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[MeBecomingI]

Wow, those Vita numbers make me sad. I mean... that is humiliatingly bad.

I really, really hope it picks up because it won't be able to sustain itself with those numbers and I expect it to do even worse in North America and Europe. Vita is everything we want, but it is just too late.

 

[Spiegel]

[NDS] Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Masou Kishin The Lord Of Elemental - 初週 86,105
[PSP] Super Robot Wars OG Saga: Masou Kishin II - Revelation of Evil God - 初週 81,896

Don't mix trackers.

And we already got the real comparison.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34365217&postcount=22

 

[orioto]

Funny thing is i just realised the vita situation may be compared to the one of the Dreamcast in Japan. Let me explain myself.

Saturn was the core japanese consoles with everything from 2d fighters to sims etc... It had a good run as the core japanese console for a while. Then the DC, with its worldwide ambition and ability to host 3d games that made the success of the Playstation, tanked badly cause the saturn fan demographic just didn't care about that.

I really think there is no demographic for the Vita right now in Japan. That's why i was scared before its launch, about the psp demographic being half young monster hunter players and half old core gamerz playing tactical and such. Where does a shiny expensive tank with dudebro games position itself in this market... I mean the Vita does have some japanese targeted games, even some rpgs, but a high tech newly born product isn't the right fit for those people. I would guess a massive second hand market ws a key to psp's late success.

 

[matmanx1]

Didn't Namco expect to sell 250K from ToA?

Pretty sure there was a quote from a producer or director or something that had that number in it shortly before the game launched. I believe that was a worldwide figure though, or at least that's how I remember it.

 

[turnbuckle]

I'm really thinking of cancelling my Vita pre-order now. It's depressing to see how poorly it's performing in a market where it did better than NA last generation.

 

[Mpl90]

In my opinion, total bombas were Dead or Alive: Dimensions, Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime 3 and Ace Combat now.
Also Senran Kagura did very, very well (80k IIRC).

Probably, DQ is still selling...but yeah, it'll be much lower than the DS one, which was lower than the GBA one. 200k if it has long legs.

Ace Combat is bomba, no doubt about it, but really, I'd like to know about promotion, since I'm feeling it hasn't been promoted well enough, and not only with the stores completely hiding 3rd party minor games, as the ones near DCharlie do XD

...Yeah, where's Vinnk.

EDIT: Oh, yeah. Kagura did really well, true!

 

[duckroll]

Wow, those Vita numbers make me sad. I mean... that is humiliatingly bad.

I really, really hope it picks up because it won't be able to sustain itself with those numbers and I expect it to do even worse in North America and Europe. Vita is everything we want, but it is just too late.

Let's try and back up that hope with some reality. In the next 6 months, what games do you think could give the Vita a boost? Are there enough of such titles for a sustained boost? What announcements could we expect which would help lift it from an early watery grave?

 

[wsippel]

What third party 3DS games have exceeded or even simply met expectations?

Monster Hunter will exceed expectations if it hasn't already. One piece may have. Did anything else?

Senran Kagura.

 

[cyberheater]

Not that simple. Just because something is cheaper does not mean it is perceived as having good value.

The best way to improve Vita sales is through developer support. More developer support = more and better games = more sales.

All my mates and I who are interested in this have said that's it's too expensive. If it was sub £200 quid then we'd bite. So yeah, cheaper price = more sales.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Let's try and back up that hope with some reality. In the next 6 months, what games do you think could give the Vita a boost? Are there enough of such titles for a sustained boost? What announcements could we expect which would help lift it from an early watery grave?

the 100 dollar price drop oollol

 

[Plinko]

Not that simple. Just because something is cheaper does not mean it is perceived as having good value.

The best way to improve Vita sales is through developer support. More developer support = more and better games = more sales.

Except we just had the exact opposite happen with 3DS. Major price cut and 2 good games and the system took off like a rocket.

Vita will probably end up in the same place assuming they can come up with a franchise the West will buy a system for. I really hope it works out for Sony--more competition is great in the handheld area.

 

[duckroll]

the 100 dollar price drop oollol

Are you okay my friend? You look a bit faint. Did you eat something bad?

