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[thesoapster]

Perhaps not, but I'm still against cock fights. I think that kind of thing is sick. Watching the demise of an animal for pleasure and cash is fucking disturbing, no matter the animal.

Because I'm an American living on mid east coast of the United States, I would tend to agree with you. However I'm sure if you were born elsewhere you would be just as adamant to your cultural raising and perspective.

 

[maynerd]

Did those same serial killers play any video game in their life? If so video games lends to being a serial killer.

Yes because torturing an animal is the same thing as playing halo.

 

[mckmas8808]

Perhaps not, but I'm still against cock fights. I think that kind of thing is sick. Watching the demise of an animal for pleasure and cash is fucking disturbing, no matter the animal.

.

What about fishing? I mean seriously.

 

[theviolenthero]

I wonder who's gonna be let out of prison early to make room for Vick??

My bet goes to a child molester.

 

[thesoapster]

Yes because torturing an animal is the same thing as playing halo.

:lol

If anyone dares to start talking about this issue...oh man. This thread had better be locked, then.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

If you can hang a dog, electrocute, beat and drown them and sit there with a straight face then you should be able to stomach the same things being done to a human.

That is where you are wrong, each person has their own set of morals.

Please refer to Police Battalion 101, the German execution squad that went from town to town executing Jews.

They considered the Jews to be no better than dogs but when they had to shoot a non-Jewsih Polish (I think) woman for hiding Jews most of the squad felt saddened to have killed a "human being" and the commanding officer allowed the men several days off and to take leaves of absence if required.

Anyway my point is if you can kill a dog with no emotions it doesn't not necessarily mean humans are on the same level to a certain person. Everyone has a different standard of morals and what is right and wrong. At least in Vick's case it was only dogs, I know it is harsh to say but I would rather not have humans electrocuted, drowned, and beaten to death.

I am in no way defending Vick or killing animals as I hate cruelty but I was just trying to show my point of view on the above quoted.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes because torturing an animal is the same thing as playing halo.

It's not. My point is just because some serial killers tortured dogs before doesn't mean all dog fighters will rape or murder humans.

 

[LJ11]

If Vick came clean from the get-go, he would of gotten off much easier. He continued to lie even after accepting the plea deal, and even got caught smoking dope. He's a fool, deserves a long sentence just for his arrogance and stupidity. On the bright side, I no longer have to deal with Vick users on Madden. :lol

 

[maynerd]

It's not. My point is just because some serial killers tortured dogs before doesn't mean all dog fighters will rape or murder humans.

Who said "all"?

 

[WickedAngel]

Did those same serial killers play any video game in their life? If so video games lends to being a serial killer.

Playing videogames does not have any immediate correlation with a disposition to violence/sadism.

Destroying an animal and destroying a human aren't terribly different. We hold the lives of people in higher regard but the simple truth of it is that we are animals ourselves. Highly evolved animals, but animals no less.

Other mammals are just as vulnerable to fear/pain as we are. Whether or not they can reflect on that pain isn't really relevant and I doubt that anyone here would use that justification to defend someone who was torturing a mentally handicapped human.

 

[mrmrec2]

i can see how people are upset that while this was being played out all over the media, serious crimes to HUMANS were being ignored, locally and interantionally(ie. the war in Iraq).

While we inflict and fall victim to thousands of murders in Iraq, we are talking about a animal torture as if we have the right to judge. Guess what if you eat any type of animal then you have no room to wish death upon Vick.

Did he deserve to go to jail? Absolutley

Does he deserve 2 yrs? I don't think so

Does this story deserve to be what every American talks about? Hell no, we need to get our priorities straight, and address the real crimes that are happening on our behalf.

 

[thetrin]

what about before video games were invented?

Rock music. Duh.

 

[Big-E]

Who said "all"?

Exactly, all I said was if you can stomach that type of gross brutality to something that feels pain its not much of stretch to say that some could stomach it when its being done to another.

EDIT: I am not trying to label dog fighters this way I am labeling Vick this way because of the methods he used outside of dogfighting. If you can sit there with a straight face while a dog is taking its last breath gasping for air and feel rosy in the morning then something is wrong with you and it is not much of a stretch to say he could do it to another human being. Vick isn't even sorry for what he had done. If he did he would have straightened out and done what the judge asked him to do, he didn't do this and is getting what he deserves.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

While we inflict and fall victim to thousands of murders in Iraq, we are talking about a animal torture as if we have the right to judge. Guess what if you eat any type of animal then you have no room to wish death upon Vick.

