Silent Chief
Member
It's pretty obvious. If Trump wanted to win he'd release his income tax statement, but as he doesn't he'll never do it.
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Michael Moore: Trump never wanted to win. Purposefully sabotaging his campaign
- Thread starter Smellycat
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It's pretty obvious. If Trump wanted to win he'd release his income tax statement, but as he doesn't he'll never do it.
Oppo
Member
you guys trashing Moore as an idiot - this says a lot more about yourselves than it does him.
you can disagree of course but he's obviously not a "moron"... Roger and Me and Fahrenheit 9/11 were seminal films, sorry to break it to you
I despair of gaf's habit of placing personalities into little boxes and never re examining them again.
you can disagree of course but he's obviously not a "moron"... Roger and Me and Fahrenheit 9/11 were seminal films, sorry to break it to you
I despair of gaf's habit of placing personalities into little boxes and never re examining them again.
Yeah people on both sides have been thinking this. It could just be people trying to justify Trump losing but I think on some level they have a point. Either way he's a yahoo, either he really believed all the crazy or he intentionally fucked with the presidency for his benefit. No scenario is beneficial to him at this point.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
Just a few weeks ago Moore was saying that Trump Was going to win because of his campaigning in swing states.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Narcissists usually implode because of their inability to handle rejection or loss of status. Most of the time, they do it in a way that is "correct" to them. Trump's campaign isn't a deliberate attempt to drop out of the campaign. It is a reflection of a narcissistic personality trying desperately to hold on to his status of importance in the eyes of the people he believes really love him.
plagiarize
Banned
I used to like Moore, until he painted Charlton Heston as a racist, and then claimed he never intended to give people that impression. Heston was a gun nut, and a very right wing guy for sure, but a racist he was not.
Moore made a strongly worded prediction, has realized that it's not going to happen, and so is falling back on a dumb conspiracy theory rather than admitting his prediction was way off base.
He is a smart guy, but his ego doesn't let him admit when he's wrong, as he was with his 'Trump WILL win' nonsense. So now, he's posted something that basically says 'Look, I'm only wrong about Trump winning because Trump is purposefully throwing the election.'
Moore made a strongly worded prediction, has realized that it's not going to happen, and so is falling back on a dumb conspiracy theory rather than admitting his prediction was way off base.
He is a smart guy, but his ego doesn't let him admit when he's wrong, as he was with his 'Trump WILL win' nonsense. So now, he's posted something that basically says 'Look, I'm only wrong about Trump winning because Trump is purposefully throwing the election.'
Slurpy2k20
Member
Oh, fuck off. This shit doesn't work anymore. Maybe Trump didn't want to win, but there is no way Moore knew this "for a fact". And if he did, he sure as fuck wouldn't be revealing this now.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Why are people so obsessed with nobodys who will do anything for attention? Michael Moore is full of shit like he always is.
The first half is super obvious to anyone who's been following Trump's "history" with politics - get on stage, talk a big game, reap the publicity, go home. It's just this time, for some godawful reason, he got showered with praise and attention, so he never bothered going home.
The whole "intentionally fucking up" bit is pure speculation and, frankly, I think the dude's just an asshole with no idea what he's doing.
The whole "intentionally fucking up" bit is pure speculation and, frankly, I think the dude's just an asshole with no idea what he's doing.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
Yes indeed. Both those movies were incredible and important. And you are 100% right with that last statement. Some on gaf, I'd even say a lot of people on gaf, are constantly chomping at the bit to jam a branding iron into people so they can forever just glance at the brand and go "oh yeah we don't like this person" without having to actually put some thought or consideration into what is being said or what they are doing.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I think re-examining is exactly how people are coming to their conclusions here. Take this recent contradiction, for example:
Publicly states that Trump will definitely win.
Then a week later, stating as a matter of fact, a story about how his candidacy came to be and reasons why winning was never going to happen.
Then in that same statement, he says 'how about this for another theory' and speculates like he's just making up a scenario just like thousands of gaffers have over the course of the primary.
Now, if he knows Trump and knows the situation, why publicly state with confidence that he's going to win? Why discredit yourself within the same statement by floating out a theory right after stating something as fact?