Spoiler

I'm sorry, I can't help myself. >_<

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

What would have them make besides Gran Turismo? (Actually have they ever done any game that isn't Gran Turismo?)

Tourist Trophy, Omega boost, and Motor toon grand prix (Fucking awesome game, underatted in its day). I say they get PD to work on a GT vita before release.

 

[Mpl90]

Pretty sure there was a quote from a producer or director or something that had that number in it shortly before the game launched. I believe that was a worldwide figure though, or at least that's how I remember it.

Yes, in an interview the interviewer asked "TotA has just been released in Japan. How much do you expect to sell?", and the producer said something like "I'd say 250k, and we hope to release more Tales of games on 3DS". We haven't ever had official TotA expectations from Namco's financial reports, IIRC.

 

[radioheadrule83]

All my mates and I who are interested in this have said that's it's too expensive. If it was sub £200 quid then we'd bite. So yeah, cheaper price = more sales.

You'll be able to get it subsidised with a phone contract or something if that helps. I don't see a price cut in its near term future. They battled on with PS3 when it had bad numbers, they'll battle on with this. I'm not sure "coming first" is that important to them anymore. They have a longer term view.

 

[wrowa]

Pretty sure there was a quote from a producer or director or something that had that number in it shortly before the game launched. I believe that was a worldwide figure though, or at least that's how I remember it.

It was a quote from one of the developers, yes. I'm not sure if we should equal his expectations to Namco's expectations. I'm not sure if the development side has anything to do with the sales expectations and the budget of a game.

 

[test_account]

One step closer to a Vita price cut. Hopefully it'll happen before the western launch. Day 1 for me in that case. Bring it Sony!

The western launch is ~1 month away, you really think that they will drop the price now when a lot of people have preordered and payed for it? The prices are also announced, dropping them now might cause confusion (thinking about in EU/US then).

 

[cyberheater]

I don't see a price cut in its near term future.

Then it's going to fail. Pricing is the number one issue facing Vita at the moment.

 

[Penguin]

Let's try and back up that hope with some reality. In the next 6 months, what games do you think could give the Vita a boost? Are there enough of such titles for a sustained boost? What announcements could we expect which would help lift it from an early watery grave?

Even if they got an announcement out, like this month, we'd still be months away from seeing the game hit the console... unless they pull a Nintendo and announce and release with a short turn around.

It will be a rough few months to be sure

 

[electroplankton]

Probably, DQ is still selling...but yeah, it'll be much lower than the DS one, which was lower than the GBA one. 200k if it has long legs.

Ace Combat is bomba, no doubt about it, but really, I'd like to know about promotion, since I'm feeling it hasn't been promoted well enough, and not only with the stores completely hiding 3rd party minor games, as the ones near DCharlie do XD

...Yeah, where's Vinnk.

EDIT: Oh, yeah. Kagura did really well, true!

no way.
It will do half of what the DS one did AT MOST. I think it got also heavy price cut.
As for Ace Combat, no matter the promotion, blabla, it's selling bad.
There were third party games that performed well, and others not.

 

[P90]

The Vita lineup is considered bad now? News to me.

It doesn't have MH. Until then, the Vita will be in bad shape. In the US, it will be about the price of the system as the gateway to games.

 

[Laguna]

I think Vita will be a decent success eventually but probably will have a very slow first and second year, because obviously this sales aren´t really encouraging 3rd parties to put their games as early as possible on Vita and therefor some projects will be delayed in favor of more success promising titles on other systems. By then there´ll probably be a Vita revision (maybe even with video-out or built-in storage) and a kind of relaunch.

 

[Portugeezer]

coolguysdontlookatexplosionsiwata.jpg

No seriously, someone post it.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Wow, well let's hope for a turn around for the Vita.

 

[Femmeworth]

Ace Combat: Assault Horizon Legacy sold less(?) than the console game. *shakes head at Japan*

 

[Opiate]

The Vita lineup is considered bad now? News to me.

Okay, let's look at this from a different angle.

If we can agree that PSVita sales so far are poor -- and I'm assuming we can agree on that -- then there has to be a reason for that. Why is it selling poorly?

Is it the price? I don't think that's reasonable: we know the system is already being sold at a loss, and it seems unreasonable to ask that suggest that any system be sold at an even greater loss before we agree that the price is acceptable.

