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[bRacing]

The Xbox One X is the most powerful console today but it still gets outsold by the PS4. PS is the more popular, stronger brand and they have the reputation of having great games on every PS console

Globally, PS5 will arrive in more homes easily

XBX is a mid gen console. Huge difference.

 

[deccangamer]

I think the 8K print on the XSX APU might not just be marketing. DirectML has flown under the radar for a year, because raytracing seemed like the bigger deal. But the Reddit leak from January 2019 mentions Microsoft AI. Using DirectML you could actually upscale a 4K image to 8K, like it has been proven to work for 1080p to 4K. Xbox Series X might actually be a full 8K console.

Hardware & Tech News - OC3D.net

OC3D is where you can find the latest PC Hardware and Gaming News & Reviews. Get updates on GPUs, Motherboards, CPUs, and more.

www.overclock3d.net

Left side is the result of DirectML in 4K, right side is the native picture (1080p).

NVIDIA On-Demand

A searchable database of content from GTCs and various other events.

on-demand.gputechconf.com

Forza Horizon 3 is shown at 15:41. This could be the real secret sauce Microsoft has for XSX. If they have DirectML upscaling to 8K in hardware on the APU, that propels the console to the equivalent of a 48 TF APU. It's absolutely crazy.

Similarly, the console could render raytracing at 1080p because of the huge performance impact and then simply use machine learning to reach 4K with much better and most of all faster results that could be achieved by using raytracing at 4k.

Isn't this similar to checkerboard rendering ? It would be great if it was done on the fly at a hardware level and not at the software level.

You are right, this could be huge for XsX.

 

[darkinstinct]

Isn't this similar to checkerboard rendering ? It would be great if it was done on the fly at a hardware level and not at the software level.

You are right, this could be huge for XsX.

No, checkerboard rendering is creating pixels based on rendered pixels. In layman's terms it takes the surrounding native pixels and estimates what the one in the middle should look like. Deep learning algorithms create pixels based on assumptions over how the image should look like. It can create pixels out of thin air. It's much more powerful because it sort of has an understanding of what a pixel should look like instead of looking at existing pixels and just creating an average. Think of it more as a human. If you draw a roof, you know there should be a house under it. With checkerboard rendering, it would still just be a roof. With deep learning, it can create the house under the roof based on knowing what a human knows. The downside is that it needs training data. Checkerboard rendering is a completely local process.

 

[Ascend]

Average human is stupid, and then there are less than average ones.

It is just annoying how masses are willing to spend money for shit like nightclubs, alcohol, drugs, iphones, brand clothing, restaurants, and stuff like that, but console would be too expensive if it costs 1/3 of an iphone? And people buy phones way more often than consoles. Even I buy new every 3-4 years and they usually cost 400-600e

It's like masses throw their money to fire like maniacs but when they see consoles, they became childish bastards whom want to limit the fun from others because they need that extra 100$ to buy beer or eat out because they are fat and lazy.

IF extra 100€/$ would give lets say 20-30% more performance, of course it would be worth it in the long run.

How can they be gamers anyway if 100 is make it or break it situation? After all way too many pay full price for digital games and launch games, so money cant be the issue. It must be just shitty attitude and lack of logic.

"I wont pay more than 300 for a console, but I pre-order every damn yearly sports game as 99€ deluxe edition"

Just buy the more expensive system and wait few games to drop from 70e to 20e = money spent is equal vs buying cheaper system with 2 full price games.

I have spend maybe 2000e into ps4 from the launch, mostly used / sale games so console price isnt the biggest investiment for serious gamers anyway

I know that market will follow what average bastards want, and it is sad as average bastards are those that slow down the evolution of tech because they spend their money in shit and then cry that they have no money for a console.

I understand your sentiment. The thing is, a phone will probably be used a lot more than a console. You have a phone with you all the time, and it has many more use cases since it's always with you. Granted, most people use their phone simply for social media, but that's another story. The point is that a console will remain at home and can be used during free time only, and the value people extract from it seems less since they can practically put less time in it compared to a phone. It's the same reason people spend more money on their phone than on their TVs. Most people that buy a $1200 phone get a $500 TV.

Then there's the whole plan thing for phones. Two things people mainly use their phone for is calling and internet. Service plans are offered to pay the phone during a two year period for example, where it becomes a monthly cost rather than the whole value up front. Consoles generally do not get the same treatment, and the whole price needs to be paid up front. Sure, there are options for doing it for consoles, but it is not the standard like on phones.

Another thing to take into account is that you buy a phone, and technically, you don't have to spend anything else to really use the majority of its features. There's hotspots/wifi everywhere. For consoles, it's another story. You have to pay to play online and you have to pay for the games... It comes down to more than just initial cost.

 

[Kazekage1981]

So this may be slightly off topic, but DirectML, Direct x 12, DiretRaytracing, and Microsoft specific machine/deep learning, cloud support the Universal Windows Platform for game development instead of win32? The only game that used UWP for forza motorsport 6 apex.

