Fushitsusha
Banned
I'm convinced by this idiot's screeching. Fuck Donald Dump!!!*
(*Said from Europe!)
Two scoops
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- Status
(*Said from Europe!)
Two scoops
MetalAlien
Banned
I mean war is hell. If this isn't war what is? The cops are barely doing anything other than punishing people for defending themselves. Rioters are pulling guns on people, or attacking in mass if you try to going around or slip past them.
Unless mass arrests happen after the election how to you guys think this is going to play out?
We're still on a video game message board. There are other places on the net to express extremist positions (left or right). This isn't one of them.
This isn't war by any stretch. We don't want to see real war.
MetalAlien
Banned
Yea guess you're right on that one...
Not so sure about that one, but it is your message board.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Naah, I am here..
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The general moral principle of "words before physical violence" doesn't go out the window just because some people are acting up.
"War is hell" was coined by General William Tecumseh Sherman, a Union soldier who was describing the Civil War. A war that involved an actual treasonous act of attempting to overthrow the USA and left over 600,000 dead.
If this isn't war, what is?
This is war:
This is war:
This is war:
This is war:
That is hell.
Civil unrest? Not war. It's summer camp by comparison.
MetalAlien
Banned
Someone is aiming a green laser sight at me.. They are not a very good shot.
MetalAlien
Banned
Acting up? You are showing advanced stages of war... this is just the start of it... give it time.The general moral principle of "words before physical violence" doesn't go out the window just because some people are acting up.
"War is hell" was coined by General William Tecumseh Sherman, a Union soldier who was describing the Civil War. A war that involved an actual treasonous act of attempting to overthrow the USA and left over 600,000 dead.
If this isn't war, what is?
This is war:
This is war:
This is war:
This is war:
That is hell.
Civil unrest? Not war. It's summer camp by comparison.
This is war, not only that, it's a world war. Welcome to the beginning of WWIII.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Calling it a "war" when it clearly isn't one is an exaggeration. If you actually convince yourself that it is a war, then you may fall into the faulty thinking that you are justified in taking extreme actions that you might not otherwise take in normal circumstances.
"acting up" was used to put into context the relative seventies of rioting vs literal war.
MetalAlien
Banned
The state of denial you have achieved is impressive. Do you think this will all just go away because...I dunno hamster.... help me here.... when will this go away? What makes violence go away? Hmmm let me think hard...
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's called using the vocabulary that most accurately reflects reality. The only "war" we're experiencing is in the metaphorical sense, like a "class war". The time to call this an actual war is when it is an actual war, and not before.
Be thankful that you're lucky enough to live in the most peaceful era of human civilization in recorded history, in the richest nation that has ever existed on Earth, and that the chances that you'll ever see an active combat zone of an actual war in your personal life, is historically very small.
MetalAlien
Banned
I'll keep that in mind.
-Arcadia-
Banned
I don't think it's war yet. I think it's still avoidable, or I'd be sounding every alarm.
That said, we are close enough to recall my worst fears, and it's disturbing to see scenes play out on the streets of all major cities, that strongly resemble and hint at that, as well as the aftermath often looking like bombed out Middle Eastern cities. Likewise, a major portion of people who have permanently separated themselves from reality, and do not understand anything of compromise, but rather seeking to smash out all dissidence, usually ends one way.
My hope is that they're their own worst enemy. That their extremism will turn sane people against them, and more and more, they'll be marginalized as the group nobody wants to associate with, as a proper, classical left kicks back into action. They've certainly shown that pattern.
My only problem is that requires a whole lot of faith in people. If I had faith in people, none of this stuff would have been allowed to get this far in the first place, and would have been shut down by popular opinion in its early stirrings on campuses and the internet.
That said, we are close enough to recall my worst fears, and it's disturbing to see scenes play out on the streets of all major cities, that strongly resemble and hint at that, as well as the aftermath often looking like bombed out Middle Eastern cities. Likewise, a major portion of people who have permanently separated themselves from reality, and do not understand anything of compromise, but rather seeking to smash out all dissidence, usually ends one way.
