA managed those figures in just 3-4 years, it's life was artificially cut short by DS being rushed to market. How did PSP look just 3-4 years in?

Not a fair comparison, since gba had no competition, a history of successful systems by that date, cheaper system/software, full software support from companies, etc?

 

[Chris1964]

3D0 it´s a failure, Pippin it´s a failure, Virtual Boy it´s a failure. PSP is nothing of that.

Is N64 a failure?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Not a fair comparison, since gba had no competition, a history of successful systems by that date, cheaper system/software, full software support from companies, etc?

I didn't originally bring up the GBA comparison, but comparing 3 years to 6 years just strikes me as fundamentally off balance.

Also, it's not like PSP didn't come with an equally if not more powerful brand identity and near universal developer/pubisher support. I'd say PSP actually managed better 3rd party support overall than any Game Boy. Nintendo also had competitors (Bandai, SNK, Nokia), they just slaughtered them.

 

[neutralgamer02]

Meh, PSP isn't a failure just because it didn't live up to expectations. If we want to go with that mindset, then the 3DS has so far been failure.

 

[NIghtWolf]

I didn't originally bring up the GBA comparison, but comparing 3 years to 6 years just strikes me as fundamentally off balance.

Also, it's not like PSP didn't come with an equally if not more powerful brand identity and near universal developer/pubisher support. I'd say PSP actually managed better 3rd party support overall than any Game Boy. Nintendo also had competitors (Bandai, SNK, Nokia), they just slaughtered them.

Would u say a gba launching the same time as the psp did with the same price tag would of sold as the gba did on 2001-2005 having the ds as competitor? I don't really think time is a factor when u get almost a half priced system with cheaper software + no competition back then.

 

[Chris1964]

Meh, PSP isn't a failure just because it didn't live up to expectations. If we want to go with that mindset, then the 3DS has so far been failure.

It has.

 

[BishopLamont]

The PSP wouldn't have done so well if the DS didn't make Japan a handheld land, that and MH.

 

[Acosta]

Is N64 a failure?

No, just under expectations, like PSP. Not a failure. GC it´s a failure.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Would u say a gba launching the same time as the psp did with the same price tag would of sold as the gba did on 2001-2005 having the ds as competitor? I don't really think time is a factor when u get almost a half priced system with cheaper software + no competition back then.

I can't really wrap my head around the comparison because GBA and DS shared the same strength (Nintendo games). Also, a $249 GBA likely would've been a dramatically different system tech wise. It's not like PSP's pricepoint was arbitrary, it was driven by technology.

It's sort of beside the point though, because it's not like PSP was at any disadvantage due to brand, support or capability. In all those areas I'd say it was not only ahead of GBA comparably, but also DS initially. Price worked against it, but price was a result of the system design, you take out the price disparity and logically you then also need to remove the technology disparity.

 

[Majmun]

PSP is under expectations? I'd say it's a pretty successful handheld debut for Sony.

 

[Chris1964]

No, just under expectations, like PSP. Not a failure. GC it´s a failure.

Before the stealth edit I saw where you were coming from. After adding GC I lost you.

If GC is a failure N64 is twice a failure.

 

[Celine]

No, just under expectations, like PSP. Not a failure. GC it´s a failure.

What's the difference between the N64 and GC then ?

 

[AranhaHunter]

Looking at the HW/SW shipment sales of the PSP, you can see a ~4-1 tie ratio, not console like tie ratios, but an ok ratio. It's definitely not a failure, no matter how people try to spin it. I also have to think that the above numbers include PSN sales, which are becoming more and more common. My last couple of PSP games, before I got rid of it, were bought off PSN. I reckon this will be even more true to the NGP, and maybe even the 3DS, depending on Nintendo's plans.

If all of those who are writing off the PSP as a failure due to the prelaunch hype, what does that make the 3DS?

While it's too early to talk about the 3DS and its long term success/failure, I feel like it'll not sell close to the DS LTD anywhere in the world. Will it make it a failure? No. Will people calling the PSP a failure call the 3DS a failure if that happens? Remains to be seen.

Keep in mind that GBA managed those figures in just 3-4 years, it's life was artificially cut short by DS being rushed to market. How did PSP look just 3-4 years in?

