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[Ogbert]

Define "normal."

It should NOT be normal, that's the issue.

Regulation is a bog standard business, like any other. People need to push paper. Any complaint that comes in can be picked up and looked at, so they will open up an investigation and review the market.

An investigation doesn’t mean a priori skullduggery.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Amazing and transparent. They approve so they can investigate and potentially levy fines (free money!) later. EU business per usual.

All at the expense of the consumers and other market competitors. Fines don't prevent them from continuing to operate at what got them the fines. Pushes them to scoop up for more revenue. You create the beast that needs to be fed.

For such a big economic block, the tech sector is bit sized. Maybe the EU should be more focused on reigning in the big five so there’s room to breathe. I’m not even talking protectionism here, I’m talking about stopping the status quo of the only purpose of start ups being to one day be acquired by one of the big five.

Specially when we are on the verge of absolutely pornographic profits due to A.I.

 

[IFireflyl]

Yeah this is what I was trying to say though. I thought you were saying that a person who bought an xbox game would be given the right to stream from playstations cloud service?:

That's what the EC remedy says. Their remedy says that any EU consumer who purchases a [digital] Activision Blizzard game must be allowed to stream that game via any streaming service (that exists in the EU) of the consumer's choice, as long as the game is available on on that streaming service. This means that Microsoft has to allow an EU consumer who has purchased Call of Duty on Xbox to stream the game on the consumer's PlayStation streaming service (because Microsoft is still releasing Call of Duty on PlayStation).

 

[DeepEnigma]

If EU stops azure practices, it can slow down MS cloud ambition.
Strike the heart is EU philosophy here. Since MS depends on azure for their cloud gaming.

They aren't going to stop shit. Just fine them or accept hollow 10 year deals like they did with this one. Otherwise, they would have been preventative, even after agreeing with the CMA.

It's not normal, it's backwards.

Exactly. They have swaths of people conditioned into thinking preventative is not the way, just fines while they still gobble everything up. Fines that mean squat. At least the CMA will now have more fire power with 10% revenue, not little peanuts that have been the non stifling status quo.

For such a big economic block, the tech sector is bit sized. Maybe the EU should be more focused on reigning in the big five so there’s room to breathe. I’m not even talking protectionism here, I’m talking about stopping the status quo of the only purpose of start ups being to one day be acquired by one of the big five.

Bingo!

 

[GHG]

For such a big economic block, the tech sector is bit sized. Maybe the EU should be more focused on reigning in the big five so there’s room to breathe. I’m not even talking protectionism here, I’m talking about stopping the status quo of the only purpose of start ups being to one day be acquired by one of the big five.

Yep, they were supposed to be stepping up attempts to prevent (and deter) killer acquisitions and potential mothballing scenarios, but apparently not.

 

[feynoob]

It doesn't matter what they want. The EC's remedy says that a cloud gaming license has to be provided for a consumer to play their purchased game on ANY cloud gaming service. It doesn't say that this is limited to a cloud gaming service that decides to bend to Microsoft.

This means that if a consumer in the EU buys Call of Duty on Xbox, but they want to play that game on their PlayStation cloud stream service, Microsoft has to find a way to make that work. Otherwise they are violating the consumer's right according to the EC remedy.

It means PC game purchases has to be allowed for all cloud gaming, consoles have their own cloud gaming.

Sony cloud gaming won't apply for Xbox purchase, as both consoles are different.

So that policy is clearly geared towards GeForce now alike services, or PSnow on PS.

 

[Nothing1234]

Revealed: senior Tory MP was paid £2,000 a month by lobbying firm

Bim Afolami ran a group calling for Rishi Sunak to overhaul the UK’s regulatory system

amp.theguardian.com

Bim Afolami, a former vice chair of the Conservative party, declared in the register of interests that one of his private clients was a public affairs firm, WPI Strategy. But he did not mention that they were paying him for his work running the Regulatory Reform Group of MPs.
As chair of the group, Afolami has written to the prime minister calling for regulators to be better held to account, and pressed Sunak for change at prime minister’s question time in the House of Commons.

The man questioning the CMA today…

 

[IFireflyl]

It means PC game purchases has to be allowed for all cloud gaming, consoles have their own cloud gaming.

Sony cloud gaming won't apply for Xbox purchase, as both consoles are different.

So that policy is clearly geared towards GeForce now alike services, or PSnow on PS.

Where do you see that the remedy differentiates between PC and console streaming services?

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

For such a big economic block, the tech sector is bit sized.