My hope is that they're their own worst enemy. That their extremism will turn sane people against them, and more and more, they'll be marginalized as the group nobody wants to associate with, as a proper, classical left kicks back into action. They've certainly shown that pattern.
My only problem is that requires a whole lot of faith in people. If I had faith in people, none of this stuff would have been allowed to get this far in the first place, and would have been shut down by popular opinion in its early stirrings on campuses and the internet.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Sometimes bad ideas need to be realized to their logical conclusions before true believers actually realize that they were in fact bad ideas. Sometimes not even then. Cultural change doesn't mimic the decision tree of an individual. This is an emergent behavior from the aggregate actions of millions, and sometimes things get weird.
-Arcadia-
Banned
As far as the other thing, if you step into someone's home, they have their own expectations and rules for how people should conduct themselves in that home, and if you're going to come in, you acquiesce to those rules, no matter what.
I can certainly understand and respect wanting to keep Gaf a positive place.
To offer my opinion, I simply see Politics as it's own forum, rather than being an off-shoot of a gaming one. In fact, with it's moderation that allows people of all persuasions (besides the obvious ones) to speak their piece, it's actually far better than almost all dedicated politics communities, and we see that with posters of both persuasions settling almost exclusively in Politics.
I also feel that as a reflection of the world, and a place with dedicated commentary for the times and world events, if things look really dark outside, they're going to naturally look a little dark on a board like that.
As all along, nobody should be whipping up armies or murderous intent on Gaf. That's a complete mismatch with what the site is all about. Likewise, an army that would start firing on itself the second someone mentioned PS or Xbox, wouldn't be too effective. I just hope there's tolerance and understanding for people who are afraid, angry, or blowing off steam with humor, at things they never should have had to experience, until we hopefully get back to lighter times.
I can certainly understand and respect wanting to keep Gaf a positive place.
To offer my opinion, I simply see Politics as it's own forum, rather than being an off-shoot of a gaming one. In fact, with it's moderation that allows people of all persuasions (besides the obvious ones) to speak their piece, it's actually far better than almost all dedicated politics communities, and we see that with posters of both persuasions settling almost exclusively in Politics.
I also feel that as a reflection of the world, and a place with dedicated commentary for the times and world events, if things look really dark outside, they're going to naturally look a little dark on a board like that.
As all along, nobody should be whipping up armies or murderous intent on Gaf. That's a complete mismatch with what the site is all about. Likewise, an army that would start firing on itself the second someone mentioned PS or Xbox, wouldn't be too effective. I just hope there's tolerance and understanding for people who are afraid, angry, or blowing off steam with humor, at things they never should have had to experience, until we hopefully get back to lighter times.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Based on my observations over the last decade, I fear this.
I certainly hope for the former, though. For as much tremendous loss as there's been (now extending to lives extinguished), if we could walk back from all of this with a teachable lesson, how wonderful that would be.
I want a world where I don't have to worry about what even the next year will look like, where I'm not having thoughts about, 'Do I need to prepare for this?', for myself and my loved ones.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
This isn't meant as a disagreement, but there is a whole thread dedicated to making fun of another forum that is full of people who are fragile enough to think that they are being persecuted and murdered by an "other" group when in reality that is actually not the case. This is something that anyone can succumb to, even people on this forum, no matter how tough, enlightened, or "above it all" they fancy themselves to be. Those who might mock the former and yet still overgeneralize the threat of another "other" group to the point where vigilante violence is a more and more justifiable action and the conflict is labelled as something more serious than it actually is, are only contributing to the growing irrationality and not trying to put a damper on it. It is a classic case of acting on feelings over facts, and "it's ok when we do it".
-Arcadia-
Banned
To compare fear of the state of modern society, to the hysterical left's hallucinations, with so much documented evidence, places you squarely out-of-touch with reality itself.
That's a classic, as Matt would say, big brain both sides, argument.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I think you missed the point of the comparison.
Overstating the threat of a scapegoat and using it to justify otherwise immoral actions in lieu of other, more reasonable actions, because feelings, is not rational, and should be observed early, lest it manifest into something worse.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Hard to do that when the comparison is fundamentally, offensively flawed.