Did he deserve to go to jail? Absolutley

Does he deserve 2 yrs? I don't think so

Does this story deserve to be what every American talks about? Hell no, we need to get our priorities straight, and address the real crimes that are happening on our behalf.

I think there's a broad enough news cycle that the average human can actually commit their attention to all of them at the same time.

And, sorry, I don't think the vegetarian card is applicable here at all. Exactly what nutritional purpose does Vick electrocuting a dog in his backyard serve?

 

[WickedAngel]

i can see how people are upset that while this was being played out all over the media, serious crimes to HUMANS were being ignored, locally and interantionally(ie. the war in Iraq).

While we inflict and fall victim to thousands of murders in Iraq, we are talking about a animal torture as if we have the right to judge. Guess what if you eat any type of animal then you have no room to wish death upon Vick.

Did he deserve to go to jail? Absolutley

Does he deserve 2 yrs? I don't think so

Does this story deserve to be what every American talks about? Hell no, we need to get our priorities straight, and address the real crimes that are happening on our behalf.

...there are any number of stories that do/don't get publicity for reasons that have nothing to do with their significance.

News agencies waste months and months droning on about stories of even less significance. For fuck's sake...there was a period of months in 2005 where you couldn't turn on a news channel without hearing about the mundane non-news regarding Terry Schiavo.

News agencies couldn't possibly report every murder/rape that occurred in the United States (Let alone elsewhere).

There are legitimate reasons for fishing/hunting/butchering that have been outlined hundreds of times before in previous threads. There is no good reason to torture an animal to death, period. I would have more sympathy for Michael Vick if he had simply given them a quick death but he didn't even have the decency to do that. This was entertaining to him.

 

[thetrin]

What about fishing? I mean seriously.

For pleasure? I think fishing and hunting for pleasure are stupid and wrong. Now, if you then eat that animal, then that's fine.

 

[teruterubozu]

i can see how people are upset that while this was being played out all over the media, serious crimes to HUMANS were being ignored, locally and interantionally(ie. the war in Iraq).

While we inflict and fall victim to thousands of murders in Iraq, we are talking about a animal torture as if we have the right to judge. Guess what if you eat any type of animal then you have no room to wish death upon Vick.

Did he deserve to go to jail? Absolutley

Does he deserve 2 yrs? I don't think so

Does this story deserve to be what every American talks about? Hell no, we need to get our priorities straight, and address the real crimes that are happening on our behalf.

Thanks for your contribution on this sensational story.

 

[mckmas8808]

Exactly, all I said was if you can stomach that type of gross brutality to something that feels pain its not much of stretch to say that some could stomach it when its being done to another.

EDIT: I am not trying to label dog fighters this way I am labeling Vick this way because of the methods he used outside of dogfighting. If you can sit there with a straight face while a dog is taking its last breath gasping for air and feel rosy in the morning then something is wrong with you and it is not much of a stretch to say he could do it to another human being. Vick isn't even sorry for what he had done. If he did he would have straightened out and done what the judge asked him to do, he didn't do this and is getting what he deserves.

Who said he had a straight face? Maybe he hated every minute of it, but did it because he thought he had to.

 

[maynerd]

i can see how people are upset that while this was being played out all over the media, serious crimes to HUMANS were being ignored, locally and interantionally(ie. the war in Iraq).

While we inflict and fall victim to thousands of murders in Iraq, we are talking about a animal torture as if we have the right to judge. Guess what if you eat any type of animal then you have no room to wish death upon Vick.

Did he deserve to go to jail? Absolutley

Does he deserve 2 yrs? I don't think so

Does this story deserve to be what every American talks about? Hell no, we need to get our priorities straight, and address the real crimes that are happening on our behalf.

You mean like Anna Nicole stuff or the latest husband killing his pregnant girlfriend? Come on man this is how american news works.

 

[WickedAngel]

Who said he had a straight face? Maybe he hated every minute of it, but did it because he thought he had to.

There are more efficient means of killing animals than hanging/electrocuting them. It's obvious that effort went into making this as amusing as possible for the involved parties.

He owned the kennels. He was a celebrity in their eyes. Please don't try to paint Vick as the unwilling participant.

 

[Big-E]

Who said he had a straight face? Maybe he hated every minute of it, but did it because he thought he had to.

He had to hang his dog? He had to electrocute them to death? He had to drown them? Im sorry but that is absurd.

 

[harSon]

You're a sick fuck you know that.

I would never dress a dog and I don't know if I'd equate killing animals to people, but your disdain for those of us who mourn the loss of an animal sickens me.

