Varteras
Member
Public pressure. If they control the narrative outside the room then the hope is that it bleeds into it.
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Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)
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Public pressure. If they control the narrative outside the room then the hope is that it bleeds into it.
Topher
Identifies as young
Varteras
Member
Something something optimization something something lazy devs.
JTCx
Member
The devs forgot to press the SFS button
Soon the infinite power and superiority of the split RAM pools will be readily apparent. Tools are being optimized please understand.
Except sony is only getting 30% of that 400 dollars. So really 120 or so dollars x 2 million is really 240 million a year and most are not buying 3 games a year and spending 200 a year on COD. Its more like 150 on COD and 1-2 other games or 30% of 290 dollar at most a year. At this point it is about protection of the market leader who is going to be 90-95% market share by the end of the generation going by the UK sales thread.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
is that a good or bad thing?
feynoob
Banned
I forgot about that 30% cut.
CMA isnt protecting Sony here.
If MS were to get Activision, they are essentially getting a huge marketing company, which can drive alot of people to their platform. Not just that, they will also get more deals with 3rd party studio because of activision.
The likes of Square and other japanese devs will partner with Xbox, simply due to activision name.
Also gamepass would get alot of day1 games because of COD day1.
These are the effects of owning a company like activision. Just like how bethesda transformed xbox.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
that is the wet dream. unfortunately for MS the rubber band has been stretched too much and is about to break.I forgot about that 30% cut.
CMA isnt protecting Sony here.
If MS were to get Activision, they are essentially getting a huge marketing company, which can drive alot of people to their platform. Not just that, they will also get more deals with 3rd party studio because of activision.
The likes of Square and other japanese devs will partner with Xbox, simply due to activision name.
Also gamepass would get alot of day1 games because of COD day1.
These are the effects of owning a company like activision. Just like how bethesda transformed xbox.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
How did Bethesda transform Xbox? None of the above things happened when MS acquired Bethesda.I forgot about that 30% cut.
CMA isnt protecting Sony here.
If MS were to get Activision, they are essentially getting a huge marketing company, which can drive alot of people to their platform. Not just that, they will also get more deals with 3rd party studio because of activision.
The likes of Square and other japanese devs will partner with Xbox, simply due to activision name.
Also gamepass would get alot of day1 games because of COD day1.
These are the effects of owning a company like activision. Just like how bethesda transformed xbox.
- Xbox lost market share in the US compared to last gen.
- Xbox lost market share in the UK compared to last gen.
- Xbox Series Consoles sold less than Xbox One
- Game Pass didn't take off either and instead continued to miss internal goals.
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Companion Cube
Member
Could you elaborate on this more?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
i think is a joke
Companion Cube
Member
My mistake. Carry on, fellas.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
feynoob
Banned
You can lose market share, while still selling alot of consoles.
People are overlooking the fact that Sony sold 120m ps4 is what is making the Ps5 strong this gen. Those lost market share can be gained once Xbox is firing their games consistent.
As for Xbox one outselling XSeries is nonsense, considering the console is outselling Xbox one in japan by alot. If that market is any indication, XSeries is outselling Xbox one in other regions.
Missing a target that was set by the board doesnt mean its bad.
This trajectory is rising upwards at a rabid pace. From 10m in april 2020 to 25m in january 2022 is massive growth.
More library, more userbase who are willing to buy the console, Bethesda marketing department, and most importantly more studios count.
Xbox had low studio count before bethesda. But now that have extra 8 studios from this purchase who are experienced in their field. That is massive boost to their studio portfolio. Not to mention, bethesda studios will help xbox studios.
Topher
Identifies as young
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
No. Xbox Series has sold less than Xbox One in both US and UK by a large margin, and now we have the data. Japan's 100K difference isn't significant enough.
They still missed the target they thought they would get. You can have an upward trajectory, but it's not growing fast enough, according to their own internal targets.Missing a target that was set by the board doesnt mean its bad.
This trajectory is rising upwards at a rabid pace. From 10m in april 2020 to 25m in january 2022 is massive growth.
At the end of the day, buying Bethesda didn't do anything good for Xbox. They're doing worse than the previous generation, as per actual data.
feynoob
Banned
Where is that data?
They dont have consistent content which makes their target stupid. Companies miss their target when they set up a high target.
The hell are you on. This is a stupid statement that you are making man.
