Other than Lost Odyssey - I love that game - MS sure did waste a lot of money chasing the Japanese market.
Microsoft making at least four new IPs
- Thread starter GarthVaderUK
- Start date
Other than Lost Odyssey - I love that game - MS sure did waste a lot of money chasing the Japanese market.
Clay Davis
Member
any particular reason you and others are ignoring the live arcade line up?
Yeah. I hope they just ignore japan next-gen. Invest more in pal regions and south america.
I was under the impression that Connected Experiences was founded to help 3. party studios with releasing games for Windows Phone, Windows 8/RT and XBLA. Basically relive Xbox Live Productions off some duties.
Just ignore them guys.
Anyway I'm actually interested in what MS do next gen, they've been hiring the best developers going and they have the money to support them.
Personally some of the games I'd like to see:
An Spy RPG
A stealth Ninja title, maybe a sequel to Mark of the Ninja?
A proper attempt at a platformer.
Anyway I'm actually interested in what MS do next gen, they've been hiring the best developers going and they have the money to support them.
Personally some of the games I'd like to see:
An Spy RPG
A stealth Ninja title, maybe a sequel to Mark of the Ninja?
A proper attempt at a platformer.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
I think some generally see them as lesser games as they're downloadable and have smaller budgets, even though many XBLA (and PSN) games are made for people like us. Didn't we recently have Journey as our GotY?
They pretty much have for the past couple of years.
I always get the impression that they don't matter when it comes to these discussions as they go against the narrative.
Also for many on here 'core' games seem to mean retail full price games only.
I hope for something unique. I am okay with shooters and new action games, but show me something I have not played yet.
They shouldn't ignore the Japanese devs though as many will still want to have a choice of western outlet. But as a gamer place they are obviously not feeling the Xbox brand. Europe is a more open area in terms of building on.
But they have a lot of work to do. Live is paltry in many euro places.
I expected Microsoft to do this at the launch of a new system. It makes no sense to only launch with only tried IPs. They did it with the 360, so they'll experiment again with the Durango.
I guess half the people here expect the PS4 to never let you play a game right away, and to have updates that force you to go make a sandwich or take a nap before you play again?
I mean, we are basing our expectations off current hardware/software and not on a company trying anything new/better...right?
I don't mind ignoring Japan as a market, just don't ignore Japanese games (they won't)....I enjoy them.
Also, I want to see a proper Banjo or Conker game....and a GOOD attempt at Perfect Dark.
I guess half the people here expect the PS4 to never let you play a game right away, and to have updates that force you to go make a sandwich or take a nap before you play again?
I mean, we are basing our expectations off current hardware/software and not on a company trying anything new/better...right?
I don't mind ignoring Japan as a market, just don't ignore Japanese games (they won't)....I enjoy them.
Also, I want to see a proper Banjo or Conker game....and a GOOD attempt at Perfect Dark.
Nope, IPs should always belong to their creators.
Now we just need them to actually do something with said IP's. Especially Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon.
Connected Experiences is tasked with that "large scale multiplayer" game and helping internal studios... they did go by a different name a few years ago ... something flaming ... arrrggghh
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
They were created by Microsoft the same way games like Heavy Rain, LittleBigPlanet, Heavenly Sword and many other independent developer collaborations were created by Sony. If you wanted to ask which IPs Microsoft owns, that's a completely different thing.
Owning an IP created by a third party developer is a double-edged sword. Sony is known for insisting on keeping the IP of games they publish, which is great for them, but not so great for studios they collaborate with (that's why some of the first party games Microsoft has published would never have become first party games on PlayStation; people who invest the effort in fleshing out an IP very much like the idea of reaping the benefits of it, too), and not so great for gamers when they decide to abandon the IP that could otherwise be kept alive by another publisher.
I much prefer Microsoft's approach, I think it's fairer to the creators. That said, one of the reasons why they've been investing in so many internal studios recently is precisely the desire to build a better IP portfolio.
My post wasn't in reply to yours.
Clay Davis
Member
lesser games? what in the bloody hell. O_O this is just depressing. come to think of it, didn't someone call live arcade and psn gaming ghettos?
yeah, I can see ignoring them if they go against a certain narrative. still very stupid to pretend they don't exist just to make some silly point.
digital games this gen have been incredible, some of the best exclusives are been digital titles.
Some even won GOTY awards last year.
They are ghettos in the sense they're not on the level playing field with retail games like indie games are on Steam. But I think it's the mentality of the mainstream (casual) gamer as well as your typical Gaffer. They have no problems shelling out money for Chivalry or whatnot, but when a similar game drops on XBLA, "Microsoft neglects their core fanbase yadayada".
