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[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Lots of people online right now posting on GAF are awfully mad about this big problem of being online...

Remember this game?

It was called Bionic Commando: Re-Armed 2

It was DRM free on Xbox 360, and Always Online DRM only on PS3.

During the infamous PS3 outage... The game was unplayable.

Now imagine an entire console dedicated to this trainwreck of DRM.

.

 

[Phat Michael]

I just woke up. The fallout in this thread is amazing. maybe you should wait untilnthe console launches before proclaiming never to buy a Microsoft product again? or at least wait till one game is shown?

 

[Mxrz]

A little late but what's wrong with Blacksburg, VA? Jerks.

This bothers me more than the always online stuff. Its a real concern for anyone in a rural area, and this prick is like 'lol move.' That a dandy of a message to be putting out there, Microsoft.

 

[kingocfs]

They actually confirmed both of those on two separate and unrelated occasions. Diablo 3 getting offline mode for its PS4 port is also quite telling:

http://www.examiner.com/article/diablo-3-ps3-and-ps4-exclusive-offline-mode-further-explained

Well look, here's to the idea that Sony will never require me to be connected to the internet in order to play a video game on their machine. Ever.

But I'm sorry, I don't buy the idea that they won't be pressured to take steps in that direction in the future if their competitor is doing so and publishers are applying pressure. That is where my skepticism lies, and it's something only time will be able to tell. Releasing Diablo 3 over a year after everyone who gives a shit about it has played it and forgoing the DRM doesn't really speak volumes.

 

[Pikma]

Serious answer:

Huge amount of metrics. Game devs always want to know HOW people are playing their games in all sorts of different ways. Having an always-connected console will give you a huge pool of data. Also, advertising. Also, stuffs piracy. A lot of people don't think it's worth it, but to a dev that's not a horrible deal.

Because allowing people to play their games offline when they're not able to connect to the internet will prevent them from getting that info, huh? Totally worth it /sarcasm

 

[SneakyStephan]

Fools shouldn't get a soap box to stand on, his 'as long as I get mine' mentality is everything that's wrong with the western world.

Anyhoo fuck MS I'll stick to my PC next gen.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Yeah but no, but... like, we don't wanna be confined to always being online man!

Some of the concerns raised in this thread are so funny. Deployed troops not being able to play. That huge military market that MS might miss out on. Fighting game comps.

How about countries with shit Internet conection but with a large userbase?

 

[FStop7]

Is Blacksburg even that rural? VA Tech has like 30k students alone. I've been to Redmond, it's not like it's a gleaming metropolis.

 

[RiccochetJ]

"Oh no, I read too much into a twitter conversation and was bamboozled, I hope this person is fired."

"Oh no, I'm in an elevated position and as an employee of the company I'm supposed to represent I should watch what I say in public so I don't damage the brand."

 

[VeryGooster]

"Please be connected."

 

[TheSeks]

Bioware dude: HE WAS JUST TROLLIN' GUYS, SRSLY!
MS dude: I DON'T REALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ALWAYS ONLINE! LOOK ELSEWHERE! I WASN'T SERIOUSLY GUYZ!

GAF and the internet:

This is soooo going to be hilarious tomorrow morning when I wake up and a bunch of discontent from the game community shows up at the MS doorstep. Reddit and a bunch of sites that picked up on the "news" is negative. MS has to be in panic mode if they think they're going to get away with this move if true.

"Please be connected."

Please understand we want to target ads to you through always online and we can't do that if you're playing Ass Creed offline!

 

[Can Crusher]

The amount of negative buzz MS is generating among the hardcore is gonna bite them real fucking hard early on the console's life unless it's cheap, or some huge exclusives are announced.

 

[The Wraith]

Lol if Microsoft pulls this shit they deserve to crash and burn next generation. If this is true looks like I'm going to be exclusive to Sony and Nintendo. It's been fun MS but fuck what you turned into.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Is Blacksburg even that rural? VA Tech has like 30k students alone. I've been to Redmond, it's not like it's a gleaming metropolis.

This is why context matters - it was a joke, but people are ready to charge ahead without thinking - nor do they want to.

 

[orznge]

"Oh no, I read too much into a twitter conversation and was bamboozled, I hope this person is fired."

I disagree vehemently with his opinion, which may reflect the nature of his professional work, so as a consumer I would prefer that the company in question does not employ him so that there is a higher chance that they produce a product I would like to purchase

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Always online confirmed?

Microsoft 2013 == Sony 2006 confirmed, what's more.

 

[Daingurse]

...

That gif never stops giving.

 

[Calamari41]

Lots of people online right now posting on GAF are awfully mad about this big problem of being online...

If my internet goes out, I can browse websites via data on my phone or one of a million other devices. In an Xbox world, if the internet goes out, there is no way to play videogames. Good thing I'll have a Wii U and PS4 instead.

