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[Tripon]

I don't think that N priorities handheld, honestly. The priority comes just from the timings of Hardware releases.

Btw, I agree at least partially with Nirolak's Wii U-3DS analysis and I absolutely agree with Opiate's Vita analysis.

More like its hedging its bets, I'd say.

There's a reason why the new Zelda game is coming on the 3DS and the new Zelda Wii U game has been put on the backburner to push out Wind Waker HD and Link between Worlds.

Nintendo still won't put out a legit Pokemon game on consoles, (although that seems to be just as much as the Pokemon company not wanting to do it, as much as Nintendo).

I think people would have been really responsive to a traditional over the top Zelda on consoles. But that game is coming on the 3DS, and I canceled by pre-order on Mario 3D World because it was coming out on the same day as Link Between Worlds.

 

[Aostia]

More like its hedging its bets, I'd say.

There's a reason why the new Zelda game is coming on the 3DS and the new Zelda Wii U game has been put on the backburner to push out Wind Waker HD and Link between Worlds.

Nintendo still won't put out a legit Pokemon game on consoles, (although that seems to be just as much as the Pokemon company not wanting to do it, as much as Nintendo).

I think people would have been really responsive to a traditional over the top Zelda on consoles. But that game is coming on the 3DS, and I canceled by pre-order on Mario 3D World because it was coming out on the same day as Link Between Worlds.

Develpping games takes time, as knowing the hw.
They put Oot remake on 3DS before, and now a new Zelda.
They are putting a WW remake on Wii U, and later a new Zelda.
They weren't ready with the new episode for 3DS, so took time with a remake (quicker to be done), and the same for the Wii U games: make an entirely new game takes time, meanwhile put out a remake (quicker to be done)
I also think that a top down zelda is a better fit for hendhelds while the home version should be more "cinematographic", so no top down view.
If there is a franchise on which their route is quite clear is zelda imho.
I don't understand at all the Mario-Zelda thing, anyway...

 

[Shahed]

Definitely interested in the bold titles. Vita Tv better be here by next year.

I can understand wanting Vita TV for most of those titles. I'm of a similar mind.

But why FFX/X-2 HD? If you wanna play on a TV with a controller, why not get the PS3 version? Won't it be cheaper and look/run better?

 

[Opiate]

Why can't it be something other than any of the things you listed?

Okay, that's possible.

Basically the market that the Vita was going for was already gone and taken up by 2 different things. I feel the same way about the Wii U. Nintendo didn't beat next gen to the punch, they were 7 years late to last gen.

The reason I feel this is a bad explanation is that it has no explanatory power. You're essentially saying "the Vita is selling poorly because the market no longer wants it," but then that simply leads to the question of why the market doesn't want the Vita and is choosing other devices instead.

Why are consumers choosing other devices instead? Why does the market no longer want a device like the Vita, but instead prefers devices like the 3DS and the iPhone?

 

[Cuddler]

Sony got lucky with the PSP, that's all. It would've suffered the same fate as the Vita if third parties hadn't cone along and put a massive quantity of content on it. Today, though, things have changed. 3DS is powerful enough to handle those games, and Nintendo actually supports their platform. Sony can't sit back again and just hope for a miracle. They need to be proactive, and they need to utilize their top developers on the platform, to show consumers and publishers that Vita is more than a PS4 controller. That's why I keep saying Sony has to do more. It's up to them to prove their system is a must-have, much like it's up to Nintendo to do the same for Wii U. The difference? Nintendo seems to get it, even if it's taking them a long time to fix the matter. Sony seems oblivious to the problems, and it almost seems like they just don't care enough to help the Vita out.

Can't you say the same for every Sony console in Japan??? I don't think third party support can be considered luck.

 

[BadWolf]

And I would say Freedom Wars, Over My Dead Body 2, Gravity Rush 2 and Soul Sacrifice Delta can be considered major Sony support. The only thing bigger that they have is Gran Turismo.

What I really like about Sony's support for Vita is that a lot of it is through brand new IP.