Xbox one had shit output, because they didnt have enough studios to make games for them. Now they have extra 8 studios plus their other recent acquission.
That is a great thing for xbox as bethesda can help them push out consistant contents.
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ZehDon
Member
Xbox Series doing worse than the Xbone? Gonna need to see the receipts on that one, please.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
- XBS has sold 1.8 million units in the UK after 111 weeks. Xbox One hit 2 million in the UK after 104 weeks.
- XBS lost 2 percentage points of market share in the US despite PS5 selling less than PS4, which guarantees that XBS sold less than Xbox One.
- That's 80% of Xbox's market, where it's performing worse than Xbox One. ROTW isn't strong enough to put it ahead so much to nullify the negative impact in 80% of the market.
- Ampere Analysis also estimates XBS 18.5 million (with a decreasing H1 forecast), when Xbox One was 19 million around the same time frame.
ZehDon
Member
I see four dot points and zero receipts. I'd like a clear demonstration that Microsoft is "... doing worse than the previous generation, as per actual data."
You're focusing exclusively on hardware sales in two regions, without citing sources, and wholly ignoring software sales and services. One of the key differentiators in generations has been Microsoft's PC and Game Pass shift, which changes the landscape quite a bit. In fact, the analysis you're incorrectly quoting notes just that, highlighting that services has been, and will be, the major area for growth. Of course, it also notes that Sony is losing market share to Microsoft globally, but I'm sure you just forgot that one and will include it in your reply.
Ash Sparrow
Banned
Even if those figures were correct and I seriously doubt they are, Series would be pretty close and considering the upcoming slate and the new Halo happening in Starfield, I think its likely its going to far surpass One. Another thing thats going to help is games are starting to arrive that one cant Play so easily. Improved stock should also help. Which is where we see that increase occurring already in the UK. Plus probably some Hi Fi Rush affect.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I'm talking about console sales, because Game Pass makes for 10-15% of the division's total revenue, according to Phil Spencer. It's minuscule. We can add it and talk more about it however if/when Microsoft releases more information about Game Pass revenue and expenditures. We haven't even got an update on current GP sub count in over 415 days now.
As for other notes, it's easy to Google, but okay:
- Xbox One 2 million UK: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ps5-h...rth-fastest-selling-games-console-of-all-time
- XBS at 1.8 mill in UK: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/xbox-...uk-sales-in-strong-december-uk-monthly-charts + https://eraltd.org/media/72551/2023-era-yrbk.pdf
- US NPD leak: https://www.installbaseforum.com/fo...pdate-full-report-out.1311/page-6#post-130424 - PS4 / Xbox One was 53:47 in the US last gen. PS5 / XBS is now 55:45. Sony's CFO also validate this. https://www.aroged.com/2023/02/03/playstation-5-market-share-increased-significantly-in-us-updated/
- Ampere's: https://www.videogameschronicle.com...rsus-ps5s-30-million-analysis-firm-estimates/
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
It is very close, yes. But just a bit behind according to the data we have.
The gap, however, is expected to grow bigger in at least H1 2023. January already saw up to 30% YoY decline. Starfield, if releases in June in a fantastic shape, can change the momentum however.
bender
What time is it?
ZehDon
Member
Sorry, we're talking about Microsoft "... doing worse than the previous generation, as per actual data.". Ignoring 10-15% of their revenue is ridiculous in that context. Try again.
Sorry, you might have supplied the wrong links there. One is indicating that Xbox Series consoles have hit 1m console sales in the UK after their best ever month. The other is a 104 page PDF with no hyperlinks that doesn't relate to any of your other sources. Given you're quoting a variety of sources to "guestimate", rather than normalising your results with a single source, I'm happy to handwave this point as proven false.
According your Ampere analysis link, Microsoft increasing their total market share by ~1.5%, with Nintendo taking 0.5%. So, Microsoft are apparently doing (marginally) better than last generation... according to your own sources?
You'll note, of course, that Ampere list the 18.5m units as the floor with other estimates surpassing 22m units. With that in mind, you haven't provided a source for the launch aligned Xbone comparison from the same source, demonstrating the normalised drop off.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
1) Dude, Google and search for it if you're claiming otherwise. Stop expecting others to spoon-feed you.
2) You need to look at the data again. There are no 22 million estimates, except from Twitter fanboys.
Xbox SX hit 1 million by in 2021 in UK. Then hit 723K units in 2022 as per the report I shared. So that's 1.723 million units. I rounded it up to 1.8 million. From the report (page 26).