 

[CLEEK]

Serious answer:

Huge amount of metrics. Game devs always want to know HOW people are playing their games in all sorts of different ways. Having an always-connected console will give you a huge pool of data. Also, advertising. Also, stuffs piracy. A lot of people don't think it's worth it, but to a dev that's not a horrible deal.

That's part of it, but advertising* and piracy aside you've just listed the benefits to devs.

As far as MS are concerned, if they mandate online, they know that every single Xbox owner has access to, and is a potential customer of, all the other services available on the next Xbox.

With always online, MS will ensure they are selling the next Xbox the the exact consumer demographic they want. Kids playing second hand games on an offline Xbox doesn't fit in with their goal for the Xbox platform. They want it to be a digital hub for all online entertainment; Games included, but by no means the primary activity. It's been pretty celar for a few years that non-gaming services play as big a part in their goal for the Xbox platform. A vision that can't be realised with offline consoles.

*You can't overlook the potential benefit for selling targeted advertising to consumers who can have all their entertain and browsing history tracked. Even if the ad space if just used by existing service partners to target their particular service to Xbox users.

 

[bud23]

As someone who lives in one of those small towns with spotty internet, I'd just like to say Fuck you @adam_orth, and fuck you too, Microsoft.

Wtf is with idiots in this industry disparaging their customers over any sort of criticism.

This guy has the potential to becoming the most annoying and arrogant person in the whole industry. (cliffy b redeemed)

Spoiler

sorry Cliff

Hey adam_orth, Why on earth would I buy a Durango?

 

[BloodMoney]

Did that fucker just talk shit about Virginia Tech... Blacksburg consistently gave me a ping of 5 to 9 in CounterStrike from 2000-2005.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Well look, here's to the idea that Sony will never require me to be connected to the internet in order to play a video game on their machine. Ever.

But I'm sorry, I don't buy the idea that they won't be pressured to take steps in that direction in the future if their competitor is doing so and publishers are applying pressure. That is where my skepticism lies, and it's something only time will be able to tell. Releasing Diablo 3 over a year after everyone who gives a shit about it has played it and forgoing the DRM doesn't really speak volumes.

Blizzard is not exactly a small publisher. And admitting that they screwed up in one feature (that was the main reason for the implemation of that DR) is not exactly a small deal...

 

[José Mourinho]

I just hope not being able to use your console when it's not connected to the internet wasn't one of those funny concerns for you.

Well like I said, once MS actually confirm that's how it will work we'll see. But until then, you've all just decided how this will turn out with next to no information. So sorry if I don't shit my pants just yet.

And honestly, I'm fine with it. My power and internet were on and off for two solid days last week due unseasonable weather. Believe it or not, I got by those few days without gaming.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Sony wouldn't dare have an online-only console after the PSN Outage humbled them.

I'm not sure Microsoft has had the same revelation. They didn't have a lot of outages, but they also didn't respond to them in the same manner.

 

[Roche]

Personally, I'm against it not because I'm afraid I won't be able to connect. I'm against it because I have absolutely no reason to like it.

It does nothing for me but add a little extra degree of hassle that is unnecessary. It just seems like an entirely anti-consumer idea and I don't like giving money to companies who indulge in that sort of business.

 

[Gordon0Freeman]

My fanboy side wants what my fanboy side wants.

Well, you can go back to gamespots system wars. Microsoft entering te gaming industry is probably the best thing to happen despite there always online strategy. Them failing next gen, which I doubt, will only push its competitors. I'm sure they have went through every scenario that could happen, so they will definitely have something special planned for the next Xbox.

 

[Lunar15]

Missing the point ENTIRELY.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Lots of people online right now posting on GAF are awfully mad about this big problem of being online...

Yeah, but my computer still works for other things when my internet goes down. I can still work with programs in my computer, play games, scan pictures, draw, organize pictures, create movies, listen to music offline, watch movies offline, etc.....

 

[Deleted member 47027]

That's part of it, but you've just listed the benefits to devs.

As far as MS are concerned, if they mandate online, they know that every single Xbox owner has access to, and it a potential customer of, all the other services available on the next Xbox.

With always online, MS will ensure they are selling the next Xbox the the exact consumer demographic they want. Kids playing second hand games on an offline Xbox doesn't fit in with their goal for the Xbox platform. They want it to be a digital hub for all online entertainment; Games included, but by no means the primary activity. It's been pretty celar for a few years that non-gaming services play as big a part in their goal for the Xbox platform. A vision that can't be realised with offline consoles.

Thanks for adding to that - you're completely right. Especially since MS is working with cable providers to put Durango in more peoples' homes, cable subscribers, which goes hand in hand with internet connectivity. It doesn't have to sell shitloads at retail (Gamestop for instance) to dig into a shitload of living rooms.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

It is shameful to condemn a feature without knowing it's context or purpose.

