Yearsoflurking
Member
.. most of this is terrible and don't remedy no pun intended the problem. At this point nothing short of purchasing studios will get them out of their current situation.
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Microsoft Studios (& Partners) Current and Future Landscape
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#1 and he already wants to turn Rare into a fable factory?
I'm not saying giving Rare Fable to work with is necessarily a good idea, but once they make one game you know how it's gonna go. I don't agree with that at all.
Honestly that whole article just screams "this is what I want give it to me", not actually giving any proper solutions in the long term
Partnering with external devs is the best we can hope for for now. They aren't gonna magically establish a bunch of new studios out of the blue.
Yearsoflurking
Member
That's why i said purchasing not establishing
Any suggestions? I'm having a hard time thinking of any that are realistic and can move the needle.
Platinum maybe?
Crytek
IO Interactive but they have probably missed the boat there
I think there's another studio with financial problems aswell but I can't think ATM
hah
It's not just a matter of "i like this studio, buy it". One, i doubt xbox division have that money to spare. Two, the studio needs to want being bought out, and work for Microsoft. Don't know many who would fit this description. Maybe IO Interactive?
They would probably sell themselves to Atari or just die instead of being bought by Microsoft
To this day they still refuse to sell Ryse rights
I was more of referring to multiplayer for Halo but now that I think about it I'm shocked they haven't gone some kind of RPG open world single player considering Halo's all time best levels are large and open with multiple pathways to completion like the missions Halo and The Silent Cartographer.
Do you guys think the now existence of Destiny will have a large impact on Halo 6's development? Destiny only came out a year before Halo 5 so not really enough time to evaluate its successes. I don't think 343 lives in a cave. They've had to have spent a lot of time with Destiny, Doom, Overwatch, Titanfall 2, etc. Breath of the Wild and God of War learned a lot from the games that came before it to mold its new form. What will Halo take away? The first person shooter landscape is already fairly different than it was in 2015.
I don't want Rare having Fabled lumped on them, I like the fact they are focused on new IP solely and want to work on multiple at once. Fable would only restrict that, and to be honest after what they have done with Sea of Thieves I would rather see what is seemingly a really creative team could also do. Rare has shown they are not afraid of genres and that they are one of the only triple AAA teams that will take a risk on a triple AAA IP making something different, the fact that a MS studio is doing that and they are being encouraged to and are seeing success in that is special. MS mandate is GAAS, if I had to choose between all their studios going down the normal route or Rare make a GAAS game that is a colourful cartoon co-op open world shared world pirate game then I will go with Rare every time.
How dare you call Crimson Skies nonsense it's one of the best Xbox IP /s But really I think Crimson could be a good IP to bring back in the form of an Ace Combat game with the story mode, I always thought it would be cool if Crimson skies had a crazy story and multiplayer were multiple ships from different IP and different times like super far future and WW1 planes were in the same universe. A crazy time dimension story were you have a pelican and WW1 bomber next to each other, treat each plane like a different hero like overwatch and have a capital ship like a behemoth in BF1. Have the Infinity in the sky and then a map from Gear of War, with WW1 planes and a Banjo Kazzoie Nuts and Bolts style plane next to each other like overwatch heroes. It's crazy, like a adult version of one of Nintendos multiple IP games.
It's a fun article. I'm gonna go point by point on this one...
1. Fable at Rare COULD happen eventually, but it would require Sea of Thieves to wrap up, and for a creative director over there to both want to make Fable and for Microsoft to agree to whatever pitch comes out of that desire to make it. I'd rank that one as very unlikely.
2. I don't know enough about this one... Shadowrun sounds like a pretty inconsequential IP for them though. And making a shooter RPG is very expensive. I don't think this would be viable, but like I said, I don't know much about it.
3. Could happen, and could be a mid-tier game, assuming Splash Damage has staff available shortly.
4. This will not happen unless Microsoft has money to burn. It would be another niche game that wouldn't move units, and would be very expensive to produce. I'd say this is basically ipossible.
5. Sure! Could be another cheap mid-tier game that might, alongside GREAT new Halo and Gears games, might help turn the console's perspective around. Depends on interest from those involved, but I could see it... but probably not using the NInja Gaiden IP. Maybe a spiritual successor of sorts?
6. No. As much as I'd love a new Splinter Cell, I think it will indeed happen, but Ubisoft will want it to be far bigger than it's been, and an exclusive partnership would not be seen as a great move to help the franchise's growth. Ubi is too big. This would be too expensive. Just doesn't make any sense.
7. I don't really see why rebranding indies as XBLA would do anything, but sure. I also strongly disagree with the narrative that Xbox Live is still a major competitive advantage over PSN. PSN is likely quite a bit bigger than XBL at this point.