Now I've shared mine, which proves that Xbox Series is lagging behind in key markets than Xbox One (which represents up to 80% of the Xbox market). If you're claiming otherwise, that Xbox Series S|X is doing better than Xbox One, present your receipts.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
That's like saying Xbox One sold better in 2005 than Xbox Series SX in the UK. Therefore Xbox SX is a failure. Think about chip shortages, cost of living, COVID...
The speed a console sells is not a great metric. The PS3 was a beast but had a slow start.
- I can google too so my first search came up with this - https://www.vgchartz.com/article/455244/xbox-series-xs-vs-xbox-one-sales-comparison-september-2022/ Yeah its from September but could not find anything more recent.
feynoob
Banned
It's much impressive hit considering that xbs has a shortages during that time. Not to mention the 1 year which Xbox never had a first party AAA game too.
That is not a failure.
ZehDon
Member
Sorry, doesn't work that way. You're making the claim - prove it. So far, your sources have only shown you're wrong.
Cool, except, these are two different data points from two different sources, one of which isn't used around here, leading me to believe it's less reliable to the ones that are. Adding together two different sets of data from two different sources and claiming "evidence" is a little ridiculous.Xbox SX hit 1 million by in 2021 in UK. Then hit 723K units in 2022 as per the report I shared. So that's 1.723 million units. I rounded it up to 1.8 million. From the report (page 26).
No, sorry, your claim was that Microsoft is "... doing worse than the previous generation, as per actual data." Based on the "actual data" you've provided, they've actually expanded their market share. Walking the goal posts back to "key markets" doesn't really work when you've shown your own initial claim is wrong.
Sorry friend, I'm not making any claims, so I don't have any receipts to provide. You're the one posting hyperbole that fell apart the moment I asked for anything resembling proof. I'll post something when I know something. Until then, when I see people posting claims that might have new info, I'll continue to ask for proof. Posters here are mostly pretty good about dropping a quick link, because we're all here to discuss the same stuff. Telling someone to Google your evidence for you when you can't seem to find it is pretty lame.
feynoob
Banned
They need to hit that constant flow first.
1 year without a first party AAA game is madness.
JLB
Banned
Of course creating new studios or new IPs from the scratch is not an easy task. A new God of War, to the same team, the same engine, the same lore, and existing audience took 5 years. It was never reasonable to think that, to give an example, Playground was going to be capable of doing that on the same time window.
2023 is the year that will start to happen, and next years that will be much easier. new Fable might take 7 years to be made, but then new Fable 2 will take 4/5, and then new Fable 3 will 3. Similar to Insomniac with Spiderman.
If you extrapolate that to the huge catalog of studios that MS has, the math works to think that MS will be in a short period of time be capable to release, easily, 5/6 AAAs per year. Let alone if they complete this acquisition.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Heisenberg007
getting schooled here, and rightfully so. You cant make these claims and posts with no hard evidence and data. You don't have it. You have shown you actually have zero basis to make these claims. Better luck next time, I guess and thanks
ZehDon
for exposing the truth.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
They're literally the same source. Just by saying "So far, your sources have only shown you're wrong" doesn't make you right when you've shown literally 0 evidence that proves me wrong.
I've shown that XBS is tracking behind Xbox One in 80% of the total Xbox markets. If you say that does not prove that XBS is tracking behind Xbox One, you're implying that it is performing so well in the rest of the 20% market that it's eclipsing any decline in the rest of the 80% market. And you can't say that without showing data.
I've given you proof. It's okay if you don't want to accept it.
DenchDeckard
-"Exposing the truth" lol when he hasn't shared any single data. I've been working with these data points for years. You were among the same people who didn't want to accept my data for 18 million Xbox sold LTD and also ridiculed
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
's estimates. Now, Ampere Analysis has proven us right.If you believe and claim otherwise that refutes our data, please share your numbers and evidence. Saying "I don't believe these numbers" doesn't make you right.
All the "evidence and hard data" is here. It's okay if you don't want to accept it. You can choose to ignore it.
- XBS is tracking behind Xbox One in the UK. XBS is 1.8 million in the UK after 111 weeks, when Xbox One hit 2 million units in only 104 weeks. (Source 1, 2, and 3)
- XBS has also lost market share in the US by 2 percentage points and is selling less than Xbox One. Sony's CFO has also confirmed this. (Source)
- XBS is at 18.5 million console sales with a declining forecast for at least the next 6 months, when Xbox One was around 19 million (Source)
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Thanks for a more logical and nuanced response than these other trolls.
