SportsFan581
Member
Initially, I thought for sure both Sony & MS would stick to their standard pricing of $400/$500. Hopefully they don't go over $500 (says cheap bastard).
HeheInitially, I thought for sure both Sony & MS would stick to their standard pricing of $400/$500. Hopefully they don't go over $500 (says cheap bastard).
If they come out and say 13.2 TFLOPS or something like that I will roast so hard on this forum! lolI'm really glad that MS confirmed the TFLOP figure for their console. I think it's stupid this far along for anyone not to publish the specifications. If it changes, then it can just be a surprise. I think Sony hasn't posted theirs yet because they are enjoying everyone suggesting that they are only going to have a 9.2 TFLOP GPU and then they will surprise us.
Joey. Personally guessing $499. Same price bracket as the X, which resonated pretty well for its specs at that price (and for a mid-gen refresh, at that).
If the BOM is like $525 or lower, I think MS would be okay with taking a slight loss on systems sold. At most, maybe they'll sell it for $550. Either way, I hope there's something with Gamepass thrown in there, or maybe a free month or two of XBL and a free digital download.
If they come out and say 13.2 TFLOPS or something like that I will roast so hard on this forum! lol
Yeah it was a joke mate, I don't honestly think that.You are delusional if you think that this is going to happen. lol.
i thought the 12.1 gave it away. ms is goin big this time. gonna shit all over ps5 specs. good news is sony fanboys don't care about power.
how the fuck will that cost anything less than $600?
No matter what number it will be, one thing is for sure: There will be countless Nelson HaHa posts on NeoGAF.If they come out and say 13.2 TFLOPS or something like that I will roast so hard on this forum! lol
If they come out and say 13.2 TFLOPS or something like that I will roast so hard on this forum! lol
I think Sony will do everything to make it happen - they have no other relevant consumer brands left.
What has Sony got left in the product arsenal these days? Xperia? Walkman? Trinitron? Bravia? Vaio?
They're all dead Jim.
I think Sony will do everything to make it happen - they have no other relevant consumer brands left.
What has Sony got left in the product arsenal these days? Xperia? Walkman? Trinitron? Bravia? Vaio?
They're all dead Jim.
They also make great cameras and Tvs, but their competition is stronger in those markets. This gen the PS even had no competitor thanks to huge MS mistakes.Sort of agree. But I still like Sony products. Im typing this on an Xperia that's damn nice. And although I have gone with Vizio TVs for my last couple purchases (great bang for the buck) I'm going to go Sony in 2021/2022 for my next main TV upgrade.
Still, I mostly agree. Sony really only has one dominant product line and that is Playstation.
I bought a new Sony 4k TV in 2017. Solid picture quality and everything, but the audio ARC is now fucked since they did an update a year ago which interfered with ARC connections. I now have to use an optical cable which works fine. There were forums talking about it.Sort of agree. But I still like Sony products. Im typing this on an Xperia that's damn nice. And although I have gone with Vizio TVs for my last couple purchases (great bang for the buck) I'm going to go Sony in 2021/2022 for my next main TV upgrade.
Still, I mostly agree. Sony really only has one dominant product line and that is Playstation.
Initially, I thought for sure both Sony & MS would stick to their standard pricing of $400/$500. Hopefully they don't go over $500 (says cheap bastard).
One of our focus areas, gamers really demand a low latency experience and they want to have the most precise and responsive controls. So what we've really done is we've analyzed the end to end pipeline to really identify every area of the pipeline where we can reduce latency and Dynamic Latency Input (DLI) is a new technology we've introduced, which actually allows the game to get the most recent input from the player.
That way you don't miss your input even if your input happens between different frames. And when we talk about games running at 120 frames per second, that ultra-low latency is critical to having a really great gaming experience, so we knew we needed to improve everything from the controller to the console as well as the console to the TV with new features in HDMI 2.1 such as auto low latency mode (ALLM) or variable refresh rate (VRR). And it's really about getting the player to have that great immersive experience at all times.
And that's the thing, we're really proud of the experience that we have on Xbox One today, but as we think about the next generation, we knew that we needed to really focus on eliminating as much [latency] as possible.