It's just marketing. They were selling very well in US and EU, so they were trying to go after that last market they just couldn't crack. Sadly they couldn't figure out the Japanese market only buys their own for the most part in this industry.
Clay Davis
Member
indeed and rightfully so. I can help but feel 2012 will be the year we'll look back to as the one that changed our perception of digital games and what we can expect from them.
want niche titles? this is where you'll find them next gen. want indies? look no further than psn or live arcade. I also feel this is where the exclusives battle next gen will take place after the initial launch period.
I just don't believe that's true any more. it might have true before 2012, but last year was the year digital came into its own and I can only see it growing as the games on offer increasingly start to offer experiences closer to and better than retail games.
it already happened with mark of the ninja, trials evolution, journey, unfinished swan to name just a few.
the bolded is all too true sadly.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Indeed. Frankly, so-called gamers disgust me more and more each day. On numerous occasions I've witnessed more genuine enthusiasm for games coming from people who don't consider themselves gamers at all, and that's so damn sad.
I wouldn't accuse the Japanese of being xenophobic, Microsoft didn't understand their market at all. Rather than offering a disruptive innovation, they simply went for very stereotypical vision of a Japanese gamer, without games that would be particularly awesome. Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon were decent, but not outstanding, nor was there ever a promise of 360 getting support of Japanese devs worthy of the successor to PS2 (ie. the market leader at the time).
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I ignore MS XBLA games because the only reason they are published by MS is due to their XBLA policies being designed for large publishers with contract lawyers on hand, with the end result that for an independent to get onto XBLA they are often forced to accept MS as a publisher, and with not particularly favourable terms as a result.
It is also usually indie titles that have already received pre-release buzz or interest of some sort, and are already on peoples radar, so the benefits brought by MS as a publisher are arguable at best.
That is a far fucking cry from MS funding a development studio to create titles from scratch.
Clay Davis
Member
absolutely agree. I can only see it getting worse next gen sadly. ah well, I tend not to let it get me down too much, even in all the cynicism and negative drum beating, there's a few people showing some enthusiasm for the latest releases.
they tend not to post too much, can't blame them to be honest.
I assume you have sources to back up such a claim.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
It's not exactly an industry secret. Spend 5 minutes on google.
This was one of the better publicised rants by an independent.
Minecraft on 360 was a spectacular seller, Trials Evolution sold around the same as Trials HD in the same timeframe (which is bloody good), but the rest of XBLA games relatively underperformed in 2012, same on PSN excluding Journey. They're far far behind retail games in terms of mainstream recognition. Getting 90 metacritic aggregate score and selling only 100k like Mark of the Ninja did shows there's still a huge gap between a retail release and a XBLA game.
Can Crusher
Banned
When Bioware came to them(or they went to Bioware) they could've simply made a deal where the IP was theirs. Like Sony usually does.
I don't see how not owning the IP serves MS long term.
Tripp Daily
Member
My dream:
Chromehounds with Minority Report (Accurate) controls.
(yes I know about the debacle that is steel battalion and yes I know chromehounds is a Sega IP)
I don't see how a game fan can prefer the situation where the creative people get little power over their creations (and their destiny). That's why Insomniac is trying to branch away from Sony as they have no control over what happens with Resistance or their other games next.
Clay Davis
Member
thanks, I'll read it a little later and give a more detailed response. a quick glance suggests his basic suggestion that live arcade is flagging simply is true, the numbers pretty much prove him wrong. will it be big for all games? well no, but then steam isn't big for all games either.
anyway, I need to dedicate some time to reading the article, so will form a more detailed response at some point.
true enough, but it's a start. this year will see digital games coming into their own and I feel it will explode toward the end of the year or when both consoles launch and have a selection of exclusive digital games as well as the retails games.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
While you're at it read up on Jonathon Blow, Team Meat and Introversions feelings about dealing with MS on XBLA.
EDIT:
I'm not saying XBLA is not a worthwhile platform; I'm saying you shouldn't credit MS for others success, when MS have effectively bullied their way onto riding on someone elses coat tails.
The Nature Roy
Member
100k? Not that I don't believe that number, but can you point me to a source?
Anyway, that's pretty depressing. Mark of the Ninja was likely the best game I played all of 2012. I hope it fared better on Steam.
Many MS XBLA policies are outdated or just dumb, but suggesting they have no active part in XBLA being such a success* (at least compared to PSN and or Nintendo stores) is even dumber.
*in attracting quality games and making those games sell
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Er, when a developer doesn't want to give up their IP rights, they'll go to a different publisher, it's as simple as that. And you've lost a potentially lucrative title.
