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[Topher]

So we agree.. switch, Xbox, and PlayStation are in the same market. We also then agree that the arbitrary definition of makerts the FTC have is also wrong.

Not much point in discussing this with you if you are going to determine I agree with something that wasn't said.

 

[akimbo009]

Not much point in discussing this with you if you are going to determine I agree with something that wasn't said.

What did you say cause it you literally said "I didn't say they weren't competing". I can only infere they are competing based on that, and therefore in the same market.

You're not being consistent or making sense.

 

[Punished Miku]

What did you say cause it you literally said "I didn't say they weren't competing". I can only infere they are competing based on that, and therefore in the same market.

You're not being consistent or making sense.

• Topher: "I didn't say they were in different markets."
• akimo: "We also then agree that the arbitrary definition of makerts the FTC have is also wrong"
• Topher: "Not much point in discussing this"

 

[Topher]

What did you say cause it you literally said "I didn't say they weren't competing". I can only infere they are competing based on that, and therefore in the same market.

You're not being consistent or making sense.

"We also then agree that the arbitrary definition of makerts the FTC have is also wrong."

Pretty obvious this is what I was referring to.

• Topher: "I didn't say they were in different markets."
• akimo: So therefore the FTC saying they are in different markets it wrong.
• Topher: "Not much point in discussing this"

You are misquoting what he said and you know it.

"We also then agree that the arbitrary definition of makerts the FTC have is also wrong."

 

[Punished Miku]

"We also then agree that the arbitrary definition of makerts the FTC have is also wrong."

Pretty obvious this is what I was referring to.



You are misquoting what he said and you know it.

"We also then agree that the arbitrary definition of makerts the FTC have is also wrong."

I changed it to the exact quote even though the two statements have the exact same meaning.

I don't understand you guys. I genuinely don't.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Differences in platform doesn't put you into a completely different market.

All the platforms have unique qualities but doesn't change the fact there are three competing video game consoles on the market.

 

[akimbo009]

I changed it to the exact quote even though the two statements have the exact same meaning.

I don't understand you guys. I genuinely don't.

It's baffling to say the least. And it's such a weird hill cause even if there is a segment of high-performance then PlayStation still has a commanding lead of around 60/40 or whatever so doesn't take away from the position that MS doesn't have a monopoly or take an overwhelming market lead/control with this acquisition.

 

[Topher]

I changed it to the exact quote even thought the two statements have the exact same meaning.

I don't understand you guys. I genuinely don't.

I don't understand people who create arguments out of thin air that no one made, but here we are. If you want to believe that stating these companies are in the same market is the equivalent as saying the FTC has some "arbitrary definition of markets" then yeah, there isn't much point in discussing it as it is an entirely disingenuous statement.

So I guess we just don't understand each other.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It's baffling to say the least. And it's such a weird hill cause even if there is a segment of high-performance then PlayStation still has a commanding lead of around 60/40 or whatever so doesn't take away from the position that MS doesn't have a monopoly or take an overwhelming market lead/control with this acquisition.

Talking about moving the goalpost.

 

[feynoob]

@everyone
Here is why Nintendo isnt a competition to MS and Sony.
Potential competitors are those competitors who do the same thing that you and target the same kinds of customers but aren't selling in your market area and aren't likely to do so. They could be your competition if they decided to enter, but either don't have the infrastructure or have chosen to ignore your area.

Hope this clarifies as to why current Nintendo isn't a competition to MS and Sony.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Talking about moving the pole position.

FTFY vroom vroom!

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

@everyone
Here is why Nintendo isnt a competition to MS and Sony.
Potential competitors are those competitors who do the same thing that you and target the same kinds of customers but aren't selling in your market area and aren't likely to do so. They could be your competition if they decided to enter, but either don't have the infrastructure or have chosen to ignore your area.

Hope this clarifies as to why current Nintendo isn't a competition to MS and Sony.

So. Do you realize your mistake now?

What is Market Segmentation? 4 Types & 5 Benefits

Market segmentation can help you to target just the people most likely to become satisfied customers of your company or enthusiastic consumers of your content.

www.lotame.com

You are welcome.

 

[reksveks]

So. Do you realize your mistake now?