They have money to throw at it though. Would be nothing for them. Corporations with deep pockets do this sort of thing all the time. If they are making a push for Game Pass and xCloud, it would make perfect sense. Expect $499.I cannot believe that this thing will go for under 549, less so 499.
If they do that, they will be hemorrhaging money just to deliver a kill blow to Sony that might not even work out.
I think Sony will do everything to make it happen - they have no other relevant consumer brands left.
What has Sony got left in the product arsenal these days? Xperia? Walkman? Trinitron? Bravia? Vaio?
They're all dead Jim.
You are delusional if you think that this is going to happen. lol.
They have money to throw at it though. Would be nothing for them. Corporations with deep pockets do this sort of thing all the time. If they are making a push for Game Pass and xCloud, it would make perfect sense. Expect $499.
Yeah. XSX APU die size is like ~405mm2 already, which is huge by console standards. It would be hard to imagine Sony going for a bigger chip... I mean XSX APU is already as big as possible for a console.
electric car division might displace tesla? /sI think Sony will do everything to make it happen - they have no other relevant consumer brands left.
What has Sony got left in the product arsenal these days? Xperia? Walkman? Trinitron? Bravia? Vaio?
They're all dead Jim.
The Flops performance measuring method is unreliable. It's only possible to compare two devices if they have the same instruction set architecture.No.
Only idiots think that somehow TF numbers are not equal between archtectures.
They are the same.
1 NV TF = 1 GCN TF = 1 RDNA TF
They measure theoretical max performance.
What idiots usually do: they benchmark games on PC and then say: if game A runs worse on a same TF GPU somehow it means that these TF are devalued.
In reality it only means that the game does not extract max performance from that GPU.
They have money to throw at it though. Would be nothing for them. Corporations with deep pockets do this sort of thing all the time. If they are making a push for Game Pass and xCloud, it would make perfect sense. Expect $499.
Everybody agrees that both consoles will be a match in RAM, right? So that cost is irrelevant. The PS5 controller will probably be a bit more expensive than the XSX controller. Haptic feedback and all that are going to drive cost.I cannot believe that this thing will go for under 549, less so 499.
If they do that, they will be hemorrhaging money just to deliver a kill blow to Sony that might not even work out.
The Flops performance measuring method is unreliable. It's only possible to compare two devices if they have the same instruction set architecture.
Different architectures handle operations (like floating point operations) differently.
Some have more parallel units, some have a better pipeline than others, some do the same operations at half the cycles, etc.
So no, they aren't the same.
If you don't believe me, read Computer Organization and Design (5th edition) by John Hennessy and David Patterson.
It's presented as a pitfall and fallacy with an excercise in the first chapter.
You should first research before calling others idiots
The Flops are not the same. You can't compare different architectures with flops.The architectures are not the same. The real performance can be different.
Yet the flops are still the same and measure the max theoretical performance.
The Flops are not the same. You can't compare different architectures with flops.
You can compare within the same architecture with flops, but it's meaningless when you compare it with another architecture.
Flops measure the max theoretical floating-point performance within that architecture, not the overall performance and not among architectures.
Read the book, that chapter it's not too long.
Everybody agrees that both consoles will be a match in RAM, right? So that cost is irrelevant. The PS5 controller will probably be a bit more expensive than the XSX controller. Haptic feedback and all that are going to drive cost.
+$5 Sony
Then there's cooling. Microsoft designed a console that makes use of the chimney effect (hot air goes up) to transport heat from the APU away. They only need a large and silent fan at the top to support the natural airflow. Sony is rumored to have an expensive cooling solution.
+$10 Sony
Without doubt the simple 15x15x30 cm rectangular design of XSX costs less for plastic than whatever fancy design PS5 will have.
+$12 Sony
Both use an UHD drive, so that is irrelevant. Same for the ports, they will use HDMI, several USB ports. Unless Sony goes with USB-C for PS5, cost would be the same, with USB-C they would spend around $5 more on the console.
+$12 Sony
Sony uses a custom SSD that is supposedly very fast. Microsoft uses a DRAM less SSD that isn't as fast, but it is cheaper. The cost difference in OEM pricing is around 7.50 for 500 GB.