I'm man enough to admit I cried when my dog died earlier this year. Yes he wasn't a person, but he was a friend and had been a part of my family. Thankfully he got to live a long and happy dog life, but if he'd died some other horrible way it would've been much worse.

Yes, the fact that I do not condone violence towards animal and find it barbaric to do it intentionally with no reason to do so (for food) am a sick fuck for not putting an animal anywhere near the same pedestal as a human? If thats what puts me on the 'sick fuck' wagon then I'm all for it.

Maybe you haven't lost close friends and family to violence, try living in the Homewood area of Pittsburgh for most of your life. That drunk driving man slaughter story I was talking about earlier was about my sister. My baby brother was killed by a bullet ricocheting off of a metal bar and entering his neck. I am the product of my mother being raped. So please fucking excuse me if I don't see an animal being on par with a fucking human. The death of an animal will NEVER hurt me anywhere near the death of a loved one or even a human I don't know.

 

[Big-E]

Yes, the fact that I do not condone violence towards animal and find it barbaric to do it intentionally with no reason to do so (for food) am a sick fuck for not putting an animal anywhere near the same pedestal as a human? If thats what puts me on the 'sick fuck' wagon then I'm all for it.

Maybe you haven't lost close friends and family to violence, try living in the Homewood area of Pittsburgh for most of your life. That drunk driving man slaughter story I was talking about earlier was about my mother. My baby brother was killed by a bullet ricocheting off of a metal bar and entering his neck. I am the product of my mother being raped. So please fucking excuse me if I don't see an animal being on par with a fucking human.

Thats a sad story but you should not have said that you don't understand why people can't grieve an animal. Your words were really harsh and made us look like a bunch of cry babies. I have lost loved ones, both human and non human and I have cried equally for all of them. Just because an animal can't talk does not mean they can't touch in similar ways that people can.

 

[IanZ]

People don't get sentenced for cutting a dear's head off and hanging it over a fireplace, or skinning a bear to use it as a rug so why does Vick have to suffer so much for what he did to dogs? What make them so special over other animals? Do whale hunters get 23 months sentences? And really, replace Vick with Brady, what kind of treatment would he get then? (You have to blame Vick's attorney here for not even warning him about having to take a drug test, that was really dumb on his part)

 

[Chichikov]

And, sorry, I don't think the vegetarian card is applicable here at all. Exactly what nutritional purpose does Vick electrocuting a dog in his backyard serve?

I hate dragging vegetarianism into animal cruelty story, but I fail to see your point.
Nutritional purpose?
Would eating them made it better?
And as far as cruelty goes, your average farm cow lives a much more painful and miserable life than Vick’s dogs.

 

[Big-E]

Whale hunting is banned in North America I believe unless you are Native and even then they are looking to ban it after what happened in the Pacific North West last year. I think hunting for trophies is wrong but I only hope that deer and bears are dead when they are mutilated for trophies. Vick tortured the dogs, I hope a majority of hunters don't do that.

EDIT: That Vick/Brady argument is retarded. If anything Vick is getting more apologists because they argue its part of his culture. That wouldn't fly with Brady.

 

[mrmrec2]

Yes, the fact that I do not condone violence towards animal and find it barbaric to do it intentionally with no reason to do so (for food) am a sick fuck for not putting an animal anywhere near the same pedestal as a human? If thats what puts me on the 'sick fuck' wagon then I'm all for it.

Maybe you haven't lost close friends and family to violence, try living in the Homewood area of Pittsburgh for most of your life. That drunk driving man slaughter story I was talking about earlier was about my sister. My baby brother was killed by a bullet ricocheting off of a metal bar and entering his neck. I am the product of my mother being raped. So please fucking excuse me if I don't see an animal being on par with a fucking human. The death of an animal will NEVER hurt me anywhere near the death of a loved one or even a human I don't know.

Well when you put it like that, who can argue?

Anyone...I got nothing /thread

 

[WickedAngel]

Whale hunting is banned in North America I believe unless you are Native and even then they are looking to ban it after what happened in the Pacific North West last year. I think hunting for trophies is wrong but I only hope that deer and bears are dead when they are mutilated for trophies. Vick tortured the dogs, I hope a majority of hunters don't do that.

Not to mention the fact that it is extremely important that their populations be kept in check. That said, I doubt there are any laws out there that would protect the act of electrocuting/hanging them.

 

[Big-E]

Not to mention the fact that it is extremely important that their populations be kept in check. That said, I doubt there are any laws out there that would protect the act of electrocuting/hanging them.

That incident in the Pacific North West I mentioned was controversial because the Natives did not use traditional hunting tools but machine guns and it took the whale 6 hours to bleed out from the gun shot wounds. If the Natives hunted in a traditional way I don't think there would have been a big backlash.