So is it the hardware? Sony could have reduced hardware capabilities (and in doing so, reduced the price range). This works for Nintendo. However, there are two problems; the increased hardware power is one of Vita's unique capabilities to distinguish it from the 3DS, and most of Sony's major titles are "cinematic" or highly realistic in style (Uncharted, Gran Turismo, God of War), which are the types of games which benefit particularly from raw technical power. Lastly, even if those other hurdles were gone, I think most of GAF does not like this solution.

Is it the network functionality? From what I've seen, it has the best network functionality of a portable system ever. But even if it didn't, this doesn't matter a great deal in Japan.

So what do you blame? Because the most logical culprit, to me, are the games. If you've got another explanation, though, please elaborate.

 

[Father_Brain]

Then it's going to fail. Pricing is the number one issue facing Vita at the moment.

It isn't. It would sell better at $200/20000Y, no question, but the biggest issue is the lack of broadly appealing software, and I honestly think it would struggle even if it were priced at parity with 3DS, barring some massive software releases.

 

[Plinko]

It isn't. It would sell better at $200, no question, but the biggest issue is the lack of broadly appealing software.

I disagree. I think there is a stigma at the $200 level for handhelds in the U.S.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Are you okay my friend? You look a bit faint. Did you eat something bad?

Spoiler

I'm sorry, I can't help myself. >_<

hehehe

Also it's said in every topic but I'll say it again. It's obviously the games that are the problem. They have zero games coming out with the potential to do 1 million. Or 500K. Or 300K? Especially in Japan.

 

[Mpl90]

coolguysdontlookatexplosionsiwata.jpg

No seriously, someone post it.

 

[Portugeezer]

I love you, thanks.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

http://garaph.info/labs/besttoworst.php//sys/PS2

EDIT: By the way, it seems that page isn't working for some systems.

Which ones weren't?

It's also interesting that there are more units capable of playing DSi-only games than standard DS games.

Going with Media Create
DS + Lite: 24.7 million
DSi + DSiLL + 3DS: 12.8 million
Perhaps your mistake was thinking of the second figure as being more than half of the first?

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

I disagree. I think there is a stigma at the $200 level for handhelds in the U.S.

Do you have anything to back this up? The point I've made in a few Vita threads is that we've never seen a scenario in which a handheld was relatively expensive ($200 or more) and featured a library with at least 1 "must-have" title (Mario Kart 7, Super Mario 3D Land, etc.).

In order to back-up your claim you must posit that the 3DS would have been unsuccessful at its $250 launch price-point even if games like MK7 and SM3DL were included in the launch line-up of software. Obviously there is no way to know for sure what the outcome of such a scenario would have been but I personally would not bet against the selling power of games of that caliber.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Is it the price? I don't think that's reasonable: we know the system is already being sold at a loss, and it seems unreasonable to ask that suggest that any system not being sold at a gigantic loss is simply not pricing itself well enough.

Why is it unreasonable? Perhaps there is a pricepoint above which people just won't bite on a dedicated gaming handheld (as opposed to a multipurpose device like a tablet, or a contract-subsidised smartphone).

 

[saichi]

The Vita lineup is considered bad now? News to me.

A lot of people have been saying VITA's announced software lineup doesn't sell in Japan and so it's been proven true.

I hope it does incredibly well forcing good games.

I thought the opposite would force good game. If a system is selling incredible well, developers would just make games with any quality to get a piece of that pie. If a system is struggling and yet a developer is making a game for it, the developer would make sure the game's quality is good so that it can stand out in the small user base.

As much as I think the Vita Japanese launch lineup is solid, meaning that the games are really good, it's true that there are next to none system sellers there. I wonder if Gravity Daze will be able to stir up sales.

Not likely.

This might be stretching, but what about Senran Kagura? I have no idea what the expectation for a niche boobs game would be, but it did move over 60k.

Senran Kagura definitely exceeded expectations with over 80K.

 

[electroplankton]

Okay, let's look at this from a different angle.

If we can agree that PSVita sales so far are poor -- and I'm assuming we can agree on that -- then there has to be a reason for that. Why is it selling poorly?

Is it the price? I don't think that's reasonable: we know the system is already being sold at a loss, and it seems unreasonable to ask that suggest that any system be sold at an even greater loss before we agree that the price is acceptable.