+$19.50 Sony
The power supply depends entirely on the power consumption. Microsoft is on a 7nm+ node, so they consume 15 % less energy than a 7nm chip of the same size. In reality, that evens out the die size, so a 355 mm^2 PS5 would consume as much power as a 400 mm^2 XSX APU if they are clocked at the same speeds. Power supply will be a bit more expensive for Xbox based on a higher number of CUs, but lower because of lower clock speeds. It's a match between them.
+$19.50 Sony
That basically leaves the APU. The cost of an APU is directly linked to its size. A bigger APU costs more. With an expected increase because of 7nm compared to 16nm while 7nm+ has comparable cost and yields, you are looking at 50 % more than the APU in a One X based on a comparable size. That's around $165 for XSX. The PS5 will based on AMD leak and Pro size end up at $150.
+4.50 Sony
So at the end of the day, it is absolutely possible that not only is Microsoft targeting 399 (of course with a substantial $75 loss) just as Sony - but that PS5 actually costs more to produce. We had the same situation with PS4 and Xbox One, where Xbox One was both weaker and more expensive in terms of BOM. It's looking a lot like that continues.
If Sony has a 12 TF APU on the other hand, the only cost differences will be the ones before, so in that case PS5 would cost around $20 more to produce and would very likely be more expensive despite being just as powerful. Microsoft made some very smart decisions with the SSD and the overall console design that will translate into huge savings. Panos Panay beats Mark Cerny.
Really? LOL the XSX will not be $399wow. I think one of the best posts in this thread.
Everybody agrees that both consoles will be a match in RAM, right? So that cost is irrelevant.
The Flops are not the same. You can't compare different architectures with flops.
You can compare within the same architecture with flops, but it's meaningless when you compare it with another architecture.
Flops measure the max theoretical floating-point performance within that architecture, not the overall performance and not among architectures.
Read the book, that chapter it's not too long.
he think you need a master degree to login into this forum.... and he has managed itYou logic is beyond idiotic. How on Earth do you presume to know what Phil Spencer, or anyone at Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo for that matter, are capable of handling?
We had the same situation with PS4 and Xbox One, where Xbox One was both weaker and more expensive in terms of BOM. It's looking a lot like that continues.
$499 most likely, but $599 isn't out of the question I think, this machine is designed for and with the hardcore gamer in mind.Really? LOL the XSX will not be $399
It's easily worth $599 but I think they need to be aggressive and match Sony or be $50 more.$499 most likely, but $599 isn't out of the question I think, this machine is designed for and with the hardcore gamer in mind.
Microsoft knows how well (or bad X sold), they had no issues taking a risk with that and they are doing it again, so it probably sold well.
The audience this is likely targeting doesn't really care much about $50-100 difference or the price altogether at that and most likely why Lockhart exists.
Without the memory setup and SSD capacity it's hard to say and whether it's assisted by an HDD and it's capacity, $599 wouldn't surprise me though in all fairness.
I look forward to "dead on arrival" posts![]()
It seems flops only matter if your winning, when your loosing it done at matter. Same when resolution was important till another console got higher resoloution then it didn’t matterFLOPS as a measure were used left and right in supercomputers which all have vastly different architectures.
Essentially each one is a different architecture.
If you want to quote the book. Just do it here.
Flops is a measure of performance that specific computing architecture cannot exceed. That's about it.
So true.Really? LOL the XSX will not be $399
It seems flops only matter if your winning, when your loosing it done at matter. Same when resolution was important till another console got higher resoloution then it didn’t matter![]()
Its time for Xbox to get a leadership change (Phil can continue in the team) Why ? gaming industry is headed for a consolidation.
1. Steam's business model is built on the hardwork that microsoft has put in. Just like Apple benefits from app store sales. Microsoft will challenge steam. and xBox series x is powerful enough to lure pc gamers ?
2. Nintendos' business ? xCloud streaming on mobile will take away market share from handheld console business.
3. Sony comes to cloud gaming on azure and microsoft makes money off it.
With potential revenues of this magnitude IMO i do not think Phil can handle this. There needs to be a leadership change. and those people who will invest in xbox console will not be dissapointed, MS will dominate gaming.