 

[zroid]

Also bear in mind, the Wii U's chief gimmick borrows directly from the 3DS/DS. The entire concept of the system has massively backfired. It's quite a sad sight to behold.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I can understand wanting Vita TV for most of those titles. I'm of a similar mind.

But why FFX/X-2 HD? If you wanna play on a TV with a controller, why not get the PS3 version? Won't it be cheaper and look/run better?

I only want to play FFX

 

[Opiate]

Can't you say the same for every Sony console in Japan??? I don't think third party support can be considered luck.

I agree in general. I think you might be able to make the case if Sony had a single, well supported system in their history, but the consistency with which they've had strong support strongly suggests more than just random chance.

One can use the same basic logic for Nintendo; if the Wii came out of nowhere, you could probably argue that Nintendo's success with the system was just luck. They happened to find the right recipe by chance. However, the fact that the DS exists, and the Gameboy and the original NES suggests they have a particular knack for coming up with these sorts of unexpectedly hit devices.

At this point the strengths of the different manufacturers are pretty well understood, and have long enough history to not be simply attributed to luck.

 

[Aostia]

I agree in general. I think you might be able to make the case if Sony had a single, well supported system in their history, but the consistency with which they've had strong support strongly suggests more than just random chance.

One can use the same basic logic for Nintendo; if the Wii came out of nowhere, you could probably argue that Nintendo's success with the system was just luck. They happened to find the right recipe by chance. However, the fact that the DS exists, and the Gameboy and the original NES suggests they have a particular knack for coming up with these sorts of unexpectedly hit devices.

At this point the strengths of the different manufacturers are pretty well understood, and have long enough history to not be simply attributed to luck.

once again I agree with you.

 

[casiopao]

From the top of my head

Final Fantasy X/X-2
Phantasy Star Nova
Soul Sacrifice Delta
Freedom Wars
Samurai Warriors 4
Project Diva f2
Over My Dead Body 2
Gravity Rush 2
Dangan-Ronpa Another Chapter
Disgaea 4

Mmmm. While i am not 100% sure here, isn't FF, Samurai Warriors and Project Diva is going to be released on other platform too? and Disgaea 4 is port?

And i am also not really sure on how will Vita TV help vita here especially in Japan here where handheld is preferred and PS4 is coming soon.

 

[SmokyDave]

What I really like about Sony's support for Vita is that a lot of it is through brand new IP.

Whilst I like that as a gamer, I'm not sure it's a wise strategy for sales success.

 

[cafemomo]

But why FFX/X-2 HD? If you wanna play on a TV with a controller, why not get the PS3 version? Won't it be cheaper and look/run better?

Because no one in their right mind would want to play X-2 on a large screen for everyone to see

Final Fantasy is still a strong name but it's not as strong as you think it is. And that's for the new entries and not a 10 yr old port. The strong name of Final Fantasy doesn't do much for Lighting Returns.

FFX is a very beloved title in Japan and arguably one of the best FF.

Also, Lightning Returns will sell wonderfully. I can feel it

 

[Zoe]

I thought the latest was that the supposed December date was fake, but that could be old info.

Last trailer changed to say winter instead of 2013.

 

[The Horror the horror]

What I really like about Sony's support for Vita is that a lot of it is through brand new IP.

For the most part, their older, more console-centric IPs are commercial failures on their handhelds, so it's not like they have a choice.

 

[Mpl90]

Because no one in their right mind would want to play X-2 on a large screen for everyone to see


FFX is a very beloved title in Japan and arguably one of the best FF.

Also, Lightning Returns will sell wonderfully. I can feel it

You're an amazing comedian, seriously. :lol

 

[darkside31337]

Okay, that's possible.

The reason I feel this is a bad explanation is that it has no explanatory power. You're essentially saying "the Vita is selling poorly because the market no longer wants it," but then that simply leads to the question of why the market doesn't want the Vita and is choosing other devices instead.

Why are consumers choosing other devices instead? Why does the market no longer want a device like the Vita, but instead prefers devices like the 3DS and the iPhone?