What is Market Segmentation? 4 Types & 5 Benefits

Market segmentation can help you to target just the people most likely to become satisfied customers of your company or enthusiastic consumers of your content.

www.lotame.com

You are welcome.

Lotame definitions of markets isn't that important for regulators/judges (mentioned that point in a previous comment) but moving on from this topic cause its going in a circular argument.

New consumer group (10 people) lawsuit

Consumers_complaint_against_ms_abk.pdf

Case 3:22-cv-08991 Document 1 Filed 12/20/22 Page 1 of 45. 1 2 3 4 5 6. Joseph M. Alioto (State Bar No 42680) Tatiana V. Wallace (SBN 233939) ALIOTO LAW FIRM One Sansome Street, 35th Floor San Francisco, CA 94104 Telephone: (415) 434-8900 Facsimile: (415) 434-9200 Email: jmalioto@aliotolaw.com...

www.docdroid.net

 

[feynoob]

So. Do you realize your mistake now?

http://[URL]https://www.lotame.com/what-is-market-segmentation/

[/URL]

You are welcome.

That statement strengths my point.
Nintendo doesn't have 3rd party games which consumers want.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

That statement strengths my point.
Nintendo doesn't have 3rd party games which consumers want.

You are a lost cause.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Lotame definitions of markets isn't that important for regulators/judges (mentioned that point in a previous comment) but moving on from this topic cause its going in a circular argument.

New consumer group (10 people) lawsuit

Consumers_complaint_against_ms_abk.pdf

Case 3:22-cv-08991 Document 1 Filed 12/20/22 Page 1 of 45. 1 2 3 4 5 6. Joseph M. Alioto (State Bar No 42680) Tatiana V. Wallace (SBN 233939) ALIOTO LAW FIRM One Sansome Street, 35th Floor San Francisco, CA 94104 Telephone: (415) 434-8900 Facsimile: (415) 434-9200 Email: jmalioto@aliotolaw.com...

www.docdroid.net

Again. I am not taking about regulators FTC, judges or whatever. And I already explained why.

 

[feynoob]

You are a lost cause.

Dude, the main argument is that Nintendo doesn't have games like COD.
How do you not understand that?

 

[Punished Miku]

Dude, the main argument is that Nintendo doesn't have games like COD.
How do you not understand that?

They have Fortnite, Apex Legends and Overwatch 2. I'm sure I'm forgetting many others.

Good thing the console is only for sale on the Galapagos Islands in total seclusion from the outside world; left to evolve in perfect isolation, unsullied by third party competition.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Dude, the main argument is that Nintendo doesn't have games like COD.
How do you not understand that?

That is not the main argument .

 

[Pelta88]

I see the debate has gone so far off course, it drove off a cliff

 

[feynoob]

They have Fortnite, Apex Legends and Overwatch 2. I'm sure I'm forgetting many others.

Good thing the console is only for sale on the Galapagos Islands in total seclusion from the outside world; left to evolve in perfect isolation, unsullied by third party competition.

Nope, that won't won't fly.
As a consumer, I want to play newer 3rd party games (excluding timed or exclusive games).
Switch doesn't have that ability.
It's why it's potential competitor, but not actual competitor like Sony.

 

[feynoob]

I see the debate has gone so far off course, it drove off a cliff

Usual Sunday topic.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Nope, that won't won't fly.
As a consumer, I want to play newer 3rd party games (excluding timed or exclusive games).
Switch doesn't have that ability.
It's why it's potential competitor, but not actual competitor like Sony.

Flip-flopping.

 

[feynoob]

Flip-flopping.

The fuck?
My stance has been the same.
Current switch isn't on the same position as Xbox and PS.
It could change with switch 2, but as of now, it isn't until switch 2 is out.

 

[bender]

As a consumer, I want to play newer 3rd party games (excluding timed or exclusive games).

 

[DeepEnigma]

I see the debate has gone so far off course, it drove off a cliff

 

[gothmog]

EU previously asked the content question in the Bethesda deal.

Gonna be funny to see what they say now.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

A car is a car

 

[reksveks]

Gonna be funny to see what they say now.

Publishers? Maybe more even now. I don't expect a complete reversal in the position.

Especially if some of the publisher are trying to 'game' the deal for a paycheck from Sony or another company.