Part of the reason why EC ruling doesn't matter for that deal. Also, new EU proposals to regulate AI can basically kill all the business in ths sector for EU customers and businesses.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Revealed: senior Tory MP was paid £2,000 a month by lobbying firm

Bim Afolami ran a group calling for Rishi Sunak to overhaul the UK’s regulatory system

amp.theguardian.com

Bim Afolami, a former vice chair of the Conservative party, declared in the register of interests that one of his private clients was a public affairs firm, WPI Strategy. But he did not mention that they were paying him for his work running the Regulatory Reform Group of MPs.
As chair of the group, Afolami has written to the prime minister calling for regulators to be better held to account, and pressed Sunak for change at prime minister’s question time in the House of Commons.

The man questioning the CMA today…

 

[GHG]

http://[URL]https://amp.theguardian...ory-mp-was-paid-2000-a-month-by-lobbying-firm

[/URL]



Bim Afolami, a former vice chair of the Conservative party, declared in the register of interests that one of his private clients was a public affairs firm, WPI Strategy. But he did not mention that they were paying him for his work running the Regulatory Reform Group of MPs.
As chair of the group, Afolami has written to the prime minister calling for regulators to be better held to account, and pressed Sunak for change at prime minister’s question time in the House of Commons.

It's amazing how people in positions of power are willing to put their careers and lives at jeopardy, all over paltry sums of money. 2 grand a month? Really? Could you not negotiate a better deal for yourself?

Jokers. This is how we creep towards dystopia.

 

[reksveks]

It means PC game purchases has to be allowed for all cloud gaming, consoles have their own cloud gaming.

Sony cloud gaming won't apply for Xbox purchase, as both consoles are different.

So that policy is clearly geared towards GeForce now alike services, or PSnow on PS.

IMO it mean that it's upto the platforms to take up the license. Sony gets to decide if they allow a user who bought the game to streaming it via cloud. They probably wouldn't for non-sony purchases but the option is there.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

citizenship included with gamepass, best deal in gaming

"Gamepass service guarantees citizenship"

"Would you like to know more?"

 

[feynoob]

Where do you see that the remedy differentiates between PC and console streaming services?

Because of the store where the consumers buy the product.

Steam is available to all streaming services like GeForce now. Sony doesn't allow other streaming services on their device. Same with Xbox as both of them are closed platform.

For example, GeForce now allows you to stream your owned games on the platform it supports, but companies who own those games have to allow them. This remedy removes that option.

 

[Calverz]

It's amazing how people in positions of power are willing to put their careers and lives at jeopardy, all over paltry sums of money. 2 grand a month? Really? Could you not negotiate a better deal for yourself?

Jokers. This is how we creep towards dystopia.

He is backbencher with no experience in cabinet. I mean how much do you think he should have negotiated to lobby?

 

[DeepEnigma]

He is backbencher with no experience in cabinet. I mean how much do you think he should have negotiated to lobby?

$0

0 lobbying.

 

[Three]

That's what the EC remedy says. Their remedy says that any EU consumer who purchases a [digital] Activision Blizzard game must be allowed to stream that game via any streaming service (that exists in the EU) of the consumer's choice, as long as the game is available on on that streaming service. This means that Microsoft has to allow an EU consumer who has purchased Call of Duty on Xbox to stream the game on the consumer's PlayStation streaming service (because Microsoft is still releasing Call of Duty on PlayStation).

I was just trying to explain that a license can be tied to machines, stores, individuals, etc. So a licence for an xbox game isn't a license for the same game on PS or even PC. So when they have the right to stream they mean for that particular license only.

 

[feynoob]

IMO it mean that it's upto the platforms to take up the license. Sony gets to decide if they allow a user who bought the game to streaming it via cloud. They probably wouldn't for non-sony purchases.

Not to mention both platforms are closed system and won't allow any 3rd party access to their platform.

The only option would be steam and other PC store's.

 

[Ogbert]

Just been catching up on the thread. Only just read the judgement (well, bits).

The CMA’s response is very, very odd. Really unusual to have that aggressive a reply to another regulator.

I have absolutely zero clue how this pans out.

 

[GHG]

He is backbencher with no experience in cabinet. I mean how much do you think he should have negotiated to lobby?

Considering the fact that he's now a backbencher with no future, a lot more than 2 grand a month.

 

[feynoob]

I was just trying to explain that a license can be tied to machines, stores, individuals, etc. So a licence for an xbox game isn't a license for the same game on PS or even PC. So when they have the right to stream they mean for that particular license only.

This right here.
Unless EU allows those streaming companies to stream PS and Xbox games.

There is also the store problem such as accounts and achievements. Usually those are locked to the hardware of the machine. So you need the exact copy of that game from that device, otherwise your experience would be different.