Can Crusher
Banned
I don't understand this. When warner brothers makes a movie, the production house behind it doesn't own the IP. That doesn't mean that whoever is making the movie doesn't have creative power.
Also Insomniac wants to do multiplatform to make more money, using FUSE as evidence of a developer that is finally creatively free is...funny.
Right right, that's why that happens so often...IPs are mostly owned by Publishers.
Imagine Bungie just leaving with Halo. MGS needs to create a stronger sable of IPs, that's just the way it is.
Between this and the difference between "correct" and "corrected", your post is just trash in a can.
This is completely wrong.
If I'm not implying IPs owned by MS, how does it make sense to say MS created them? Since MS never really creates anything, game development studios and their creatives do. It's a matter of logical deduction.
Also, Heavy Rain and Little Big Planet and Heavenly Sword are all owned by Sony.
"Fair" doesn't even register when those non owned IPs are suddenly becoming multiplatform games.
85k at the end of December, courtesy of GAF's Rlan:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Ryan..._Live_Arcade_Sales_Analysis_December_2012.php
Hollywood works in a different way, everything there is contract based, they used to be studio based like video games but that's no longer the case. Teams are assembled for one specific film and disassembled after its production.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
The film industry functions in a completely different way. A production house contracts out pretty much the whole creative force - writers, actors, directors, composers and so on - for a single film, and then it disbands. A game development studio, even with all the outsourcing, doesn't function like that at all. There are many, many more differences.
That does happen often, especially today when there are so many ways for an independent studio to get its project done.
abacab driver
Banned
Had no idea Mark of the ninja sold that low..an absolute shame.
Top 5 game of 2012 easy.
Top 5 game of 2012 easy.
Agreed. Awesome awesome game.
It's more than twice that if you include PC version as well. So overall it was most likely a profitable venture.
Can Crusher
Banned
That's why I said production houses. Legendary for example.
This all works better with examples.
The discussion is still about MS needing to building IPs they own, not about what is fair for game creators.
I believe though that IP ownership doesn't necessarily automatically go to companies like Warner Bros or Paramount or XX Century etc. Not too mention money comes from a lot more sources in you typical movie production than in your typical games development.
Pretty much all independent developers' goal is to own the IP they are working on. Microsoft doesn't cede their IP ownership when the developer has no leverage over them (they do own Crackdown, Project Gotham, Iron Brigade etc.). However, when they are dealing with big established developers like Bioware or Epic they are willing to let the developers have the IP rights, while obviously those big devs provide their talent and expertise. Sony on the other hand seems to not work with a big independent studio at all than give up IP ownership.
Well, look where Gears of War and Mass Effect are (even if that relationship was interrupted) and where are Heavenly Sword, Lair and other series Sony contracted to mediocre studios.
edit: the discussion is what's the best solution overall. I firmly believe IP rights should be in ideal scenario in the hands of its creators and I like when it's the case. How many IPs Microsoft has or not is not my concern.
This is a horrible way to generalize how things are done.
While there are developers who have, and will, complain, there are others who have voiced great experiences. It all depends on the contract signed, issues during development, and a million other things.
I also don't agree that only games that have already garnered hype are the games MS publishes. They have hosted Dream.Build.Play multiple times and have given publishing deals as a prize.
Is MS perfect in this regard? No, of course not, but the same can be said for ANY other publisher. One aspect of XBLA that needs to change, and I hope will change next gen, is some of their policies seem to be outdated. Some policies that devs have bitched about though, such as the requirement for leaderboards, are for the benefit of us gamers though.
Microsoft (as evident by job postings) usually does have people with/within in the studio (creative directors,producers,artists) so in a way they do "create" games.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
So why does Microsoft let the studios own the IPs? Not saying it's a bad thing, but it seems like every game Sony publishes they make sure they keep the IP. I guess Bioware's the only one they've really lost, though they did manage to get a year exclusive on ME2, something which is rare for an EA game.
I thought this might be interesting:
1) The Birmingham is suprising, it was always though to be Kinect test site. Maybe the are becoming an actual studio or they become some kind of helper studio?
2) This guy is one of the numerous Codemasters staff that has joined Rare. I mean long time producers and designers at Codi who have done major racing games.
Things to note:
1) The Birmingham is suprising, it was always though to be Kinect test site. Maybe the are becoming an actual studio or they become some kind of helper studio?
2) This guy is one of the numerous Codemasters staff that has joined Rare. I mean long time producers and designers at Codi who have done major racing games.
Clay Davis
Member
more weight to the water based racer from rare rumour?
It does add a bit more weight to the rumour.