 

[DeepEnigma]

A car is a car

Now with Labo!

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Now with Labo!

And my legs!

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The issue with that argument, is that Nintendo is capable of making high end device. So that term is loose, as they can make a switch 2 which is the same as xss or even higher.

Remember, regulators are focusing on future argument here. So their point needs to stay in that topic.

Still Nintendo is wild card here.
Right now, switch is not a high end console, so regulators point stands. But once they make it, their points falls flat.
They are capable of doing that, as they are in the industry, unlike other companies.

Because of failed wii U.
Now that switch was a huge success, and the money printing of other games, Nintendo would try to make their console little bit powerful to be on par with steam deck and xss.

And will be back for power again.
Most games at this age demand power.
if Nintendo wants to stay in the game, they have to.

I like my switch. But the one I hated about that system is low 3rd party support.
I know their 1st party is strong, but they will lose a lot of 3rd party support if they release another weaker system.

I am not going to arguing with you on this point. Everyone here understands the limitation of switch, and the main issue that device has, which is the power to run newer games.

Nintendo is going to have a new version system. That system can compete with Xbox and PS if they can able to make their device run newer games like steam deck and xss.

And?
If I can buy the next cyberpunk 2077 on newer switch, then yes, it's a competitor.

We will see.

You don't need 4k to compete. Xss exist, and steam deck exist.
Switch 2 just needs to strong enough to run demanding games at 1080p like xss and steam deck.

Future switch. Not this current switch.

Flip-flop alert flip-flop alert

Those aren't what defines competition.
It would be library, 3rd party games, consumers' desire for each platform of those 3rd party games.

FTC pointers needed more clarification.

Clearly, you were considering the power of the switch as a factor for competition.

 

[gothmog]

Publishers? Maybe more even now. I don't expect a complete reversal in the position.

Especially if some of the publisher are trying to 'game' the deal for a paycheck from Sony or another company.

Like I said it's going to be funny.

 

[bxrz]

@everyone
Here is why Nintendo isnt a competition to MS and Sony.
Potential competitors are those competitors who do the same thing that you and target the same kinds of customers but aren't selling in your market area and aren't likely to do so. They could be your competition if they decided to enter, but either don't have the infrastructure or have chosen to ignore your area.

Hope this clarifies as to why current Nintendo isn't a competition to MS and Sony.

This post did nothing but show me why Nintendo is in competition with MS and Sony.

The fact that anyone is trying to argue this absolutely comedic. Yall wouldn't have said none of this if the FTC didn't.

 

[feynoob]

Flip-flop alert flip-flop alert


Clearly, you were considering the power of the switch as a factor for competition.

That is a factor, but it needs more factors too, such as these.

It would be library, 3rd party games, consumers' desire for each platform of those 3rd party games.

Power alone isnt enough, as that doesnt guarentee you the games. Stadia had the power to run those games, yet it didnt get those games. And consumers didnt go to that platform as there wasnt enough 3rd party games.
You could say stadia is a cloud console, but it had the ability to run Cyberpunk2077. The option was there. The library just wasnt there to help that system.

 

[Three]

This post did nothing but show me why Nintendo is in competition with MS and Sony.

The fact that anyone is trying to argue this absolutely comedic. Yall wouldn't have said none of this if the FTC didn't.

People were saying this before the FTC said anything.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This post did nothing but show me why Nintendo is in competition with MS and Sony.

The fact that anyone is trying to argue this absolutely comedic. Yall wouldn't have said none of this if the FTC didn't.

They all compete for timeshare, but not all target the same demographics.

 

[feynoob]

This post did nothing but show me why Nintendo is in competition with MS and Sony.

The fact that anyone is trying to argue this absolutely comedic. Yall wouldn't have said none of this if the FTC didn't.

I own switch, and I know that before FTC.
My library is dry of 3rd party games.