So is it the hardware? Sony could have reduced hardware capabilities (and in doing so, reduced the price range). This works for Nintendo. However, there are two problems; the increased hardware power is one of Vita's unique capabilities to distinguish it from the 3DS, and most of Sony's major titles are "cinematic" or highly realistic in style (Uncharted, Gran Turismo, God of War), which are the types of games which benefit particularly from raw technical power. Lastly, even if those other hurdles were gone, I think most of GAF does not like this solution.

Is it the network functionality? From what I've seen, it has the best network functionality of a portable system ever. But even if it didn't, this doesn't matter a great deal in Japan.

So what do you blame? Because the most logical culprit, to me, are the games. If you've got another explanation, though, please elaborate.

price + no big names + competition, imo.

Btw, the launch line-up wasn't so bad; a lot of games, most of them quite japanese-oriented.

 

[sixteen-bit]

This thread will be full of bitterness, starting with me : Spirit Camera :-(

Maybe the western sales can make up for it.

 

[Sleepy Buddha]

Except we just had the exact opposite happen with 3DS. Major price cut and 2 good games and the system took off like a rocket.

Vita will probably end up in the same place assuming they can come up with a franchise the West will buy a system for. I really hope it works out for Sony--more competition is great in the handheld area.

As I said, not that simple. 3DS had a price cut and 2 games that are system sellers, not just a price cut.

A price cut could help the Vita, but without good titles to support it, it would ultimately mean nothing. Getting good games should be Sony's priority, especially since they cannot have a price cut anywhere near the one the 3DS had.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Why is it unreasonable? Perhaps there is a pricepoint above which people just won't bite on a dedicated gaming handheld (as opposed to a multipurpose device like a tablet, or a contract-subsidised smartphone).

I really hope a Monster Hunter title hits the Vita before it ever sees a price-drop. In my mind that would be a great indicator as to what the major issue holding back the Vita is --- price or software.

I think both play a factor, of course, but I still think software is the largest one.

 

[Father_Brain]

I disagree. I think there is a stigma at the $200 level for handhelds in the U.S.

Vita has few to no software titles right now with realistic potential to sell 500K+ in any one territory (Uncharted and CoD, depending on the latter's quality, are the most likely exceptions). A platform in that position is going to struggle regardless of hardware pricing.

We'll never know how 3DS would have sold at $250 (or $200) with two holiday Mario titles (games that would normally be guaranteed to be multi-million sellers), but that's my gut feeling here.

 

[cyberheater]

Is it the price? I don't think that's reasonable: we know the system is already being sold at a loss, and it seems unreasonable to ask that suggest that any system be sold at an even greater loss before we agree that the price is acceptable.

I don't agree with this. As a consumer. I don't care how much money (or not) Sony are making on the hardware. When I look at the base price and see that it's nearly £100 more then a 3DS and more expensive then a brand new PS3 bundle complete with a game then yeah, it's 100% a pricing issue.

 

[herod]

Okay, let's look at this from a different angle.

If we can agree that PSVita sales so far are poor -- and I'm assuming we can agree on that -- then there has to be a reason for that. Why is it selling poorly?

Is it the price? I don't think that's reasonable: we know the system is already being sold at a loss, and it seems unreasonable to ask that suggest that any system be sold at an even greater loss before we agree that the price is acceptable.

So is it the hardware? Sony could have reduced hardware capabilities (and in doing so, reduced the price range). This works for Nintendo. However, there are two problems; the increased hardware power is one of Vita's unique capabilities to distinguish it from the 3DS, and most of Sony's major titles are "cinematic" or highly realistic in style (Uncharted, Gran Turismo, God of War), which are the types of games which benefit particularly from raw technical power. Lastly, even if those other hurdles were gone, I think most of GAF does not like this solution.

Is it the network functionality? From what I've seen, it has the best network functionality of a portable system ever. But even if it didn't, this doesn't matter a great deal in Japan.

So what do you blame? Because the most logical culprit, to me, are the games. If you've got another explanation, though, please elaborate.