The advantage the PSP had over the DS was in hardware power. There were games on the PSP that simply couldn't happen on the DS both because of the lack of any kind of stick and mainly due to lack of power. The Vita still has an advantage over the 3DS in some aspects but the 3DS is "good enough". No longer was their handheld incapable of running certain types of games that made the PSP popular.

The PSP always lagged behind the DS in terms of first party support. The overwhelming majority of Sony's franchises don't translate well to handheld form, and with almost of all Sony's internal development coming from Western studios there wasn't much demand or desire to make handheld games. This has been true for many years before the Vita was a thing.

I don't think its a hardware or advertising thing. The Vita is a relic of the past, a system made for a market that doesn't exist. With the decrease in the size of the dedicated handheld market people have gone from DS + PSP to simply 3DS + Phone. The software part I kind of agree with. Losing Monster Hunter was the final death knell for the Vita. It was the only game that by definition was a system seller on the PSP.

 

[cafemomo]

You're an amazing comedian, seriously. :lol

how? sans the overdoing of the costumes and the fanservice which I don't agree should be in a FF game LR looks to be a promising game

 

[Shahed]

I only want to play FFX

That makes sense. I'm not really interested in X-2 either. Will still get the PS3 version though since the family can play as well due to Vita's stupid single account system

The FF XIII brand isn't particularly well liked, XIII-2 sold pretty badly (for a FF title) and didn't restore much faith in the brand. I don't see why this one would do any better. It's not going to sell "wonderfully" at all.

I guess we just can't feel it

 

[Alrus]

how? sans the overdoing of the costumes and the fanservice which I don't agree should be in a FF game LR looks to be a promising game

The FF XIII brand isn't particularly well liked, XIII-2 sold pretty badly (for a FF title) and didn't restore much faith in the brand. I don't see why this one would do any better. It's not going to sell "wonderfully" at all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I saw some Scribblenauts Unmasked commercials on Comedy Central.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Is Take-Two Interactive publishing GTAV in Japan themselves?
And how does the publishing relationship work if they aren't and Capcom, for instance, is publishing it in Japan - in terms of division of revenue? Or for example with ActiBlizz and Square Enix for COD.

 

[cafemomo]

I don't see why this one would do any better. It's not going to sell "wonderfully" at all.

I can see LR reach XIII-2 numbers LTD (which was like, 800K?)

 

[Opiate]

The advantage the PSP had over the DS was in hardware power. There were games on the PSP that simply couldn't happen on the DS both because of the lack of any kind of stick and mainly due to lack of power. The Vita still has an advantage over the 3DS in some aspects but the 3DS is "good enough". No longer was their handheld incapable of running certain types of games that made the PSP popular.

The PSP always lagged behind the DS in terms of first party support. The overwhelming majority of Sony's franchises don't translate well to handheld form, and with almost of all Sony's internal development coming from Western studios there wasn't much demand or desire to make handheld games. This has been true for many years before the Vita was a thing.

I don't think its a hardware or advertising thing. The Vita is a relic of the past, a system made for a market that doesn't exist. With the decrease in the size of the dedicated handheld market people have gone from DS + PSP to simply 3DS + Phone. The software part I kind of agree with. Losing Monster Hunter was the final death knell for the Vita. It was the only game that by definition was a system seller on the PSP.

If your explanation is correct (and I'm not sure it is), then that strikes me as exactly what "bad hardware" is: hardware which is not adapted to the modern market. I mean, if "bad hardware" only meant systems that literally broke within months of launch or were faulty out of the box or something, then almost nothing would be considered bad hardware.

More commonly, bad hardware is hardware which doesn't appeal to the market. I'm not personally convinced that's the problem, but you seem to be. You're just not phrasing it that way for some reason.

 

[SmokyDave]

That strikes me as exactly what "bad hardware" is; hardware which is not adapted to the modern market. I mean, if "bad hardware" only meant systems that literally broke within months of launch or were faulty out of the box or something, then almost nothing would be considered bad hardware.

Generally, bad hardware is hardware which doesn't appeal to the market.

I don't buy that. It's the package that matters, not part of it in isolation.