ZackieChan
Member
Diprosalic
Banned
i think it's the other way around, if he wants to lose he'd release his taxes.
I wouldn't exactly call it an accomplishment to (hopefully) beat a guy who insults soldiers, mexicans, is seemingly stupid or at least extremely ignorant, is unlikable as hell, has no idea what he's talking about most of the time and seems to be a pathologogical lier. To name just a few things.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Yeah, his treatment of Heston was inexcusable.
hydrophilic attack
Member
You know, I branded Moore as a smart guy after those films. Now, recent events are making me re-examine that evaluation
It's definitely an interesting time to be back!
Ninja Scooter
Member
Moore's relevance is tied to their being upheaval and uncertainty with the government. That's not to say he's not sincere in a lot of his endeavors or films. He needs people to think the sky is falling.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
Hopefully the GOP is smart and sinks all their money into down ticket races to hold the senate.
Let Hillary have the White House, and enjoy being stonewalled for the better part of a decade.
Let Hillary have the White House, and enjoy being stonewalled for the better part of a decade.
Mighty Chin
Banned
The sky is falling is a GOP tactic.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
If this was a normal person maybe I could entertain it. Trump though, through everything he has said and done this cycle has shown him to be a buffoon. Especially the intimate look into his mind from his ghostwriter. This is Trump, there is no ulterior movtive or master plan.
FriendlyGoat
Member
Okay, but did you actually read his confidently worded statement or the planned follow up (which he said to stay tuned for in his first letter) where he wrote on 5 ways to make sure Trump loses? It's very clearly a call to arms and not some definitive declaration, as per his style. He's not discrediting himself, people have already made their mind up about Michael Moore, seemingly without understanding what he is saying.
ElectricThunder
Member
Folks have to understand, as with the last Moore thread, that the dude is legitimately terrified of a Trump presidency and thoroughly depressed that it even had a chance to come to this after all he saw during the Bush admin and recent times with the ongoing Flint crisis---as such, he's flailing in a panic towards anything and everything that could take the wind out of his sails or bolster the opposing ones at the least.
This whole state of affairs is sapping the life right out of the man---as he is indeed a man as opposed to the mere convenient caricature that Team America reduced him to as an easy foil to craft.
The only person who's probably fallen about as far in public sentiment despite a complicated backdrop is Cornel West, and while both oft at least unwittingly exacerbate it, each dude is one of the last of their stock so to speak---not so unlike how the comedic world lost a bit of a certain something after George Carlin passed.
This whole state of affairs is sapping the life right out of the man---as he is indeed a man as opposed to the mere convenient caricature that Team America reduced him to as an easy foil to craft.
The only person who's probably fallen about as far in public sentiment despite a complicated backdrop is Cornel West, and while both oft at least unwittingly exacerbate it, each dude is one of the last of their stock so to speak---not so unlike how the comedic world lost a bit of a certain something after George Carlin passed.
Sensible chuckle.
The guy literally came out a few weeks ago proclaiming Trump is our next president.
Fast forward 3 weeks, and now he never wanted to be president in the first place?
He's a hack.
Mighty Chin
Banned
I don't think you are paying attention.
BlastProcessing
Member
You are defending Moore by only mentioning stuff he did over a decade ago and we're the ones who never re-examine things? Ok.
People who do good and seminal work often end up falling off the wagon. People can't just get a free pass on their prior achievements.
I think the whole idea of Trump not wanting to be president is completely stupid.
Becoming president would be the ultimate validation and the ultimate achievement. He would instantly become the most famous person in the world and would be in the public eye and have people hanging on his every word for the rest of his presidency. The idea that a raging narcissist doesn't want that is just nonsense.
Now, I think it is perfectly reasonable to guess that he doesn't actually want to do the work that is involved being president. He just wants to be the figurehead.
As for people who say that his political miss-steps recently are proof that he didn't want it, I don't buy that at all. That is just who he is, a racist, fascist narcissist who can't let a slight go, especially from minorities.
He might now be aware that his chances of winning are basically nothing and is changing plans with the Brietbart guy, but I am sure he wanted it the two weeks after his RNC speech when he was fucking up constantly. Fucking up isn't proof thatt he didnt want to be president. Fucking up is proof that he is is just tempermentally unfit to be president due to his narcissism and complete lack of self-control.