People and families worried about the constant escalation of hostilities in society, as well as concerning wide-ranging social changes, and how to move forward, have nothing in common with with the imaginary persecution complex of the left.
You are comparing the delusions of a rambling mental patient concerned about the walls eating them, with a regular person afraid for themselves and the people they care about, based on what they see every time they look out their metaphorical window.
brap
Banned
I'm convinced by this idiot's screeching. Fuck Donald Dump!!!*
(*Said from Europe!)
Two scoops
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The triggers that lead an individual or a group to rationalize immoral actions like unjustified violence can arise from the most benign or seemingly righteous intentions. For all the crap that
Schrödinger's cat
gets for his aggressive posting style, he's at least consistent on this point, because it's an important one. If you allow irrational behavior to take hold because you think it's justified, then that's another "it's ok when we do it" moment.Additionally, because I suspect this part might be confusing you:
This isn't a "both sides" argument or "equally bad" argument. I didn't speak at all to the magnitude or severity of each situation. I'm also pointing out the specific actions taken within a specific context of a specific line of reasoning.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
They've burnt down towns, there's a body count and they have demands for our surrender. We just haven't been doing much fighting back.
-Arcadia-
Banned
The triggers that lead an individual or a group to rationalize immoral actions like unjustified violence can arise from the most benign or seemingly righteous intentions. For all the crap that
Additionally, because I suspect this part might be confusing you:
This isn't a "both sides" argument or "equally bad" argument. I didn't speak at all to the magnitude or severity of each situation. I'm also pointing out the specific actions taken within a specific context of a specific line of reasoning.
I think what might be 'confusing me', is one hamster's frequent disassociation with reality, and even what's being said in the thread. I'm starting to think it might even be on purpose.
Do me a favor. Engage with me, and reality, as they are, no matter the subject. I always seem to have good conversations with you, until that happens. I want more of the former, less of the latter.
-Arcadia-
Banned
B-b-but people heckin' said things on the internet in response to all that they know and love being torn down, extinguishing of life and incredible violence, and burning major cities across the country.
You can't just have a problem with that, or have moral standards, and get sad/angry/upset when every one of them is violated, and the world of you and your children is being irreparably ruined!
V-v-violence could happen! (ignores everything going on)
The greatest generation would have a good laugh at this line of thought.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I pointed out how calling things what they are not is not a good idea. You even agreed with me.
This sentence embodies what I was talking about.
You then said this:
Which is not what I was doing. I'm not making an equivalency proposition. I'm using a common point of agreement to demonstrate how similar flaws in reasoning can potentially lead to bad results. Sometimes one needs to look outwards because introspection has an unconscious wall due to the propensity of the fundamental attribution error.
I'm sure there must be many proven examples of this, then? In reality, of course.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Multi-quotes, how tiresome.
And that isn't the problem, is it, if I agree with you? Common sense, hamster.
You either don't understand the difference between people reacting naturally to what's being brought to their doorsteps, and imaginary foes, or choose not to. An argument based on a flawed pretext, no matter the goal, is not a good one.
Sure. Scroll up. I particularly like the part where accurately portraying current times in the US is an overstatement.
You have fun now. I have no time for conversation that's continually spiraling into a bunch of irrelevant, flawed nonsense, either because of an adherence to pseudo-intellectualism, or because the participant 'must win'. It's a waste of everyone's time, including those non-participants who are forced to read it.
And that isn't the problem, is it, if I agree with you? Common sense, hamster.
You either don't understand the difference between people reacting naturally to what's being brought to their doorsteps, and imaginary foes, or choose not to. An argument based on a flawed pretext, no matter the goal, is not a good one.
Sure. Scroll up. I particularly like the part where accurately portraying current times in the US is an overstatement.
You have fun now. I have no time for conversation that's continually spiraling into a bunch of irrelevant, flawed nonsense, either because of an adherence to pseudo-intellectualism, or because the participant 'must win'. It's a waste of everyone's time, including those non-participants who are forced to read it.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If we agree then there's nothing to discuss.