I appreciate the fact that chip shortages and supply issues were a reality. The point of my post was that so far, there hasn't been any notable improvements in market share after Bethesda's acquisition. If anything, Xbox has lost market share in US and UK, which is a data point that makes more sense because PS5 has also been struggling.
Anyway, again the discussion started when someone said that "Bethesda has transformed Xbox." And, given these data points, I mentioned that there has been no improvements in the market share, and asked how he is defining the transformation. (until the usual suspects attacked trying to defend their favorite company).
ShadyAcshuns
Member
When this deal inevitably goes through soon, this place is going to be a veritable gold mine of quality entertainment.
We did get an additional data point from Nadella in October 2022: "“In gaming, we saw usage growth across all platforms, driven by strength off console,” says Nadella. “PC Game Pass subscriptions increased 159 percent year over year.”You can lose market share, while still selling alot of consoles.
People are overlooking the fact that Sony sold 120m ps4 is what is making the Ps5 strong this gen. Those lost market share can be gained once Xbox is firing their games consistent.
As for Xbox one outselling XSeries is nonsense, considering the console is outselling Xbox one in japan by alot. If that market is any indication, XSeries is outselling Xbox one in other regions.
Missing a target that was set by the board doesnt mean its bad.
This trajectory is rising upwards at a rabid pace. From 10m in april 2020 to 25m in january 2022 is massive growth.
More library, more userbase who are willing to buy the console, Bethesda marketing department, and most importantly more studios count.
Xbox had low studio count before bethesda. But now that have extra 8 studios from this purchase who are experienced in their field. That is massive boost to their studio portfolio. Not to mention, bethesda studios will help xbox studios.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/25...s-revenue-profits-windows-xbox-gaming-surface
Of course we don't know how many PC gamepass subs there were prior to that to get an actual number, or if the rise in PC gamepass was offset by a reduction in console gamepass subs.
I've seen claims where Xbox series sales will double what they would have been if acquisition doesn't get approval so certainly there will be entertainment.
Mephisto40
Member
The PS4 is not making the PS5 strong this gen, good games are making the PS5 strong this gen
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yep, people forget that both PS5 and Xbox Series X|S started from 0.
And in the previous 2-3 generations, we have seen the gaming audience consistently switch platforms: from PS2 to Xbox 360. From Xbox 360 to PS4.
feynoob
Banned
Mate, the PS4 is the reason why PS5 is selling like hot cakes.
PS4 sold 117m. And those users wants to get a PS5. It's why the demand is high for the console.
PS5 had great games and there is no denying to that. But that is not the only reason why the console is selling like hot cakes
Mephisto40
Member
No it isnt, it's because it's got games actually worth playing on it
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Network affects would certainly encourage them to stay with playstation but if PS5 wasn't delivering the content and value they could look elsewhere. I think PS4 gen got quite a few 360 gamers that looked at the initial Xbox one offering and said nope, I'm out.
I think PS5 will be a monster generation because there doesn't seem to be any clear reason to switch from PS4 to Xbox series, maybe a small minority that wanted 12 tflops. But with all 1st party xb games coming to PC gamepass, if you want the max eye candy you'd build or buy a PC
Astray
Member
I genuinely don't understand how one would argue about market data for ages without providing a single good source of their own to back up their claims.
It's almost as if the objective isn't to have a conversation, but instead to bore the other person and get them to abandon what's becoming an increasingly-fruitless conversation.
It's almost as if the objective isn't to have a conversation, but instead to bore the other person and get them to abandon what's becoming an increasingly-fruitless conversation.
TheGodfather07
Member
it's the only reason. People buy these consoles to play games. That's it. Why else are people buying a PS5? There's obviously something they want to play on it.
MasterCornholio
Member
I'm OK with people estimating the results from the data thet Microsoft and Sony gives us. It's also how these analysts come up with numbers themselves. I agree that its more difficult to know Microsofts numbers since they don't provide them. But it is possible to get a close estimate.
The way I see it if they both announce numbers then that's what we should go with. If not then we can use other data to estimate them. What I don't enjoy here is people not providing any evidence to their claims. It really doesn't make for a good conversation in my opinion.
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