 

[M1chl]

So this may be slightly off topic, but DirectML, Direct x 12, DiretRaytracing, and Microsoft specific machine/deep learning, cloud support the Universal Windows Platform for game development instead of win32? The only game that used UWP for forza motorsport 6 apex.

Nah, they are SDKs, it's not bond to UWP, it's also win32(64)...

 

[South]

Although I am sure that Microsoft will consider DirectML for old games, I think you are missing some additional potential for it. A theoretical Lockhart console/XCloud blade, that cannot render a 4K image, could render a 1080P image, and if connected to a 4K display, would look closer to a native 4K image than the simple upscale, thus "simulating" the power of a higher teraflop device. Microsoft is probably assuming widespread 4K display adoption over the next 5-7 years. I read somewhere recently about 4K having 50% market penetration (I cannot recall if it was sales or install base), and gamers likely have a higher take up rate for 4K than the general public.

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam - this shows less than 2% using 4k displays!

As of 2018, around 31 percent of U.S. television households made use of 4K Ultra HDTV products.

Between those figures, we can safely assume the global population that has 4k access is less about 15%, while steam stats for 2020 will be higher most people are happy on 1080p.

People vastly other estimate enthusiasts with the average consumer.
Thats why if Xbox put out a 1080p box for half the price it will be sales hit - there is no need for the extra HP for 4k if you dont have a 4k set.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Thats why if Xbox put out a 1080p box for half the price it will be sales hit - there is no need for the extra HP for 4k if you dont have a 4k set.

Not sure, because people also have the tendency to think "Oh but what if I buy a 4K tv in the next 2 years?". Not everyone makes so rational decisions.

 

[Panaphonics]

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam - this shows less than 2% using 4k displays!

As of 2018, around 31 percent of U.S. television households made use of 4K Ultra HDTV products.

Between those figures, we can safely assume the global population that has 4k access is less about 15%, while steam stats for 2020 will be higher most people are happy on 1080p.

People vastly other estimate enthusiasts with the average consumer.
Thats why if Xbox put out a 1080p box for half the price it will be sales hit - there is no need for the extra HP for 4k if you dont have a 4k set.

Yup. And with Series X they still can dominate DF threads, so for the vocal hardcore gamers XBOX is still associated with „most powerful“ - if the leak is true, that PS5 is only 9TF

 

[JAMMA]

4K adoption rate was supposed to be about 50% at the end of 2019. Hell, practically EVERY TV for sale is 4K regardless of how cheap.

1080p is dead, just the same as people claimed 1080p wasn’t ever going to take off even when budget displays were reaching sub $500 levels. 4K reached that price point long ago.

Steam users are probably reporting their monitor resolutions, which are typically 1440p or lower.

 

[CyberPanda]

4K adoption rate was supposed to be about 50% at the end of 2019. Hell, practically EVERY TV for sale is 4K regardless of how cheap.

1080p is dead, just the same as people claimed 1080p wasn’t ever going to take off even when budget displays were reaching sub $500 levels. 4K reached that price point long ago.

Steam users are probably reporting their monitor resolutions, which are typically 1440p or lower.

Agreed

 

[Bandi]

4K adoption rate was supposed to be about 50% at the end of 2019. Hell, practically EVERY TV for sale is 4K regardless of how cheap.

1080p is dead, just the same as people claimed 1080p wasn’t ever going to take off even when budget displays were reaching sub $500 levels. 4K reached that price point long ago.

Steam users are probably reporting their monitor resolutions, which are typically 1440p or lower.

Western Europe and the USA currently lag behind, but are expected to catch up to 46% and 50% by 2023, because of a faster replacement rate of home tech in the west.
Perhaps the most surprising result is from Japan, where UHD takeup is likely to struggle to barely 19% by 2020 and 32% by 2023.

How quickly is 4K being adopted in the home? This seminar told us everything

How quickly is 4K being adopted in the home? This seminar told us everything

www.redsharknews.com

So, yeah. 4K adoption is low - even in 2023 only 50% adoption rate. There are much more 1080p today and whn nextgen consoles launch.

 

[01011001]

So, yeah. 4K adoption is low - even in 2023 only 50% adoption rate. There are much more 1080p today and whn nextgen consoles launch.

well yeah but that rate will go up soon. you basically have to specifically search for 1080p screens nowadays as 4K is absolutely becoming the standard for new TVs and 1080p is basically only sold in very small TV now

 

[Mod of War]

STOP DERAILING THE TOPIC! Ugh.

 

[CyberPanda]

What is variable rate shading: Xbox Series X feature explained

How Microsoft hopes to have the visual edge over Sony’s PS5 with Xbox Series X variable rate shading

www.gamesradar.com

 

[darkinstinct]

Did Sony ever talk about VRS or machine learning? These could be two killer features if XSX has them and PS5 doesn't. I think these techniques will offer huge performance gains over the console lifecycle, as more and more devs get used to them and understand how to use them for maximum impact.