Becoming president would be the ultimate validation and the ultimate achievement. He would instantly become the most famous person in the world and would be in the public eye and have people hanging on his every word for the rest of his presidency. The idea that a raging narcissist doesn't want that is just nonsense.
Now, I think it is perfectly reasonable to guess that he doesn't actually want to do the work that is involved being president. He just wants to be the figurehead.
As for people who say that his political miss-steps recently are proof that he didn't want it, I don't buy that at all. That is just who he is, a racist, fascist narcissist who can't let a slight go, especially from minorities.
He might now be aware that his chances of winning are basically nothing and is changing plans with the Brietbart guy, but I am sure he wanted it the two weeks after his RNC speech when he was fucking up constantly. Fucking up isn't proof thatt he didnt want to be president. Fucking up is proof that he is is just tempermentally unfit to be president due to his narcissism and complete lack of self-control.
TheRagnCajun
Member
Isn't this all a little elaborate for Trump to get a TV deal?
...and?
A. This was before Trump went into disaster mode after the RNC.
B. Moore thinking it was likely that he might win doesn't invalidate the notion that Trump never meant for the campaign to get this far. Aside from the fact that if you read this piece he mentions point A as factoring into this theory.
Version 3.0
Member
I can buy that story, sure. But that story doesn't show "Trump never wanted to win". It spells out "Trump initially didn't think he would win".
He clearly wanted to win once he was winning, and the story says the same. Walking it back to the beginning once he starts losing is bull. You ignore months of "wanting to win".
In the end, though, it's not really Donald Trump that I want to see lose. It's the extreme right wing base that I want to see lose. If Trump never ran, they'd be Cruz or Rubio or Bush supporters. And though they might be quieter and not incited to violence, they'd be even more dangerous, because Cruz or Rubio or Bush would probably not be 10 points behind right now.
He clearly wanted to win once he was winning, and the story says the same. Walking it back to the beginning once he starts losing is bull. You ignore months of "wanting to win".
In the end, though, it's not really Donald Trump that I want to see lose. It's the extreme right wing base that I want to see lose. If Trump never ran, they'd be Cruz or Rubio or Bush supporters. And though they might be quieter and not incited to violence, they'd be even more dangerous, because Cruz or Rubio or Bush would probably not be 10 points behind right now.
TurboLibre
Member
I don't think saying saying he might win contradicts this article though. He's saying Trump doesn't want to win, and accidentally fell into a position where it may be possible. Thats why he's sabotaging himself almost daily. I didn't see the previous article though so I don't know.
Even still, attacking his character doesn't change anything. The article here does make a good point.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
BlastProcessing
Member
Trump didn't shift into some sort of disaster mode after the RNC. He has been incredibly consistent. For Pete's sake, Trump claimed that Ted Cruz's dad assassinated JFK during the primaries! Trump hasn't changed!
What Moore and Trump have in common is a inability to differentiate between what can work in a Primary and what can work in a General Election. Trump fell apart after the RNC because that is when most people payed any attention to the Election.
The article makes it seem like he's got it on pretty good grounds from a number of sources that he can't really say.
Plus, why would people trash him for going back on what he said before? He thought that, during the convention, America would be dumb enough to elect him. Now, with new info, he thinks Trump will do everything he can to not be elected. Not really contradictory if you consider the timeline.
Yep.
And if he believed that Trump was going to sabotage himself at some point because he didn't want the presidency, why claim he was going to win the election? Which is it?
echoshifting
Banned
Well, here it is:
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
He didn't say he MIGHT win. He said he WILL win.
Obviously I'm referring to the back to back events of the Khan family, Second Amendment People, Purple Heart etc. and the disaster poll numbers that followed.
Prior to the convention, similar mistakes didn't effect him as much in the polls due to the primaries not being the same type of ballgame. So....logic follows that Moore's pre-convention assumptions were plausible since Trump's poll numbers hadn't tanked yet.
Either way the two statements about Trump aren't related....how are people not separating this? Moore thinking Trump can/will win doesn't have anything to do with the idea that Trump started his campaign not as seriously as it then became with his primary success.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I really like this theory, the source aside...
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