It's just a recipe for disaster.

 

[reksveks]

Not to mention both platforms are closed system and won't allow any 3rd party access to their platform.

The only option would be steam and other PC store's.

Xbox is weirder cause of GP and Xcloud but it's the combination of the two licenses, one for consumer and one for the cloud streaming services (irrespective of pc/consoles) does allow in theory some weird stuff if the cloud streaming services enable it.

These licenses will ensure that gamers that have purchased one or more Activision games on a PC or console store, or that have subscribed to a multi-game subscription service that includes Activision games, have the right to stream those games with any cloud game streaming service of their choice and play them on any device using any operating system.

 

[feynoob]

Just been catching up on the thread. Only just read the judgement (well, bits).

The CMA’s response is very, very odd. Really unusual to have that aggressive a reply to another regulator.

I have absolutely zero clue how this pans out.

It's up to fate at this point.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

I have absolutely zero clue how this pans out.

Both sides will check the CAT appeal timeline and cancel the deal after the July deadline. More or less what every market researcher told Bloomberg and other outlets yesterday.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Part of the reason why EC ruling doesn't matter for that deal. Also, new EU proposals to regulate AI can basically kill all the business in ths sector for EU customers and businesses.

So.. am I reading that right? EU is basically trying to pump the brakes on open source A.I in the EEA?

 

[Banjo64]

Revealed: senior Tory MP was paid £2,000 a month by lobbying firm

Bim Afolami ran a group calling for Rishi Sunak to overhaul the UK’s regulatory system

amp.theguardian.com

Bim Afolami, a former vice chair of the Conservative party, declared in the register of interests that one of his private clients was a public affairs firm, WPI Strategy. But he did not mention that they were paying him for his work running the Regulatory Reform Group of MPs.
As chair of the group, Afolami has written to the prime minister calling for regulators to be better held to account, and pressed Sunak for change at prime minister’s question time in the House of Commons.

The man questioning the CMA today…

So this is the gentleman who opened the questioning in the above video (not the chair).

Microsoft don’t even try to act discreet with their bribery, they give everyone the same sheet to read from.

As a reminder;

• He lead a very strange and thorough line of questioning about CMA engagement with the FTC and wanted to know when and how many times discussions occurred. (He didn’t seem bothered about discussions with the EC).
• Talked about US being litigation based (why would a UK MP care about this stuff?)
• Following that he blatantly accused the CMA of being an FTC satellite and said ‘wouldn’t it be useful if following those meetings you could block these deals on the FTC’s behalf’.
• He also asked about the reputational impact on the UK as being seen as ‘closed for business’.
• He asked why we haven’t cleared the deal when the EU has.

When I watched the video I thought ‘sounds like he’s been paid’.

Should be struck off from working in the public sector for life.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So.. am I reading that right? EU is basically trying to pump the brakes on open source A.I in the EEA?

If so, another win for MS's recent (and once open source non-profit) AI purchase.

 

[Banjo64]

I’m just surprised our boy Ben didn’t chuck in

‘MS could just leave the UK’

‘MS could just set up an independent Activision on the UK and carry on as normal’

And

‘The Cloud market is a myth’

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

So.. am I reading that right? EU is basically trying to pump the brakes on open source A.I in the EEA?

Yup. I've re-read twice to let it sip in, in all honesty.

 

[GHG]

So this is the gentleman who opened the questioning in the above video (not the chair).

Microsoft don’t even try to act discreet with their bribery, they give everyone the same sheet to read from.

As a reminder;

• He lead a very strange and thorough line of questioning about CMA engagement with the FTC and wanted to know when and how many times discussions occurred. (He didn’t seem bothered about discussions with the EC).
• Talked about US being litigation based (why would a UK MP care about this stuff?)
• Following that he blatantly accused the CMA of being an FTC satellite and said ‘wouldn’t it be useful if following those meetings you could block these deals on the FTC’s behalf’.
• He also asked about the reputational impact on the UK as being seen as ‘closed for business’.
• He asked why we haven’t cleared the deal when the EU has.

When I watched the video I thought ‘sounds like he’s been paid’.

Should be struck off from working in the public sector for life.

$200 an hour.

He's cheap.

 

[feynoob]

Xbox is weirder cause of GP and Xcloud but it's the combination of the two licenses, one for consumer and one for the cloud streaming services (irrespective of pc/consoles) does allow in theory some weird stuff if the cloud streaming services enable it.

But the issue from that is the device of the system.
Streaming companies can't use Xbox or PS without their permission. And you can't transfer your license to other stores.