Actually I do understand the difference. That's why I pointed out how I acknowledged that difference. What you're not seeing is how employing flawed reasoning doesn't solve the problem. You don't fight fire with fire, in this case. I pointed out an example of how this leads to bad things as a cautionary tale, which you then errantly interpreted as a both sides argument.
edit: This is also why I prefaced my point with "this isn't meant as a disagreement". I'm elaborating on your observation. There are some people at a crossroads now, and what path they decide to take is going to influence their actions greatly in the future. I pointed out how we've already seen how one path is a known failure and that it's best to avoid similar missteps.
"frequent" disassociation is one example? That's not even correct? You and I both agreed that it's not "war" yet.
Just trying to communicate an idea. Trying to keep the arguments focused on the actual points of contention. There is no winning. Just discussion.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's for clarity. It's harder to parse what responses pair with what points if it's all in one block. Multiple points require multiple quotes.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Hideous Snake
Gold Member
Good evening ladies and gentlemen
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Welcome back
Starlight Lotice
Member
The funny part in all of this is....I bought some a few hours before hand in the Canaries!
Yeah...one doesn't work well.
Regsrding events I take a break from GAF more often than not as I am just here to talk about Games and SEGA news.
I go in Politics very rarely and tend to stop myself posting more often than not as I don't want to be dogpiled on taking a middle ground on events occuring (I tried it once and got called s Ree member unjustifyingly simply because I do not believe it is 100% of one side or the other). I give respect to those who have a differing opinion but my No.1 rule is to never get personal with someone and sadly that is what I see in most of the threads, so I stay out of those now and I have placed certain individuals on ignore who I know I can't get along with rather than continue a pointless argument. The posts above highlight the worries I have about certain viewpoints getting nasty when we are here to talk and respectfully argue our cases. Left or Right we should have respect for one another.
Most members here are fun to talk to and usually get involved when I can but I tend to not be as regular as I used to be due to life and personal reasons.
So if you don't really see me much, it isn't really because of happenings in GAF but mostly because of other things outside of the Internet.
Hope members here understand!
Edit: Opps, I am 2 pages behind! I meant regarding what
-Arcadia-
said about the Violent stuff.
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Hideous Snake
Gold Member
Thank you
Richard Packer
Member
Hope everything is well with you brother.
Hideous Snake
Gold Member
All is good brother. Been playing Legends of Runeterra a lot and I don't even like deck building games
This one hit differently though somehow
-Arcadia-
Banned
Gotta toughen up. Being called a Ree member is nothing compared to what I've had slung my way. People getting heated with each other is not the worst thing to happen, within a certain level of tolerance. The fact that you only took that from the above discussion, and not how ridiculous the conversation was becoming, to invite that level of discourse, says it all.
Likewise, not every opinion or take is worthy of respect.
Your posts in particular tend to hit the max level of Drumph bad, why nobody else think Drumph bad? Immediate engagement of hostilities, met with hostilities.
Try adjusting your approach, and not phrasing your curiosity in a context where you're the all-knowing sage, and the scrambling peasants have to answer to you. Many make that mistake.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
THE PS5 SHOW WILL BE THE HYPEST SHIT EVER... or it won't and I'll be like WTF SONY, YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!
Richard Packer
Member
I'm definitely going to give that a shot. I've heard nothing but good things.
Starlight Lotice
Member
Eh? It's not the Ree thing that got me, it's that I was trying to explain my reasonings and it hit a nerve which I didn't expect.
I disgree there as some people do say dumb stuff, we all do it but that doesn't mean you can't try and educate someone if you feel it is dumb.
I have said some positives of Trump about acting against China and only mentioned one thing that I disagreed with, I don't know where you are getting this "Drumph bad" concept from at all. Most of my posts are in Gaming these days so I honestly don't get this point.
I feel like you are looking too hard into my posts and painting me as someone who needs to get in line or else when it is the first time I actually opened up here on GAF.
Like I said I like most members here but you do see the passive agressive approach more and more.
I didn't honestly expect you to call me an All Knowing Sage when I am just here to have a laugh mostly.