Perhaps I just can't wrap my head around the concept that the 3DS hardware is 'good' and the Vita hardware is 'bad'. You definitely need a very specific definition to be able to say that with any conviction.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I don't buy that. It's the package that matters, not part of it in isolation.

Perhaps I just can't wrap my head around the concept that the 3DS hardware is 'good' and the Vita hardware is 'bad'. You definitely need a very specific definition to be able to say that with any conviction.

The 3DS is "good" hardware, or rather a "good" product, as it's selling. The Vita is a "bad" product.

Not in the personal, "I love my Vita," way.

In the, "the product isn't appealing to the market at large," way.

 

[Opiate]

I don't buy that. It's the package that matters, not part of it in isolation.

Perhaps I just can't wrap my head around the concept that the 3DS hardware is 'good' and the Vita hardware is 'bad'. You definitely need a very specific definition to be able to say that with any conviction.

I also don't personally think the Vita hardware is the primary problem, I'm simply operating off darkside's premise. If a high powered, traditional portable gaming system is not suited to the modern market, then that is by definition a bad piece of hardware.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

That makes sense. I'm not really interested in X-2 either. Will still get the PS3 version though since the family can play as well due to Vita's stupid single account system



I guess we just can't feel it

Me and my sis just share one account so its okay.

I can see LR reach XIII-2 numbers LTD (which was like, 800K?)

You are delusional.

 

[SmokyDave]

The 3DS is "good" hardware, or rather a "good" product, as it's selling. The Vita is a "bad" product.

Not in the personal, "I love my Vita," way.

In the, "the product isn't appealing to the market at large," way.

Precisely, that's why I was saying it's the whole package. I won't argue with 'the Vita is a bad product', but I'll be long dead before I ever agree that it's 'bad hardware'. Except the thoroughly pointless rear touch, of course.

I also don't personally think the Vita hardware is the primary problem, I'm simply operating off darkside's premise. If a high powered, traditional portable gaming system is not suited to the modern market, then that is by definition a bad piece of hardware.

Ah, I see what you're saying. I'd still say 'bad product' before I went with 'bad hardware'.

 

[Opiate]

The 3DS is "good" hardware, or rather a "good" product, as it's selling. The Vita is a "bad" product.

Not in the personal, "I love my Vita," way.

In the, "the product isn't appealing to the market at large," way.

This is a good summary. There are other markets where I don't think wide market adoption is a strong indication of quality, but in this particular industry (i.e. entertainment), I think it's as good a measuring stick as is possible.

I certainly don't think the amount of gigaflops and the screen resolution are necessarily good indicators. If the markets cares about those things, then they are good indicators; if people don't seem to care about those things, then they aren't. It simply depends on what people find fun, and it's possible that not many people think their "fun" is increased significantly by having a larger screen or better graphics in the modern age.

 

[saichi]

Can't you say the same for every Sony console in Japan??? I don't think third party support can be considered luck.

Sony got lucky with PSP that MH turned into a phenomenon. If you were to tell me in 2008 that a new 3rd party franchise would come out and be bigger than DQ in Japan, I would think you are crazy. MH's popularity lead to 3rd party support PSP ended up getting. Without MH, PSP wouldn't get the same support.

What I really like about Sony's support for Vita is that a lot of it is through brand new IP.

And ironically 3 out of 4 titles you quoted are already sequels.

 

[Tripon]

Also bear in mind, the Wii U's chief gimmick borrows directly from the 3DS/DS. The entire concept of the system has massively backfired. It's quite a sad sight to behold.

No the chief gimmick is off screen play and streaming capabilities. We're moving into an era of one console covering multiple screens.

 

[cafemomo]

You are delusional.

yeah ok whatever

 

[Opiate]

.Ah, I see what you're saying. I'd still say 'bad product' before I went with 'bad hardware'.

It's getting in to a semantic argument, but I definitely do not think bigger screens or more processing power are in themselves proof of better hardware. For entertainment purposes (as opposed to scientific purposes, for example) those things are only valuable as long as we decide they are.