This remedy only removes the cloud streaming license, as the user owns the license now. But that license is tied to that platform.

This is like stadia license. You as a consumer buys the game and plays it on the cloud. While the streaming company doesn't have to negotiate for a license. But you still need to play those games on those stores.

I think EU wants B2P kind of license, with no permission from the owner of the product.

 

[Pelta88]

This guy can't stop delivering copium to them

Serious question to everyone in the thread. At what point do we call disinformation, disinformation?

Like, does it help our discussion if someone who makes up shit and then gets posted here? None of what FOSS says in this tweet actually happened. Literally none of it. For me, that's problematic and an obvious distortion/made up narrative.

 

[GHG]

Serious question, does Microsoft have any individual that's publicly backing them who doesn't have a history of having close ties to them as an organisation and/or (more and) a history of taking backhanders?

Serious question to everyone in the thread. At what point do we call disinformation, disinformation?

Like, does it help our discussion if someone who makes up shit and then gets posted here. None of what FOSS says in this tweet actually happened. Literally none of it. For me that's problematic and an obvious distortion/made up narrative.

Lots of serious questions right now, but I think it's abundantly obvious to most people that everything that guy posts is disinformation.

 

[Tomeru]

This guy can't stop delivering copium to them

Wtf is goin on in that thread? It's in english yet I don't understand anything they say. Are they having a discussion or a monologue? It like everyone there has aphasia (not trying to diss, but I'm losing hair from all the scratching).

 

[Ogbert]

It's up to fate at this point.

I’m intrigued why the CMA appears to be so invested in this deal. It’s unlike the UK to be this defensive. Especially post-Brexit.

I don’t really buy the consumer protection angle. Consumers are awfully happy about Amazon’s total and utter monopoly. Now, it might be that the CMA is being quaintly principled and attempting to stave off an Amazon type scenario for cloud gaming. Valid, but again, that’s not actually for the benefit of consumers. Rather strict competition principles and encouraging a cartel of two or three as opposed to a monopoly of one.

Pick your poison.

 

[Banjo64]

Serious question, does Microsoft have any individual that's publicly backing them who doesn't have a history of having close ties to them as an organisation and/or (more and) a history of taking backhanders?

I think you know the answer GHG - no.

No sane person would go to bat for a company like Microsoft unless they were being paid.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I’m just surprised our boy Ben didn’t chuck in

‘MS could just leave the UK’

‘MS could just set up an independent Activision on the UK and carry on as normal’

And

‘The Cloud market is a myth’

"The Cloud market is a concern, but the CMA didn't say anything about what happens on clear, sunny days when there are no clouds. Hence, the CMA's decision makes no sense."

 

[reksveks]

But the issue from that is the device of the system.
Streaming companies can't use Xbox or PS without their permission. And you can't transfer your license to other stores.

This remedy only removes the cloud streaming license, as the user owns the license now. But that license is tied to that platform.

This is like stadia license. You as a consumer buys the game and plays it on the cloud. While the streaming company doesn't have to negotiate for a license. But you still need to play those games on those stores.

I think EU wants B2P kind of license, with no permission from the owner of the product.

Think we might have to see the full document to see what's the case here. I do see what you are saying.

BTW GFN is available on Xbox via the Edge browser.

 

[GHG]

This guy can't stop delivering copium to them

I've just noticed that he even went as far as to tag Bim Afolami.

This gets better and better, they aren't even hiding their connections at this stage. Scoop all these guys up and put them in the bin.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Serious question, does Microsoft have any individual that's publicly backing them who doesn't have a history of having close ties to them as an organisation and/or (more and) a history of taking backhanders?

You mean like this?

Fish.gif

 

[GHG]

You mean like this?

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's pure coinky dink tho. Nothing to see here.

 

[IFireflyl]

Because of the store where the consumers buy the product.

Steam is available to all streaming services like GeForce now. Sony doesn't allow other streaming services on their device. Same with Xbox as both of them are closed platform.

For example, GeForce now allows you to stream your owned games on the platform it supports, but companies who own those games have to allow them. This remedy removes that option.

This was the remedy:

To address the competition concerns identified by the Commission in the market for the distribution of PC and console games via cloud game streaming services, Microsoft offered the following comprehensive licensing commitments, with a 10-year duration:

• A free license to consumers in the EEA that would allow them to stream, via any cloud game streaming services of their choice, all current and future Activision Blizzard PC and console games for which they have a license.
• A corresponding free license to cloud game streaming service providers to allow EEA-based gamers to stream any Activision Blizzard's PC and console games.