 

[mrmrec2]

I hate dragging vegetarianism into animal cruelty story, but I fail to see your point.
Nutritional purpose?
Would eating them made it better?
And as far as cruelty goes, your average farm cow lives a much more painful and miserable life than Vick’s dogs.

And that goes for most animals we eat. (sure they may not get tortured but that depends on your definition of torture. Still they still get killed and cut into little pieces)

 

[Chichikov]

Whale hunting is banned in North America I believe unless you are Native and even then they are looking to ban it after what happened in the Pacific North West last year. I think hunting for trophies is wrong but I only hope that deer and bears are dead when they are mutilated for trophies. Vick tortured the dogs, I hope a majority of hunters don't do that.

Compare what Vick did to his dogs to the treatment that your average chicken, cow or duck gets in a big industrial farm.
How’s one acceptable and one is torture?

 

[WickedAngel]

And that goes for most animals we eat. (sure they may not get tortured but that depends on your definition of torture. Still they still get killed and cut into little pieces)

Find a cost-effective way to house every slaughter-cow in condos and I'm sure the farmers will oblige.

Compare what Vick did to his dogs to the treatment that your average chicken, cow or duck gets in a big industrial farm.
How’s one acceptable and one is torture?

One is necessary for the survival of our country. One isn't.

Figure out which is which and you get a cookie. That retarded argument comes up in every fucking thread for this subject.

 

[BSsBrolly]

People don't get sentenced for cutting a dear's head off and hanging it over a fireplace, or skinning a bear to use it as a rug so why does Vick have to suffer so much for what he did to dogs? What make them so special over other animals? Do whale hunters get 23 months sentences? And really, replace Vick with Brady, what kind of treatment would he get then? (You have to blame Vick's attorney here for not even warning him about having to take a drug test, that was really dumb on his part)

Vick was torturing the dogs... How do you not see the difference? Hunters don't torture their pray. They also eat what they kill.

 

[mckmas8808]

Maybe you haven't lost close friends and family to violence, try living in the Homewood area of Pittsburgh for most of your life. That drunk driving man slaughter story I was talking about earlier was about my sister. My baby brother was killed by a bullet ricocheting off of a metal bar and entering his neck. I am the product of my mother being raped. So please fucking excuse me if I don't see an animal being on par with a fucking human. The death of an animal will NEVER hurt me anywhere near the death of a loved one or even a human I don't know.

Damn son I hate hearing stories like these.

 

[Big-E]

Compare what Vick did to his dogs to the treatment that your average chicken, cow or duck gets in a big industrial farm.
How’s one acceptable and one is torture?

Im not saying what the farm system is doing is right but just because that happens doesn't excuse Vick from anything.

 

[Chichikov]

Find a cost-effective way to house every slaughter-cow in condos and I'm sure the farmers will oblige.

Wait, wait, this is about morality and animal rights or cost-effectiveness?

 

[Chichikov]

Im not saying what the farm system is doing is right but just because that happens doesn't excuse Vick from anything.

Of course it doesn’t.
But it just point to a moral double standard that exists in our society –
It’s cool to kill animals in horrible ways as long as they’re not cute and we don’t have to think about it too much.

 

[WickedAngel]

Wait, wait, this is about morality and animal rights or cost-effectiveness?

A balance of both, actually. Like I said, I'm sure farmers will listen if you can speed up the means of slaughtering/processing animals.

Unfortunately, you're completely off the topic and you can't seem to distinguish between necessary/unnecessary evils.

Of course it doesn’t.
But it just point to a moral double standard that exists in our society –
It’s cool to kill animals in horrible ways as long as they’re not cute and we don’t have to think about it too much.

...um, no. I don't think anyone gets entertainment from watching animals get slaughtered so no, it isn't "cool". It is necessary. Torturing domesticated animals for entertainment isn't necessary. I thought you would possess the mental capacity to distinguish the two but I was mistaken.

 

[ShowDog]

The issue many people are arguing here (and many people aren't understanding) is this: who is to say dogs get greater rights than other animals? Is it because they are cuddly, loving pack animals? Because they are loyal? Is it because they have a different place in our culture than other animals?

Veal isn't necessary for survival, yet people put cows through horrible things to eat it. And they don't go to jail for 23 months.

Don't get me wrong, I have dogs and love them, but I can see the issue here and I don't know the answer. All the dog lovers need to get the best of their emotions and stop freaking out at people for looking at things from a legal, governmental position. The law is not emotional.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The issue many people are arguing here (and many people aren't understanding) is this: who is to say dogs get greater rights than other animals? Is it because they are cuddly, loving pack animals? Because they are loyal? Is it because they have a different place in our culture than other animals?