While I don't entirely agree with darkside, I do think it's possible we're entering an age when most people simply don't think better graphics or higher resolutions or bigger production values actually make things more fun. That doesn't mean you have to agree, of course. But I think if we look at the broader context (the rise of DS and 3DS, the explosion of iOS and social games, etc.) there seems to be a broad trend away from advanced graphics and tech as a strong indication of fun and quality.

Again, just for emphasis: it does not mean you personally have to prefer the iPhone or the 3DS, or that you have to feel that graphics don't matter any more just because other people don't seem to care about them. I'm talking broadly and not specifically.

 

[Principate]

Sony got lucky with PSP that MH turned into a phenomenon. If you were to tell me in 2008 that a new 3rd party franchise would come out and be bigger than DQ in Japan, I would think you are crazy. MH's popularity lead to 3rd party support PSP ended up getting. Without MH, PSP wouldn't get the same support.



And ironically 3 out of 4 titles you quoted are already sequels.

TBF PSP had a lot of good will ps2 support at the beginning since many thought it would be the next big handheld. Then it sorta dried up with MH giving it a second lease.

 

[VAPitts]

A remake on a dead system surely doesn't help. For every upcoming Wii U title we must lower expectations to zero and start from there. I have a very bad feeling for 3D World. NSMBU bundle will lower even more its sales.

Came Center DX 3 limited edition will be 50k sets.



3DS won't need 2.5 years for 7 million. At the end of 2014 or start of 2015 it will be there.

Unless the famous Vita recover, because it's a Sony product and Sony always makes it, starts next year.

The Almighty, ALL KNOWING charts god has spoken...

 

[Metallix87]

No the chief gimmick is off screen play and streaming capabilities. We're moving into an era of one console covering multiple screens.

Agreed. People are selling the gimmick short, but that's likely because Nintendo hasn't done enough to show the public at large how awesome it can be.

 

[Cuddler]

Okay, that's possible.



The reason I feel this is a bad explanation is that it has no explanatory power. You're essentially saying "the Vita is selling poorly because the market no longer wants it," but then that simply leads to the question of why the market doesn't want the Vita and is choosing other devices instead.

Why are consumers choosing other devices instead? Why does the market no longer want a device like the Vita, but instead prefers devices like the 3DS and the iPhone?

I completely agree.

Sony got lucky with PSP that MH turned into a phenomenon. If you were to tell me in 2008 that a new 3rd party franchise would come out and be bigger than DQ in Japan, I would think you are crazy. MH's popularity lead to 3rd party support PSP ended up getting. Without MH, PSP wouldn't get the same support.

I don't think it's all luck, they designed the PSP in a way that something like Monster Hunter would have been possible on an handheld, without that PSP hardware, the Monster Hunter you can see on the chart today wouldn't even exists, it would have probably been Onimushaed by now.

Spoiler

Poor Onimusha

 

[saichi]

TBF PSP had a lot of good will ps2 support at the beginning since many thought it would be the next big handheld. Then it sorta dried up with MH giving it a second lease.

That's kind of my point. With all the early 3rd party support, PSP didn't do that well in Japan. Sony was lucky that MH turned into a phenomenon which leads to the strong sale of the system. PSP has its best selling years when MH games were released (2007, 2008, 2010).

I don't think it's all luck, they designed the PSP in a way that something like Monster Hunter would have been possible on an handheld, without that PSP hardware, the Monster Hunter you can see on the chart today wouldn't even exists, it would have probably been Onimushaed by now.

Spoiler

Poor Onimusha

I think you are missing the point. The luck part is how big MH turned out to be.

 

[zroid]

No the chief gimmick is off screen play and streaming capabilities. We're moving into an era of one console covering multiple screens.

Agreed. People are selling the gimmick short, but that's likely because Nintendo hasn't done enough to show the public at large how awesome it can be.

Maybe so, and I can certainly appreciate the value of Off-TV play personally, but at least on a fundamental level, you can see how the Wii U aping the 3DS so strongly, both in terms of hardware and software is having negative repercussions. Off-TV play itself, you could argue, just leads people to think "okay, but why not just play my actual handheld instead?" --> 3DS

 

[Kid Ying]

Bamco just announced Disney Infinity's release date: 28/11 for both 3DS and Wiiu version. It's just a week after Taiko wiiu too. Let's see what happens. Skylanders never even charted any of it's skus, but Disney has a much bigger name in there and it's just following on the sucess of another 3DS title...