Today, Activision Blizzard does not license its games to cloud game streaming services, nor does it stream the games itself. These licenses will ensure that gamers that have purchased one or more Activision games on a PC or console store, or that have subscribed to a multi-game subscription service that includes Activision games, have the right to stream those games with any cloud game streaming service of their choice and play them on any device using any operating system.

The first bullet point states that for the next decade, Microsoft must giving a free license to EU consumers that allow them to stream, via ANY cloud game streaming service of their choice, all current and future Activision Blizzard PC and console games for which they have a license for. It then specifies that if the EU consumer has a license for the game (with no stipulation for a platform requirement) that this bullet point applies. This means that if an EU consumer purchases Call of Duty via Xbox Series X, they have a license for the game. Since they have a license for this game, they must be allowed to stream this game via ANY cloud game streaming service per the first bullet point.

The second bullet point specifies that a corresponding FREE license must be provided to all cloud game streaming service providers in the EU for Activision Blizzard PC and console games. Sony PlayStation has its own cloud streaming in the EU, as does Amazon Luna. This means that Sony and Amazon must be given this free license for their streaming services.

Nothing in either of these bullets restricts the license to a specific platform.

I was just trying to explain that a license can be tied to machines, stores, individuals, etc. So a licence for an xbox game isn't a license for the same game on PS or even PC. So when they have the right to stream they mean for that particular license only.

See the above. The remedy from the EU doesn't specify that the game can only be streamed via a streaming service that is restricted to a certain platform. It states that if a license for an Activision Blizzard game is held by an EU consumer, then the game has to be allowed to be streamed via ANY cloud streaming service in the EU. The remedy itself uses the word "any", and it makes no distinction of the platform that the original license was for, nor any distinction on which streaming services the EU consumer can use per platform.

 

[Alesimage]

Satya doesn't leave ringfencing the UK off the table.... Interesting

 

[Tomeru]

 

[GHG]

Satya doesn't leave ringfencing the UK off the table.... Interesting

"The most pro-competitive thing I've ever seen"

Is he joking? What the fuck has been stopping you from competing in this space for the last 20 odd years?

 

[wOs]

Wait is the deal back on? So hard to follow this thread sometimes.

 

[Topher]

Wait is the deal back on? So hard to follow this thread sometimes.

No change really. EU approved, but CMA is still the roadblock.

 

[n111ck]

Wait is the deal back on? So hard to follow this thread sometimes.

No.

 

[feynoob]

This was the remedy:

To address the competition concerns identified by the Commission in the market for the distribution of PC and console games via cloud game streaming services, Microsoft offered the following comprehensive licensing commitments, with a 10-year duration:

• A free license to consumers in the EEA that would allow them to stream, via any cloud game streaming services of their choice, all current and future Activision Blizzard PC and console games for which they have a license.
• A corresponding free license to cloud game streaming service providers to allow EEA-based gamers to stream any Activision Blizzard's PC and console games.

Today, Activision Blizzard does not license its games to cloud game streaming services, nor does it stream the games itself. These licenses will ensure that gamers that have purchased one or more Activision games on a PC or console store, or that have subscribed to a multi-game subscription service that includes Activision games, have the right to stream those games with any cloud game streaming service of their choice and play them on any device using any operating system.

The first bullet point states that for the next decade, Microsoft must giving a free license to EU consumers that allow them to stream, via ANY cloud game streaming service of their choice, all current and future Activision Blizzard PC and console games for which they have a license for. It then specifies that if the EU consumer has a license for the game (with no stipulation for a platform requirement) that this bullet point applies. This means that if an EU consumer purchases Call of Duty via Xbox Series X, they have a license for the game. Since they have a license for this game, they must be allowed to stream this game via ANY cloud game streaming service per the first bullet point.

The second bullet point specifies that a corresponding FREE license must be provided to all cloud game streaming service providers in the EU for Activision Blizzard PC and console games. Sony PlayStation has its own cloud streaming in the EU, as does Amazon Luna. This means that Sony and Amazon must be given this free license for their streaming services.

Nothing in either of these bullets restricts the license to a specific platform.

The restrictions comes from where the game is purchased from.
Xbox and PS don't offer their platform to any of cloud providers.
For the EU remedy to happen, you need those platform holders to approve their system to be streamed by other cloud providers.

Which leaves only PSnow and Xcloud to be the only people that can stream those games. Unless these two platforms allow other companies have access to their platform, your license is restricted to them.

PC games however can be streamed by everyone, as you can access steam and other launchers.

So far, console users has to allow users to stream their games like stadia. And MS can't deny PC cloud companies from streaming Activision content as the users own the content.