It is because of intent, like any other crime.

 

[Limedust]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I believe the reason the Fed was so heavily involved (and why the sentence was as long as it is) was because of the financial/gambling aspects of the case.

I'm only bringing it up because I see a lot of arguments about the length of the sentence, and many people are only basing it on the cruelty to animals aspect.

 

[Big-E]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I believe the reason the Fed was so heavily involved (and why the sentence was as long as it is) was because of the financial/gambling aspects of the case.

I'm only bringing it up because I see a lot of arguments about the length of the sentence, and many people are only basing it on the cruelty to animals aspect.

The reason the sentence is so long is that Vick did not take this seriously which pissed off the judge who also has dogs.

 

[Chichikov]

A balance of both, actually. Like I said, I'm sure farmers will listen if you can speed up the means of slaughtering/processing animals.

Unfortunately, you're completely off the topic and you can't seem to distinguish between necessary/unnecessary evils.

Eating meat isn’t necessary.
Eating mammals isn’t necessary.

...um, no. I don't think anyone gets entertainment from watching animals get slaughtered so no, it isn't "cool". It is necessary. Torturing domesticated animals for entertainment isn't necessary. I thought you would possess the mental capacity to distinguish the two but I was mistaken.

The fact that Vick may or may not been entertained by the killing of those dogs is a minor point.
Sure, it reflects on his character.
But just as murder is wrong if done for money or for pleasure, why do you draw the line at the killing of animals by the motivation and method of the killer?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Eating meat isn’t necessary.
Eating mammals isn’t necessary.

The fact that Vick may or may not been entertained by the killing of those dogs is a minor point.
Sure, it reflects on his character.
But just as murder is wrong if done for money or for pleasure, why do you draw the line at the killing of animals by the motivation and method of the killer?

Because it's the only thing keeping the vet down the street out of jail for putting a dying dog to sleep?

A lot of things might not be "necessary", but that doesn't mean it's feasible either. Meat is one of the most readily available and inexpensive sources of protein. Not everyone can afford to live healthily off of vegetables.

 

[StriKeVillain]

No Gifs yet?

 

[ShowDog]

Eating meat isn’t necessary.
Eating mammals isn’t necessary.

You can deem just about anything unnecessary, but then what do you have left?

It is because of intent, like any other crime.

That's certainly one way to look at it.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

GODDAMN!!! GRAVITY HAMMER!!!

 

[harSon]

Well when you put it like that, who can argue?

Anyone...I got nothing /thread

Sorry for lashing out. I guess I just have a completely different perspective of life then most. Knowing that your mom was going to potentially abort you really changes your life, the thought of being so close to non existence is something that I cannot begin to comprehend. What I mentioned before was not everything that I've encountered over my short lifetime, my experiences have simply led me towards a gratitude for life in general. I didn't mean any harm by my statements, I just seriously cannot comprehend how someone could put so much value into an animal.

Fortunately, my family is out of that hell hole. South side San Jose now, which is 8128731290831902839102830928x better.

 

[madara]

Rofl, man this place delivers sometimes :lol So let me get this straight, a place about staring at the screen and pressing some buttons as hobby with the lasted threads about obsessions with woman that cant stay as nubile and young as they did in their teens and bowel habits have some complaining about a sentence and coverage of a story which is about a celebrity who many look up to his abusing animals that cant help themselves, ah okay. Well at least its not another Paris Hilton tale. :lol

 

[Propagandhim]

Sorry for lashing out. I guess I just have a completely different perspective of life then most. Knowing that your mom was going to potentially abort you really changes your life, the thought of being so close to non existence is something that I cannot begin to comprehend. What I mentioned before was not everything that I've encountered over my short lifetime, my experiences have simply led me towards a gratitude for life in general. I didn't mean any harm by my statements, I just seriously cannot comprehend how someone could put so much value into an animal.

Fortunately, my family is out of that hell hole. South side San Jose now, which is 8128731290831902839102830928x better.

There's definitely nothing outlandish about someone who doesn't give any iota of sympathy for a dead animal. Looking at the context of your life, it's understandable. My father is much the same, and couldn't care less about any pet animal if he tried. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a jerk or emotionally bereft, he just has a different idea of what should be mourned. Torturing them on the other hand, is completely and ubiquitously fucked. When you have sick family members or other traumas in your life, whether you want it to or not, it molds your perception of what is considered mourn-worthy. So, I understand where you're coming from.