1. Fable at Rare COULD happen eventually, but it would require Sea of Thieves to wrap up, and for a creative director over there to both want to make Fable and for Microsoft to agree to whatever pitch comes out of that desire to make it. I'd rank that one as very unlikely.
2. I don't know enough about this one... Shadowrun sounds like a pretty inconsequential IP for them though. And making a shooter RPG is very expensive. I don't think this would be viable, but like I said, I don't know much about it.
3. Could happen, and could be a mid-tier game, assuming Splash Damage has staff available shortly.
4. This will not happen unless Microsoft has money to burn. It would be another niche game that wouldn't move units, and would be very expensive to produce. I'd say this is basically ipossible.
5. Sure! Could be another cheap mid-tier game that might, alongside GREAT new Halo and Gears games, might help turn the console's perspective around. Depends on interest from those involved, but I could see it... but probably not using the NInja Gaiden IP. Maybe a spiritual successor of sorts?
6. No. As much as I'd love a new Splinter Cell, I think it will indeed happen, but Ubisoft will want it to be far bigger than it's been, and an exclusive partnership would not be seen as a great move to help the franchise's growth. Ubi is too big. This would be too expensive. Just doesn't make any sense.
7. I don't really see why rebranding indies as XBLA would do anything, but sure. I also strongly disagree with the narrative that Xbox Live is still a major competitive advantage over PSN. PSN is likely quite a bit bigger than XBL at this point.
Obsidian has made in known that they would like to be acquired. But purchasing a 200-person studio in the bay area is almost certainly outside of whatever the Xbox Division's budget is these days.
And regarding Ryan's article, it's a solid piece of fan-fiction! Stuff like that is always fun to read. Though I don't really get his obsession with Rare doing Fable. Sure that franchise should come back but I just don't see it there. Let them keep cranking out new IP, it's what Microsoft desperately needs. Also agree with others that at this point they need studios, plain and simple. Even just a couple of extra, let's say 50-person studios, would go a long way.
The most releastic solution that I can imagine ACTUALLY happening would be side projects at their big first parties and/or an initiative to sign a slate of new partners dedicated to new first-party content.
LiquidSolid
Member
Of course and I wouldn't have said anything if I wasn't already replying to someone else. But I can agree with your sentiment, derails are usually pretty frustrating.
Wow, this has to be the weirdest reply I've gotten before. It comes off like an unending stream of consciousness. I guess I'll cut out most of it, including the passive aggressive attacks, and stick with this bit.
As far as your original post goes, it isn't the first time I've read that ridiculous argument and it won't be the last, so yes, I was very dismissive. And sorry but your clarification is still ridiculous. Whether Gravity Rush 2 did or did not add to the perception isn't for you to decide. It wasn't just one or two games that made Q1 2017 such a big talking point, it was the endless stream of great games and Gravity Rush 2 was one of those. So no, you don't get to say it doesn't count and pretend it doesn't exist, just like I wouldn't say Halo Wars 2 doesn't count even though it also flew way under the radar.
Steelyuhas
Member
If you ever listen to the ign Xbox podcast, those are exactly the things he wants haha.
I mean his idea for shadowrun, a mp only competitive shooter is to make an open world rpg with it...?
Bits N Pieces
Member
Playground
Ninja Theory
Dontnod Entertainment
Fullbright
Crytek
Supergiant
And there's loads more out there. Or they could just take in individuals to create studios, they would need to actually do something with them and not let them waste away like Casey Hudson.
Ninja Theory
Dontnod Entertainment
Fullbright
Crytek
Supergiant
And there's loads more out there. Or they could just take in individuals to create studios, they would need to actually do something with them and not let them waste away like Casey Hudson.
Well, if its the same shadowrun franchise i'm thinking about, it was a rpg to begin with so it could work
I just don't think there are that many shadowrun fans out there to justify the investment
Poodlestrike
Banned
I mean, half the posts in this thread are variations on "MS is DOOOOOMED because they don't subscribe to my preferences!" Not enough Japanese games, needs more AAA exclusives, must change Halo/Gears in exactly these ways but not those ways, etc. etc. Stone and glass houses, m8.
(That's not to say that the people saying any of that are wrong but you get the idea).
Yearsoflurking
Member
They would absolutely not axe cry engine branch. They'll continue offering to devs
CaptainSlow
Member
There are a lot of great, independent developers MS could buy if they actually wanted to and expand their first party.
The problem is, no matter who they would buy (which I doubt they ever would buy another studio anymore), they would likely be turned into a franchise factory.
IO would be a Hitman only studio, Crytek would make a new Ryse every 2 years, Dontnod would just make Life is Strange for eternity, Playground would be a Horizon facto...wait, it already is.
I just don't trust them with ANY studio, even the ones they already have not to fuck it up somehow and they have to somehow magically prove they won't do that.
The problem is, no matter who they would buy (which I doubt they ever would buy another studio anymore), they would likely be turned into a franchise factory.