 

[feynoob]

Consumer complaint
https://www.docdroid.net/0hRsWfg/consumers-complaint-against-ms-abk-pdf#page=8

This is a private antitrust action seeking an order of the Court prohibiting the
proposed acquisition of Activision Blizzard, Inc. by Microsoft Corporation as a violation of Section
7 of the Clayton Antitrust Act (15 U.S.C. § 18). The threatened loss or damage to the Plaintiffs and
to the public at-large by the merging of two giants in the video game industry is extensive and broad.
2. On January 18, 2022, Microsoft announced plans to acquire Activision Blizzard.
Microsoft agreed to pay $68.7 billion ($68,700,000,000), or approximately $95 per share in an
all-cash transaction. Under the proposed terms of the merger, Microsoft would acquire all the
outstanding stock of Activision Blizzard. Upon completion of the deal, Activision Blizzard would
be wholly owned by Microsoft.
3. The proposed acquisition price of $68.7 billion in cash demonstrates the merger is
significant and non-trivial. Indeed, if the acquisition is allowed to proceed, it would be the largest
merger of technologies companies ever.
4. Microsoft and Activision Blizzard are each significant rivals in the video game
development, publishing, and distribution markets.
5. Microsoft and Activision Blizzard both develop, publish, and distribute gaming
content for purchase by consumers, and they directly compete in this market.
6. Microsoft and Activision Blizzard are two of the largest gaming corporations in the
United States with significant market share in the video game markets for developing, publishing
and distributing video games.
7. Microsoft owns and sells the Xbox gaming consoles and the Windows operating
system, two of the primary platforms on which games are played.
8. The development and publishing of video games for these and other platforms are
critical inputs to the popularity and continued viability of gaming platforms.
9. The development and publishing of video games are also critical inputs to new
gaming platforms and distribution methods, such as multi-game subscription services and cloud-
based gaming.
Case 3:22-cv-08991 Document 1 Filed 12/20/22 Page 4 of 45

In addition to the elimination of a significant rival, the proposed acquisition may
give Microsoft far-outsized market power in the video game industry and may enable Microsoft to
foreclose rivals to critical inputs and important markets.
11. The current trend toward concentration, the lessening of competition, and the
tendency to create a monopoly in the video game industry was already harming competition at an
alarming rate before the proposed acquisition was announced. Both companies are the products
of substantial campaigns to acquire, merge with, and consolidate numerous video game
companies to achieve their current stature in the video game industry.
12. If Microsoft's proposed acquisition of Activision Blizzard is allowed to proceed,
the video game industry may lose substantial competition, and Microsoft may have far-outsized
market power, with the ability to foreclose rivals, limit output, reduce consumer choice, raise
prices, and further inhibit competition.
13. The proposed acquisition is a violation of Section 7 of the Clayton Antitrust Act
(15 U.S.C. § 18) in that the effect of the potential consolidation "may be substantially to lessen
competition or tend to create a monopoly" in various markets in the video game industry.
14. This private action is authorized under Section 16 of the Clayton Antitrust Act (15
U.S.C. § 26), which provides in relevant part that "any person...shall be entitled to sue and have
injunctive relief ...against threatened loss or damage by a violation of the antitrust laws." The
remedy afforded to private plaintiffs includes injunctive relief prohibiting any potential unlawful
acquisition as well as divestiture.
15. The Clayton Act codifies Congress' "intent to encourage vigorous private
litigation against anticompetitive mergers" that may substantially lessen competition. California
v. Am. Stores Co., 495 U.S. 271, 284 (1990).
16. Plaintiffs bring this action under the authority of Section 16 of the Clayton
Antitrust Act and allege that the proposed acquisition of Activision Blizzard by Microsoft
constitutes a substantial threat of injury to the Plaintiffs and the public because the acquisition
may have the effect of substantially lessening competition and may tend to create a monopoly in
various markets in violation of Section 7 of the Clayton Antitrust Act

Competition rather than combination is the rule of trade in the United States so
that these Plaintiffs, and the public at large, may enjoy the benefits and innovations that come
from competition, including, among others, improved quality and increased choices at the lowest
possible prices.
18. Vigorous enforcement of the antitrust laws by private persons is an essential part
of the congressional plan to ensure that competition rather than monopoly is, and remains, the
rule of trade in the United States, including in the video game industry

JURISDICTION AND VENUE
19. The proposed acquisition is in and substantially affects the interstate and foreign
commerce of the United States in that video game consoles, personal computers, smartphones,
and the video games that are played on those platforms, including cloud-gaming services, are sold
throughout the United States.
20. This Court has jurisdiction over this action pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§ 1331, 1337(a)
and Sections 7 and 16 of the Clayton Act (15 U.S.C. §§ 18 and 26).
21. Jurisdiction and venue are proper in this judicial district pursuant to 15 U.S.C.
§§15, 22, 26, and 28 U.S.C. § 1391.
DIVISIONAL ASSIGNMENT
22. Pursuant to Civil Local Rule 3-5.(b), assignment of this case to the San Francisco
Division is proper because a substantial number of the Plaintiffs reside in and practice gaming in
San Francisco.