Nobody on this forum or any other forum is without Internet access. You are not protesting the feature due to lack of access.

Nobody ever said Microsoft were requiring a good Internet connection, just that you had to have one. For all we know the features that they are requiring this for could be achieved on a 2G cellphone network.

The comment about those cities was obviously a joke with his buddy. Not a policy decision, duh.

I'm not defending the guy at all. I think he was really stupid to even discuss rumors and deserves to get punished, but let's be realistic about the company's intentions. They are not going to exclude a significant number of towns in America from Xbox.

Lots of people online right now posting on GAF are awfully mad about this big problem of being online...

I love it.

We are social beings and the Internet is our main means of connecting now. Connecting games to the Internet sells more copies and makes more money.

 

[syko de4d]

the amount of comments on reddit are amazing, already over 2000 :lol

 

[dokish]

I disagree vehemently with his opinion, which may reflect the nature of his professional work, so as a consumer I would prefer that the company in question does not employ him so that there is a higher chance that they produce a product I would like to purchase

The consumers are not always right. Most of them are stupid. So we gotta them 'em what they want.

"Please be always online guys, seriously. This is good".

 

[Krappadizzle]

I was a huge 360 fan until I made the switch to PC gaming even though I own the PS3 as well. It really seems like MS doesn't want me to be a fan anymore. I've got over 40 games for the 360(as opposed to my meager 6 games for PS3) GabeN is gonna love me for the foreseeable future.

 

[Sorral]

Well look, here's to the idea that Sony will never require me to be connected to the internet in order to play a video game on their machine. Ever.

But I'm sorry, I don't buy the idea that they won't be pressured to take steps in that direction in the future if their competitor is doing so and publishers are applying pressure. That is where my skepticism lies, and it's something only time will be able to tell. Releasing Diablo 3 over a year after everyone who gives a shit about it has played it and forgoing the DRM doesn't really speak volumes.

Sorry, but what? Maybe a little bit pressured, but they will have to be fucking stupid to not cash-in on MS's bad moves. Judging by their current moves, they will almost certainly cash-in on this by not having the PS4 always-on and I am sure publishers who sell in more than one country wouldn't like to lose on people with a bad connection.

I see it going one way more than other. By far.

 

[TheSeks]

This is why context matters - it was a joke, but people are ready to charge ahead without thinking - nor do they want to.

It doesn't matter if it's a "joke" and the cities mentioned aren't as terrible. The fact is: no one has 100% reliable internet and requiring offline-titles (like singleplayer) or single-player portions of multiplayer games to REQUIRE online is fucking stupid no matter how you slice it.

And US soldiers deployed to Iraq or other warzones that take consoles with them to play in the downtime could not play an online-only-required console. Fact.

 

[JCreasy]

Well look, here's to the idea that Sony will never require me to be connected to the internet in order to play a video game on their machine. Ever.

But I'm sorry, I don't buy the idea that they won't be pressured to take steps in that direction in the future if their competitor is doing so and publishers are applying pressure. That is where my skepticism lies, and it's something only time will be able to tell. Releasing Diablo 3 over a year after everyone who gives a shit about it has played it and forgoing the DRM doesn't really speak volumes.

What will that pressure mean if install base numbers remain weak because of this decision?

 

[Majanew]

The amount of negative buzz MS is generating among the hardcore is gonna bite them real fucking hard early on the console's life unless it's cheap, or some huge exclusives are announced.

Yep. The negativity surrounding the next Xbox is very bad news. Of course, MS can wash those fears away when revealing that the system doesn't actually block used games and that an internet connection is not mandatory.

But there's those that will already have been turned off. Spreads like fire and MS isn't putting it out. Most likely because it's true.

 

[TEH-CJ]

What a load of skata.

 

[Extra Sauce]

I wasn't that offended by anything he said until the "Why on earth would I live there" comment. That one empirically proves that the guy is an asshole.

 

[twinturbo2]

This isn't going to end well...

 

[MrDaravon]

Yeah but no, but... like, we don't wanna be confined to always being online man!

Some of the concerns raised in this thread are so funny. Deployed troops not being able to play. That huge military market that MS might miss out on. Fighting game comps.

So because it doesn't affect you, it's not a problem? I would bet money there are literally thousands of Xboxes used by military personnel overseas. Fighting game competitions have gotten huge; there's sponsorship and money now, fuck I think the last EVO had several hundred thousand unique viewers? I watched one last weekend that had around ~25k viewers at once. Then you have GAFers who have posted in this thread about living in areas (especially outside the US) where their internet is shit and goes down frequently.

How are these not legitimate concerns?