This will be an excuse that people will use if (when?) the PSP passes the GBA LTD. It's really irrelevant though. Nintendo chose to cut the GBA's life short in favor of the DS, if they didn't the DS probably wouldn't have sold as much as it did. Same with XB/360, the OG XBox would've sold a lot more and had much more visually impressive games if MS didn't cut its life short, but the 360 sales probably would've suffered.

It has.

I personally don't think it has.

 

[Chris1964]

If 3DS has a LTD <100M with significantly less software than DS does this make it a success, a failure or an underperformed system?

 

[Majmun]

A successful system that underperformed. Same as the Ps3, I guess.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

This will be an excuse that people will use if (when?) the PSP passes the GBA LTD. It's really irrelevant though. Nintendo chose to cut the GBA's life short in favor of the DS, if they didn't the DS probably wouldn't have sold as much as it did. Same with XB/360, the OG XBox would've sold a lot more and had much more visually impressive games if MS didn't cut its life short, but the 360 sales probably would've suffered.

It's not like Nintendo had much choice at the time, they needed to rush out an answer to PSP. DS didn't really take off until a year after launch though, so in retrospect I actually do think they could've waited until then and given GBA a longer active cycle without changing the DS trajectory much.

It's not an "excuse" though. When people bring up GBA comparisons as evidence of PSP's success (ie: it sold like GBA), why wouldn't their shelf lives be brought up? If anything trying to dismiss deeper context and understanding strikes me as the "excuse" here.

 

[Acosta]

Before the stealth edit I saw where you were coming from. After adding GC I lost you.

If GC is a failure N64 is twice a failure.

Why? GC didn't come close to dominate any market, it was practically irrelevant worldwide, which is pretty bad. N64 had a much stronger presence in Northamerica.

It´s my perception, do you have numbers Chris? I accept the possibility I could be off with GC numbers but I don't know a reliable site to check them out.

 

[Chris1964]

Why? GC didn't come close to dominate any market, it was practically irrelevant worldwide, which is pretty bad. N64 had a much stronger presence in Northamerica.

It´s my perception, do you have numbers Chris? I accept the possibility I could be off with GC numbers but I don't know a reliable site to check them out.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/historical_data/index.html

 

[mr.hands]

Maybe the Japanese bought so much Nintendo DS-iterations that they got sick of it?

Also the name:
Nintendo DS
Nintendo DS Lite
Nintendo DSi
Nintendo DSi Lite
Nintendo DSi XL

and now:
Nintendo 3DS

Maybe they think it's the same handheld nintendo has sold then again and again for the past 7 years? If that is the case then Nintendo should have named it something else.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

3DS launch was a failure. Doesn't say anything about it's longterm performance though.

 

[Acosta]

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/historical_data/index.html

Thanks.

Yes I was off, I thought N64 was higher and GC lower. I retire the GC part, I thought it was under 15 millions.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Maybe the Japanese bought so much Nintendo DS-iterations that they got sick of it?

Also the name:
Nintendo DS
Nintendo DS Lite
Nintendo DSi
Nintendo DSi Lite
Nintendo DSi XL

and now:
Nintendo 3DS

Maybe they think it's the same handheld nintendo has sold then again and again for the past 7 years? If that is the case then Nintendo should have named it something else.

There wasn't a DSi Lite.

I wonder if this, at least in part, might be why Sony seems so reluctant to go with the PSP branding for NGP? After all, PSP's had just as many revisions as DS.

 

[Majmun]

After all, PSP's had just as many revisions as DS.

True. But each PSP revision got cheaper. Each DS revision costed more than the previous one.

But that's another discussion.

 

[Laguna]

Maybe the Japanese bought so much Nintendo DS-iterations that they got sick of it?

Also the name:
Nintendo DS
Nintendo DS Lite
Nintendo DSi
Nintendo DSi Lite
Nintendo DSi XL

and now:
Nintendo 3DS

Maybe they think it's the same handheld nintendo has sold then again and again for the past 7 years? If that is the case then Nintendo should have named it something else.

DSi lite... Obviousley an expert


In my opinion it´s just a temporary software problem.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

True. But each PSP revision got cheaper. Each DS revision costed more than the previous one.