Its too long. This is just first 2 pages. hope you guys can have a nice read.

 

[Cheezewizz]

A car is a car

Moving the speed bump I see.

The whole point is what is it after it drives off the cliff. Is it still a car? Or is it a burning pile of scrap metal?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

That is a factor, but it needs more factors too, such as these.

Power alone isnt enough, as that doesnt guarentee you the games. Stadia had the power to run those games, yet it didnt get those games. And consumers didnt go to that platform as there wasnt enough 3rd party games.
You could say stadia is a cloud console, but it had the ability to run Cyberpunk2077. The option was there. The library just wasnt there to help that system.

And what did you said to me:

Those aren't what defines competition.
It would be library, 3rd party games, consumers desire for each platform of those 3rd party games.

FTC pointers needed more clarification.

Implying that only library,3rd party games are what defines competition.

Then I posted this:

This should be like public service announcement to finally move on from this dumb debate around Switch/PS5-XboxSeries

 

[Topher]

And what did you said to me:

Implying that only library,3rd party games are what defines competition.

Then I posted this:

This should be like public service announcement to finally move on from this dumb debate around Switch/PS5-XboxSeries

Really should be. And to follow up with that.....

From last year's top 20 best sellers on each console's platform, 16 out of the 17 third party games on PlayStation best sellers were also best sellers on Xbox. Three of the games on each list were first party. So only one third party game from each list were not on both console's list.

From last year's top 20 best sellers list for Nintendo, only ONE game is found on Xbox or PlayStation's best sellers list: Minecraft.

NPD: The top 20 best-selling games of 2021 in the U.S.

Here are the best-selling games of 2021 in the United States as well as for the Switch, Xbox, and PlayStation 5.

venturebeat.com

The conclusion here is not that Switch isn't in the same video game market as Xbox/PS, rather that there is enough diversity within the same market that Nintendo can thrive with a unique selection of games simply not found on Xbox and PlayStation. There is overlap in areas and with some third party games beyond the top 20, but there are distinct and key differences and the games show us this clearly.

 

[bxrz]

People were saying this before the FTC said anything.

People were saying Nintendo doesn't sell in the same market area as Xbox and Playstation before this? Show me lol.

They all compete for timeshare, but not all target the same demographics.

Nintendo put out documents that showed that their demographic is the same as Xbox and Playstation. The majority of people that own a Switch are in their 20s, as with Xbox and PS

 

[DeepEnigma]

People were saying Nintendo doesn't sell in the same market area as Xbox and Playstation before this? Show me lol.

Nintendo put out documents that showed that their demographic is the same as Xbox and Playstation. The majority of people that own a Switch are in their 20s, as with Xbox and PS

Demographics are not just age.

CoD players as example are not marketed to for a Switch platform.

 

[akimbo009]

Demographics are not just age.

CoD players as example are not marketed to for a Switch platform.

Well of course, COD isn't on Switch.

 

[gothmog]

Lol. This is a fun argument.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well of course, COD isn't on Switch.

And why do you think that is?

 

[akimbo009]

And why do you think that is?

Cause Activision are full of a bunch of douchebags.

They used to, but bailed. EA did for a long time too. But I'm not in the rooms so could be any number of reasons but it's so dominating on all platforms it's on I'm certain it'd also be the top or near top seller there too no matter the downgrade.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Cause Activision are full of a bunch of douchebags.

They used to, but bailed. EA did for a long time too. But I'm not in the rooms so could be any number of reasons but it's so dominating on all platforms it's on I'm certain it'd also be the top or near top seller there too no matter the downgrade.

Nope.

 

[reksveks]

In unrelated news,



Wonder if Mark wants to kill this deal