Just to clarify, I am not here to argue a case or anything but duly noted if you want to argue the case for things.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
-Arcadia-
without going too much into it...Some people want to be seen as an Expert or are otherwise only in it for personal gratification. These make their nature known over time, as the pull for emotional gratification slowly overwhelms their ability to keep playing to cool, collected Thinker.
Others invest the time to state their case and build a reputation over time. They aren't afraid to be challenged, to correct others, or to learn from mistakes and misunderstandings. These also make their nature known over time.
GAF's community is flourishing because an increasing number of people are choosing to engage in the latter, it just takes time.
Hideous Snake
Gold Member
Missed you too homie
Yeah I'll be around =)
Its very generous for a f2p game. You can unlock cards without paying anything
-Arcadia-
Banned
Eh? It's not the Ree thing that got me, it's that I was trying to explain my reasonings and it hit a nerve which I didn't expect.
I disgree there as some people do say dumb stuff, we all do it but that doesn't mean you can't try and educate someone if you feel it is dumb.
I have said some positives of Trump about acting against China and only mentioned one thing that I disagreed with, I don't know where you are getting this "Drumph bad" concept from at all. Most of my posts are in Gaming these days so I honestly don't get this point.
I feel like you are looking too hard into my posts and painting me as someone who needs to get in line or else when it is the first time I actually opened up here on GAF.
Like I said I like most members here but you do see the passive agressive approach more and more.
I didn't honestly expect you to call me an All Knowing Sage when I am just here to have a laugh mostly.
Just to clarify, I am not here to argue a case or anything but duly noted if you want to argue the case for things.
Simply going off your history. I specifically recall the incidents where you got accused of being a Ree'er, and the actions that led to them. It was not undeserved.
Likewise, your concept of me telling you to get in line with my last post, versus giving you helpful, productive advice, as well as directly implying Trump supporters as dumb people that need to be educated, betray your worldview.
You serve it up hot, and don't seem to like it when people start slinging it back, or disagreeing.
I'm not here to condemn you for that, nor is any of this negatively tinged, or angry. I'm simply providing you some observations I've made, that relate to what you brought up, and why you're experiencing the things you are.
Starlight Lotice
Member
Again, I do not see where I called any Trump supporter dumb and I stated my case clearly without resorting to calling anyone back. (I Believe the argument waa last year and since then I refrained from my own opinion, that is not what I would call beytraying my World View).
I am not a fan of Boris but I don't go out of my way to condemn everything he does.
I said that because you told me to change my ways, and given I used to be pressurised as a kid to take a side in gangs, please understand that I will take that as a stick to a lane.
Again, I didn't sling anything up hot. If someone doesn't like it, then fair enough but at least give me your viewpoints in respect instead of retorting to insults (not you of course).
Duly noted but please understand that I am someone who does not try and rock the boat, if you will. I am happy to listen and give my own feedback with due respect.
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-Arcadia-
Banned
Some people want to be seen as an Expert or are otherwise only in it for personal gratification. These make their nature known over time, as the pull for emotional gratification slowly overwhelms their ability to keep playing to cool, collected Thinker.
Others invest the time to state their case and build a reputation over time. They aren't afraid to be challenged, to correct others, or to learn from mistakes and misunderstandings. These also make their nature known over time.
GAF's community is flourishing because an increasing number of people are choosing to engage in the latter, it just takes time.
I disagree that cool and collected = thinker.
Nobody is more collected than Nobody_Important, yet, nobody would think that suggesting him as a profound thinker was anything but nonsense. On the contrary, he hides behind that persona, twisting words and events to suit his agenda.
The words and actions are what matters. Not the optics. The idea that someone is speaking passionately, thus have nothing meaningful to say, is an ignorant one based around modern pseudo-intellectual nonsense. Do the words resonate? Do they express an idea worth considering? Then be as angry as you want.
A calm, quiet person can be an idiot, as much as a heated person. A heated person can be as profound as a calm, quiet person.
Wisdom is found in every nook and cranny in this world. Be careful not to arbitrarily restrict what you receive it from.
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-Arcadia-
Banned
That said,
Regardless of how you post, this is the holy grail. Unfortunately, I don't think a large amount of these people exist, either on Gaf, or in general.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
- Status