And honestly, I'm fine with it. My power and internet were on and off for two solid days last week due unseasonable weather. Believe it or not, I got by those few days without gaming.

That's not a fair comparison; NO ONE has control over the weather. Microsoft has complete control over this.

It's fair to say that people should wait and see what actually is the case with the console, but these are still legitimate concerns IF that is true.

 

[Uno Venova]

Well like I said, once MS actually confirm that's how it will work we'll see. But until then, you've all just decided how this will turn out with next to no information. So sorry if I don't shit my pants just yet.

And honestly, I'm fine with it. My power and internet were on and off for two solid days last week due unseasonable weather. Believe it or not, I got by those few days with out gaming.

It's completely fine if you don't shit your pants. However I hope you can figure out why so many people believe it might be true with all the sites reporting the same thing and the manner Microsoft employees react to that news. Others are not as fine with these companies choosing when you can game or use the other features of your console without relying on their servers or your own ISP.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Well, you can go back to gamespots system wars. Microsoft entering te gaming industry is probably the best thing to happen despite there always online strategy. Them failing next gen, which I doubt, will only push its competitors. I'm sure they have went through every scenario that could happen, so they will definitely have something special planned for the next Xbox.

That massive list of PC devs they killed are sure glad MS went into the console market.

 

[Mechazawa]

"Oh no, I'm in an elevated position and as an employee of the company I'm supposed to represent I should watch what I say in public so I don't damage the brand."

"...and thus, FINANCIAL RUUUIIIIIN."

Sorry, can't spin that comment as anything other than impassioned and stupid.

 

[Dreamgazer]

Bioware dude: HE WAS JUST TROLLIN' GUYS, SRSLY!
MS dude: I DON'T REALLY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ALWAYS ONLINE! LOOK ELSEWHERE! I WASN'T SERIOUSLY GUYZ!

The primary problem here is that Manveer Heir didn't get into a twitter conversation with him until the 3rd-4th "always on" tweet.

His case is more believable if he just tweeted at Heir in the first place.
Unfortunately, now it'll look like damage control even if he really just intended to troll one person.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Serious question, what is the main reasoning, if thats allowed in this thread, that Microsoft would implement an online only console? What would their benefit be to this?

Disable second hand games?

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

I'm still in the "I don't care I'll buy it anyways" camp.

Xbox Live doesn't even go down often, it rarely goes down. I'm okay paying for a system even if it's always online. I have Internet, Microsoft has a good history with their servers, I don't care. I want my Forza 5.

 

[Replicant]

Well look, here's to the idea that Sony will never require me to be connected to the internet in order to play a video game on their machine. Ever.

But I'm sorry, I don't buy the idea that they won't be pressured to take steps in that direction in the future if their competitor is doing so and publishers are applying pressure. That is where my skepticism lies, and it's something only time will be able to tell. Releasing Diablo 3 over a year after everyone who gives a shit about it has played it and forgoing the DRM doesn't really speak volumes.

Which is why we're fucking pressuring MS to drop this BS so this shit doesn't spread. If you think I won't do the same thing to Sony if they ever entertained this BS, you have your brain all fucked up. My agenda is not to support Sony but rather to support my own need to not have my rights to the games I bought limited to when I have online access only. Sony, MS, are just means to an end. If one company supports what I want then that's who I'd support. It's as simple as that.

 

[Metroidvania]

It is shameful to condemn a feature without knowing it's context or purpose.

Nobody on this forum or any other forum is without Internet access. You are not protesting the feature due to lack of access.

Nobody ever said Microsoft were requiring a good Internet connection, just that you had to have one. For all we know the features that they are requiring this for could be achieved on a 2G cellphone network.

The comment about those cities was obviously a joke with his buddy. Not a policy decision, duh.

It's also shameful to miss the point that the internet is FAR from being a 'never breaks down' type of service like electricity or water.

Things can go wrong on your end, on the Provider's End, or even on Microsoft's 'handshaking' or whatever they use.

And that's not to mention that the internet is NOT available everywhere, at least, for the quality level that using a current-gen console requires.

Complaining that people who are talking about the negative aspect of required internet access are being hypocritical because they are viewing this page using the internet seems a rather foolish/misguided attempt at creating an analogous argument.

I love it.

We are social beings and the Internet is our main means of connecting now. Connecting games to the Internet sells more copies and makes more money.

How does 'requiring' the online portion of the service suddenly generate more copies compared to an 'optional' online multiplayer service? What tangible benefit is there for gamers?

That's what MS has to sell us on.

 

[BlackJace]

I just woke up. The fallout in this thread is amazing. maybe you should wait untilnthe console launches before proclaiming never to buy a Microsoft product again? or at least wait till one game is shown?

You wont be able to play that one game if you're not connected, though.