I think it's option 5 - the market for premium portable gaming does not exist in significant numbers. I guess this is the hardware argument, but I do think it is ultimately the problem. People are aspirational, they want the best graphics and sound on a big TV. Sinking money into Vita is counter-productive to anyone who doesn't already have this. It seems like the most luxurious of products in an already luxury sector.

I also think people learned the hard way that they don't really need it with the PSP. Piracy was a pleasant side-effect (for them). Software sales kind of bear this out imo.

 

[enishi]

Okay, let's look at this from a different angle.

If we can agree that PSVita sales so far are poor -- and I'm assuming we can agree on that -- then there has to be a reason for that. Why is it selling poorly?

Is it the price? I don't think that's reasonable: we know the system is already being sold at a loss, and it seems unreasonable to ask that suggest that any system not being sold at a gigantic loss is simply not pricing itself well enough.

Selling at a loss does not mean the price is acceptable by general customers. A Porsche sports car with all latest technologies and polish does cost a lot. If they sell it to us at US$100000, they are selling at a loss. But if general customers cannot see its value (i.e. will not/unable to spend $100000 for a car), they still will not buy it.

Of course, price is not the sole factor. To me, lineup and big-hit titles mean more. But it does not change the fact that Sony (and Nintendo, for their initial pricing strategy on 3DS) has misjudged the market that Japanese are willing to pay $250 for a portable, at least for now.

 

[duckroll]

The Vita line-up is without a doubt bad. When I say bad, it is not a judgement on the quality of the games in the line-up. It is a judgement on the impact the titles have as a combined sum total in terms of market appeal. It simply isn't there.

Are there a lot of games if we're counting every title equally? Sure.

Is there any outstanding anchor title which will draw consumers to the system? No.

Is there a combination of interesting titles with mindshare or market traction which could draw a significant number of people to the system? No.

Hence it is a poor line-up, and has directly played a factor in the Vita not taking off. Not hard to understand at all. If you dispute this, feel free to contest the claim by suggesting why you feel the line-up is strong, and what appeal the line-up has either in terms of single titles or a combination of available titles right now, to the general Japanese consumer.

 

[Opiate]

Why is it unreasonable? Perhaps there is a pricepoint above which people just won't bite on a dedicated gaming handheld (as opposed to a multipurpose device like a tablet, or a contract-subsidised smartphone).

Because the system is already being sold at a loss? Let's say the system costs 300 dollars to manufacture and distribute, just for simplicity's sake. I would argue that any rational person would agree that 300 dollars is a reasonable price for that product; the manufacturer is making zero dollars on it! Very few manufacturers in any industry would sell a system for net 0 value.

But instead, the Vita is being sold for 250 dollars, which means Sony is losing money on every system sold. If that's not a good price, then what is? If a price isn't "good" until the manufacturer is losing 100-120 dollars per unit, then we have an extremely warped sense of what good pricing is.

This is very much like the PS3, were many people claimed the price of the PS3 at launch was the problem, when it clear wasn't. The system was sold at such a great price -- and Sony lost so much money selling it at that price -- that it very nearly broke Sony in the process, and Sony is not a small company. The price of the PS3 was not the problem, the problem was that the system cost too much to manufacture.

 

[cw_sasuke]

In my opinion, total bombas were Dead or Alive: Dimensions, Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime 3 and Ace Combat now.
Also Senran Kagura did very, very well (80k IIRC).

Slime Mori 3 isnt a total bomba at all - the snd game didnt sell much more on the DS and i dont thing that SE expected +100K sales from it. I`ll agree with DoA Dimensions though.

 

[JordanLMiller]

07./00. [3DS] Spirit Camera: The Cursed Memoir <ACT> (Nintendo) {2012.01.12} (¥3.800) - 16.351 / NEW

Why do we get this but not TLS or Pandora?

 

[duckroll]

I'm going to help Opiate dumb down his message in case those arguing still don't get it. He's saying that the Vita is not overpriced, but rather that there is no room in the market for a product of the Vita's caliber at that price range.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I really hope a Monster Hunter title hits the Vita before it ever sees a price-drop. In my mind that would be a great indicator as to what the major issue holding back the Vita is --- price or software.

I think both play a factor, of course, but I still think software is the largest one.

I'm sure it's a factor of both, software + price

 

[Sealda]

Is that a real leather suit?