IO would be a Hitman only studio, Crytek would make a new Ryse every 2 years, Dontnod would just make Life is Strange for eternity, Playground would be a Horizon facto...wait, it already is.
I just don't trust them with ANY studio, even the ones they already have not to fuck it up somehow and they have to somehow magically prove they won't do that.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yes, it is. But considering what the MSFT game was, that's an odd suggestion.
I would be excited if they wanted to port Shadowrun to a modern engine that would enable them to make new content for it easily and release it as a F2P shooter.
Ryan is a cool guy and an amazing interviewer, one of best in this industry (if not the best)
But...this was not very bright
''humm, spend dozens of millions of dollars funding my dream games!!''
Microsoft need incubators. Let devs spitball ideas, that could easily be staff at their studios like 343, Rare, Turn 10 etc. let them be creative and wild, see if anything comes of it. Some devs might welcome that avenue and could even be downtime away from the pillar franchises and in a roundabout way maybe even help those franchises but mainly create new IP and technology. Microsoft Studios should be just that, not siloed off into Halo, Gears, Forza etc. Give Microsoft Studios and devs some freedom to stretch their legs and be more creative.
LiquidSolid
Member
Please tell me you're joking.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Most of that would be alright but I don't think he's getting at some of the issues some fans have. If you look at the list, a lot of it is "bring this back" and a "reboot this". From what I have read over the years, things like new AAA IP from their studios or expand current ones considering how few they have had (of course Lionhead has now gone so it's minus another one)
A decent read but to me it felt like a big nod to nostalgia, which I personally don't believe is the big fix needed.
You people always take this weird idea that microsoft is forcing people to work on famous, big franchises against their own will. Turn 10 do forza games because forza games are profitable, not because MS is ordering them to at gunpoint. 343 was a studio made to do Halo games and outfitted with people wanting to work with Halo products - no one entered the company dreaming to make the new 2D platformer of their dreams. even coalition, which indeed had another game in the works before being remodeled to work on gears, had no objections on milking GoW for their own benefit as well.
Steelyuhas
Member
That's the version of shadowrun Ryan refers to in his article.
LegitMcfalls
Member
Here is a fun idea that will never happen but give Fable to 343, Halo to coalition, Gears to Rare. Lets see how other dev teams work on established IPs.
I think destinys influence will show its head more in the next iteration of warzone imo. I think Halo 6 will have the standard SP, arena MP, and warzone will have more RPG/customization elements to it. Right now basically it's just weapons and extra grenade perks etc but I expect it to be where you choose which kinda spartan archetype you wanna use for Warzone (faster,tankier etc) and each class will have its own skill tree.
That way purists can still have their arena(still gonna complain) and Warzone will continue to grow and capilize on Destiny
LiquidSolid
Member
He references it but I wouldn't say that's the Shadowrun he has in mind based on this bit: "give Shadowrun fans what they've always wanted."
Regardless, the whole article makes it seem like he's stuck in the past. I can't see resurrecting a bunch of dead IPs doing much for anyone.
I'd rather not have the Coalition handle Halo. I'm perfectly fine with 343. I'd rather see Rare continue doing new IP's like SoT.
In all honesty, I'm fine as is.
Ironic to say the least including you seeing a non existent "attack", you cut the rest for a different reason but okay I'll go with it.
"Isn't for you to decide" It is funny that you still don't realise an opinion or how to realise the point behind an opinion which you obviously have a different one on. I don't know why you bring up Halo Wars 2 it's not something I would disagree with you on anyway. I'm glad you realised the conversation you are having is only about video games though. I'll just post over this quote from my other post "I will leave this here as no more added discussion from me will add or change anything to the context or what you believe it to be and as not to derail the thread."
element
Member
None of these really 'fix' first party. If anything just shifts problems to other spots.
Pretty much, meaningless unless Nadella loosens those purse strings. The only part that seemed feasible was giving Fable to Rare.
Also this:
is nonsense. Hellblade, LawBreakers, Undertale and Matterfall, all top tier indie games out this month with no Xbox versions.
Oh Ryan...
Is that really enough to turn around the franchise though? Idk I would be pretty disappointed if that's all they really changed.
Personally I'm hoping for new art style, new campaign direction, strike like firefight missions
Or maybe I just want better Destiny
Ryan's article is unrealistic. MS best option is to have smaller devs and outsource smaller projects to bolster the lineup. Your Ori's, Cupheads,killer instinct's, recores are imo best method. Since the Xbox budget isn't super high and there's less risk
- take fable legends and turn it into a 3rd person hero shooter/ fighting game
- Quantum break dlc/small game starring future Beth(size of American nightmare)
- Recore 2 using UE4
- take fable legends and turn it into a 3rd person hero shooter/ fighting game
- Quantum break dlc/small game starring future Beth(size of American nightmare)
- Recore 2 using UE4
Nightengale
Member
True, but it's the more financially realistic approach of " WHAT IF MS BUY SOMETHING RELATED TO PUBG" which is somehow a talking point.