 

[ZywyPL]

Did Sony ever talk about VRS or machine learning? These could be two killer features if XSX has them and PS5 doesn't. I think these techniques will offer huge performance gains over the console lifecycle, as more and more devs get used to them and understand how to use them for maximum impact.

As of today, if anything, that's Sony with their CBR who know how to save a lot of performance without much sacrifice/penalty. But it's more than certain PS5 will have some sort of equivalents to MS techniques, just for the sake of all the 3rd party games compatibility alone.

 

[darkinstinct]

As of today, if anything, that's Sony with their CBR who know how to save a lot of performance without much sacrifice/penalty. But it's more than certain PS5 will have some sort of equivalents to MS techniques, just for the sake of all the 3rd party games compatibility alone.

So you think that haptic features of PS5 won't get much use from third parties like the touchpad, because Microsoft doesn't support it?

 

[ZywyPL]

So you think that haptic features of PS5 won't get much use from third parties like the touchpad, because Microsoft doesn't support it?

Judging by how DS4 and DS3/Sixaxis turned out to be utilized, absolutely. I wan't be surprised if even 1st party devs forget about DS5 extra futures 2-3 years after release.

 

[Shin]

Ashish Shukla out of network 3rd+Sr ASIC Manager at AMD
2w
Nice to see the coverage. As the SOC DV lead, the custom chip was my baby for about 1.5 years.

I tracked him down myself, direct link to his LinkedIn page through the image above.
See how it reads, it sounds like quite the chip they baked and a lot left to be revealed.

 

[darkinstinct]

I tracked him down myself, direct link to his LinkedIn page through the image above.
See how it reads, it sounds like quite the chip they baked and a lot left to be revealed.

An ARM based OS with full CPU available to games would be great. What are IP teams?

 

[Night.Ninja]

The fact that ms had come out so early does about the TF does anyone think that 12TF is the base line and the xsx could be pushed a bit higher? Or the fact that they know Sony can't go higher than that?

 

[01011001]

The fact that ms had come out so early does about the TF does anyone think that 12TF is the base line and the xsx could be pushed a bit higher? Or the fact that they know Sony can't go higher than that?

if the leaked GPU found is exactly the specs Microsoft uses then it can theoretically be pushed to about 14TF with an overclock to slightly above 1.9ghz (from the 1.7ghz we think it is running at)

the issue here is that Microsoft's cooling solution would need to be ready for this, and we don't know anything about it.

what they could also do is activate an additional 2CUs to gain more power but that would increase cost of the console, so this is very unlikely to happen.

 

[darkinstinct]

The fact that ms had come out so early does about the TF does anyone think that 12TF is the base line and the xsx could be pushed a bit higher? Or the fact that they know Sony can't go higher than that?

TBH I don't think they care. Phil seems confident that Xbox will neither be outpriced nor outperformed. I am still firmly in RDNA2 vs RDNA territory, simply because Microsoft knows they can't just hope that Sony messes up, the whole Game Pass idea depends on market domination. That's what they are going for. And XSX will be a testament to that. Weak gens always have a massive comeback.

 

[SportsFan581]

TBH I don't think they care. Phil seems confident that Xbox will neither be outpriced nor outperformed. I am still firmly in RDNA2 vs RDNA territory, simply because Microsoft knows they can't just hope that Sony messes up, the whole Game Pass idea depends on market domination. That's what they are going for. And XSX will be a testament to that. Weak gens always have a massive comeback.

I agree with the logic that after a flub you want to come out swinging, if you can afford it (poor Sega). However, I doubt the competition is going to lay at their feet. MS's position wouldn't have an impact on Sony IMO.

 

[spartan30gr]

Do we have a digital event on march 18 for microsoft?
I hope to see some news for xbox series x

 

[SleepDoctor]

The fact that ms had come out so early does about the TF does anyone think that 12TF is the base line and the xsx could be pushed a bit higher? Or the fact that they know Sony can't go higher than that?

I think its more due to them knowing or at least thinking they know Sony's specs.

If 12 tf was their baseline and Sony announced 12.1 for example, the fanboys would be up in arms...... till ms unveiled a 15 tf premium sku then there would some serious meltdowns here. Especially considering we've seen many already just off rumors .

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

01011001 Another issue with pushing the GPU even further is that the cooling would have to get pricier, raising the BOM, and that could affect either pricing or how much they bleed on each unit. And that could even affect planned features like Gamepass service bundles with each system sold (if that was something they were planning), etc.

That said I very much think they HAVE tested the system for higher GPU clocks and are just going with the more conservative one simply to see if Sony has any surprises they can adjust to via implementing one of the other GPU clock profiles. They probably already have the profile settings stabilized, but would rather not implement them if it increases BOM.

 

[Ritsumei2020]

Well my comment was mostly a joke and I still urge people to not confuse Teraflops with power/performance. I see it on a daily basis.
Otherwise you will eventually see people saying 12 Xbox Series X Teraflops is like 200 Gamecube Teraflops or 800 SNES Teraflops

You Sir (Lady?) knew your stuff