But that's another discussion.

That's not true, 2k/3k held price but so did the Lite. And while DSi and XL increased prices, neither did to the degree that Go did.

 

[AranhaHunter]

If 3DS has a LTD <100M with significantly less software than DS does this make it a success, a failure or an underperformed system?

In this hypothetical situation, are we assuming the 3DS makes Nintendo money, breaks even or lose money? Assuming it makes Nin money, then it'll be a successful system that underperformed according to initial expectations.

It's not like Nintendo had much choice at the time, they needed to rush out an answer to PSP. DS didn't really take off until a year after launch though, so in retrospect I actually do think they could've waited until then and given GBA a longer active cycle without changing the DS trajectory much.

It's not an "excuse" though. When people bring up GBA comparisons as evidence of PSP's success (ie: it sold like GBA), why wouldn't their shelf lives be brought up? If anything trying to dismiss deeper context and understanding strikes me as the "excuse" here.

Nintendo had a choice, just like MS with the Xbox, and they chose to end production for the GBA and focus solely on the DS. They could've waited if they wanted to, Sony could've launched a new handheld in 2007/2008 when it looked like the PSP was all but done, but they didn't. Dismiss deeper context? What are you talking about, there's no "deeper context" here. Like I said, the GBA would've sold more had Nintendo not ended its production early to get the DS up and running, but they chose to end it and that's that. Using that as an excuse if/when the PSP sales surpass it is foolish IMO. To me, it's akin to saying Karl Malone scored more points than Michael Jordan, but MJ has a higher PPG average. Irrelevant because Malone still scored more points and kudos to him for being able to play longer at a high level.

Anyways, this is completely OT, so I'm done with this subject. I just wanted to share my opinion on it.

 

[gofreak]

Keep in mind that GBA managed those figures in just 3-4 years, it's life was artificially cut short by DS being rushed to market. How did PSP look just 3-4 years in?

That was 4 and a bit years in for GBA.

Dunno exactly how PSP fared at the same point - Sony switched from production to retail sales reporting a year or so into PSP's life, making it harder to aggregate sales up to that point - but in the four and three quarter years of FY2006-FY2010 they sold around 240m pieces of PSP software, around 44m PSPs.

Measured against the last generation's numbers this is still 'not so bad' IMO, that's really my point, whether PSP is pound-for-pound >= GBA or not. If we went back and asked people what they expected PSP to do in absolute terms back in 03 and 04, I'm not sure if something like '150m' - mega PS2 style numbers - would have been such a common expectation given the GBA was running at around 70m at that point? The handheld market just didn't appear to be that big back then. DS's performance, after the fact, makes PSP's look weak(er) but it's been a phenomenon, one I suspect Nintendo will find it difficult to match in the future even.

Anyway, everyone seems to have a different idea of what success or failure means here...that itself makes debate difficult. I think 'failure' on its own is a harsh word though for something that does well in absolute terms just because it doesn't meet big expectations.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Nintendo had a choice, just like MS with the Xbox, and they chose to end production for the GBA and focus solely on the DS. They could've waited if they wanted to, Sony could've launched a new handheld in 2007/2008 when it looked like the PSP was all but done, but they didn't. Dismiss deeper context? What are you talking about, there's no "deeper context" here. Like I said, the GBA would've sold more had Nintendo not ended its production early to get the DS up and running, but they chose to end it and that's that. Using that as an excuse if/when the PSP sales surpass it is foolish IMO. To me, it's akin to saying Karl Malone scored more points than Michael Jordan, but MJ has a higher PPG average. Irrelevant because Malone still scored more points and kudos to him for being able to play longer at a high level.

Anyways, this is completely OT, so I'm done with this subject. I just wanted to share my opinion on it.

Comparing performance in terms of more than just raw numbers (ie: factoring lifecycles) would be the deeper context, and also what you seem so eager to dismiss. And back in 2003/2004, I'd argue it didn't look like Nintendo had much choice, pretty much the entire industry expected Sony to swoop and repeat what they'd done in the console market a decade earlier. Obviously now we can look back and see how Nintendo could've handled things differently, but at the time it really didn't look like they had much choice but to move to the next cycle asap.