Bluehole has way too much secondary baggage ( studio based in Korea, Tera IP, mobile games, increased valuation due to PUBG success ) that imo, it's not worth it to buy an entire publisher just for PUBG.
If a publisher really wants their own PUBG, I'd argue there is still room to DOTA2 it up.
This right here!
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Doesn't Microsoft own the Shadowrun IP? If so, im surprised that they didn't contract Harebrained Schemes to port over Shadowrun Returns and the expansions to Xbox One as I would have definitely purchased it. Oh well.
I mean what do you mean turn around the franchise. It's not going to sell 12+ million units anymore. But it can sell 8 million copies and be played for 2+ years between releases
Stuff like spartan ops and probably a higher focus on chief are likely givens due to th reaction of 5. As for art style, I mean it's halo so probably not
When I say art style I mean I want more of a Halo Wars 2 less Halo 4/5. More stylized.
And I mean turn around perception if anything, in the top five most player shooters on Xbox.
element
Member
PUBG is a total fluke. I don't think there will be a similar 'new' game that can go from zero to 7 million in less than 6 months.
MS really shouldn't even be looking at acquiring companies or talent. They should partner with either smaller talented studios or partner with who is left for large scale independent developers (Crytek, Insomniac, Croteam, Arrowhead Game Studios).
The original should have used UE4. Never understood why they picked Unity for that game.
Microsoft licensed Shadowrun to the original creator Jordan Weisman and thus to Harebrained Schemes. MS really doesn't care about any of the FASA properties at this point.
Right ow halo 5 is the 8th most played shooter. But also this is a weird situation because we have 4 COD games in the top 20. Presumably in 2018 Black ops 2 & 3 wouldn't be hanging around. So it probably would be a top 5 shooter
They were either given a smaller budget or a deal to use Unity
PanicFreak
Member
Nothing says moving forward like rolling out the corpses of your past!
Well the Halo Wars art style was developed by 343, by (new) Jeremy Cook who is one of the two art directors at 343. Part of his design ethos behind it was that he wanted to merge redesigned elements (silhouettes) of Halo 4, Halo 5, Reach and 1,2,3's art styles together under a more gritty realistic grounded art style. You see all the different grunts from every game for example including a lot of completely new designs but under this new palette and grounded art style. It's seems to have worked very well and the overwhelmingly positive response from fans makes it a good chance we will see that art style going forward especially with
old and new Halo/ spirit of fire and infinity colliding in Halo 6.
Yearsoflurking
Member
The biggest problem with partnering with studios is that you only have so much control over staff and deadlines; where as internally the studio director has full control over staff and workload
Another issue is ip ownership, most large independent studios aren't going to want to work on ips they don't own long-term. It literally defeats the purpose of being independent unless u have a bungie or respawn deal
Last issue you're at risk that the company may take on addiitional partnerships
Another issue is ip ownership, most large independent studios aren't going to want to work on ips they don't own long-term. It literally defeats the purpose of being independent unless u have a bungie or respawn deal
Last issue you're at risk that the company may take on addiitional partnerships
LiquidSolid
Member
Christ, dude. First, that wasn't ironic. Second, "non existent"?! Did you even read that rant you posted earlier? I'm not the one bringing up arguments from completely unrelated threads to criticise you. You did that. All I did was criticise a ridiculous statement you made.
And no, you don't get to argue that Microsoft and Sony's first party output is the same because it's your opinion most of Sony's games don't count. Again, that's completely absurd.
Yeah, they did the same thing with the Fable IP, licensing it to the former Lionhead devs at Flaming Fowl Studios. Hence why Fable Fortune is a thing even though it doesn't really have anything to do with Microsoft (outside of licensing it from them and Flaming Fowl porting it to XB1).
And I think Harebrained Schemes is licensing another old FASA property for their next game, aren't they?
I get you want them to make more smaller titles to boost their portfolio, but man, this idea can quickly backfire soooo bad.
Like dude, I just want another Fable RPG, not Fable KInect, Fable F2P, Fable Cards & especially not a Fable Shooter. Everybody would jump MS if they did that shit.
element
Member
MS pretty much has an open license for both UE4 and Unity. When ReCore was starting, UE4 wasn't that mature and could have been considered a risk. ReCore budget wasn't Halo size, but it also wasn't a 'budget' title either. All in, it wouldn't shock me if ReCore was $10m development only.
Don't forget that ReCore had four teams working on it, Armature Studio, Comcept, Asobo Studio and internal MS staff.
Say the game took 2 1/2 years with 30 people. That is $10m right there.
I only say that because the assets and work has largely been done on fable legends. It's not as if you are starting from scratch.