 

[frankie_baby]

Bamco just announced Disney Infinity's release date: 28/11 for both 3DS and Wiiu version. It's just a week after Taiko wiiu too. Let's see what happens.

I know the ps360 versions arent but Is the Wii version not coming out in Japan too?

 

[Kid Ying]

I know the ps360 versions arent but Is the Wii version not coming out in Japan too?

Nope. Right now, the only Wii game to be released in Japan is DQX expansion.

 

[Cuddler]

I think you are missing the point. The luck part is how big MH turned out to be.

The post I quoted said that Sony got lucky with the PSP, and that's all. How is that only luck? A powerful hardware is a feature of a system, exactly like the wiimote for the Wii, the dual screen for the ds, etc...A lot of third party games have become succesful thanks to Nintendo with both the dual screen on the DS and with the wiimote on the Wii. I don't think it's only luck, it's thanks to the feature of the system that the games are possible and/or succesful.

 

[frankie_baby]

Nope. Right now, the only Wii game to be released in Japan is DQX expansion.

That's quite surprising, it does seem to me that japanese publishers seemed to all but abandon the wii (and the ds for that matter) a little too soon, last year saw barely any games released but respectable numbers for the ones that did

 

[L Thammy]

Identifying the reasons for Vita's struggles seem very challenging for most because it's such a hardcore focused device that very few people like to find fault with it.

Nobody wants to blame the hardware, but few want to blame the software, either. Many people want to argue that the hardware is amazing and the lineup is great, but one of those things has to be untrue for the system to be selling like it is. From an objective perspective of course; you're perfectly allowed to subjectively love the Virtua Boy's lineup, if you so desire.

In these sorts of situations, people tend to place all the blame on advertising, because it allows the product to escape unscathed; it isn't the system or the game's fault, it's just that Sony (or Nintendo or Microsoft) aren't properly communicating how amazing and awesome this system and its games are. I don't mean to suggest advertising never matters at all, but people disproportionately rely on this explanation because it allows them to avoid blaming the system. In the case of Vita, the sales have been so terrible that something else must be going on.

After the recent revival of the Monster Hunter Vita fuss, I had been thinking that this is why a few people like to blame factors outside of the control of the hardware manufacturers. That is, Vita was killed because evil Nintendo stole Monster Hunter in a criminal contract. Evil publishers didn't give Wii U the chance it needed. Evil racist Japanese refuse to buy Xbox. Not to say that everyone's saying these things, mind you, but I do think these sentiments tend to float around.

What these things ignore is that these sort of events should be predictable - any corporation or consumer can be expected in their own interest - and that the console manufacturers create the situation that these outsiders react to. When a system "never got a chance" it could very well because the hardware manufacturer screwed up last time. When the outside party sees that the issue has not been resolved, they believe that the situation will be the same and react the same way. You cannot directly control that outside actor, but if influence the situation correctly you can persuade that actor to act more favourably.

The sun and the wind, so to speak.

 

[sörine]

Precisely, that's why I was saying it's the whole package. I won't argue with 'the Vita is a bad product', but I'll be long dead before I ever agree that it's 'bad hardware'. Except the thoroughly pointless rear touch, of course.

I think a lot of criticsm could be leveled at the memory card soultion too. That's one hardware area where 3DS definitely trumps Vita soundly.

 

[zroid]

*just saw the last page*

how the heck did we end up with list wars in a MC thread? jesus

 

[Chris1964]

I can see LR reach XIII-2 numbers LTD (which was like, 800K?)

Even if it manages to sell as much as the overshipped XIII-2 that's not "wonderfully" at all.

You must have a passion with FF in general.

 

[Chris1964]

Impressions from retailers

MH4 and 3DS LL demand remains high for both, stock problems continue.

Spoiler

Get ready for really low Zelda numbers