 

[jcm]

A successful system that underperformed. Same as the Ps3, I guess.

In what way is the PS3 a success? Unless Sony's goal was to squander their position as console market owner while burning billions of dollars, then it has to be considered a failure.

 

[Chris1964]

Measured against the last generation's numbers this is still 'not so bad' IMO, that's really my point, whether PSP is pound-for-pound >= GBA or not. If we went back and asked people what they expected PSP to do in absolute terms back in 03 and 04, I'm not sure if something like '150m' - mega PS2 style numbers - would have been such a common expectation given the GBA was running at around 70m at that point? The handheld market just didn't appear to be that big back then. DS's performance, after the fact, makes PSP's look weak(er) but it's been a phenomenon, one I suspect Nintendo will find it difficult to match in the future even.

DS was the main reason that made the handheld market so big.

What most people and Sony expected from PSP was to make DS a new N64.

 

[Takao]

There wasn't a DSi Lite.

I wonder if this, at least in part, might be why Sony seems so reluctant to go with the PSP branding for NGP? After all, PSP's had just as many revisions as DS.

Eh, the PSP revisions outside of the Go weren't big enough for people to think the successor was another revision. The PSP having a twin analog sticks (instead of a single nub) should immediately tell people this isn't just another revision.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

That was 4 and a bit years in for GBA.

Dunno exactly how PSP fared at the same point - Sony switched from production to retail sales reporting a year or so into PSP's life, making it harder to aggregate sales up to that point - but in the four and three quarter years of FY2006-FY2010 they sold around 240m pieces of PSP software, around 44m PSPs.

Measured against the last generation's numbers this is still 'not so bad' IMO, that's really my point, whether PSP is pound-for-pound >= GBA or not. If we went back and asked people what they expected PSP to do in absolute terms back in 03 and 04, I'm not sure if something like '150m' - mega PS2 style numbers - would have been such a common expectation given the GBA was running at around 70m at that point? The handheld market just didn't appear to be that big back then. DS's performance, after the fact, makes PSP's look weak(er) but it's been a phenomenon, one I suspect Nintendo will find it difficult to match in the future even.

Anyway, everyone seems to have a different idea of what success or failure means here...that itself makes debate difficult. I think 'failure' on its own is a harsh word though for something that does well in absolute terms just because it doesn't meet big expectations.

That's fair, though that last year also has GBA's successor on the market. I'd also say expectations for PSP back in 2003/2004 were likely higher than what it's managed, not just from Sony but from virtually all segments of the industry (publishers, retail, analysts, press, etc). Domination really was the convential wisdom, and PSP managing signifincantly below that also helps reinforce the "failure" impression, particularly in west where it never rebounded like Japan.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Eh, the PSP revisions outside of the Go weren't big enough for people to think the successor was another revision. The PSP having a twin analog sticks (instead of a single nub) should immediately tell people this isn't just another revision.

I think this is more due to branding than the revisions themselves. Each PSP had battery, screen, memory and/or controller improvements, further streamlined casings, and the 3k even built in a camera. It's just that Sony never rebranded them like Nintendo did with similar iterative revisions like the DS Lite GB Pocket or GBA SP.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

In what way is the PS3 a success? Unless Sony's goal was to squander their position as console market owner while burning billions of dollars, then it has to be considered a failure.

Since we are talking about JPN...well, successful as the best selling true next generation HD console.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

If 3DS has a LTD <100M with significantly less software than DS does this make it a success, a failure or an underperformed system?

I see you are having fun. LOL

 

[AranhaHunter]

I think this is more due to branding than the revisions themselves. Each PSP had battery, screen, memory and/or controller improvements, further streamlined casings, and the 3k even built in a camera. It's just that Sony never rebranded them like Nintendo did with similar iterative revisions like the DS Lite GB Pocket or GBA SP.

Nope.

 

[Graphics Horse]

cameras and microphones, often mistaken.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

cameras and microphones, often mistaken.

Yeah, my mistake.

 

[jcm]

Since we are talking about JPN...well, successful as the best selling true next generation HD console.

Yes, I suppose if this were an elementary school field day where everyone gets a trophy, that's the one we'd give them.

 

[Boney]

successful as the best selling 'true next generation HD console™'.

tee hee